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Willy
August 28th, 2009, 12:39
The 75th Anniversary of the MacRobertson London to Melbourne race is coming up in October.

Any interest in a re-fly of it?

Right now the idea is two different classes. Golden Age (to be defined) and Modern.

RedGreen
August 28th, 2009, 14:54
The 75th Anniversary of the MacRobertson London to Melbourne race is coming up in October.

Any interest in a re-fly of it?

Right now the idea is two different classes. Golden Age (to be defined) and Modern.

You're darn tootin' I'm interested! :jump:

Highmike
August 28th, 2009, 15:28
Yeah! I could sure do some more racing this year. Maybe dust off my old Vega.

salt_air
August 29th, 2009, 05:28
Been waitin' for this one,,,,,dag-gone right Willy,,,,this sounds great!!

Dangerousdave26
August 29th, 2009, 11:18
Of course there is...

:icon29:

salt_air
August 29th, 2009, 13:58
Of course there is...

:icon29:


I say we fly the thing on one of dave's servers....:applause:

Willy
August 30th, 2009, 21:31
We've also got the MAPE server which is where I normally fly online.

Right now by Modern, we talking Modern GA.

salt_air
August 31st, 2009, 04:10
We've also got the MAPE server which is where I normally fly online.

Right now by Modern, we talking Modern GA.

Okay,,,sounds good Willy,,maybe fire up FSX for this one,,,we'll see. :icon29:

Spookster67
September 2nd, 2009, 03:14
This sounds like fun. I am interested...

teson1
September 2nd, 2009, 10:40
Definitely interested! :applause:
(Not sure whether I have the time though - this sounds like a lengthy trip, the real racers took >70 hrs of flying...)

Do you have a link to the previous MacRobertson races you have done so I can get an idea about the event? I searched, but didn't find anything.

Thanks,

Gunter

Moses03
September 2nd, 2009, 11:37
Definitely interested! :applause:

Do you have a link to the previous MacRobertson races you have done so I can get an idea about the event? I searched, but didn't find anything.


Unfortunately we lost all the previous Mac race stuff in the forum crashes. The rules and aircraft testing spreadsheets survived thanks to MM though.

teson1
September 2nd, 2009, 12:22
Unfortunately we lost all the previous Mac race stuff in the forum crashes.

Ouch... :blind:

RFields
September 2nd, 2009, 13:29
I don't want to post a copy of the previous rules - don't want to confuse anyone.

The basics are of course real world weather and RTW realism settings.

The start airport is Mildenhall - EGUN and the end is Essendon - YMEN

Mildenhall is where the race actually started. The location in Melborne used for the end of the race is not now an airport, may have never been. But it is unlandable in FS2004, FS2002 or FSX. YMEN is close.

This is a good overview of the original race - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacRobertson_Air_Race

There were five required stop - Baghdad (ORBS/ORBI), Allahabad (VIAL), Seletar (WSSL), Darwin (YPDN) and Charleville (YBCV) - the last four are the actual airports used in the race, or at least very near the same locations. The airport in Baghdad was close to the river and much smaller city than the FS2004/ FSX airport. In FS2004 the airport is Z15M, but it is not in FSX. You can see in Google Earth that Muthenna is a rail yard now.

There were 22 official fuel stops scattered along the route.

The last SOH race had to be in period specific aircraft, such as the DC-2/DC-3, Boeing 247, etc. You did not have to fly an aircraft which flew in the actual race, though I flew the Dragon Rapide and others flew the Lockheed Vega and Dh-88 from FS2004.

The last SOH race required the use of DR and NDB for navigation, no GPS, no VOR, no ILS - though ILS is really not an issue because most of the required airports do not have it and very, very few of the authorized fuel stops.

Since there were not pressurized aircraft at the time of the race, there was an altitude restriction. It did not impede the route in any way.

Those were the basics.

If you can average 225 kts ground speed - the base route is 43 3/4 hours flight time long and 9,832 miles.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=EGUN-LFPO-LIRA-LGAV-OSAP-ORBI-OIBB-OIZJ-OPKC-VIJO-VIAL-VECC-VYYY-WMKA-WSSL-WIHH-WADA-WATT-YPDN-YTNK-YCCY-YBCV-YNRM-YMEN%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=225&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

The actual routes will have to be longer due to several items. Only a few aircraft like the Vega and the Dh-88 can made the longest legs without fuel stops.

I believe these were all authorized fuel stops - http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=EGUN-LFPO-LIRA-LGAV-OSAP-ORBI-OIBB-OIZJ-OPKC-VIJO-VIAL-VECC-VYYY-VTBD-WMSA-WSSL-WIHH-WADA-WATT-YPDN-YTNK-YCCY-YBCV-YNRM-YMEN%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=225&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Note that some of the designators are different from FS2004 - especially in Indonesia.

RFields
September 2nd, 2009, 13:33
This is a MUST READ

http://www.avsim.com/hangar/flight/dc2uiver/race/Domenie_Diary_eng.htm

teson1
September 3rd, 2009, 02:51
Reggie,
thanks for the info.
Around 50 hrs - that's more manageable.
Love the DR/NDB only.
Gunter

RFields
September 3rd, 2009, 13:18
You'd be surprised how well you can follow rivers and roads in FS.

FYI, there are huge lakes northwest of Baghdad, follow them south southeast and take the left river down to the city of Baghdad.

Willy
September 3rd, 2009, 13:40
Yep, it sure helps to study the basic geography of the area you're flying to help guide you in. Following rivers and coastlines has helped me numerous times.

Highmike
September 3rd, 2009, 15:21
It's funny, before FSX I never used to fly around my home territory because when I looked out the window I knew it looked nothing like that. But in FSX I mostly fly around country I am familiar with because so much of it is recognisable, and with FTX my home town looks fantastic.

salt_air
September 3rd, 2009, 17:05
It's funny, before FSX I never used to fly around my home territory because when I looked out the window I knew it looked nothing like that. But in FSX I mostly fly around country I am familiar with because so much of it is recognisable, and with FTX my home town looks fantastic.


Awright,,,,what's FTX Highmike?

Highmike
September 3rd, 2009, 17:12
Flipping Terrific Examination of the country around where I live!

salt_air
September 4th, 2009, 03:46
Ahhh yeah,,,,,shoulda figured that one out....:icon_lol:

Highmike
September 4th, 2009, 04:22
Full Terrain Experience is an Aussie FSX land class add-on by the guys at Orbx.

http://www.fullterrain.com/freeware.html

salt_air
September 5th, 2009, 04:26
Yessa,,,definately a new bookmark here,,,,thanks! :wavey:

MaddogK
September 6th, 2009, 11:11
Hmmm, initially I wasn't interested but the more I think about it the more I want to try it- MY way. NO tubeliner for me, I'm taking a single engine bi-plane, perhaps a Waco CTO , Curtiss Jenny (range permitting) or a GeeBee. Anyone have a Fairey Fox for FS9 ??

...one question- are the 'official' fuel stops the only ones that we may refuel at ?

salt_air
September 6th, 2009, 15:48
Hmmm, initially I wasn't interested but the more I think about it the more I want to try it- MY way. NO tubeliner for me, I'm taking a single engine bi-plane, perhaps a Waco CTO , Curtiss Jenny (range permitting) or a GeeBee. Anyone have a Fairey Fox for FS9 ??

...one question- are the 'official' fuel stops the only ones that we may refuel at ?

Oh Boy MaddogK,

I tell you what, if you take a Jenny from London to Melbourne, you will be my FS hero!

What am I saying,,,,I might join you!.....:jump:

Regards,

MaddogK
September 6th, 2009, 19:27
Oh Boy MaddogK,

I tell you what, if you take a Jenny from London to Melbourne, you will be my FS hero!

What am I saying,,,,I might join you!.....:jump:

Regards,

:), Maybe a Jenny was a bad idea, but if you're game I'm sure I could find the couple months to take the Jenny. If the only fuel stops are the 'official' ones all the above are out. I would like to stay era correct tho'. My GeeBee is prepped but NO WAY it's making a 700 mile hop.

RFields
September 7th, 2009, 00:59
I flew the DH-89 Dragon Rapide in the last race, and it will not make that distance. I had to make some unauthorized fuel stops, but got to the finish. The longest distance I ever flew in the plane was a test run the 654 nm from Athens to Aleppo. It took 6 hrs 34 min and I arrives with barely 3 gallons fuel left in the tanks.

Edit - found my Duenna files - my DH-89 route was
EGUN-LOWL - 580 nm - 4 hr 42 min 49 sec
LOWL-LRBS - 541.6 nm - 4 hrs 28 min 56 sec - auth fuel stop
LRBS-LTAU - 548.8 nm - 4 hrs 51 min 41 sec
LTAU - ORBS - 537.1 nm - 4 hrs 31 min 07 sec - required stop
ORBS-OIYY - 514.4 nm - 4 hrs 09 min 37 sec
OIYY- N 31 09.509 / E 57 22.636 - 164.7 nm - 1 hr 34 min 17 sec - this was a dead stick landing in the desert of eastern Iran. I apparently shut off the magentos and did not get the engine restarted - did not refuel
N 31 09.509 / E 57 22.636 - OIZH - 208.6nm - 2 hrs 09 min 05 sec - after restarting and taking off had to stop short - the extra climb cost too much fuel
OIZH-OPMJ - 402.4 nm - 3 hrs 30 min 49 sec
OPMJ-VIJO - 270.5 nm - 2 hrs 07 min 14 sec - auth fuel stop
VIJO-VIAL - 472.4 nm - 4 hr 05 min 22 sec - required stop
VIAL-VECC - 404.5 nm - 3 hr 06 min 53 sec - auth fuel stop
VECC-VYYY - 553.7 nm - 4 hr 45 min 40 sec - auth fuel stop
VYYY-VTSF - 549.7 nm - 5 hrs 16 min 06 sec
VTSF-WSSL - 487.8 nm - 4 hrs 20 min 01 sec - required stop
WSSL-WIIH - 495.5 nm - 4 hrs 33 min 27 sec - auth fuel stop
WIIH-WRRA - 562.2 nm - 4 hrs 44 min 37 sec - auth fuel stop
WRRA-WRKK - 459.1 nm - 3 hrs 32 min 30 sec - auth fuel stop
WRKK-YPDN - 444.1 nm - 3 hrs 15 min 27 sec - required stop
YPDN-YTNK - 473.5 nm - 4 hrs 37 min 40 sec - auth fuel stop
YTNK-YCCY - 362.3 nm - 3 hrs 19 min 50 sec - auth fuel stop
YSSY-YBCV - 468.5 nm - 4 hrs 42 min 14 sec - required stop
YBCV-YNRM - 362.7 nm - 3 hrs 07 min 05 sec - auth fuel stop
YNRM-YMEN - 368.7 nm - 2 hrs 55 min 30 sec - finish

As I flew, I got much better at estimating fuel burn rates and my speed over the ground with wind conditions. That enabled me to build up my average ground speed. I made a practice run a month before the race - WRKK-YPDN which took 7 hr 35 min 33 sec in the maximum fuel saver mode. During the race I cut that time more than in half.

I flew the fartherst 'off course' route of anyone. Crossing Europe through Bucharest was an authorized option in the real race. My route was 2206 nm with two unauthorized fuel stops, vs the 2516 nm via the auth fuel stops, but with the 654 nm leg. Saving 300 nm made the penalty for the two unauth stops worthwile in a plane which averaged near 108 kts ground speed. But the unintentional landing in the Iran desert hurt me by causing a extra penalty stop.

salt_air
September 7th, 2009, 03:24
Reggie,

I remember when you mentioned having used the Dragon Rapide in the first race and thinking what an Epic journey that must have been. That fact never really hit "home" till just now after looking at your Duenna files.

Good Lord man, what a show! You must have been just as proud as you were relieved to have completed the race no matter what position you finished in.

I was sorry to have missed the first race and vowed to do the next, if there was one. This is just further inspiration. I really do like these events that take you back to another place in time and make you work them with what was available at that time. Not to mention all the "tid-bits" of pertinent history and side discussions that relate to what's happening sort of like a "wikipedia-on-the-fly"....:icon_lol:.

Thanks for sharin",

MaddogK
September 7th, 2009, 14:31
EGUN-LOWL - 580 nm is right at my limit.

:ernae:

buzzbee
September 7th, 2009, 14:47
That was what I can describe the last Mac-Roberts race as. The timing was perfect though as I was slogging through a lot of manual data entry for a restaurant POS Project I was working on. One one machine I had the Vega flying and on my other machine I was up to my elbows in PLU's. Every so often I would switch back and forth and keep track of the flight to take a break from trying to standardize PLU's.

Highmike - Was just thinking of you. Saw on the Avsim frontpage that FTX just released Tamworth. That and I heard Koop Kooper saying there is a station in Tamworth that broadcasts "The Cocktail Nation"

Might have to go get FS X now.

Cheers!

Willy
September 7th, 2009, 15:32
Gee Bee or Skymaster? decisions.... decisions...... ;)

Highmike
September 7th, 2009, 15:40
I'll have to get that Tamworth add-on when I've got the cash. I'm not sure if its just the airport or the whole town, I'll check it out now. Either way, I've heard a lot of Yankee guys envying us lucky Aussies - to have the whole continent rendered in such detail is terrific! :applause:

RFields
September 8th, 2009, 08:25
I did a custom repaint of the DH-89 in colors which showed in B&W screenshots as close to the original aircraft.

ZK-ACO did fly the original race. I'm not sure if my blue and light yellow scheme was close to the original aircraft, but looked close.

I updated the DH-89 by adding the Sperry autopilot from the Lockheed Vega. I don't know if the original aircraft had an AP, but I needed one, and that one was available at the time of the real race. I also added the dual needle RMI from the DC-3 and a ADF2 radio.

The dual RMI was actually less important than I had thought they would be on the actual route. After leaving Europe, I seldom had two ADF in range to get a two position fix until the coast of Australia.

One thing which I learned in preparing for the flights is that I had to stay on top of where I was flying. I could not walk away for an hour and come back and find my position easily.

A very, very useful thing was to have a second computer with FS, so I could check the map view, the NDB radios, etc while in flight. I also used Google Earth a lot. Most of my flights were off-line, but I never used FSNav either on or off line to check my position. That was cheating. But using FS on another computer as an expensive chart was cool.

I spend some anxious minutes comparing the shape of a lake on the flight computer screen with the map view on the other computer trying to decide if I was where I thought I was.

Another thing is that the vast majority of the flight was VFR in daytime, and I could see the ground. My hardest airport to located was VIJO which has an NDB. I made five attempts at landing before I finally saw the runway clear enough to actually land.

The longest unavoidable flight is from WRKK to YPDN. It was actually pretty easy because when you sight the Australia coast, it is not hard to know if you are east or west of Darwin.

All of the commentaries of the original race participants cite that leg to Darwin across the Timor Sea as their biggest worry. It was very unfriendly territory if you had to go down at sea. But on the scale of things, was really not terribly challenging.

Except that by the time they got to Australia, the teams in the race had pushed their engines and aircraft so hard that several were developing problems.

Remember 12 aircraft reached Melbourne, though three arrived after the end of the race, one four 1/2 months later.

Seven aircraft has mechanical problems or crashed. Two contestants died on one of those crashes.

Other than the political problems of crossing certain countries, I would not have a concern attempting the flight today in the real world in a Cessna C-172 or C-182 - provided I had a PPL.

The world was less a political challenge and more a survival challenge 75 years ago.

MaddogK
September 8th, 2009, 19:28
'Dual needle RMI' ?? NAV radios ? marker audio ?? The stock DC3 isn't exactly 'Golden age' except in appearance IMHO.

Google earth ??

LOL

Sorry, bad day.

Willy
September 8th, 2009, 19:53
The default DC-3 radio set with the dual needle RMI can be set to two adf frequencies at the same time.

I was asked about an analog wind drift gauge. The one I use is by Glen Copeland and is file name twidgau.zip (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=94085) at FlightSim.

RedGreen
September 9th, 2009, 03:25
Just a little something to build some interest....:jump:


wlVlRlCoBJ0

salt_air
September 9th, 2009, 04:41
Thanks Red,

Interest is building indeed!

Flew Roscoe Turner's plane in the Pan Am Race a while back. (talk about re dos),,,,didn't know he flew the Boeing 247D entry in this race.

[Thinking here,,,,noise sounds a little like hmmm]. Might have to keep with the same theme for this one.

Off to the library.......:running:

srgalahad
September 9th, 2009, 14:33
While not from the MacRobertson race, the video in the link below sort of sums up the mood
( admittedly, Maurice Kirk may be a bit 'odd' but then.....:icon_lol: )

http://kirkflyingvet.com/Default.aspx

Rob

RedGreen
September 9th, 2009, 16:09
Thanks Red,

Interest is building indeed!

Flew Roscoe Turner's plane in the Pan Am Race a while back. (talk about re dos),,,,didn't know he flew the Boeing 247D entry in this race.

[Thinking here,,,,noise sounds a little like hmmm]. Might have to keep with the same theme for this one.

Off to the library.......:running:

Hey now....I was looking at the 247D myself! (Although I was thinking United colors, perhaps.) :wiggle:

salt_air
September 10th, 2009, 03:23
Hey now....I was looking at the 247D myself! (Although I was thinking United colors, perhaps.) :wiggle:

Team effort on the horizon?.....

Was also looking at the "put some bloomin' hair on your chest deHaviland Comet"!!

Thoughts,

Willy
September 10th, 2009, 12:42
The QED will fly again. I'll save the Skymaster for something else.

srgalahad
September 11th, 2009, 17:21
http://www.great-air-race75.talktalk.net/G-ACSS34/Home_files/Great%20Air%20Race%2075th%20logo.jpg

http://www.great-air-race75.talktalk.net/G-ACSS34/Home.html

buzzbee
September 11th, 2009, 19:38
If I decide to take this on, I would choose to use Milton Shupe's Spartan. Great airplane that I learned about from MM during the last Macrobertson. A joy to fly.

Haitun
September 13th, 2009, 06:17
I'm in, but only if I have a stable internet connection.
Also, flying Jenny or Wimy, or Monocoupe or something like that is an interesting option.
Another interesting option is to fly Antonov An-2 (If it's not classic - it's still modern - there are some chinese examples still produced=))).

Willy
September 13th, 2009, 14:24
I think PZL in Poland still occasionally does a run of An-2s as well.

teson1
September 16th, 2009, 08:25
Team effort on the horizon?...

Austin,
I'm game for a team effort.
I think this is really too much all on my own.

Will fly anything. Just show me where the throttle is, and which way it's to Melbourne...

I'll try to participate to the FSMPA Radio Range event this sunday, we could talk there. Am having some friends over for the weekend, but will see if I can get them out of the house in time. :d

Gunter

salt_air
September 16th, 2009, 14:15
Austin,
I'm game for a team effort.
I think this is really too much all on my own.

Will fly anything. Just show me where the throttle is, and which way it's to Melbourne...

I'll try to participate to the FSMPA Radio Range event this sunday, we could talk there. Am having some friends over for the weekend, but will see if I can get them out of the house in time. :d

Gunter


Just got back from Kitty Hawk NC and I'm (re)stoked on the Wright Brothers again. How does the Wright Flyer sound to ya?

No need to boot folks out of the house. If you (or any body else) can make it great if not, then just wait till the rules post and we can talk then.


:ernae:

buzzbee
September 16th, 2009, 19:31
The only problem with it is landing and taking off. It has an extremely long nose.

Willy
September 16th, 2009, 20:06
If we stick to what we did last time the FS9 Hughes H-1 was disqualified as the airfile was just too darn hot.

teson1
September 17th, 2009, 00:26
How does the Wright Flyer sound to ya?

Does this thing even have a throttle?? :icon_lol:

Highmike
September 17th, 2009, 02:35
If we stick to what we did last time the FS9 Hughes H-1 was disqualified as the airfile was just too darn hot.

I tried flying the Aerosoft version in the tropics, and the weather was just too darn hot. You'd never get to Melbourne in this one. The Hughes Racer is strictly a cold weather flyer.

txnetcop
September 17th, 2009, 03:50
Might do that this year it has a been a while Willy
Ted

Moses03
September 17th, 2009, 09:38
So many lovely Italian trimotors, so little time...

http://i31.tinypic.com/14aa4pi.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/opbudz.jpg

:mixedsmi:

Willy
September 17th, 2009, 10:59
I tried flying the Aerosoft version in the tropics, and the weather was just too darn hot. You'd never get to Melbourne in this one. The Hughes Racer is strictly a cold weather flyer.

As far as I know, we haven't tested the Aerosoft H-1, just Piglet's.

buzzbee
September 17th, 2009, 16:12
Piglets is the one I played with.

Milton Shupe
September 17th, 2009, 17:33
We are making good progress on the Puss Moth and still plan to have a version available a week before the race (in 3 paint schemes - red, light blue, and black). Now, how this aircraft finished in the top five ... dunno but she is a joy to fly, albeit slowly. I hope to have the aircraft that flew in the London to Melbourne race, the VH-UQO but no guarantees.

Dangerousdave26
September 17th, 2009, 17:38
Thanks Milton

I am waiting on it.

I don't care where it will finish in speed. If they set the event up right planning will weight as heavy as speed.

txnetcop
September 18th, 2009, 07:42
We are making good progress on the Puss Moth and still plan to have a version available a week before the race (in 3 paint schemes - red, light blue, and black). Now, how this aircraft finished in the top five ... dunno but she is a joy to fly, albeit slowly. I hope to have the aircraft that flew in the London to Melbourne race, the VH-UQO but no guarantees.

That would really be great to have in the race Milton. Outstanding work
Ted

Moses03
September 18th, 2009, 09:58
Interesting scale profiles of some of the original entrants-

Milton Shupe
September 19th, 2009, 18:37
Interestingly, they show a Leopard Moth instead of the Puss Moth in those charts. :isadizzy:

Willy
September 19th, 2009, 21:05
Yep and the Northrup that Jackie Cochrane was originally going to fly in the race before she crashed it. No mention of the Gee Bee she did fly in the MacRobertson.

Speaking of the Gee Bee R-6, I've been doing some practicing with it lately....

MaddogK
September 20th, 2009, 15:03
I was reading the original rules of the MacRobertson race and saw something interesting: as part of the requirements each plane was required to carry floats (as well as 3 days rations for each crewmember), How/where does one carry floats for the DC2 ??


The basic rules were: no limit to the size of aircraft or power, no limit to crew size, no pilot to join aircraft after it left England. Aircraft must carry three days' rations per crew member, floats, smoke signals and efficient instruments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacRobertson_Air_Race

Willy
September 20th, 2009, 16:05
I think they meant life preservers.

RFields
September 20th, 2009, 17:25
Well I have seen pictures of DC-3's on floats in the water. Weird looking.

The Brits wrote the rules and you know how the mangle the language. It could have been life preservers, or inflatable rafts. Just some kind of flotation devices. There are rules similar for when you fly your GA aircraft to places like The Bahamas in today's world.

Heck, almost none of us meet the current requirements for long distance flights in central and west Australia about water, rations, emergency shelter, etc.

MaddogK
September 20th, 2009, 17:58
I think they meant life preservers.

Ahh, British humor.
:173go1:

Willy
September 21st, 2009, 17:41
Here's some more light reading about the original 1934 race and it's contestants.

http://www.pjcomputing.flyer.co.uk/comet/

MaddogK
September 21st, 2009, 19:36
Nice. I finally got ahold of a Fairey Fox model, but won't have it converted/built by race time. I'll prolly shop it around and see if one of the 'pro' builders want to tackle it. It's an awesome plane and am surprised it hasn't been built as a freeware project yet, and I really don't want it to be another one of my unfinished projects- it's deserves better.

Willy
September 21st, 2009, 23:45
Spy shots of some top secret test flights taken tonight....

Willy
September 22nd, 2009, 09:49
A few pics taken of the 1934 Race

http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Image.aspx?GalleryName=Photo%20Archive/Air%20Races&Image=FA_10889se

MaddogK
September 22nd, 2009, 19:43
Ya baby !! Nice pics, especially #40.

Willy
September 24th, 2009, 00:01
Some more flight testing......

Moses03
September 24th, 2009, 09:44
Mr. Ito's DH.86 "Express" is just crying for an accurate FM. Not the fastest ship, but sure is stylish. Four engines to keep you safe over the mysterious Timor Sea!

Drzook
September 27th, 2009, 04:57
Not sure if this one would be legal, but I've been thinking our own Put-Put's Northrop Gamma would be a force to be reckoned with in the race. When I originally came across it I thought the airfile was too hot but according to a few sources it might not be hot enough. After some thought I left the horsepower at 700 because I felt that 785hp at 2500rpm would in real life make for a very finicky high maintenence engine. Still makes for a pretty fast ship (cruises at 200mph IAS).
Here's what I've done so far:
My FS2004 Gamma:
Original built by Paul 'Put Put' Clawson
First panel/vc fix by Bob Ciclio
Texture mods: BananaBob Prop from AlphaSim Blenheim
Sound: Lawdog's F4F Wildcat sounds
Panel: added Sperry Autopilot in separate window
cfg file: modified engine data to reflect more realistically Wright R-1510 Whirlwind 14 (14 cylinders instead of 7). added differential braking and decreased the brakes' general touchiness
It only has 170 gallons fuel in her; I'm pretty sure that when Frank Hawks did the transcontinental record there were a couple extra tanks but couldn't find out just how much. I'm still looking though.:kilroy: Screenies are file pics you get with the plane.

MM
September 27th, 2009, 05:31
Hi Drzook,

The Gamma is surely a competitor. It is of great historic interest and will be a very welcome addition to the roster. Delighted to see your interest.

One thing to note is that the rules prohibit "improving" the aircraft. The normal standard is that you may work on the instrumentation and paint job, but not the flight model in any way. This rule is in place for obvious reasons having to do with the competition.

However, we are eager to encourage good work. When you design a more accurate flight model and share it with everyone, then you will be making a contribution to the community. Excellent!

You want to submit such changes at least two weeks before the start of the race so the Organizing Committee can make a judgment about eligibility. (Documentation of the actual aircraft's characteristics and then your alterations--and your test data confirming your successful changes--would be evidence for acceptance.) We shall be glad to work with you to make the experience a positive one for everyone concerned.

The lead time will also allow other participants to use your aircraft as their own ride. All aircraft models must be publicly available--again for obvious competitive reasons.

Your work looks terrific so far. Look forward to further developments.

Best,
Mike MacKuen

MaddogK
September 29th, 2009, 19:49
Jomsom you say ??
NO WAY I say, 20k feet is too hard to get, and I aint givin it up for that grass strip, not in these mountains.

RFields
September 30th, 2009, 04:29
Some practice

salt_air
September 30th, 2009, 04:30
Jomsom you say ??
NO WAY I say, 20k feet is too hard to get, and I aint givin it up for that grass strip, not in these mountains.

That Stearman is a beautiful beast innit? :jump:

MaddogK
September 30th, 2009, 06:50
It's a special kinda insanity that makes me take that beast into the himalayas, but ya, shes a glorious 'beast', handles like a truck but I'm quite fond of her.

Willy
October 2nd, 2009, 17:48
Just an update. The rules are near completion and just need a hair more tweaking.

MaddogK
October 2nd, 2009, 20:11
Well I got busted testing the FM and was asked about the model, here's a pic of the Fairey Fox Mk3 I'm trying desperately to get ready for the race. Still no textures, no cockpit of any kind, and no animations, but I figure to have a decent FM by this weekend (or so is the plan).

salt_air
October 3rd, 2009, 04:46
Well I got busted testing the FM and was asked about the model, here's a pic of the Fairey Fox Mk3 I'm trying desperately to get ready for the race. Still no textures, no cockpit of any kind, and no animations, but I figure to have a decent FM by this weekend (or so is the plan).

Awesome!,

Looks good so far MaddogK,,,,be curious to see the finished product.

Been trying to slip a "Crate" motor in the ol' Wright Flyer, but it keeps falling through the canvas on the wing....:isadizzy:.

Best,

Dangerousdave26
October 3rd, 2009, 06:56
Awesome!,

Looks good so far MaddogK,,,,be curious to see the finished product.

Been trying to slip a "Crate" motor in the ol' Wright Flyer, but it keeps falling through the canvas on the wing....:isadizzy:.

Best,

There's an idea a Wright Flyer with a 1959 Porsche 356A engine on it. :icon_lol:

MaddogK
October 3rd, 2009, 15:33
Awesome!,

Looks good so far MaddogK,,,,be curious to see the finished product.

Been trying to slip a "Crate" motor in the ol' Wright Flyer, but it keeps falling through the canvas on the wing....:isadizzy:.

Best,

Crate ? like small block ? Bailing wire and duct tape should keep er in place.
:ernae:

Anyhow, got the FM together for review, can a committee member PM me with an addy I can send the 'package' to ?

Drzook
October 3rd, 2009, 18:17
I'm not sure if I will be able to compete in the race but for those that would like to fly the Northrop Gamma here's what I got:
Start with Paul 'Put Put' Clawson's Gamma over at Simviation:
http://www.simviation.com/fs2004vintage59.htm
Don't forget to get the updated face texture.
Add Bob Irwin's panel update:
http://www.simviation.com/fs2004vintage91.htm
This should be enough to get you going;
at this point I had put on a BananaBob prop (inteneded for Alphasim's Blenheim but it looks good on the Gamma), added an Autopilot (just hit shift-6 to get to it) and found out just how much gas can fit into the cargo compartment (total fuel is around 330 or so gallons). I have enclosed the updated panel.cfg and the aircraft.cfg files (in txt format). She can be a bit difficult at startup; just give it a bit of gas on startup and after a few seconds you can throttle back to idle. Hope you like it.

Moses03
October 4th, 2009, 12:17
The virtual Lockeed people were nice enough to ferry over a Orion 9 cargo ship for evaluation. The first Model 14 Super Electra off the line has been promised to Howard Hughes so I don't know if we will get to test one in time for the race.

Milton Shupe
October 4th, 2009, 14:51
Just an update. The rules are near completion and just need a hair more tweaking.

We are trying to get the Puss Moth ready and I think we will have a beta package released next weekend.

About those rules, when must this be available and released to make the cutoff? Fliger_747 has the flight model about wrapped up and I want to make this available for some testing to you guys.

I need to know if anyone has the Melrose fuel specs that were on-board for this race. Setup as factory, she has 430 miles available with the small tanks, but two larger options existed (approx. 650 and 800 milers). What do you want?

Anything else I need to know?

Who has time to do some testing?

Average speed is 108mph or 94kias ... she is very forgiving on landings, you can 3-point her at 39 kias, very trimable, a joy to fly.

Highmike
October 4th, 2009, 17:18
Who has time to do some testing?


I'd be honoured to assist in this regard, Milton. Should I PM my email addy?

Milton Shupe
October 4th, 2009, 17:24
I will post a link to you (and anyone seriously interested) in PM once I have her packaged and uploaded. It will be mid-week.

Thank you :)

Moses03
October 4th, 2009, 17:49
Looks fantastic Milton. :applause:

The race starts at dawn on Oct 20th. If we could get something a week out I think that would be plenty of time to test and for any pilots to decide to take her the distance (other than the team effort we have planned for it). So maybe a beta release next weekend and then a few days of tweaking (if any) would get us in line for an initial release and then the race. Since you, Scott, Damian and Tom have been so accommodating, I'm sure we can make an exception with the Puss Moth right up until race day.

As far as the specs for the Melrose ship, I think it would be safe to give it a 800 mile range. From the accounts I have read , Melrose traveled that distance many times. Besides it needs all the help it can get to be competitive.

My 2 cents anyways. See if anyone else from the rules committee wants to chime in.

Thanks- Moses

Milton Shupe
October 4th, 2009, 18:03
Thank you Moses. Looking over the distances between fuel stops (posted on page 2), none are over 600 miles. That being the case, it may be better from a speed standpoint to use the 650~ mile tanks. I don;t remember if they are mandatory or optional though.

Also, will have to check with Fliger_747 on fuel consumption and setup but should be no problem. I can throw in temporary tanks in the VC if necessary for the visual enhancement. :)

salt_air
October 4th, 2009, 18:35
Hello Milton,

It would be a pleasure to test this aircraft out. It looks fantastic!

Please feel free to add my name to any list of testers that you may have.

I check the forum daily for PM's and new posts.

Best regards,

Drzook
October 4th, 2009, 18:56
The virtual Lockeed people were nice enough to ferry over a Orion 9 cargo ship for evaluation. The first Model 14 Super Electra off the line has been promised to Howard Hughes so I don't know if we will get to test one in time for the race.

Actually, Lockheeds were supposed to be very well represented in the Great Air Race. In addition to the metal bodied Vega Puck (which was the only Lockheed to participate in the race) both Wiley Post and Amelia Earhart were going to bring their Vegas to the party.
From Revolution in the Sky:
'...Early in 1934 the MacRobertson Race from London to Melbourne was announced, a classic sporting event which has never been equaled in aviation history. It was thought that transport aircraft with good long-distance performance would be the sure key to success in this great contest, and American planes were hurriedly sought as entries. By August, no less than nine single-engined Lockheeds were entered. Prepared to compete were Wiley Post, with his world-famed Winnie Mae, and Sir Charles Kingsford-Smith, with his blue-and-silver Altair. Another Altair was to carry Ruth Nichols, and further entries included Orions to be flown by Laura Ingalls, Frank Rose, Russ Thaw, and Harry Lyon. French pilot Michel Detroyat announced intentions to compete with a specially built Orion on which he had planted a powerful Hispano-Suiza radial engine....'
In fact IIRC one of the Varney Orions was going to compete in the race but the king of Romania was so impressed by a flight that summer he bought the plane outright.

MM
October 4th, 2009, 19:33
Hi Milton and Tom,

More information on the Jimmy Melrose Puss Moth VH-UQO (My Hildergard)

From Flight (the weekly magazine of the Royal Aero Club), October 18, 1934.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1934/1934%20-%201069.html

This is part of an article that describes the competitors and their aircraft on the eve of the Race.
C. J. Melrose had arrived with his cleaned-up "Puss Moth"—
actually the machine in which he had flown from
Australia in record time. In racing form My Hildegarde,
as it is called, is fitted with spats, a Fairey metal propeller,
and an extra tank giving a range of 1,200 to 1,300 miles.
Both air brake and wing-folding fittings have been removed
and the engine is a Gipsy Major—unusual in a "Puss
Moth "—with stub exhausts.

Mr. Melrose claims that his "race" will be a sightseeing
tour, and he proposes to take twelve or thirteen
days over the trip. His machine is considerably faster than standard.
And this on the horsepower, from the "Australian Dictionary of Biography."
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A100467b.htm
Jimmy purchased a DH Puss Moth fitted with a powerful 120 horsepower (89 kW) Gipsy Major engine. He named the plane 'My Hildergarde' and in August 1934 flew 8000 miles (12,875 km) solo around Australia, reducing the previous record by almost two days, to 5 days, 10 hours, 57 minutes. A skilful and courageous natural flyer, Melrose was tall, flaxen haired and blue eyed; while conforming to the popular ideal of a hero, he avoided lionization. He exercised seriously, swimming at Glenelg where he and his mother lived; he kept early hours, neither smoked nor drank alcohol and ate 'Oslo' lunches.
Hope this helps.

Best,
Mike MacKuen

Milton Shupe
October 4th, 2009, 20:34
Ah, great info Mike ... thank you for that effort. We have added several standard and alternate tank configurations including the 160 gal version that should get you in the neighborhood of 1250-1300 miles at 8.23 MPG which you can get running at full allowable continuous RPMs.

The Puss had no battery, lights or generator that I can find but we may add a small wing strut mounted one for gauge lighting if needed.

The dh-80A, the most prolific of the Puss Moth series, ran the Gipsy Major engine and I will be happy to cut the exhausts back to a set of header pipes.

Not sure at this time if Damian will have a VH-UQO ready for us or not but we will have something available.

Thanks again

MM
October 5th, 2009, 05:45
This is all great stuff, Milton. A true delight.

Milton Shupe
October 5th, 2009, 09:46
Thanks Mike. Damian is working on the paint scheme as we speak. We have probably unanswerable questions regarding colors of lettering and wheel pants. I am guessing true Aussie colors, maybe blue, and he is thinking red lettering. Any ideas?

MM
October 5th, 2009, 10:19
Hi Milton,

Sorry, I don't know the color of VH-UQO. I have seen only Black and White photographs. However, it appears to be either white, or more likely, a light matt aluminum finish. Note that the wing struts and pants are of a darker color.

You can look at the clear photographs below. To get a sense, you can push the "arrows" in the slideshow (the first two) to see other aircraft that are either white (the Bellanca and perhaps the Vega) or aluminum (the DC-2 & Miles Falcon) in color. Note that the Dragon Rapide is orange!

VH-UQO Taxiing
http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Image.aspx?GalleryName=Photo%20Archive/Air%20Races&Image=FA_10926s

Melrose standing next to VH-UQO
http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Image.aspx?GalleryName=Photo%20Archive/Air%20Races&Image=FA_10949s

Melrose in a later triumphal pose
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/discover_collections/history_nation/aviation/crossing_oceans/air/airviewer.html

For what it's worth, in the Australian made movie "The Great Air Race," VH-UQO was portrayed in a matt aluminium finish. (I recall the lettering being black, but am not sure.)

Perhaps someone in our forum actually knows the answer.

Best,
Mike

Moses03
October 5th, 2009, 11:28
From the movie MM mentioned:

http://i35.tinypic.com/nfnuqu.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/3dmau.jpg


I also just got a response back from the UK Moth Club (http://www.dhmothclub.co.uk/):

"Silver overall and black lettering….

Good luck.

Stuart McKay"

Milton Shupe
October 5th, 2009, 14:35
Excellent investigative work Gentlemen :applause:

We are on it. :-)

BTW, the aircraft pictured here in th emovie of course is a Leopard Moth .... but this works. :) :ernae:

Milton Shupe
October 6th, 2009, 15:29
The Melrose paint scheme will likely be completed Wednesday or Thursday. I have many small things to do to sync the exterior and VC models with all the changes of the past week.

We are doing our best to have a package (first beta) to you this week. I appreciate your interest.

Moses03
October 6th, 2009, 15:31
Thank you for the update Milton. Looking forward to it.

Milton Shupe
October 7th, 2009, 10:22
Damian has the basic textures done for the wings and fuselage ... still working details. :)

Will you guys require a visual of the 55 gal drums in the cockpit? Will not have time to treat fuel selections separately, just one big tank to the sim at 160 gallons.

srgalahad
October 7th, 2009, 10:30
Milton, the chance to just have UQO to fly means more than details.

Ultimately it would be spectacular to have the visual tank but I'm sure the 'tech inspectors' will understand it's enroute from the factory.
Hopefully the team crew will be resourceful pilots ( with lots of advice in their notebooks) so I'm sure they will provide an abacus to calculate how much petrol to pour in the tanks on any leg.

Besides, you need some prep time to fly her yourself so you can 'grab a leg' during the run.:jump:

Rob

Moses03
October 7th, 2009, 10:32
There she is. :mixedsmi:

Milton- It would be nice to see the extra tanks if at all possible. We understand if this needs to be omitted to speed things up on your end.

salt_air
October 7th, 2009, 12:11
Milton,

We could run some betas with what ever you have ready. There's still nearly two weeks intill the start of the race.

Perhaps you could use up some more of the free time before the race actually starts to put the finishing touches on a final edition for the race.

I'm quite sure it wouldn't bother any of us one bit to switch out a bmp file or two just before the flag drops.

Best,

AussieMan
October 7th, 2009, 13:49
Hi Milton,

Now that we have almost completed testing the DC-2 I am up for another challenge and would happily love to be on your beta team for the Puss Moth.

I would be one of those people who could be able to tell you howit works in FSX.

Cheers
Pat

Milton Shupe
October 7th, 2009, 15:19
Thanks for the comments everyone. I will make the early beta available to anyone here that wants it and we will continue to improve and refine until race day. The FM is done although Tom may wish to tweak it a bit for the 160 gallon tank(s). I'll post a link Friday on whatever we have ready.

salt_air
October 7th, 2009, 16:42
Feels just like a kid at Christmas.......:jump:

MM
October 7th, 2009, 18:19
Kudos to Damien.

Now, to give the pilot a shock of blond hair, freckles, and oodles of boyish charm...

Milton Shupe
October 7th, 2009, 18:49
Kudos to Damien.

Now, to give the pilot a shock of blond hair, freckles, and oodles of boyish charm...

Actually, he worked on that today. ;-)

buzzbee
October 8th, 2009, 17:50
Milton, you do nice work. I have enjoyed many hours with your models.

Thank you

Milton Shupe
October 8th, 2009, 18:25
Well thank you buzzbee. I assure you that it is the team that makes it what it is. I just provide the framework.

I am working on putting together a limited first beta package tonight for the Melrose version. I will upload tomorrow for the race team and staff.

Dangerousdave26
October 8th, 2009, 18:38
I am waiting...

We have the paint team on stand by.

Dave

Milton Shupe
October 8th, 2009, 19:11
LOL Well, there will be no paint kit for a while yet. Still working on all the package paints including this one. For those who may be using FSX, she looks good so far in FSX SP2 Accel here as well.

I got the header pipes in but won;t have the tanks in this version. We are also trying to sort out the SFC with the stated mileage and tanks. Right now with 160 gallons at altitude I am getting over 2000 miles range ... a bit high. :-)

Dangerousdave26
October 8th, 2009, 19:15
LOL Well, there will be no paint kit for a while yet.

Don't worry about that as long as there are textures we can shoot paint. :icon_lol:

MaddogK
October 10th, 2009, 05:50
To ensure eligibilty of the Fairey Fox I'm completing I've attached flight model submitted to the race committee earlier this week for review, and it is written to replace the flight model from Ted Cook's Fury_v3 (fury_v03.zip) flight model (with his permission). The Fox visual model should be completed (as a working beta) by Sunday night once I build a basic texture set for it, and a cockpit. With a bit of luck the entire aircraft will be ready for download by Monday morning.

<edit> after a bit of thought I've decided to post a 'working' beta aircraft. Follow the the instructions in the 'readme' file.

srgalahad
October 10th, 2009, 07:46
Just a note to, first of all, thank Mssrs Shupe, TF, Damian et al and MaddogK for their efforts to broaden the horizons of long distance racing!

For the rest of you out there that have dreams of increasing the flock, these are two good examples of the process - keep in touch with the Committee, keep users updated, try to stay true to the real aircraft and not try to build a 'hotshot' winner, and accept that not all things will happen magically! While, in this case, both aircraft are going to be close to deadline you can see that the committee is willing to work WITH you if you make the same effort.

On another line of thinking, when possible make an effort to model the other aspects (fuel, fuel consumption, weight, etc.) as accurately as the speed values - you never know when there might be another event that meters efficiency, cost, or ???

Historically we've had a lot of attention paid to the beautiful visual model, but as we are seeing, a great model also has a good/great airfile. It's a tricky subject but there are lots of people out there willing to help turn out a quality project that flies as "right" as it looks.

I'm looking forward to watching the 10,000 mile beta test :icon_lol:

Rob

MaddogK
October 10th, 2009, 11:43
I'm looking forward to watching the 10,000 mile beta test :icon_lol:

Rob

Aye, the race organizers and regulating committee deserve our thanks (and MANY drinks) for their hard work, and patience. Thanks guys (and gals if applicable).
:ernae:
"10,000 mile beta test" ?
I think you overestimate your chances, or underestimate ours.
:wiggle:

MaddogK
October 12th, 2009, 06:50
The complete Fairey Fox will be uploaded tonight.
:ernae:

RFields
October 12th, 2009, 15:56
I'm looking forward to watching the 10,000 mile beta test

Not an unusual concept.

The DC-2 and B-247 flights were pretty much 10K beta tests in the real race, along with the Dh-88's.

Milton Shupe
October 12th, 2009, 16:49
LOL In our case, we will have working instruments and accurate flight model ... the beauty of the model is questionable in some eyes. :wiggle:

I will also add that the Puss Moth should be released this coming weekend if all continues to go well. Even if not, the Melrose version will be released if the other liveries are not ready.

MaddogK
October 13th, 2009, 06:22
I uploaded the complete Fox last night and tho she's NOT pretty (yet) it IS complete and flyable. I'll be the first to admit it's FAR from what I intended but it's the best I can do in 8 days. I hope she'll be race legal. I'll do a complete rework of the visual model after the race has concluded and build some textures but for now it's 'passable', and I fully intend on flying it for the race.

Best of luck to all the race participants.