Pirates bring down ORBX

[AussieMan]

ORBX http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php, the site that has brought us such wonderful scenery addons for Australia and the Pacific North West has closed. All because of f*****g pirates.

Thanks to Jay Kae one has been outed and reported to his ISP.

Cheers Pat

[Oli-TUB]

Better read the page before you post stuff like that. It reads "We'll be back" and such. It's just a protest closure for 24hours - not sure what purpose that should serve though.

[Lionheart]

This is sad news. I hope they can rebuild it and that its not a total loss.


Bill

[Oli-TUB]

Nah, it's just a protest blackout. Nothing's been hacked and nobody went outa business - yet. They'll open up again tomorrow.

[deathfromafar]

That's too bad. Sad thing is that this will only get worse as times goes on unless various govt's at least lift a finger to fight or at the very least block this kind of activity. Having a close friend who was forced into Chaper 11 because of his small software for business company getting hacked and pirated thus forcing him out of business. I have seen the damage in a very personal way. Seems to me the govt's lack the foresight and guts to tackle this issue. Until they do, things aren't going to change, only get worse.

[Henry]

This is sad news. I hope they can rebuild it and that its not a total loss.


Bill
I do not believed it was hacked
its a sad day though
Jay Kaye is one hill of a guy
and a tribute to the community


http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php
I would hate to imagine
H

[JamesChams]

Gents,

It will be back up in 24-hours... But, we've got to find a way of seriously "Harming" ($$$) these individuals so that this nonsense stops.

First, Avsim was hit,

then Aerosoft,

then SOH,

... REX

Now, Orbx

.... Who's next :kilroy: ?


Let's start posting these guys info on all the FS sites and ban these guys from everthing for a decade or so. :173go1:

Perhaps that will stop this from continuing... :applause:

[Oli-TUB]

You're talking hackers now. ORBX shut down in protest for 24hours because of piracy. That's not really the same thing. Both suck though for sure.

[bushpilot]

I would say that's pretty effective way to protest though:applause:

[Oli-TUB]

How? Everybody talks about it, that's for sure. But I don't think it changes much.

[bushpilot]

How? Everybody talks about it, that's for sure.

Isn't that the exact reason for protesting? Getting everybody to know what's up and talk about it?

[Henry]

How? Everybody talks about it, that's for sure. But I don't think it changes much.
i do not disagree it is there prerogative
if they have an IP addy for the pirate
it could be beneficial for others to see
and maybe scare off others
sadly there is no immediate solution
H

[Henry]

Isn't that the exact reason for protesting? Getting everybody to know what's up and talk about it?
well we are!
and thats a good thing
H

[Nick C]

I'd be surprised if the pirates care one bit if the site shuts down for 24 hours, but the honest paying customers may.

[ryanbatc]

I'd be surprised if the pirates care one bit if the site shuts down for 24 hours, but the honest paying customers may.

Yep! Anti-piracy hurts the honest ones.... oh well

[bushpilot]

If they are down only 24 hours nobody's getting hurt. And if they are up after that, anybody who's dissatisfied can go to their site and complain about their down time, so it's pretty fair.

[calypsos]

Seems odd, shutting the store because of a 'shoplifter', but that is their choice.

It is a shame, but unless payware either becomes so cheap, people will not bother to steal it, or developers put up some serious anti-piracy software (Sibwings protection for the Saab was secure for more than a year), this will not stop.

People out there have less money (thanks to the damn bankers) and crime (in all its forms) is on the increase. Fact of life, however unpleasant it is.

BTW, I agree Jay is a top bloke, and deserves better than this.

[harleyman]

What a shame .....

I'm glad that they will be back...

No clue how this can ever be turned around...Its just hard to believe that there are no real repercussions to pirates that do these things.

[MCDesigns]

Way to go Jay Kae, hope the :censored: get's his!!

[f-18hornet]

Way to go Jay Kae, hope the :censored: get's his!!

Is that Jay the same one like this from http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=22951&t=22951 who is there as a moderator??:mad:

[metalman739]

There is a way but a lot of you will want to have me shot for saying this, one activation, next time you have to produce your sale slip from Orbx and let them verify you are the purchaser, like they do at Iris and pay a fee, now I know that is sucky but when all these people are trying to activate this software and stealing their property, it will wipe them out, this is a little outrageous of an idea but this situation requires some drastic measures. I know I have enjoyed the Orbx experience and have all four regions, some payware and some free, those guy have been more than generous in how our flight experience has become, so as I said food for thought.
:kilroy:

[SirBenn21]

I hate pirates just as the next guy, but this looks a little like a tatrim by the developers because everyone is not buying all the products.

