A Message to Developers

[jmig]

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I understand the rock and hard place you find yourself caught between. On one hand you have low life scum posting your hard earned work on sites where anyone can steal it from you. Then on the other hand you have loyal customers who get caught in the middle, as you attempt to protect your work.

I write to you as a friend and loyal customer. I am only one individual, so I can only speak for myself. However, unless I miss my guess, I am one of the vocal customers who says what the silent majority doesn't always say.

I have about had it up to my eyeballs with online installers that require registry modifications and are a pain in the a$$ to reinstall. I have about decided that from now on I will NOT buy any add-on that requires me to have an internet connection and requires me to jump through hoops to get something I bought to work.

Call me arrogant, call me old fashion, call me unreasonable, or anything else you wish. I promise it will roll off my back like water off a ducks. However, as a consummer who gladly pays $40-$50 and $60 for something I want, I expect a couple of things from you.

One is should work reasonably well and do what the standard currently is in FSX. To be honest, I have found only one airplane and one add-on airbase that did not meet the requirements of this category. You guys are to be complemented on the high quality and high value add ons you have been offering us, the consumer.

The other requirement is that is should be easy to install the first time and every six months later when FSX does its thing and rolls over on it's back due to overload.

It is here where some of you are falling short. Most do very well. It is the few that I plan on boycotting, so long as you continue to make reinstalling difficult for me.

Case in point: I have been reloading FSX for the umteen time. I decided to leave off a lot of planes I don't fly anyway. There is one WWII fighter that is a beautiful plane and a joy to fly. It uses one of these complicated protection schemes operated by another company.

Before formatting my hard drive, I saved FSX in its entirety. Because I only fly one or two liveries of any aircraft, I have modified all of the cfg files. So, I merely dragged the airplanes over into the new FSX airplane folder. To test them I did a brief flight in each different model.

Low and behold, when it came to this airplane, I had no VC. So, I dragged out the install file, looked up the S/N, key, etc and attempted to install.

The installation folder went so far and then stopped and told me it had disconnected from the server. I tried compatibility steps, turning the firewall off and on, checking its settings. An hour later I was no closer to flying.

I then went to the developer's forum and posted my problem. This morning someone replies and asks me to contact the support of the other company. The one who handles the purchasing. So I email them.

A few hours later I get a reply asking me to make sure I am on-line and my firewall is not blocking them. I reply back, saying that I had already checked all of that stuff. I don't hear back from company B.

So tonight, I start digging for info on how maybe I can trick it to work. I find a pdf file on how to use a second computer to get validated. It's worth a shot, I think. So I follow the instructions only to get a message that I HAVE TO BE CONNECTED to the internet to install. :banghead:

It has been over 24 hours and I am no closer to flying than I was yesterday. In the grand scheme of things 24 hours is no big deal...EXCEPT...if this re-installation was a simple process, as it should be, I would have been flying last night. I can fly 99% of the aircraft I own. Why not this one?

So, although these two companies have a couple projects that I am interested in buying, as it stands now, I won't be doing so. I am not going to spend hours upon hours trying to get some $40- $50 & $60 add-on to work. I am old enough to know that after a few days the crying and the shakes of not having this new toy will go away.

Sincerely,

John P. Miguez

[harleyman]

Not sure how to reply to this.... :kilroy:


Its the same for us all is the best I can tell ya.....

[MCDesigns]

I feel your pain John, been there, done that. I was just having this exact conversation with a developer earlier.

I see both sides since I do commercial work and have had my files stolen, yet just the other day I had to wait for 24 hrs for Flight1 to get back to me on an install issue, which they did.

[Boomer]

I gotta agree with you John.

I have no problem with companies using some sort of validation method to protect their work. However it must not be so draconian that it gives those of us that purchase the product undue fits.
Nothing burns my biscuits more than to buy a plane & not be able to install it because of some "hiccup" in the installation routine.

I know the plane of which you speak. When I 1st installed it everything went through without a hitch. After my 1st FSX reinstall I wasnt able to get it in & jumped through the same hoops. I finally gave up & vowed not to buy from them again. Its a shame because some recent releases sparked my interest but I refuse to deal with it again.

[hews500d]

I agree John. I have (well...had) one favorite jet trainer aircraft for fs9 that I could never get to reinstall properly when I built my new system. I keep getting messages that I have a "pirated" copy and can't get the engines started. Not sure if it's a Vista problem or a problem with the vendor that uses a very secure wrapper... and unfortunately repeated emails to the developer have went unanswered...however... I notice the plane can still be purchased.:isadizzy:

Darrell

[MenendezDiego]

Sorry to hear you didn't get her installed.

It took me about a week of emails to finally get mine to work after my FSX Re-Install...the last few emails I sent were in the tone of, "I WANT MY G-DAMN PLANE...NOW!"

Hell isn't it. Hopefully they sort it out as they did for me. It's sad though that the company who MADE it, does not offer support.

Diego

[Lionheart]

Im ok with the online thing, so long as its quick and painless. Its when it doesnt work, and no one can ansere questions that gets me. One was 'so and so who handles this is on vacation for 2 weeks', or worse was no ansere at all.

Both are amazing, but... do not run on my system, and I never ended up using them.

I think that customer service should have 'work arounds' for special situations. Bottom line.


Bill

[noshadez]

I remember what the great Alphasim Phil told me when I had a (Enter serial) in one of my addons..He said please remove that as it is pointless.. I just go that route..there is only one thing you can count on -The Honest good people- or - those afraid to get a virus at a torrent site...Either way both get to go to Heavan in the end:pop4:

[Rezabrya]

I had the same problem with the same company if Im guessing right. It took about 6 emails with me asking in every one "Just reset my license so I can fly it" yet they refused to do this until the 6th email which was about 5 days after I originally emailed them. I dont believe in licensing a plane. Its like we are renting it and not buying it which is insane.

[Kiwikat]

Its like we are renting it and not buying it which is insane.

Get used to it... that is what the future of computers holds for everyone. I was talking to one of my professors about this exact same thing, and he sees software going in that direction. It will be a sad day when all we have is a monitor plugged into some terminal. That day is most likely coming too... sooner than you might think. :blind:

[IanHenry]

I like the Flight 1 system that always works ok for me but I agree some companies act as thought you need to get their permission to use the software that you have already paid for!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Ian.

[harleyman]

Life moves on...

Progess is fast and ever changing..Good or Bad !

[Gibbage]

Here is a baseball bat. The dead horse is in back. Have fun!


http://hornetsreport.com/HRForums/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

[Boomer]

Here is a baseball bat. The dead horse is in back. Have fun!


http://hornetsreport.com/HRForums/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

Not true at all, if those of you that have these practices in place actually listen to your customers then the horse is indeed very alive.

I can say with absolute certainty that it is impacting your income.

[Gibbage]

Its been discussed over and over and over. Would we get more customers if we didnt have some sort of copy protection? Maybe. Would it make up for lost sales? Possible.

Here is how I see it. I ride a motorcycle. There is a common saying we have when we park it. "The only way of keeping people from stealing your motorcycle is to make it a little more difficult to steal then the one you park next too". The people who are hard core pirates wont be swayed by any anti-piracy measures. But then there is casual sharing that hurts alot more. "Hay, check out this new P-38! Here is a CD with the file. Just drop it into your Sim Objects/Aircraft folder and fly!". Thats what we want to stop. For people why want to "try" it before they buy, thats now an option without having to go too TBP for the full version with FSD's trial copy's.

Sorry if it's a little cumbersome for you, but our very livelihoods are at steak. If someone was trying to take your food and rent money, wouldn't you do what you could to stop them? My rent relies 100% on sales. If everyone pirates our stuff, im out on the street. Its that simple. So forgive me for getting defensive.

[Bone]

I don't like doing triple back flips through flaming hoops while contorting my body into a figure-8, either.

[falcon409]

I had the same problem with the same company if Im guessing right. It took about 6 emails with me asking in every one "Just reset my license so I can fly it" yet they refused to do this until the 6th email which was about 5 days after I originally emailed them. I dont believe in licensing a plane. Its like we are renting it and not buying it which is insane.
Actually, that's pretty accurate. There is at least one company whose warranty info pretty much reads that, while you may have paid for the use of the aircraft, you don't own it in the sense that now you can do anything you want with it. We still retain true ownership and can revoke that purchase if we see fit.

I am not entirely sure of the company, so I won't name names, but it's one we all have had dealings with at one time or another.

[Gibbage]

I am not entirely sure of the company, so I won't name names, but it's one we all have had dealings with at one time or another.

Apple? You dont own an Iphone, you only pay to use it. So Apple has the right to tell you what you can and can not run on the phone.

Also, I know for a fact that Autodesk, who makes 3DS Max also has that in there license agreement, that we in no way "own" the software, but only pay for the ability to use it. So we can in no legal way resell it.

[Lionheart]

Apple? You dont own an Iphone, you only pay to use it. So Apple has the right to tell you what you can and can not run on the phone.

Also, I know for a fact that Autodesk, who makes 3DS Max also has that in there license agreement, that we in no way "own" the software, but only pay for the ability to use it. So we can in no legal way resell it.

EEEKS!!!

<--- gently rubs my iMac 24" Uni-Body and iPHone 32Gig and tries to forget what Gibbage just said.. (its ok children.. no one is taking you away!)


:d

[Kiwikat]

EEEKS!!!

<--- gently rubs my iMac 24" Uni-Body and iPHone 32Gig and tries to forget what Gibbage just said.. (its ok children.. no one is taking you away!)


:d

LMAO Bill... :icon_lol:

[gera]

Beleive it or not................Never have I had a problem with any company re-downloading a broken plane or something. Flight1 wrapper is fantastic, never fails...........:ernae:

[Gregory Paul]

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I understand the rock and hard place you find yourself caught between. On one hand you have low life scum posting your hard earned work on sites where anyone can steal it from you. Then on the other hand you have loyal customers who get caught in the middle, as you attempt to protect your work.

I write to you as a friend and loyal customer. I am only one individual, so I can only speak for myself. However, unless I miss my guess, I am one of the vocal customers who says what the silent majority doesn't always say.

I have about had it up to my eyeballs with online installers that require registry modifications and are a pain in the a$$ to reinstall. I have about decided that from now on I will NOT buy any add-on that requires me to have an internet connection and requires me to jump through hoops to get something I bought to work.

Call me arrogant, call me old fashion, call me unreasonable, or anything else you wish. I promise it will roll off my back like water off a ducks. However, as a consummer who gladly pays $40-$50 and $60 for something I want, I expect a couple of things from you.

One is should work reasonably well and do what the standard currently is in FSX. To be honest, I have found only one airplane and one add-on airbase that did not meet the requirements of this category. You guys are to be complemented on the high quality and high value add ons you have been offering us, the consumer.

The other requirement is that is should be easy to install the first time and every six months later when FSX does its thing and rolls over on it's back due to overload.

It is here where some of you are falling short. Most do very well. It is the few that I plan on boycotting, so long as you continue to make reinstalling difficult for me.

Case in point: I have been reloading FSX for the umteen time. I decided to leave off a lot of planes I don't fly anyway. There is one WWII fighter that is a beautiful plane and a joy to fly. It uses one of these complicated protection schemes operated by another company.

Before formatting my hard drive, I saved FSX in its entirety. Because I only fly one or two liveries of any aircraft, I have modified all of the cfg files. So, I merely dragged the airplanes over into the new FSX airplane folder. To test them I did a brief flight in each different model.

Low and behold, when it came to this airplane, I had no VC. So, I dragged out the install file, looked up the S/N, key, etc and attempted to install.

The installation folder went so far and then stopped and told me it had disconnected from the server. I tried compatibility steps, turning the firewall off and on, checking its settings. An hour later I was no closer to flying.

I then went to the developer's forum and posted my problem. This morning someone replies and asks me to contact the support of the other company. The one who handles the purchasing. So I email them.

A few hours later I get a reply asking me to make sure I am on-line and my firewall is not blocking them. I reply back, saying that I had already checked all of that stuff. I don't hear back from company B.

So tonight, I start digging for info on how maybe I can trick it to work. I find a pdf file on how to use a second computer to get validated. It's worth a shot, I think. So I follow the instructions only to get a message that I HAVE TO BE CONNECTED to the internet to install. :banghead:

It has been over 24 hours and I am no closer to flying than I was yesterday. In the grand scheme of things 24 hours is no big deal...EXCEPT...if this re-installation was a simple process, as it should be, I would have been flying last night. I can fly 99% of the aircraft I own. Why not this one?

So, although these two companies have a couple projects that I am interested in buying, as it stands now, I won't be doing so. I am not going to spend hours upon hours trying to get some $40- $50 & $60 add-on to work. I am old enough to know that after a few days the crying and the shakes of not having this new toy will go away.

Sincerely,

John P. Miguez

On top of that they make us pay extra for there protection that does nothing for us the end user! I am so with you on this and have been for many years. I will not buy anything from a company that does this!

[Lionheart]

Beleive it or not................Never have I had a problem with any company re-downloading a broken plane or something. Flight1 wrapper is fantastic, never fails...........:ernae:

Flight1 does have a brilliant system. I like it alot. I can get my records and backup keys anytime and they usually get back to me within 24 hours if there is an issue.



Bill

[bushpilot]

Yeah F1 Wrapper system is the best there is. Never has it let me down and getting reseted key takes about minute of your life so there's nothing to complain.:ernae:

[n4gix]

I'm investigating a method to detect when someone's tampered with a hidden, file-locked security file, and if the file has been altered in any way whatsoever, the gauge system will delete the .mdl file(s), then self-destruct, rendering the entire aircraft INOP.

Since a legitimate owner would never even look for such a file, much less try to alter it for any reason, no legitimate owner would ever encounter a problem. :ernae:

[Lionheart]

I'm investigating a method to detect when someone's tampered with a hidden, file-locked security file, and if the file has been altered in any way whatsoever, the gauge system will delete the .mdl file(s), then self-destruct, rendering the entire aircraft INOP.

Since a legitimate owner would never even look for such a file, much less try to alter it for any reason, no legitimate owner would ever encounter a problem. :ernae:


That sounds awesome! lololol.... I would love to have that. Patent it and sell it to us Bill!


Message appears on pirated copy: "This is a non-legal issue of the 'blah blah' aircraft. You have deleted the security keys that enable this file to function. This package is now self terminating per the purchase agreement!"

:d

Pirate: "AAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!"

Now, for those that might be alarmed, but purchased it properly, its like Flight1, you would simply get a new key, run the installer again, and done, you have the model back on your system.

[jimjones]

I hate to think of the loss of our planes that requires online connection when the company goes belly up or (God forbid) the internet goes kaput.:icon_lol:

[bushpilot]

I hate to think of the loss of our planes that requires online connection when the company goes belly up or (God forbid) the internet goes kaput.:icon_lol:


Well the whole Internet does not have to go kaput, just your own connection and after that using any sorts of software which requires you to be online is impossible.