Ground Roll

[Pips]

Just rediscovering CFS2 after many years.

One of the things that annoys me is the excessive vibration in the take-off roll. Can't remember if there was a fix for this or not. Hope so. :)

[Tango_Romeo]

Just rediscovering CFS2 after many years.

One of the things that annoys me is the excessive vibration in the take-off roll. Can't remember if there was a fix for this or not. Hope so. :)

...that this is unique to specific aircraft configuration settings and not a function of the sim. However, there are differences between the 'smoothness' of runways, taxiways and plain grass within the sim. :ernae:

[pawport]

I went back to CFS's flying just few days ago and discovered just the same thing. Last night landing in a Corsair (hard model flying) engin torque made me spin whole circle at the and of the strip even with joy and rudder all in opposite way!

Think, I have to learn to fly again...:icon_lol:

[Dirtman]

I went back to CFS's flying just few days ago and discovered just the same thing. Last night landing in a Corsair (hard model flying) engin torque made me spin whole circle at the and of the strip even with joy and rudder all in opposite way!

Think, I have to learn to fly again...:icon_lol:

A) I think all the runways in CFS2 are either steel mesh mat or crushed coral. So they would be naturally rough.
- FS guys are probably accustomed to concrete surfaces. (logical deduction?)
- How does does it feel in FS to take off from a grass field in a small local strip? (test this theory?)

B) There is a "roll fix" available for CFS2 to counter the engine torque.

C) If using a "Logitech" stick; there is a design flaw. The "centering spring" often breaks causing excessive roll (usually to the left)

But before replacing it; got to the Logitech site & d/l the updated stick software & "recalibration tool"

D) Are you using "force feedback" sticks? (this would amplify the normal vibration)

E) CFS2 has some odd quirks when set on "hard"; try "easy" & see if you notice a difference.



Hope something here helps you guys.

:applause: :applause: :applause:
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[bearcat241]

Think, I have to learn to fly again...:icon_lol:


Good idea :icon_lol:....but in the meantime this will cure the torqued ground spin. By contact points settings in your aircraft.cfg file, your tail wheel is fully castoring which allows it to spin in 360 degrees, consequently making the plane do the same. You have to reduce this. Open the cfg in notepad and change the steer angle value in red to no more than 75 degrees...my standard is 65 for tight ground taxiing. BTW, the first three sets of the Point.X section are for the landing gear. Point.0 is always your center gear - nose or tailwheel.

[contact_points]
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
point.0=1, -16.80, 0.00, -3.35, 3200, 0, 0.40, 180.0, 0.30, 2.5, 0.90, 3.0, 3.0, 0, 0, 235
point.1=1, 1.40, -3.91, -6.65, 2200, 1, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 2, 0, 235
point.2=1, 1.40, 3.91, -6.65, 2200, 2, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 3, 0, 235
point.3=2, 0.00,-20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 5
point.4=2, 0.00, 20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 6
point.5=2, -16.25, 0.00, -1.66, 2400, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 9
point.6=2, 2.41, 0.00, -2.08, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4

[pawport]

From now on 65.0 works for me also :ernae:

I've tried landing on Hederson and finally didn't finish on a side. Even taxiing is smoother. This will be good for Bobhegf training missions i'm planing to take...

It's never too late.

Once more thanks

[pawport]

Thanks Dirtman.

As a matter of fact I use MS Sidewinder force feedback, an old one .
ForceF doesn't work due to broken ACDC adapter and I think is the reason for many "malfunctions" during flights.
Example, poor engine control (not enough power), exegerated control surfaces movement and of course lack of center point which very difficults the trimming.

Engine torque is a real challenge, especially during take offs and landings but usefull during flight and combat. "Roll fix", seems to me, deals with damage effects on airplane caused by flak or enemy fire. I didn't found any that deals with torque. But even if i did wouldn't like to mess with it.
Its just like a roughness of the strips... makes me gentle at landings.. or trying to be:icon_lol:.




Seems like a good time to buy new Joy don't you think?

[Tango_Romeo]

....Bearcat gave you the tailwheel fix for your spinout/groundloop problem. :d

[bobhegf]

Pawport if you need help with them let me know.

[pawport]

Thanks Bobhegf, will surely do... :icon_lol:

[Pips]

Open the cfg in notepad and change the steer angle value in red to no more than 75 degrees...my standard is 65 for tight ground taxiing. BTW, the first three sets of the Point.X section are for the landing gear. Point.0 is always your center gear - nose or tailwheel.

[contact_points]
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
point.0=1, -16.80, 0.00, -3.35, 3200, 0, 0.40, 180.0, 0.30, 2.5, 0.90, 3.0, 3.0, 0, 0, 235
point.1=1, 1.40, -3.91, -6.65, 2200, 1, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 2, 0, 235
point.2=1, 1.40, 3.91, -6.65, 2200, 2, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 3, 0, 235
point.3=2, 0.00,-20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 5
point.4=2, 0.00, 20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 6
point.5=2, -16.25, 0.00, -1.66, 2400, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 9
point.6=2, 2.41, 0.00, -2.08, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4

How odd. :isadizzy: I opened my CGF file and it doesn't have any of the above entries. Or am I supposed to just copy and past the above? Cheers :)

[Tango_Romeo]

....it has to have at least this section under [Contact Points]. Look again...in the Aircraft.CFG file:

point.0=1, -16.80, 0.00, -3.35, 3200, 0, 0.40, 180.0, 0.30, 2.5, 0.90, 3.0, 3.0, 0, 0, 235
point.1=1, 1.40, -3.91, -6.65, 2200, 1, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 2, 0, 235
point.2=1, 1.40, 3.91, -6.65, 2200, 2, 1.13, 0.0, 0.45, 2.5, 0.83, 4.5, 4.5, 3, 0, 235
point.3=2, 0.00,-20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 5
point.4=2, 0.00, 20.00, -1.25, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 6
point.5=2, -16.25, 0.00, -1.66, 2400, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 9
point.6=2, 2.41, 0.00, -2.08, 1200, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4

AND, no you can't copy and paste this entry into your CFG. Each aircraft has it's own contact points. :wavey:

[Pips]

Got it, thanks Tango. I see now that folks were referring to the individual aircraft CFG file, whereas I was looking at the CFD file in tha main folder.

So for each aircraft that I want to alter (regarding the tailwheel) I have to make the change in each aircraft folder. Correct? :kilroy:

[Dirtman]

Thanks Dirtman.

Seems like a good time to buy new Joy don't you think?

Roger That PawPort;

It's always a good day to buy a new toy!! :applause:
( just tell the wife ya need a new input device fer the computer ASAP)

I tried the force-feedback thing; but it got old real quick. Boring & uncomfortable. Plus your framerates will take a beating too.

Personally I like the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - 3 axis control - 12 programmable buttons & very reasonably priced. ... no a/c adapter - USB powered.

Have a look: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/joysticks/devices/291&cl=US,EN

The included: "Profiler" software allows a variety set-ups for different games.

The price is too good to be true ..
http://www.pricebat.ca/Logitech-Extreme-3D-Pro-Twist-Handle-JOYSTICKUSB-Windows-or-Mac.p_119614/

So what are ya waitin fer???

:running: :running: :running:
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[bearcat241]

....So for each aircraft that I want to alter (regarding the tailwheel) I have to make the change in each aircraft folder. Correct? :kilroy:

Affirmative...

[pawport]

Well Dirtman,...

There are 2 things that will happend:

1- Christma will come sooner
2- My wife will hate me... but i will blame you...:d

Personally I do preffer Truthmaster instead of Logitech, but I'll try it with my friend in shop how it works. Will keep in touch.

BTW it could be a good topic on SOH. Who use what? Probabely, it was done many times over a years, but anyway worth to try again.
Cheers

[Pips]

Have just been re-reading this thread, and I think folks may have misunderstood me. I should have labelled this thread 'ground vibration'. It's the vibration level whilst taxiing and taking-off that annoys me. That's what I want to reduce.

Are the values Bearcat posted to do with this? Or is it something else?

Cheers. :)

[bearcat241]

Pips, if you open your CFS2.cfg file (in the main directory) with notepad, you'll scroll down and find something like this:

[CONTROLS]
force_master_gain=10000
force_stick_force_enabled=1
force_stick_shaker_enabled=1
force_gear_bump_enabled=1
force_crash_enabled=1
force_ground_bumps_enabled=1
force_machinegun_enabled=1
force_bulletdamage_enabled=1
force_rocket_enabled=1
force_bomb_enabled=1
force_flak_enabled=1
PAN_RATE=999
force_master_enabled=1

You can either turn off the ground bumps by changing the value to '0'. You can also reduce the overall feedback gain by changing the force_master_gain=10000 to a lower value, but keep in mind this will affect all the entries above, not just ground bumps.

[Pips]

Thanks muchly Bearcat. :)

Just as a by the by, if the value for ground_bumps_enabled is either 0 or 1, how is it that some aircraft vibrate so much more than others when travelling over the ground?

[OBIO]

Pips

With each individual aircraft.cfg file, there is also a section for Force Feed Back. On some models, this section is not present, so there will be no force feed back. On others, the modeler may have given the plane some pretty severe force feed back settings.

Here is a copy of the Force Feed Back section from the freeware Alphasim RA-5C.

[forcefeedback]
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_left_direction=35500
gear_bump_left_duration=250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_right_direction=00500
gear_bump_right_duration=250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1=3250
ground_bumps_angle1=8900
ground_bumps_intercept1=5.0
ground_bumps_slope1=0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2=750
ground_bumps_angle2=9100
ground_bumps_intercept2=0.075
ground_bumps_slope2=1.0
crash_magnitude1=10000
crash_direction1=01000
crash_magnitude2=10000
crash_direction2=9000
crash_period2=75000
crash_duration2=2500000

Now, I have no idea what any of this means as I don't use a force feed back stick. But surely someone can guide you in adjusting the force feed back levels on individual aircraft.

OBIO

[bearcat241]

With each individual aircraft.cfg file, there is also a section for Force Feed Back.

Errr...not the exactly...this section is an FS design feature created by Airwrench only, not provided in older native CFS2 cfg's done with other tools. Its purpose is to fine tune the FFB settings for the individual a/c. I didn't include this info in my post because its more complex, deals with individual a/c and my reply was simpler to act on as a universal solution, which i felt Pip was asking for, rather than an individual a/c solution.



On some models, this section is not present, so there will be no force feed back.

Again, not the case Obio...if you have FFB activated in the sim's settings and you have a FFB controller, the sim will use its own defo settings buried somewhere in its hardware controls, while adjusting the magnitudes according to the master gain setting in the cfg.

[bobhegf]

Pips, I use FSSC and insert an invisible runway which smooths out everything.I make the runway large enough to cover the total area.