Now the next comment is just my opinion, so no flames.
I beleive ORBX has hurt themselves by pricing their stand alone airports way to high. I have had to stop buying their products purely because of that fact. Now before anyone crys "But it takes a lot of time and effort" (Which we all know) just add all the airports together and you will come to a whoping $320 AU which will become a justification in the little puney minds of the pirates.

I don't know the solution to the pirate problem, but maybe a better marketing stratergy needs to be thought out.

Just remember that this is my opinion.

Ben

[JayKae]

Is that Jay the same one like this from http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/re...=22951&t=22951 (http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=22951&t=22951) who is there as a moderator??:mad:

Yes, that would be me as well mate, thanks guys for the support it is very much appreciated. We wanted to make a stance and yes, I do realise that some customers might be disgruntled about this but we felt that it was necessary to show how we feel about seeing our hard work being ripped off by silly people.

[CG_1976]

Jay, you have my 110% respect, confidence and support in anything.:medals::applause:

[olaf1924]

I have noticed that it can take less than a day for a new release to show up on a pirate site. The question I ask myself is what is the purpose of people posting software including serial numbers and cracks. The main thing I noticed at the pirate site is most of the torrents are coming from just a few individuals with one individual responsible for fifty percent. The next question I have is why has the law done so little in enforcing the exsisting statutes. I am thinking some jail time with a heavy fine would go a long way in cleaning up the piracy problem. :USA-flag:

[Meshman]

i do not disagree it is there prerogative
if they have an IP addy for the pirate
it could be beneficial for others to see
and maybe scare off others
sadly there is no immediate solution
H

Maybe you missed this thread at Flightsim?

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?t=198866

Mr. Ferguson's presence in the Pirate community and the non-pirate community is well known. Rather funny that he was complaining about something that he couldn't "share" with his VIP members.

He's still shown as a member at Flightsim, probably still making purchases at the FSPilotShop for all I know?

But he's also been identified as a member of SOH.

Until the little weasel is left with no place to purchase products or make postings, just how effective can any anti-piracy effort be?

[JayKae]

@ Trans: Thank you man, very kind of you to say
@ Mesh: If it is effective, probably not but it is worth a shot and when I opened up my email this morning I had 3 emails with 'converted' pirates with apologies and proof of purchases.

The outset of closing the site for 24 hours was never to get more sales or anything we just wanted to make a stance, we have lost too many good people in the last two years to piracy so maybe our little effort means nothing but it makes us feel good about it at least :)

[hobofat]

JayKae is the forum administrator, I believe it is John Venema is the founder/lead developer of Orbx products. It's all a team though. Piracy I think hits extra hard for a company such as that because it's not just time and sweat that's been put into the product, it's a huge monetary investment in imagery, etc. that must be recouped.

[Henry]

But he's also been identified as a member of SOH.


that would be past member
H

[MCDesigns]

that would be past member
H

:applause:

Thanks for the flightsim.com forum link Meshman, was very enlightening.

[Cobra8472]

Piracy is bad- yes- but slapping fines or imprisoning people for piracy is simply unfeasible. Hundreds of millions of people around the globe are involved in piracy every hour; torrenting shows- music, FS X addons.

Nothing you can do about it really- the progression of technology and faster internet speeds lead to things like this. It will only get worse.

Reward the customer? Better encryption algorithms? Lower prices?
Not sure what the answer might be.

[Kiwikat]

Some of you mention lowering prices as a solution for piracy. That won't make a difference.

Pirates do what they do BECAUSE THEY CAN.

If the law actively persecuted them and charged them with crimes, piracy would be reduced. If every 15 year old girl who has downloaded a MP3 got fined a thousand dollars, piracy would be reduced. Currently there are few if any consequences for the every day thief. They steal because they can AND DO get away with it.

Software protection is useless. The hackers who figure out the ways around activation and such are just as smart as the people who write the software.

Laws, priorities, and morals will have to change if piracy is to be stopped. The big question is how...

[noshadez]

Id like to say thankx to all of you that do pay for stuff (credit or paypal)..most of you who are older 35yrs old and above do the honest thing..Most kids out there download pirate stuff cause its (The thing to do) and of course there is no international law so that said stuff like protesting them is only gonna get their (Laugh off) ..downloaded software is not something (Solid) like a TV or any object you buy like a loaf of bread or a car or something and it gets stolen off your property...You report something like that to the police and they will be all over it..(But) try and report something (invisible) such as your software in electric lady land downloads to the police and they will laugh at you the same as the pirates. Its a wierd world out there:isadizzy:

[deathfromafar]

If every 15 year old girl who has downloaded a MP3 got fined a thousand dollars, piracy would be reduced. Currently there are few if any consequences for the every day thief. They steal because they can AND DO get away with it.
The problem with that is that even if you could identify every single user and nail them, the cost of prosecuting them all would be prohibitive as well as the backed up docket would clog the criminal courts into infinity. Going after the people who source it is entirely feasible IF the criminal laws and system were tweaked the right direction. These current so called victories in Civil Court against illegal uploaders are the biggest joke. Yes they were found liable but now they will file Chapter 7 or 13 and the entire effort is a total waste. From that point they are untouchable. The answer is Federal Prosecution and supplemental State Laws that cover any gaps against "providers" of illegal distribution of copyrighted material. Therein such laws you can prevent a person(s) convicted of felony from escaping payment of fines and judgments upon them by means of bankruptcy filings. The other answer is the aggressive identification and blockage/shutdowns of the sites that are visible and the tracking down of the less visible ones giving them the same treatment. I would not however count on such strengthening of the laws when you have the offsprings of lawmakers heavily involved in illegal downloads. Quite of few have been caught to date.

[jeansy]

with the 24hr protest at orbx due to piracy, is it going to be a proud statement or a regret?

ive read some posts around the traps it normally starts with the 1st post supporting the protest then it quickly turns into dissapointment directed at orbx

from reading a lot of posts, johnny V tried to make a valid point but from majority of the public this isnt welcomed warmly, even other developers have questioned this motive and labelling it a waste of time and hurting the brands reputation

while there are some posts not supporting the actions of piracy in these threads but many feel that there is nothing that he can do about, when you boost security there will be always some one ahead of you who is smarter in cracking it, and while there is a demand for it it will thrive on the black market.

where from here?

everytime he releases a product and finds his package on a whares or torrent site is he going to go in lockdown again, or is he like most developers express their discontent in a less dramatic way that doesnt effect the average user, look at alphasim theyre no longer in a spot light and many people refuse to buy their products due to a few management decisions that showed very little respect to the customer.

seeing johnny v's character over the past yrs at other forums, it didnt surprise me one bit with what he did, what has me interested on how he indents to conduct further activity down the track, because no matter how hard or speaks against it, it will happen down the track again and again.

one thing out of all this, im glad im not in the software industry , really there is no real safeguards against all this, the way i see it is. if microsoft can prevent its own software from being pirated how can a little company prevent its own work for a game stop it. its a good thing that i dont consider FS my live style but a just a activity to kill time whilst i cant conducting my other activities.

interested on what happens next

[spotlope]

It's ironic, as I took a break from working on my first ORBX scenery to visit SOH, only to see this. From a marketing perspective, I have no idea if it's a good thing or a bad. As a dev, it put a dark cloud over an otherwise lovely afternoon of modeling.

Ah, screw it. I'm just gonna go back to work on 7S3 and forget about it.

[2Low]

I for one totally support what ORBX has done. They shut there site down for one day with a display page asking people to think what life would be like with out the developers and forums.

One day without getting to their content is no big deal. It got discussion occuring and just maybe may convince a few pirates to purchase rather than steal. I don't see this harming their customers or those that just get the wonderfull stuff they give away free. It will all be there tomorrow.

Now if we pause and really think,"what if it's not there tomorrow?", I think we all can see what a loss we would have. Their protest is not just for them but all developers and most devellopers are at the same risk. This won't stop all pirating, nothing will, but it may convert a few.

I hope his customers understand he is trying to do something to protect his livelyhood and support him. Imagine someone stealling from you that you couldn't get to legally or phisically, it would get to you if it occured daily.

People please keep FSX alive by purchasing your add ons and let's not have a backlash at someone trying to stand up for what is theirs.

To ORBX,
You had my respect for the freeware you put out and the product you sell, you've doubled that by making this small stand.

Rob

[ShawnG]

ORBX. fantastic products. excellent support. has a valid point about piracy. JayKae, Holger, Bill and most others absolutely fantastic. WAY too much drama on a continual basis.

[VFR Reviews]

Good for them.

I can't stand pirates. If I met one, I would turn it in to the cops in a second, if I could.

[Nonno]

I'm not condoning piracy, but seems to me by shutting down a legitmate business only affects legitmate customers. What message are you sending? What is the regular Joe who works hard for a buck and then spends it on your software suppose to do? I've read on here more than just a few times about the poor developers, well I got news for you, it isn't just software developers. I think that everyone in this day and age are hurting alittle more than in the past. For some people this is their only hobby and this is where they will spend that extra dollar they have been putting away. It's really getting tiresome reading some of these threads about stuff I for one don't have any control over. I come here and fly FSX because it takes me away from the everyday bull****. Don't need to hear more hear.

[N2056]

Quick question for any veterans...
How many of you guys did a lot of push-ups in boot camp because someone else screwed up? I know I did a lot!

Negative Reinforcement. Frankly I have no problem with what they are doing, but in terms of the big picture consider this...

I am willing to bet that there is nobody here that can honestly claim that they absolutely obey the speed limit while driving. Why? Because the odds are in your favor!

I submit to you that this issue will never go away. If you think it can be beat then you should also get rid of all the locks on your house, car, and anything else that is important to you and assume that everyone out there is honest.

This topic comes up with the regularity of someones work getting pirated. I apologize to those that will view me as pessimistic, but I call 'em like I see 'em.

If you really want to make a statement I say get all developers to do what Orbx is doing...all at the same time, but for a month.

[Francois]

A different approach, but suffering much the same or more...... (we're smaller)....

http://simflight.com/2009/08/06/fsaddon-welcomes-software-thieves/

[bushpilot]

I think if ORBX had announced of being down for 24 hours for maintenance, nobody would have even shrugged. But now that they are down to protest piracy....:pop4:


Nice going there Francois:applause:

[Z-PurpleBubble]

that would be past member
H

Henry,

I don't want to be a killjoy here, but if you read the flightsim.com thread closely and see this here, you can see that Mr. Fergusson still is a member over here!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showpost.php?p=202552&postcount=36

Just trying to do the right thing here. Sorry if I offended you!

[Oli-TUB]

A different approach, but suffering much the same or more...... (we're smaller)....

http://simflight.com/2009/08/06/fsaddon-welcomes-software-thieves/

That's actually a great idea. It brings the issue into the spotlight without slapping your legitimate customers in the face as hard as you can.

One other thing. The FTX-banner states that "... being stolen at a rate of hundreds per second". Is there anything to proof that claim? Hardly think so. And that rate would indicate that during the lock-down alone at least 8.640.000 copies would have been pirated (if you take "hundreds" as the smalles possible - 100). I hardly believe ORBX has even sold 1% of that with all their products combined. So what's about that? ORBX goeing well over the top - with their wording as well as with their action. And naturally every single illegally downloaded copy is a lost sale ...

I'm against piracy as anybody else around her but sometimes I think ORBX should take a cup of coffee and think for a minute before acting. I don't see any sense in that lock-down. It was a neat marketing gag though for sure. But it might as well alienate future customers - because you might never know with what they come up next.

[Francois]

Very likely triggered by the same frustration that gets all of us developers, but 'marketing gag' is the proper expression here I think ;-)

Now why didn't I think of it.....

[JayKae]

That statement was based on the amount of leechers at the time of the creation of the banner which at that stage was 157. Anyway, here is our official statement written by John 'Koorby' Venema :)


First things first - to our dedicated and faithful customers; we apologise for taking away your purchased rights to access the support forums. It was something which I agonised over and you deserve an explanation. For anyone who has had support issues unresolved in the past day, we will bend over backwards to work through them now. Again, please understand the action I took was not to punish you, our much appreciated customers who through your investment in our products allow us to continue to develop more.
So why did I close our sites for a day?
Contrary to many comments on various sites, we were not throwing a dummy spit or tantrum, nor pulling a clever stunt. That suggestion is offensive to us. We're not into gimmicks for gimmicks' sake.
We made a statement, pure and simple.
Cessnock and Hervey Bay airports were our most recent releases. They were both made by a large team of people, most of whom get paid for their work. We pay license fees for the aerial imagery. We lease PC equipment, pay rent, pay every single cent of our taxes, bank fees, reseller commissions, other royalties - the list goes on. And I can emphatically say we used licensed, purchased legitimate software and hardware tools to make those products. Hervey Bay was a long and hard project for us to complete, for a bunch of reasons I don't need to elaborate here. We had a slight delay with its launch due to last minute bugs, and we worked long into the night to honour our commitments to our very loyal customers who had such confidence in Orbx they pre-paid for it. So YHBA was a labour of love, and we sweated blood to make it. And it cost Orbx a LOT of money to make.
So imagine my utter disgust to be emailed and PM'd by half a dozen people the URL of torrent site location hosting a cracked version of YHBA, only a day or so after release. Imagine my absolute dismay to find the person uploading YCNK, YHBA and other products was actually asking for donations to be given to HIM, so HE could upgrade his PC.
Yes, piracy happens. I'm a big enough boy to understand the modern internet-connected world. I've worked in I.T. for 27 years. I don't live under a rock and pretend all human beings are honest and do the right thing. But this was I guess the straw that broke the camel's back. And to those who say they cannot afford to purchase an AU$40 airport I say "bull****!" - look past your nose at your clothes on your back, your PC in front of your face, the food you or your parents purchase, and all the other tech items you've invested in over the year. Claiming poverty is the most appallingly pathetic excuse I have heard, and I cannot believe it is actually being discussed on FS forums as some sort of justification. To quote young Alex, a 17-yo Orbx customer; "Just for the record you have my support 100% over. Im only 17 earning a small $12 an hour or $16 today (sunday) and even I can manage to pay the small cents Orbx asks." - thanks Alex!
Can't afford FS addons? Change hobbies. Enough said.

Why does stealing Orbx software not make sense to us?
- We price our products at the cheap to mid level of the FS market
- We provide (and have proven) the best vendor support in the entire FS industry, bar none
- We give away a complete region (Tasmania, as large as Northern Ireland) for FREE. It comes with a payware quality airport. It has no limits. Want us to seed it to a torrent site? Happy to do so if it provides a perception you're getting something for free (which you are.....)
- We give away about as much freeware as payware (please, please compare that to other FS vendors)
- We founded the team which became OZx. 400 free airfields and now what I believe to be one of the fastest growing FS addon portals in the world.
- We patch, hotfix, service pack and continually improve our software. There is not a single product from Orbx which won't get a free update this year, and that includes our freeware
- We listen to our customers. We try to learn from our mistakes. We sometimes bristle at your critique but we never stop learning and never claim to to perfect.
- We value our customers
- We give away lots of prizes, heck, even a AU$10,000 PC!
I ask you this question - What does Orbx do to deserve to be stolen from? Why is there a perception that it's ok to steal and share the products we have worked so hard to make?
I tell you this fact: We are not making an profit. We have debts to pay. We have 20+ people on various forms of contract and payroll. It costs a lot of money to run this small company.

Please don't steal from us.

We've made our statement, our silent protest today - and I hope, even in vain, that it has made some impact on the FS community, particularly those on the 'fringe' who we hope and pray might change their habits from today.
We offer to you our customers an apology for the outage, and hope no trust has been lost. For those who beg to differ, we'll respect your opinion too.

[Lawman]

Well, personally I think it is a good "statement" from the Orbx-team. To force down piracy there are some things needed. One is new legislation that reflects current technologies. You can slowly see the legislators "waking up", but since the piracy-problem is an international phenomenon, it ideally needs an international approach.

But the other (IMHO more important thing) is we need to bring back a sense of moral responsibility. The ideas of "good" and "bad" and the consequences if you "go bad":violent:.

For example: what do we really teach our kids? That you have to be "succesful" in society. And how do we measure "success"? Basically by how much stuff you can amass, how many times a year you can go on holidays and if your car is bigger than your neighbours'. And all the ads and TV-programmes only fuel this "more is better"-attitude.
Is it any wonder that kids crumble under such pressures and start looking for the easy way to obtain what they can't afford?

And slighty OT, but what really annoys me is that people are now "having" children (like they're having breakfast) and then burden society with looking after them, because mom and dad both have to work to pay off all the stuff they're buying:a1451:.

@Nonno: there is no such thing as the "right" to get an addon. A developer could tease you with screenshots of the most beautiful addon you've ever seen, and at the end say "I'm not releasing it". That's his or her prerogative. As a matter of fact, you kinda proved my point that our society is based on just three words: "Want, want, want".

[MCDesigns]

That's actually a great idea. It brings the issue into the spotlight without slapping your legitimate customers in the face as hard as you can.

One other thing. The FTX-banner states that "... being stolen at a rate of hundreds per second". Is there anything to proof that claim? Hardly think so. And that rate would indicate that during the lock-down alone at least 8.640.000 copies would have been pirated (if you take "hundreds" as the smalles possible - 100). I hardly believe ORBX has even sold 1% of that with all their products combined. So what's about that? ORBX goeing well over the top - with their wording as well as with their action. And naturally every single illegally downloaded copy is a lost sale ...

I'm against piracy as anybody else around her but sometimes I think ORBX should take a cup of coffee and think for a minute before acting. I don't see any sense in that lock-down. It was a neat marketing gag though for sure. But it might as well alienate future customers - because you might never know with what they come up next.

As a 3D developer that has been there in a commercial sense outside of FS, I feel their pain and frustration and support them making a statement and trying to make a point. That is the key problem I see, those that have no idea what it's like to have this happen to them and their work comdeming any act that inconveniences them ("customers") and those that do the work and are so incredibly frustrated that there is no clear course of action that will fix this problem (developers) doing things like this to "try" and get others to see what is going on and try to help.

I have no ORBx products, but now I plan to support them with my wallet

Lawman, excellent post and so true!!

[Oli-TUB]

Well that's the point that I don't really understand. With that action you're hurting the ones, that do support you the most. The pirates sure don't care if a forum is closed or not. And they sure don't care for the signal. And I don't think that the "black market" in unaware of the damage they do. They're simply accepting it and continue on because they can - lack of law enforcement and such.

The problem is that whatever you do (forum shutdown, restrictive activation schemes and the likes) are hurting the legitimate people the most. I don't have an alternative to offer and it's sad to see that so many small teams suffer from that issue.

But what can you do? If you'd implement a scheme that would only allow a single installation/activation and more only on personal request after proven legitimate you'd scare a lot of buyers away because they are not willing to put up with that. And I can understand that very well. Even if you'd make addons that cheap that pirating them would pretty senseless it would still happen.

I don't have a solution at all. You could see the legitimate owners as your base (not or making up or counting pirated copies as lost sales). After all, the ones pirating the addons aren't really the ones living the hobby are they? It's a nasty side effect that you can only hope to endure with some dignity.

[Lawman]

When I first got FS9 and discovered the addon-market, I must have bought virtually everything left and right and couldn't wait for a new release. However, with FSX I started to buy less. One of the reasons was that I didn't want another copy of an airplane I already owned in FS9 (there are a few exceptions to this rule). More important however is that I've learned how to "wait", meaning I don't have the urge to immediately buy any great looking addon. I thus got more selective in what I buy.

So you have to wait another 24 hours to get an addon. Big deal. As for scaring off customers: if I'm that convinced by the quality of the product that I want to spend money on it, that "conviction" is most likely gonna last another 24 hours. I have addons that I pondered months over before finally taking the plunge.

[PRB]

What I would like to know is, do anti-piracy measures actually work? Because if they do work, I might be less inclined to be “put off” by them. Do any of these “features” that make installing, and especially re-installing, these planes such a hassle actually help reduce piracy? I’d like to see some evidence, one way or the other. One side of the argument seems to be that it just simply has no effect whatsoever, and simply annoys and inconveniences the legal customer. The other side of the argument seems to be “you should be thankful to be unconvinced, since we’re helping stamp out piracy.” But these two arguments are about two different things! If these annoying and frustrating anti-piracy measures do not deter or reduce piracy, then what is the argument for continuing their use? I’d like to be convinced that they do work, but so far I’m skeptical…

[Oli-TUB]

Not really. What they do is delaying the pirated version. Every protection will be cracked sooner or later. Game developers even go that far to take out the protection in a patch later in the lifecycle of a game - I had that happen a few times. The thing is that the major 'damage' is done shortly after a product is released. So those ugly protection schemes work rather well because people who really want the product will go an buy it. People who don't care can download an illegal version months later.

No scheme was so far able to prevent that from happening. The good ones were able to delay a cracked copy for several months though and that's were the most money is earned anyway. So in a way it works.

However it's practically impossible to implement the "best" (or ugliest, depending on where you stand) protection schemes into a package that's "just" a few textures and landclass files. There is no executable or dll there that would call those schemes. With planes it works better like with the Level-D for example.

A major concern about those schemes is another. What happens when the company fades away or "goes into the sunset"? I've read from quite a few people that this is the ultimate concern, not the direct inconvenience. What happens then? You got a legitimate product that you can no longer use because the auth-servers are gone. Stuff like that. And that development teams can vanish rather quickly and silently can be seen with FlightScenery. So with so schemes it's basically a life-long (the life of the company) rental and that's a problem for a few (myself included) in these fast paced days.

[wantok]

Two months or so ago I posted my frustration here regarding this guy going by this alias "FSGAMER" who posted my software at piratebay and other torrent sites. I lost what could have been over 2000 (and still counting) customers to this thief. My second product amassed over 3000 leaches at these sites, again thanks to this guy. Well, now we have a name and face to go with his alias. Alain Robert, developer at Alro Creation was able to track him down.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Here is FSGAMER's email addresses:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
imrankhanhassan@yahoo.com
imrankhanhassan@gmail.com

Verified here by comparing the profils (photos):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32325274@N02/
http://www.flickr.com/people/32325274@N02/
http://suprbay.org/member.php?u=91860
http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showuser=24346<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
He is either living in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Sri Lanka</st1:place></st1:country-region> or merely using a host career (domain link) there for his piracy work.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Admin/mods take note as he sometimes logs in as Hassan Imran Khan at various sites.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Graham<o:p></o:p>

[Tweek]

It's just a protest closure for 24hours - not sure what purpose that should serve though.

I'm thinking much the same. Not sure how it'd deter pirates in any way...

[Z-PurpleBubble]

Two months or so ago I posted my frustration here regarding this guy going by this alias "FSGAMER" who posted my software at piratebay and other torrent sites. I lost what could have been over 2000 (and still counting) customers to this thief. My second product amassed over 3000 leaches at these sites, again thanks to this guy. Well, now we have a name and face to go with his alias. Alain Robert, developer at Alro Creation was able to track him down.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Here is FSGAMER's email addresses:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
imrankhanhassan@yahoo.com
imrankhanhassan@gmail.com

Verified here by comparing the profils (photos):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32325274@N02/
http://www.flickr.com/people/32325274@N02/
http://suprbay.org/member.php?u=91860
http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showuser=24346<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
He is either living in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Sri Lanka</st1:place></st1:country-region> or merely using a host career (domain link) there for his piracy work.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Admin/mods take note as he sometimes logs in as Hassan Imran Khan at various sites.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Graham<o:p></o:p>

Hey Wantok,

Why bother reporting pirates on SOH when nothing is done about it? Meshman and myself reported on this very thread that there is a pirate among us, and nothing happens... And this is not just anybody, it's the leader of WoS...

It's beyond me, it really is....

[wantok]

PurpleBubble, note that I am very carefull in what I write here and I am sure Admin amd Mod staff are as well. Unless I have anything concrete (my own conclusive verifiable investigation) to go by to accuse Ferguson, I'd refrain from becoming slanderous. Note that the same guy you guys keep touting about signed my logbook at my site here:

http://islandsim.com/19157.html?cc=0.6963971705412284&jump=2

I could have simply jumped the bandwagon with suspicion but just signing the log doesn't make him a thief of my products. Ferguson lives in Philedelphia for all I know as well as yourself, so if you have definite proof, pls call the FBI. The guy I exposed in my post above is. He's been thoroughly investigated (compared notes, followed links, checked whois via domain name, and more) by those of us in the background.

FSGAMER evidently stole my products so I am rightfully exposing him here.

Graham

[Henry]

PurpleBubble, note that I am very carefull in what I write here and I am sure Admin amd Mod staff are as well. Unless I have anything concrete (my own conclusive verifiable investigation) to go by to accuse Ferguson, I'd refrain from becoming slanderous. Note that the same guy you guys keep touting about signed my logbook at my site here:

http://islandsim.com/19157.html?cc=0.6963971705412284&jump=2

I could have simply jumped the bandwagon with suspicion but just signing the log doesn't make him a thief of my products. Ferguson lives in Philedelphia for all I know as well as yourself, so if you have definite proof, pls call the FBI. The guy I exposed in my post above is. He's been thoroughly investigated (compared notes, followed links, checked whois via domain name, and more) by those of us in the background.

FSGAMER evidently stole my products so I am rightfully exposing him here.

Graham
Thank you
yes we do watch and if someone wants to give me concrete evidence
please do, the last thing i want is a witch hunt
we could ban everyone with a name similar or resides in the same area
if anyone has a concrete ip let me have it
H

[JayKae]

I like the nay-sayers here, isn't it fact that if you do nothing, nothing will ever happen? If everyone just shrugs their shoulders and thinks 'Oh well' haven't we lost already?

This is one of my favourite sayings of my grandfather (I know he got it from someone but I cannot remember who):


'When they came for the feeble of mind, I did not say anything because I was not feeble of mind
When they came for the gypsies, I did not say anything, because I was not a gypsie
When they came for the Jews, I did not say anything because I wasn't a Jew
When they came for the Catholics, I did not say anything because I wasn't a Catholic
When they came for me, there was noone left to say anything'


I think you can catch the drift of that saying :)

[Z-PurpleBubble]

Thank you
yes we do watch and if someone wants to give me concrete evidence
please do, the last thing i want is a witch hunt
we could ban everyone with a name similar or resides in the same area
if anyone has a concrete ip let me have it
H

The concrete evidence of Mr. Fergusson's presence on these forums was given to you with the links to the flightsim.com forum thread. You only have to look at the screenshots therein and compare the content. You don't need to be a genius in TCPIP, just look at the similarities in the text.

Bottom line is, that the ringleader of the biggest FS warez site of the us and the World is a member of these forums and nothing is being done about it. On the flightsim.com forums he even admits all of this.

You can call me dumb but I don't get it...

[Henry]

The concrete evidence of Mr. Fergusson's presence on these forums was given to you with the links to the flightsim.com forum thread. You only have to look at the screenshots therein and compare the content. You don't need to be a genius in TCPIP, just look at the similarities in the text.

Bottom line is, that the ringleader of the biggest FS warez site of the us and the World is a member of these forums and nothing is being done about it. On the flightsim.com forums he even admits all of this.

You can call me dumb but I don't get it...
You have an IP?
maybe lessee another pirate Papa B
same initials as you
you realy want me to just ban people
just because they could be
sorry i need proof if you do not like that
Just do not come here
similarities are not proof
H

[Dangerousdave26]

Bottom line is, that the ringleader of the biggest FS warez site of the us and the World is a member of these forums and nothing is being done about it. On the flightsim.com forums he even admits all of this.

You can call me dumb but I don't get it...

PurpleBubble you are not dumb and I can see your passion but there is not enough evidence here to draw the conclusion that Person X on Flightsim.com is Person Y on the Sim-Outhouse. Even if the main admins of both the Sim-Outhouse and Flightsim.com got together to compare notes on the IPs that each of those users has been using it would still be dangerous ground to tread.

The Sim-Outhouse is made up of volunteers and not ready to lose their own possessions in a lawsuit that might come from someone being banned because they were assumed to be the admitted Pirate at another site. Somebody mentioned slander which can cost us our FS Forum.

I am sure alot of people know this but for those who don't...

You can not just ban an IP address it serves no purpose.

Most users on the Internet have what is called a dynamic IP which means it changes. Some times on a schedule some times because of inactivity.

If you ban the IP address a day later a legitimate member may have that IP. (yes i know they would have to be in the same subnet).

With out help from the ISP who owns the IP address you can not even use an IP as a reference point to say this person here is also this person over here. They would have to dredge up their logs that show who had what IP when and that would take a court order. They are not just going to give it up that would be a liability to them.

Henry's stance is correct with out real proof (an admission from the member on this site makes it easier) there is not much you can do.


As for the ORBX outage well I like JayKae's answer and its good enough for me.

Carry on

[QUOTE=JayKae;227968 so maybe our little effort means nothing but it makes us feel good about it at least :)[/QUOTE]

[papab]

You have an IP?
maybe lessee another pirate Papa B
same initials as you
you realy want me to just ban people
just because they could be
sorry i need proof if you do not like that
Just do not come here
similarities are not proof
H


Hey I am papab-
Henry-Why are you using my sign on with the word "priate"????

I am not never have been
Just a FSX user.....

Please explain yourself!!!!!!!

Rick

[olaf1924]

This thread is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. :isadizzy:

[Bjoern]

This thread is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. :isadizzy:

You're not the only one, mate.

Especially considering that fighting piracy is like a hydra. Small successes, but no difference in the big picture.
Piracy is something that comes with the benefits of the world wide web like the double vision that comes with your fifteenth beer.

[timest]

Bjoern

Off topic, in regards to your banner, I designed the logo for MAX (Mountain Air Xpress) in 1995. Originally launched by Western Pacific Airlines and Ed Beauvais :) Great memories!

Tim

[Henry]

Hey I am papab-
Henry-Why are you using my sign on with the word "priate"????

I am not never have been
Just a FSX user.....

Please explain yourself!!!!!!!

Rick
not your sign
but there is one with your name
thats my whole point
if i thought it was you you would not be here
anyone can use a name
lots of names are the same but they are different people
thats what i said about witch hunting
im not going on a witch hunt
actually i forgot that your name was registered here
or i would not have used it
H

[JamesChams]

Mr. Henry,

I'm glad that people like you run these servers... if it were left up to half of the others, we would definitely have another inquisition; with many innocent persons been burnt at the IP stake.:kilroy:

Punish the NON-repentant repeat offenders, Show Mercy to the ones who own up, and let the innocent go free! :wavey:

[martinatk]

I dont wish any body harm , but give these bast***s a dose of what I have,so they can think about other things for a while .....
what do I have ??? I didnt go bald for fun .:a1451:

[fswidow]

Hi,
I can understand some of the posters concerns about "legitimate customers" missing out by John's black out protest, I think those that are loyal to him and his business will understand what he has done.

Piracy needs to stop, and if 24hrs protest can bring it to others attention again, then all the better. Now to get it so its easier to stamp out through the government.

[Bjoern]

Off topic, in regards to your banner, I designed the logo for MAX (Mountain Air Xpress) in 1995. Originally launched by Western Pacific Airlines and Ed Beauvais :) Great memories!

One of the nicest liveries the 328 can (could) sport. Next to the US Airways livery a hot candidate for a "back then" livery included in the release of my 328 (ETA: 12/22/2012 *Chuckle*).

But they went bankrupt, didn't they?

[Z-PurpleBubble]

Well, in this way piracy will never stop because nobody has the b*lls to do anything about it.

We can just as well stop whining about it then and start grieving after all the devs go bankcrupt...

[n4gix]

This is one of my favourite sayings of my grandfather (I know he got it from someone but I cannot remember who):

Fr. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Lutheran pastor and theologian, written while imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp.

He was also a participant in the German Resistance (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/German_Resistance) movement against Nazism (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/Nazism), a founding member of the Confessing Church (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/Confessing_Church). His involvement in plans by members of the Abwehr (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/Abwehr) (the German Military Intelligence Office) to assassinate (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/Assassination) Adolf Hitler (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) resulted in his arrest in April 1943 and his subsequent execution by hanging in April 1945, shortly before the war's end. His view of Christianity's role in the secular world has become very influential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

[n4gix]

Somebody mentioned slander which can cost us our FS Forum.

The term is "libel" not "slander." Slander is spoken, something which one rarely encounters in a written forum... :ernae:

Aside from which there's no real danger. There's a very good reason why libel torts are referred to as "one's decade in court," since they tend to advance through the court system several orders of magnitude slower than glaciers... :pop4: