For real : Alphasim c-17 is out

[Lenny]

see frontpage Alphasim

Edit: Ok, was an little bit to overwhelming : this version (V1.0) does not include the VC yet, but will be added in the 1.1 update shortly.

[Smudge]

OOOO, nearly $60.00 USD and no VC yet... urggghhh, to rich for my tastes... I think I'll wait and see what 1.1 looks like first.. even though I've been waiting for this for a while. :ernae:

Congrats A.S. for releasing her though.. :wavey: It looks GOOD, and I'm sure it'd go down GREAT with FSPassengersX! lol

[bushpilot]

"Demand for this awesome model was so strong that we decided we should not make our customers wait any longer, so we are releasing the finished exterior model package right now..."

"... So 1-2 months should be enough to see the release of version 1.1"


LOL. My own "demand" was actually to buy the whole package finished with VC and with all the bells and whistles. 1-2 months is a bit too long time to spend just staring the exterior model.

[Smudge]

Aye, not sure if a 2D is shipped at this stage either...nothign about that on the front page... :)

[Quixoticish]

Call me a cynic but I'll wait until they release a version with a VC before parting with £36.50. I hope for that price it also has a fair amount of systems modelling.

[Smudge]

Me too... give me an FMC and an order of fries please.. :D hehe...

[calypsos]

You have got to be 'having a laugh' Alphasim, how about Boeing releasing the 787 Dreamliner to the launch customer..without seats! Or Ford releasing a new car model with wheels!!

This sounds like 'cashflow meltdown' to me and I hope will not see the end of one of my favourite add-on developers of the past 10 years!

[jeansy]

good old alphasim, theyre top notch when they think of the customer

i guess this move could have them being nominated for the darwin awards

[Kavehpd]

More than three times the price of A2A Piper Cub, €25 more than Albatros...for a half arsed aircraft. EDIT: misread AUD for EURO.

I've been waiting for this bird since ages ago. But now with this BS, they can keep to themselves for as long as they desire, thank you very much.

Back to hibernation mode... :sleep:

[noddy]

Guess AS can't win either way, release it now or wait even longer and get pressure 'cos it's not ready!

[Ferry_vO]

More than three times the price of A2A Piper Cub, €25 more than Albatros

?? It's twice the price of the A2A Cub for me, and only three Euro's more if I get the Accu-sim for the Cub too, and less than two Euro's more than the Albatros (assuming you mean the L-39, not the HU-16), thanks to the VAT we Europeans have to pay..
The exterior model is the best rendition of a C-17 I have seen so far, but I'll wait until the VC is added before I make a decision. If they can deliver what they've promised it should be a relative bargain compared to other airliners with a high degree of functionality. Compare the price to a PMDG or a full pack of Captain Sim models!

IMHO no need for rude comments on this one gents! AS get to decide their own business strategy, and we all get to decide what to do with our own money. There's no need to buy anything if you do not want to!
There are a few freeware models around that may or may not work in FsX, and I believe UKMil is working on a VC for their freeware model..?

[Kavehpd]

?? It's twice the price of the A2A Cub for me, and only three Euro's more if I get the Accu-sim for the Cub too, and less than two Euro's more than the Albatros (assuming you mean the L-39, not the HU-16), thanks to the VAT we Europeans have to pay..
The exterior model is the best rendition of a C-17 I have seen so far, but I'll wait until the VC is added before I make a decision. If they can deliver what they've promised it should be a relative bargain compared to other airliners with a high degree of functionality. Compare the price to a PMDG or a full pack of Captain Sim models!

IMHO no need for rude comments on this one gents! AS get to decide their own business strategy, and we all get to decide what to do with our own money. There's no need to buy anything if you do not want to!
There are a few freeware models around that may or may not work in FsX, and I believe UKMil is working on a VC for their freeware model..?

Aaah, I misread the AUD price tag, next to Euro (66.5). Sorry about that.

Still, I personally would not pay until I see the final product. C-17 has been on my list for a very very long time. This release does not change anything.

[Pepere]

Is this a true FSX so I could stick a 747 VC in it? I won't buy it at that price without seeing complete package anyway. Should be 1/2 that without VC and pay more when VC is available - do we get a refund if you don't finish the VC NO! Or it takes another two years to complete NO! You need a marking consultant big time.

My $0.02 for what it's worth.

David

[gera]

No VC!!!!...No Buy-e!!!!!!!!!...no way-e....................like some general said sometime ago "Nuts"!!!!:sleep::sleep::sleep:

[gajit]

Guess AS can't win either way, release it now or wait even longer and get pressure 'cos it's not ready!

I try to resist bashing AS - but they definately wont win doing it this way.

[JIMJAM]

:toilet:

In 1-2 months there might not be a economy.
Someone has big ol hanging hairy bal** to stoop to this old CS ploy.
Freakin hillarious.
Ive spent tons of money with the old Alphasim so I do not consider it bashing.

[forgeknight]

Wow, I think for $60 bucks I want a bit more then a shiny outside and opening doors. To many developers have pushed the bar higher to settle for lower at this point. And I was under the impression this was a flight sim community, how many of us spend our time flying from the outside? An aircraft with out a VC is just not acceptable for payware, sorry AS but this kind of activity makes a person ask questions....

[dhl1986]

I will be passing on this one. $60 for an external model is a complete joke.

[Lateral-G]

:toilet:
Ive spent tons of money with the old Alphasim so I do not consider it bashing.

I have too. I used to be a big fan of AS but within the past year and a half nothing they have really trips my trigger and their pricing is pushing me further away.

I want a good C-17 in FSX but I prefer to buy a complete package without having to wait for incremental releases. Same reason I'm not getting the CS 727. Until the package includes a VC I won't buy anything. Plus at the price they are asking I also want correctly modeled systems (like A2A, Aerosoft, Lotus or IRIS does). It seems some of these other design houses can release a good visual model along with systems modeling for a better price.........

I'm not bashing AS and Phil is going to do what Phil wants to do....always has and always will. But I will make damn sure for $60 it's worth it before I buy from AS...

-G-

[piperarcherpilot]

Yikes.

They state on their website that development costs were unusually high and they unfortunately had to pass this on to the customer. I do understand this, its just got to be disappointing to be AS staff and read this thread. And it worries me to see pricing increasing like this across the board. A year from now, will the average add-on cost $100? The model itself does look pretty nice, thats for sure! And I bet the jet overall is going to be a very nice add-on when its all finished...however (and unfortunately), I too am not going to be buying it. I've been following the project since it was announced and think the C-17 is an amazing aircraft thats sorely needed in the FSX world, but I just cannot justify an unfinished aircraft for that price tag. Maybe not even when it is finished - they're going to really have to sell this one to me. Hmm...

[Txmmy83]

final version would be a must purchase product but at the moment it is not!

I wait for the finished version!


BR
Tom
Long term Alphasim Customer

[UKMIL]

well the UKMIL one HAS a VC and is out now too, although only to CLUB MEMBERS for BETA testing. it will be freely available very soon tho:ernae:

[BS-CAT]

well the UKMIL one HAS a VC and is out now too, although only to CLUB MEMBERS for BETA testing. it will be freely available very soon tho:ernae:
I'm waiting for the free version... :applause:

[polygoon]

A year from now, will the average add-on cost $100?I think you opened up a very interesting question here.

I remember buying CD's from the VIP Group with dozens of aircraft on them for FS 98. The wheels were octagons and the landing gear popped in or out and had no wells, the flaps were not yet animated, neither were the control surfaces, and the canopies were still opaque and no doors were there to open.
At that time no one even knew what a vc is.
I remember a comment on the Hercules that was included in that package, that it took over 100 hours to put that thing together.

If we fast forward to today - 100 hours is just enough to model, animate and texture the landing gear!

Customer demand is driving the developers to try harder and harder, there are guys out there now who visit airports to get into cockpits of airplanes armed with a ruler to measure every button in the cockpit.
The time that is necessary to put an aircraft together for FS these days is absolutely insane and it will only get worse.
Buying the Hercules package from a well known developer today will already set you back about $150.00, never mind $100.00 a year from now.

Any FS add-on today has to be an absolute work of art before people even want to look at it. Every screw has to be painted, and in the vc even modeled, man I tell you, this is getting absolutely nuts.

Back in the days of FS 98 it took one guy over 100 hours (2 work weeks) to churn out a state-of the art FS model, now it takes a team of six to eight guys half a year, that's an increase in terms of man-hours of 140 to 1

But, as you are all aware, the price of add-ons has not risen 140 times. That gives you an idea who has to swallow that difference in work versus income. It is certainly not the customer.
Even if the price goes up five times (lets say from $20 in FS98 days to $100 today), the developers work 28 times harder for every buck than they did in the good old FS98 days (if my math is right...:redf: ).

Now, that's for a model that costs $100.
But as you will have noticed, the C-17 does not cost $100.

I let you figure out, how much less the developers get per buck in this case...

So, my point is - even if you don't feel like buying the C-17 right now, at least be easy on the guys at Alpha.

[Henry]

my point is - even if you don't feel like buying the C-17 right now, at least be easy on the guys at Alpha.
I agree with that statement
H

[fsafranek]

I let you figure out, how much less the developers get per buck in this case...

You are absolutely right. We could make more money sewing t-shirts in Thailand.
:ernae:

[gajit]

Any FS add-on today has to be an absolute work of art before people even want to look at it. Every screw has to be painted, and in the vc even modeled, man I tell you, this is getting absolutely nuts.



Im sorry Polygoon - but this is about simulation so i do expect as much as possible to be "simulated" with some reasonable accuracy. If I dident I would "play" other flying "games" that did not have that emphasis.

Of course our expectations are higher - just as well or we would all be still flying about in FS8.

[gajit]

You are absolutely right. We could make more money sewing t-shirts in Thailand.
:ernae:

Hi Frank - So if its not about money - why do it? Is it for the creative process and the satisfaction that should bring?

[Kiwikat]

Back in the days of FS 98 it took one guy over 100 hours (2 work weeks) to churn out a state-of the art FS model, now it takes a team of six to eight guys half a year, that's an increase in terms of man-hours of 140 to 1

But, as you are all aware, the price of add-ons has not risen 140 times. That gives you an idea who has to swallow that difference in work versus income. It is certainly not the customer.
Even if the price goes up five times (lets say from $20 in FS98 days to $100 today), the developers work 28 times harder for every buck than they did in the good old FS98 days (if my math is right...:redf: ).

I don't find that to be a valid comparison here. There are many things in the real world that haven't increased in price, but they have definitely increased in quality. Take a look at the machine you used to type your message on. Take a look at the machine you used to type your first ever message on. You probably paid a similar amount if not MORE for the earlier machine.

Development times may be increasing, but talent is as well. If you couple that talent with good workflow and a workstation that can keep up, a lot of work can be done in a short amount of time. A good modeler can put together a top notch external model in a week or so. Of course now we have more complex things like VC's, 3D gauges, and more textures to do that we didn't previously need. I'd venture to guess a modern-day hit addon sells more than something back from FS98 too... maybe not "140 times" more, but you get the point.

Back on topic though... I'm very disappointed in what's happened to the C-17. I first joined the Alphasim beta team to test it, and I'm not at all impressed by what has come from it in the last 2 years. It is a terrible idea for any developer to release a product that is not finished. Especially when it is one that is as highly anticipated as this. :blind:

[shaunthesheep]

Interesting point you make there Kiwikat. But I reckon it would take more than a 21 year old Firebug Studio Beta Tester with little REAL work experience to make it.

[michael davies]

Hi Frank - So if its not about money - why do it? Is it for the creative process and the satisfaction that should bring?

I've no idea, we must be crazy LOL.

Regarding the C-17 stratergy.......I'm sure it'll become clear in the future :isadizzy:

Best

Michael

[Kiwikat]

Interesting point you make there Kiwikat. But I reckon it would take more than a 21 year old Firebug Studio Beta Tester with little REAL work experience to make it.

Yes. That's why I am a tester. I do what I can to help. If I knew how to model and code flightsim stuff, I'd be doing it! :kilroy:

[centuryseries]

A good modeler can put together a top notch external model in a week or so.

One week? You're having a laugh aren't you?!! :jump:

I thought there was the "unwritten rule" of not bashing other developers?

It's okay when it suits some! :isadizzy:

Frank, about that Sewing business in Thailand, you got any vacancies?

[Kiwikat]

I thought there was the "unwritten rule" of not bashing other developers?

You guys simply LOVE interpreting things that way. You really need to stop putting words in my mouth. :blind:

Absolutely nowhere did I specify ANYBODY in particular. Read what I said, not what you want it to say.

[fsafranek]

Hi Frank - So if its not about money - why do it? Is it for the creative process and the satisfaction that should bring?
Speaking only for myelf I would have to say it is because my background is in quality assurance and being involved with the development side of a project I can try to influence that quality. And because I have too many titles still in the catalog to just walk away from it all. So it is about the money a little. But mostly because I like being really close to ground zero of a creative endeavor. Not sure it that makes any sense? Pretty much what you said I think.
:ernae:

[Mickey D]

One week? You're having a laugh aren't you?!! :jump:

I thought there was the "unwritten rule" of not bashing other developers?

It's okay when it suits some! :isadizzy:

Frank, about that Sewing business in Thailand, you got any vacancies?

We've got some sweat shops Oop North that pay more than developing models Century Series. I can put you in touch?

[centuryseries]

You guys simply LOVE interpreting things that way. You really need to stop putting words in my mouth. :blind:

Absolutely nowhere did I specify ANYBODY in particular. Read what I said, not what you want it to say.

"I'm not at all impressed by what has come from it in the last 2 years. It is a terrible idea for any developer to release a product that is not finished."

I rest my case your honour.

End of arguement I haven't got time I got to get my model finished in a week. (subtle British humour there).

Move on eh :ernae:

[centuryseries]

We've got some sweat shops Oop North that pay more than developing models Century Series. I can put you in touch?

It's enough to pay for half a round of drinks for two people :ernae:

[Lateral-G]

I think you opened up a very interesting question here.

I remember buying CD's from the VIP Group with dozens of aircraft on them for FS 98. The wheels were octagons and the landing gear popped in or out and had no wells, the flaps were not yet animated, neither were the control surfaces, and the canopies were still opaque and no doors were there to open.
At that time no one even knew what a vc is.
I remember a comment on the Hercules that was included in that package, that it took over 100 hours to put that thing together.

If we fast forward to today - 100 hours is just enough to model, animate and texture the landing gear!

Customer demand is driving the developers to try harder and harder, there are guys out there now who visit airports to get into cockpits of airplanes armed with a ruler to measure every button in the cockpit.
The time that is necessary to put an aircraft together for FS these days is absolutely insane and it will only get worse.
Buying the Hercules package from a well known developer today will already set you back about $150.00, never mind $100.00 a year from now.

Any FS add-on today has to be an absolute work of art before people even want to look at it. Every screw has to be painted, and in the vc even modeled, man I tell you, this is getting absolutely nuts.

Back in the days of FS 98 it took one guy over 100 hours (2 work weeks) to churn out a state-of the art FS model, now it takes a team of six to eight guys half a year, that's an increase in terms of man-hours of 140 to 1

But, as you are all aware, the price of add-ons has not risen 140 times. That gives you an idea who has to swallow that difference in work versus income. It is certainly not the customer.
Even if the price goes up five times (lets say from $20 in FS98 days to $100 today), the developers work 28 times harder for every buck than they did in the good old FS98 days (if my math is right...:redf: ).

Now, that's for a model that costs $100.
But as you will have noticed, the C-17 does not cost $100.

I let you figure out, how much less the developers get per buck in this case...

So, my point is - even if you don't feel like buying the C-17 right now, at least be easy on the guys at Alpha.

I can't say I agree with your logic.

Yes, we demand and expect more because that's what we've been accustomed to over the past few years.

Other developers are able to bring a superior product to market and still be able to keep the price down (and not whine about it). This is what a market driven economy does. By your logic price increases should be commensurate with the level of complexity; then we should be paying 4 to 5x's more for the very PC's we use or for the game software installed on them. How many copies of FSX would MS sell at $150 a pop?

If a developer feels he only way to recoup their investment is by passing it on to the consumer then they will be shortly out of business. Because I guarantee you there WILL be another developer out there that will work to keep the costs down so they can sell a product. That's how it works in the world. You, as a developer/manufacturer, learn to work smarter, faster, more efficiently to keep up.

This has been discussed ad-infinitum before but there is a price point at which people just won't buy an add-on for the flight sim. Sure there will be a few that buy but not enough to support continued sales or demand for future products. AS seems to keep pushing the envelope on this (last time was with their A-6 Intruder).

Please don't construe that I'm bashing AS. They are free to charge whatever price they feel is warranted. I, as a consumer, am allowed to voice my opinion (such as I would if it were any other product manufacturer) and choose whether to buy or not to buy.

If, as you predict, add-on aircraft reach $150 or more per add-on then I cannot see much of a future for that particular aspect of the hobby. IMO that is just too much to justify spending on a casual pastime. Others may feel differently with regard to their disposable income but I fear they are a small minority.

-G-

[fsafranek]

It's enough to pay for half a round of drinks for two people :ernae:
Just give me a glass to cry in. :icon_lol:

:guinness:

[michael davies]

It's enough to pay for half a round of drinks for two people :ernae:

I've found washing cars on a Sunday is more lucrative :), looks like I'll be doing extra after today :isadizzy:.

Best

Michael

[gajit]

Speaking only for myelf I would have to say it is because my background is in quality assurance and being involved with the development side of a project I can try to influence that quality. And because I have too many titles still in the catalog to just walk away from it all. So it is about the money a little. But mostly because I like being really close to ground zero of a creative endeavor. Not sure it that makes any sense? Pretty much what you said I think.
:ernae:

Hi Frank

You have always made perfect sense to me and you know I admire your detirmination to get things as good as possible.

Keep up the good work.

[GrinningJester]

It is perfectly possible to build a proper 3D exterior mesh of an aircraft in a week- sans textures, animations and the interior...

[JensOle]

A model without a VC is a no go for me these days. Sad as I work on the real bird.

And they got the NATO Heavy Airlift Wing scheme wrong. SAC01 and SAC02 are currently at the Wing here at Pápa AB in Hungary and pictures are easily available.

[Prowler1111]

...don´t you all guys love Alphasim related threads??......

Prowler

[fsafranek]

...don´t you all guys love Alphasim related threads??......

Prowler
Not really. They all end up the same. If it ain't one thing it's another.

[Prowler1111]

Not really. They all end up the same. If it ain't one thing it's another.

Exactly!..i was looking for the sarcasm smilie.

Prowler

[fsafranek]

Exactly!..i was looking for the sarcasm smilie.

Prowler

:icon_lol: Guess I'm distracted. My website is down for some reason. :banghead:

[MudMarine]

$58 bucks US........and no VC?!:isadizzy: Putting it someplace where the sun don't shine......priceless!!:icon_lol: Sorry, just can't take anymore of these INSANE freaking prices!

[kilo delta]

:engel016::monkies:

[ryanbatc]

Ok. Pet peeve of mine. If you're going to take screenshots of your product PLEASE make sure you have AA turned on. Those jaggies make me less interested in the product.

Other than that the exterior model looks decent. Except the engine nacelles which look poorly modeled because you can actually see the vertices (ie the engines aren't smoothly modeled or round)

And then you have the fact that there is no VC at the moment. If they promise it will come within a year, I might go for it. But if its going to turn into one of those "it should be here in a few months......"

No thanks....the DA Fokker was to have a VC and I don't see one yet.

And finally 60 bucks. I can buy the F1 Mustang (already have it) for 55 bucks USD and it comes with a VC and incredible G1000 simulation. Or the PMDG J41 for even less....

30$ would be better for this thing unless they can absolutely deliver on the VC within the short time specified.

AND EDIT: How is this off topic? I'm right on the topic, "Alphasim c-17 is out"

[Kiwikat]

AND EDIT: How is this off topic? I'm right on the topic, "Alphasim c-17 is out"

I believe he was talking about all of the alphasim and/or ex-alphasim developers commenting on my post. (and perhaps my post and the post that I responded to)

Lets drag er back on topic now.

[gajit]

Any producer who would launch a product this way would get moaned at. I fail to see why anyone is surprised at the reaction.

[kilo delta]

AND EDIT: How is this off topic? I'm right on the topic, "Alphasim c-17 is out"

Because it turned into YAABT* soon after the OP posted the thread. Has anyone bought this yet? Is it a good model? How are the flight dynamics? Does it come with decent sounds?
Granted, the price is steep considering it doesn't have a vc yet...but that's up to the developer to set and it's our choice to pay up for it...or not. The original fsx'd CS 727 seemed to sell well enough without a vc.



*Yet Another Alphasim Bashing Thread


:engel016::ernae:

[piperarcherpilot]

Please don't construe that I'm bashing AS. They are free to charge whatever price they feel is warranted. I, as a consumer, am allowed to voice my opinion (such as I would if it were any other product manufacturer) and choose whether to buy or not to buy.

If, as you predict, add-on aircraft reach $150 or more per add-on then I cannot see much of a future for that particular aspect of the hobby. IMO that is just too much to justify spending on a casual pastime. Others may feel differently with regard to their disposable income but I fear they are a small minority.
I agree with this completely! :) I completely understand the complexity and expectations of today's addons has skyrocketed. Just so its clear, I'm not 'bashing' AlphaSim either; I dont know why anyone would do that. They're free to do business as they like. They're not the power company; we're not forced to buy their product at the price they set.

However, I find it very unsettling<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cadv-ws%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_file list.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> to see the ever increasing price of FSX addons, and hope it will subside as the economic (fingers crossed) conditions begin to improve. We wouldnt be having this conversation if the price wasnt unsettling to others, too.

There is a threshold that the average 'flightsim hobbiest' is willing to pay for an addon (with a few individuals being the exception, as always) and I think we may be approaching that threshold. And thats a very bad thing for this hobby - at least payware.

So the real concern should be - what, if anything, can developers do differently to adapt to this bloating time commitment, retain quality, and keep costs reasonable for the consumer? Not an easy one...

[ColoKent]

...in business. Apparently AS needed the money.

Kent

[UKMIL]

i find it hard to grasp that you pay as much for 1 addon, in this case, not completed, as we would pay for the entire FSX program. :icon_lol:

[centuryseries]

And then you have the fact that there is no VC at the moment. If they promise it will come within a year, I might go for it. But if its going to turn into one of those "it should be here in a few months......"

No thanks....the DA Fokker was to have a VC and I don't see one yet.


We have no reason to doubt that the VC will arrive soon. My understanding is that it's not too far from being finished.

It begs the question as to why any developer would work on the VC for that long only to give up? Exactly they wouldn't. Imagine the stick they'd get then - no dev would want to go through it!

Personally I think the modelling is first rate. If the engine nacelles were more rounded and smooth (which to be honest you don't notice unless you zoom right in) it would affect FPS on such a large type, minimising the number of polys used and using modelling techniques that show off detail yet reduce draw calls is the name of the game.

[centuryseries]

i find it hard to grasp that you pay as much for 1 addon, in this case, not completed, as we would pay for the entire FSX program. :icon_lol:

Oh here we go again :icon_lol: - how many times will this arguement reappear!

FSX sells tens of thousands (at least).

FS addon aircraft - you're lucky if you sell a thousand over a few years.

There's simply no comparison.

[Kiwikat]

Oh here we go again :icon_lol: - how many times will this arguement reappear!

FSX sells tens of thousands (at least).

FS addon aircraft - you're lucky if you sell a thousand over a few years.

There's simply no comparison.

Besides that, there are plenty addons that merit such high price tags. The PMDG MD-11 is one that immediately comes to mind.

[pierre]

A model without a VC is a no go for me these days. Sad as I work on the real bird.

And they got the NATO Heavy Airlift Wing scheme wrong. SAC01 and SAC02 are currently at the Wing here at Pápa AB in Hungary and pictures are easily available.

Hi Jens, the Nato SAC isn't release yet, so i can correct it for the 1.1 release, the pictures you are speaking weren't available when i do that scheme, it was like a semi-fictionnal one....

[djscoo]

Oh here we go again :icon_lol: - how many times will this arguement reappear!

FSX sells tens of thousands (at least).

FS addon aircraft - you're lucky if you sell a thousand over a few years.

There's simply no comparison.
Flight Sim and Train Sims are the only games I know of where charging more for the add-ons than you did for the game is considered acceptable. I was looking at Railworks!, a train simulator, and every add-on was released by the original developer, and each cost ~$50. If you look at other popular games, (Arma II, Team Fortress, Half-life/Counter-Strike) you'd see a very active add-on/modding community where nearly everything is distributed for free.

[centuryseries]

Flight Sim and Train Sims are the only games I know of where charging more for the add-ons than you did for the game is considered acceptable. I was looking at Railworks!, a train simulator, and every add-on was released by the original developer, and each cost ~$50. If you look at other popular games, (Arma II, Team Fortress, Half-life/Counter-Strike) you'd see a very active add-on/modding community where nearly everything is distributed for free.

Thats what makes flight sim unique.

Most of the mods I've seen for FPS games whether they're maps or objects have generally been worse than the original developers creations in some way, whereas with flight sim most of the addons we buy are better/more complicated than the original producers creations.

Take airfields as a good example. People that produce airfields for FS immediately improve on the originals, whereas a game like Half Life 2 or Crysis have building detail/Landscape mastered right out of the box.

[forgeknight]

This thread will go the same way the warbird p51 thread did. Consumers vs. Producers. Here is my thought as a consumer, if you put something out that I dont like, I wont buy it. And I have the right to say why and then express my reasons.
If you as a Producer have your feelings hurt, then you can A. Ignore my opinion B. correct the issue in the future C. Quit. But there are other producers out there who will step in to fill the void you leave, so pout about the amount of time you work, and how hard it is if you wish, but best start looking around, your not the only ones who work hard hours for little pay and it takes a bit of work if you wish to convince me, the consumer, that your product is worth my hard earned cash over your competitions.

[Ian Warren]

Not an issue , everyone has been hounding Alpha for a release , no hesitation here !
BOEINGS C17 Globemaster III <!--sizec--><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/1Large-70.jpg
Well a long plus years release and its still not finished
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2Large-70.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/3Large-68.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/4Large-66.jpg
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><!--/coloro-->Jeepers .. a test flight requires test colours <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/5Large-59.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/6Large-56.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/7Large-43.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/8Large-41.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/9Large-29.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/10Large-25.jpg
At $81NZ , quite steep for this model so far , so it will be interesting to see what the VC has to offer ! , the update of course will be free

www.<!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_8249662-->nzff.org

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[JIMJAM]

Looks great!
Tell you what. I will send 1/2 of my credit card number for the plane as it is. Then I will "update" the remaining numbers when the cockpit is completed.

[N2056]

Looks great!
Tell you what. I will send 1/2 of my credit card number for the plane as it is. Then I will "update" the remaining numbers when the cockpit is completed.

Classic! :icon_lol:

[gajit]

LOL :applause:

[ryanbatc]

Because it turned into YAABT* soon after the OP posted the thread. Has anyone bought this yet? Is it a good model? How are the flight dynamics? Does it come with decent sounds?

We don't know, it's too costly at the current pricepoint without a VC.

oops edit: apparently ian bought it

[Slug Flyer]

Too costly with a VC.

[Jetmechanic]

I will be passing on this one. $60 for an external model is a complete joke.

True that. $60 dollars is to much for me. I will be waiting for area51sim C-17. I know there C-5 is looking awesome.

[Bjoern]

Most of the mods I've seen for FPS games whether they're maps or objects have generally been worse than the original developers creations in some way, whereas with flight sim most of the addons we buy are better/more complicated than the original producers creations.

I hope you're kidding.

The quality range of mods for FSX is just as wide as the one for every other shooter/game out there. And in terms of complexity, mods like Forgotten Hope for Battlefield 1942 and that LotR total conversion for Rome:Total War are at least on par with stuff like PMDG's MD-11.

The reason we've got payware is mainly that we've got a target audience willing to pay for it in the first place. Aviation enthusiasts may be 10-100 years old, but the highest percentage is at least well into their 30s with a job and a credit card, while the modding community for other games has its focus mostly on my age group. An age group that's mostly busy studying and thus having no money to spend on virtual stuff (or they're not willing to).

A (weak) second reason for selling payware may be getting the money back in for reading materials and trips to museums for research. I still wonder though why this has to be justified with monetary compensation if making FSX add-ons is widely considered a labor of love and passion - just like every other hobby out there.

Anyways, I better stop now.

[Major_Spittle]

This thread will go the same way the warbird p51 thread did. Consumers vs. Producers. Here is my thought as a consumer, if you put something out that I dont like, I wont buy it. And I have the right to say why and then express my reasons.
If you as a Producer have your feelings hurt, then you can A. Ignore my opinion B. correct the issue in the future C. Quit. But there are other producers out there who will step in to fill the void you leave, so pout about the amount of time you work, and how hard it is if you wish, but best start looking around, your not the only ones who work hard hours for little pay and it takes a bit of work if you wish to convince me, the consumer, that your product is worth my hard earned cash over your competitions.

This is spot on and while I wish developers could get rich for their hard work these $60 add-ons for a $50 game are killing me. So many great products out there I would like to get but can't, thus developers lose out on getting my $$$ altogether. My "cheap" hobby now is more expensive than me getting back into RC flight if I get more than 3-4 of these $60 add-ons a year.

It sometimes seem like those who don't pirate the work are just the wipping posts for these companies. I find it hard to believe that if prices were lowered from $60 to $15 that companies wouldn't sell 4 times as many birds.

[Panther_99FS]

Remember folks...
The easiest & least controversial option is to wait until the V/C version is released & then make your assessment :)

[Pepere]

I find it hard to believe that if prices were lowered from $60 to $15 that companies wouldn't sell 4 times as many birds.


You get my vote. :icon29: :icon29: :icon29: Many addons i pass on for that reason too.

David

[anthony31]

Congratulations Alphasim. Marketing genius.

Most addons probably sell the most copies in the first few weeks after release. All those people desperate for something new to fly (reminds me, I still need to figure out how to fly my C130) rush to buy the latest and greatest and then rush to publish their opinions on the forums. By releasing a half finished version now and the final version in 1-2 months (timeframe according to alphasim) they effectively get to release their product twice and thus double the amount of free publicity they get. Pure genius :applause:.

[peter12213]

Is number 4 engine looking ok though from the alpha shots its looked different to the others!

[Smudge]

Guys,

I want to apologise if my original post started the trend that's continued for four pages. I wasn't bashing AS, or critisising their cost etc. In fact, I stated they'd done a good looking job and I was looking forward to seeing the completed model before I parted with my hard earned cash.

I've bought a number of Alphasim planes in the past, however I was merely pointing out that it was a bit pricey for my piggy bank at the moment.

I wasn't belittling their efforts and I look forward to seeing what happens over the next few months.

[Ian Warren]

Smudge , no complaints from me :icon_lol: , i figured she was pricey and looking forward to the completed model , i just had to compare the external model and its preformance in an airshow setting , i guess we are going to see some amazing screens in the future .. one type off plane doing things lessors would do .

[Ian Warren]

New powered up pc , had to check this thing in FS9 , best of both is what they do at Alphasim , their models everything the same as the X model http://nzff.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/1Large-71.jpg
I guess its a little quirky .. but this thing has more power that a Garlic Steak ! and not a Garlic Sausage , jezzz its slippery
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2Large-71.jpg
Maybe i,m simply just waisting fuel http://nzff.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/3Large-69.jpg
Time to Hanger this till me avionic.s guys give me some real controls http://nzff.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/4Large-67.jpg <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_8249674-->


--------------------
NZ & World Aviation & Naval History Buff , maybe a little scenery , maybe a little fly , <!--coloro:#FF0000--><!--/coloro-->burn me<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#FFA500--><!--/coloro-->tail feathers<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/NZFFBanner-2.jpg

[Shark]

I have a few AS products and am quite happy with the Blackhawk. I'd like to add the C-17 to the stable, but in this case I will be waiting for the VC. The exterior does look pretty good. The UKMIL looks promising as well.

[Kiwikat]

Time to Hanger this till me avionic.s guys give me some real controls

Even then, will we get anywhere near "real" controls? I doubt it...

I really hope someone can make a military cargo plane with proper avionics and systems modeling- realistic FMC et al.

[Ian Warren]

KIWI :icon_lol: CAT , I go to Alpha for the , well i need this ! :jump: if not for screens , just to look and play and the fun , CS for your aircraft systems on a Military transport and LD and PMDG for the airlines yes your right , I no Alpha fills the gap for many , you never no what could be around the corner , .. look how A2A approached the concept , FMC's um yes! , not Alphas forte , but a C17 in an airshow circuit wont use one 'a FMC' and this is were the fun begins :kilroy:
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[noddy]

Remember folks...
The easiest & least controversial option is to wait until the V/C version is released & then make your assessment :)

Well said.

By the shots posted so far, she looks a stunner.

[arrowmaker]

Remember folks...
The easiest & least controversial option is to wait until the V/C version is released & then make your assessment :)

100% agree with this. Personally I'll just wait until the VC version is out, then wait for the inevitable patch, and THEN take a serious look at buying the product. With so many excellent products currently on the market there really is no need to rush out and buy stuff as soon as it's released.

In the last couple of years I have only purchased one product that lacked a VC and that is the awesome Digital Aviation Fokker. No disrespect to the guys at AlphaSim but I just can't see the systems modelling coming anywhere close to the DA product. So for me to even consider a purchase it really will need to have a VC.

[centuryseries]

I hope you're kidding.

The quality range of mods for FSX is just as wide as the one for every other shooter/game out there. And in terms of complexity, mods like Forgotten Hope for Battlefield 1942 and that LotR total conversion for Rome:Total War are at least on par with stuff like PMDG's MD-11..

With due respect, that wasn't what I meant. I meant that MS gave us the basics, now its up to the addon makers (freeware or payware) to make it better. There is no other 'game' like FSX that covers the whole world. However it covers the whole world as best it can. The UK landmass is nothing like as "real as it gets", but payware scenery make it better and more detailed.

I'm not of course saying (being a fan of FPS games) that there are good addons for other types of game, I was trying to differentiate between them.

[centuryseries]

Even then, will we get anywhere near "real" controls? I doubt it...

What is the point in speculating on something you haven't seen yet? :isadizzy:

[Kiwikat]

What is the point in speculating on something you haven't seen yet? :isadizzy:

Please, please, please, prove me wrong then. Please! I want a realistic C-17 simulation! :ernae:

I'd even pay 60+ USD for one!

[Odie]

I've been waiting for this one for awhile so I'll wait for the whole package to come out. There's a few other birds in the hangar that I can aquaint myself with.

[Bjoern]

With due respect, that wasn't what I meant. I meant that MS gave us the basics, now its up to the addon makers (freeware or payware) to make it better. There is no other 'game' like FSX that covers the whole world. However it covers the whole world as best it can. The UK landmass is nothing like as "real as it gets", but payware scenery make it better and more detailed.

I'm not of course saying (being a fan of FPS games) that there are good addons for other types of game, I was trying to differentiate between them.

Fair enough.

It just came out a bit wrong in my eyes, but thanks for elaborating anyways. :)

[BOOM]

I've been looking forword to the C-17 for a long time,The price is a little higher than I'm willing to pay right now for an aircraft with no VC and I'd like to see what systems will be implemented.

I've waited a long time,I can wait alittle longer.

[centuryseries]

I've been looking forword to the C-17 for a long time,The price is a little higher than I'm willing to pay right now for an aircraft with no VC and I'd like to see what systems will be implemented.

I've waited a long time,I can wait alittle longer.

It will be worth the wait :ernae:

[JT8D-9A]

I'm glad that this project is still alive and i'm also waiting for the VC :mixedsmi:

[tigisfat]

Who knows how these things will turn out?

I payed for an entire state of photoscenery from a prominent developer. It was released early and at a discount because it was unfinished. Most of the airports didn't line up even a little. It was promised that it was released as a fundraiser to pay bills, and the updates to fix all of it's problems would be released.

I'm a year down the road, and it's never been finished. The developer told me they gave up on it, and they had more important projects to work on. I was also told that I was "welcome to edit the scenery myself" to make airports line up.

I'm out an appreciable sum of money with no updates ever to be offered. Again, I won't buy anything partially completed with promised updates ever again.

[centuryseries]

Who knows how these things will turn out?

I payed for an entire state of photoscenery from a prominent developer. It was released early and at a discount because it was unfinished. Most of the airports didn't line up even a little. It was promised that it was released as a fundraiser to pay bills, and the updates to fix all of it's problems would be released.

I'm a year down the road, and it's never been finished. The developer told me they gave up on it, and they had more important projects to work on. I was also told that I was "welcome to edit the scenery myself" to make airports line up.

I'm out an appreciable sum of money with no updates ever to be offered. Again, I won't buy anything partially completed with promised updates ever again.

No one is asking you to :ernae: if you want to wait, you're welcome to. The choice is yours! :wiggle:

[Mithrin]

Cool! I'm with panther though. I'll wait a bit. Then we'll see if I like it enough to spend the cash. Model also looks a bit old, not as smooth in some areas as I would have hoped but that's probably cuz it's also thrown into FS9.

[peter12213]

I have to say I couldn't wait any longer so I've taken the plunge with the FSX Alpha C-17 and even though Its needs a VC I'm terribly happy with it, the sounds are just excellent, the night lighting is very realistic around the refueling aperture and on the fuselage and the flight dynamics are spot on from what I've read and seen of this aircraft and it just looks awesome in my opinion. Heres some shots from in and around RAF Brize Norton, I must say guys if your wavering on whether this is good or not I have to say after buying it that I'm very happy. I personally never really fly heavies but this is just excellent and I'm glad I have taken the plunge and bought her even if it does cost a bomb!

Heres some pics!!
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2658/2009101223474843.png

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9551/20091012234811359.png

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2497/20091012234644265.png

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1807/20091012234118421.png

On these last pics I'm trying to show the fluorescent night lights, I've actually forgotten there true name oops!
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9018/20091012235025968.png

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5013/20091012234956531.png

Sorry I know its very dark but I hope this gives you an idea of what it looks like!
Regards Pete.

[Pepere]

If it is true FSX you should be able to install the default 747 VC into it?

David

[tigisfat]

I hope the systems modelling and VC are topnotch. The model and textures are nice, but not cutting edge enouhg to justify the price for me.

Can anyone sneak some VC WIP pics out of Phil's vault?

[BOOM]

Nice Peter!! Great Shots!! She is a Beaut!!:medals:

[peter12213]

Thanks BOOM, and yeah it is true fsx but I'm not putting the default 747 VC in it just yet I'm just waiting for V1.1 to be released, having just flown it again the flight dynamics as I said before are just spot on, its an absolute pleasure to fly very responsive!

[centuryseries]

Can anyone sneak some VC WIP pics out of Phil's vault?

If I was able to I'd be shot. But at this moment in time I have no current screenshots of the VC.

[Mithrin]

Well...this will be my final movie for AS and FSX in general but I'm glad Phil decided to have me do the C-17. I really like the model. It's super easy on frames and that's something I always appreciate. Eagerly awaiting the VC though as this thing is only half the fun without it.

http://www.mithrin.net/FS/alphasim/C17_01.jpg

http://www.mithrin.net/FS/alphasim/C17_02.jpg

http://www.mithrin.net/FS/alphasim/C17_03.jpg

[centuryseries]

Superb screenshots :ernae: