SOH...Civil Flight Center?

[Nausicaa]

Ok attention, reading this may give the impression I am somewhat ungrateful. Of course I am not. But I am a firm believer in the positive effects of wiping off some dust sometimes.

So this one crossed my mind today. When looking on the main screen of SOH I see there "SOH-Combat Flight Center".

Yet, when looking at the forums, there is another picture. Greatest activity in the forums: Flight Simulator X, threads at this day: 4,585, posts 67,557. This is followed by.... the Newshawks, threads 2,995, posts 26,870. Third in the line is not a combat flight simulator, but another civil flight sim, FS9, with 2,881 threads and 29,383 posts. Climbing the ladder further down we encounter after a while CFS3 and CFS2 with 1,809 and 2,323 threads. IL2, the only other combat flight simulator which is left on the forum menu, impresses with 124 posts and 758 threads. When looking for other combat flight sims the picture gets "zappenduster" (pitch dark) as we say in Germany: "Blackshark", the stellar nec plus ultra in Helicopter combat flight sims, forum support: zero. IL2 Birds of Prey, first sim ever on console, no forum (or subforum) in sight on the horizon. Storm of War, since a year or more already on SIMHQ, no board of discussion available to share everybodies impatience. BOBII, the moddable Battle of Britan sim with, as some say, the best offline campaign ever done, presence, zero. The brandnew "Rise of Flight", which many argue is the best WW1 sim in FM, damagemodelling and visuals, support equal none. And there are other, older sims I do not even mention.

So the question is: Did SOH wave goodbye to it's own "soul" somewhere in the last years? A slowly climbing member's age with a heavy 50+ average, and a growing preference for Cessna flying over Las Vegas airport seem to point into that direction. Yep, I told you I would wipe some dust, no need to take it badly.

Is it time to attract the youth back here to make some rock n'roll in the house with some of the brandnew stars on the sky of combat sims? Now it's still time to attract the players as their communities are just forming up. Or is it now: SOH....Civil Flight Center?

[Willy]

We've always had a FS forum, even back in the heyday of CFS 1. When Microsoft gave up on CFS and with the popularity of FS 2004, we started paying more attention to the Flight Simulator offerings and adding new forums for the FS series. Before that, we did add an IL2 forum due to member demand.

We haven't left the CFS series either. As far as I know we've got the only forum for CFS 1 still going and the only other forum I know of for CFS 2 recently went offline.

If there's enough demand for a forum for a new combat flight, we'll add one for it on a trial basis.

[Henry]

civil seems to be a good word
we do try to have civil conversations here
and a level of civility.
As far as forums go
actually we have 4 combat forums
and 3 flight forums (civil)
although most of the (civil) forums
are still mainly combat people
WW1 and WW2 and later airbases, aircraft etc etc
we go where our members go or need us to go,
out of the 4 combat sims there is only one still being made
the others are kept up by our members and are bringing new creations out
or still having fun,
and i guess with a 50+ age group
we should have a bridge forum:173go1:
or scrabble
just an observation
Bingo is at 8 PM every evening
H:icon_lol:

[PRB]

Combat Scrabble! I'm in!

[Willy]

Got to thinking about it... I've got this really nice payware Cessna 337 Skymaster that I hardly ever fly.. which way to Vegas? :icon_lol: :ernae:

[Wing_Z]

You're absolutely right, that's what happens to ageing combat flight simmers.
Hang up the goggles and helmet, reminisce, and go to Vegas.
Made worse that flight simming is a dying game.
It's understandable; by the time the baby boomers are all dead, real-world air combat will be waged from behind a computer screen, directing hordes of remotely piloted vehicles.
Where's the fun in simulating that? you may as well join up!

Still, you can see everyone's heart is still in the right place: every time I put up some video clips of an obsolete Japanese tubeliner in the FS2004 forum, it goes strangely, eerily, quiet...:kilroy:

[Wittpilot]

and a growing preference for Cessna flying over Las Vegas airport seem to point into that direction.



Wait, I thought Ken was not around anymore??

:monkies:

[Nausicaa]

Wait, I thought Ken was not around anymore??

:monkies:

Haha, that was actually no winkeye to Ken...but you are right, it could be seen as that. But it wasn't intended.

[Cloud9Gal]

civil seems to be a good word
we do try to have civil conversations here
and a level of civility.
As far as forums go
actually we have 4 combat forums
and 3 flight forums (civil)
although most of the (civil) forums
are still mainly combat people
WW1 and WW2 and later airbases, aircraft etc etc
we go where our members go or need us to go,
out of the 4 combat sims there is only one still being made
the others are kept up by our members and are bringing new creations out
or still having fun,
and i guess with a 50+ age group
we should have a bridge forum:173go1:
or scrabble
just an observation
Bingo is at 8 PM every evening
H:icon_lol:


LOL @ 8PM Bingo!!!

And just for the record, I vote for a Scrabble forum :applause:

[Nausicaa]

Made worse that flight simming is a dying game.

Actually it's not...that was the point I was trying to get across. On one hand a we have MS that bails out of the simming genre.....CFS3, now FS X. On the other hand we have a handful of young enthousiastic developpers that have put brilliant and promising sims on the market, often with great risk for their young companies (ROF, BoB:WoV, SoW:BoB). The simming genre has gotten incredibly and promising input recently from various sides. Blackshark, Rise of Flight are just some of them. Yet it's like MS - a company that has turned away from it's fans !! - has bought up SOH's eternal loyalty, given the space and importance this mega corporation gets on this forum...with a civilian flight sim.... while it is like the young, vibrant combat sim developpers don't even exist. When something happens, many will vow their loyalty and undying support for the "threatened niche genre" like it is often said. But what of the easiest support? The space to talk about something? That is why I don't buy into the "we follow our members" argument. It reminds me of the debate what came first, the egg or the chicken. Why is there a majority of members that are in FS09 or FSX? Because the other new sims have no place on SOH. Of course a new community will not exist under this circumstances. Easy to point to the status quo and make it responsible if you haven't done anything to modify it.
In the "old days ", SOH was a vibrant place of exchange in combat flight simming..I remember a time where I couldn't even type that fast, and I would already have 3 replies...for a new combat sim....CFS1, then CFS2, then the incredible and unique support for CFS3, while almost every other forum had declared it a deadborn child. There were already other sites dedicated to the civilian flight sims of MS. It's not like if the support to those was anything special, even back in the days. No, the support for combat flight simming was. SOH was very unique. Now, we get a fresh blow of incredible new combat sims, and SOH is sleeping like Snow White and the seven dwarfs. The vibrant, new, thrilling stuff is happening on the forums that have allowed those new fans and communities to have a place. Why is that?

[Lionheart]

I say we make our own Simulator and make a forum for it!

:d

And... On the kneeboard, an optional Scrabble gameboard which can be brought up, complete with click sounds...

:guinness:

[Henry]

it.
we get a fresh blow of incredible new combat sims, and SOH is sleeping like Snow White and the seven dwarfs. The vibrant, new, thrilling stuff is happening on the forums that have allowed those new fans and communities to have a place. Why is that?
because they do not come here or for that matter want to
look at the IL2 forum
no one, the new x plane forum gets more visitors
we could go to sleep completely and have new forums and no visitors
if you think we are wrong start a forum yourself
and let me eat my words
1 hr 45 mins to bingo
H

[Snuffy]

1 hr 45 mins to bingo
H

*grabs his marker and heads for the door!* Whoo hoo!! BINGO!

[Snuffy]

... if you think we are wrong start a forum yourself
and let me eat my words ...

H

Good advice H ...

[Henry]

another thought!:pop4:
cfs1-3 where extremely successful because of open architecture
so many people wanted to learn the hows, the whys
today the only open ones are the (civil) sims
and thats what we do teach and help
darn ill be late for bingo:running:
H

[Wittpilot]

We may not be "in touch" with our Combat Simulator origins, but what we have now is great.... We are all aviation enthusiasts here, and we each offer something a little different. We have a few that are really into models, virtual models, scenery making, video making, cars, computers, tinkering, for Panther it's cars, planes, payware, and exotic woman, *some say he's the whole package* and some of us like myself pick up the warbird contingent... We are truly a "community" here... and almost always usually play nice, which is more than I can say for any other forum.... and bless Ickie for keeping this place for us!

-witt

** the older folks are gonna have to explain this bingo thing to me, why are we all playing with the farmer's dog????:ernae:

[Silver Fox]

I think Bingo was a bad idea

The game gets cancelled everytime the caller yells B-52! Everybody runs ousude to look!!

Nausicaa... One quick question. Are you volunteering to give up your time to get these various other forums (fora?) going... or just 'observing'?

[harleyman]

I cheat at Bingo....:jump:

Heading out now...


B-52.. Now that was funny...LOL :applause:

[Nausicaa]

Huh? The civil ones are by far not the only open ones. :icon_lol: :monkies:
I think you need an update...!?

..and I had several forums already and was admin there, thanks.

Having a look now there were the future is happening :running: ciao...

[OBIO]

I have the best of both worlds.....Combat Flight Sim 2 and Flight Sim 2004. I can fly combat in a sim that is extremely open and very modifiable. I can fly civilly in a sim that is extremely open and very modifiable. In some cases, I can fly combat in a plane in CFS2, then switch to FS2004 and fly the same plane over much more interesting scenery just for the fun of flying that plane.

Has SOH/Combatfs.com forgotten its combat flight sim roots? Nope! A year or so ago, there was the server crash that wiped out all the posts and threads and all forums had to start back over from a clean slate. Comparing the stats for CFS2, FS2004 and FSX, it is clear that CFS2 has pretty much the same level of activity as FS2004 and not all that far behind FSX...and that given the fact that CFS2 is nearly 10 years old and in the minds of some, an antiquated and outmoded piece of software. But, I know that CFS2 has had some pretty amazing developments within the last couple of years that make it fresher and better than it has ever been.

OBIO

[Lionheart]

I think we could use a 'Rise of Flight' forum. That is one brilliant sim. There are alot of questions going on to help people through it and keep the forum busy. But I dont know how long an interest it would be.

I was one of the ones that thought X-Plane would be a total success as a seperate forum. It wasnt. I was so busy doing FS work that I just couldnt get myself fully into it. I am kind of embarrassed that I did now.

I have seen other forums have TONS of various forums that were for all these different addons and sims, like the India FS2004 room, the German 'something something scenery' room, etc. Perhaps 30+ forum rooms. But goodness, were they all being used? Managing such a huge site would be a bit astronomical.

But.... Thats my own humble opinion. Perhaps they had the man power to manage all of those.

I know when I have questions on something that we do not have a forum for, I'll post it in the FSX room. I dont care for FSX, but most of the people here now hang out in that room the most, so thats where I post alot of questions at, as the most people here hang out there.

Bill

[Henry]

was [/U]admin there, thanks.

Having a look now there were the future is happening :running: ciao...
isnt was a past pretence so where are you today?
my point we are still here
its like all those emails i get, one could be rich tomorrow
does tomorrow really come
H
i may be old
but i learned as i got older
i still have a lot to learn
and still learning
but you did not hear this from me
im not as stupid as i make out to be:guinness:
H

[middle]

Canasta anyone?:ernae:

[Snuffy]

So? How did ya do at Bingo last night H?

[wombat666]

.and I had several forums already and was admin there, thanks.
Having a look now there were the future is happening :running: ciao...

Don't let the door hit your bum on the way out ............:173go1:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Huh? The civil ones are by far not the only open ones. :icon_lol: :monkies:
I think you need an update...!?

..and I had several forums already and was admin there, thanks.

Having a look now there were the future is happening :running: ciao...

I feel like kikkin you, but i agree, too...

Lets open up an Il-2 modding forum?

[Willy]

Why not use the IL2 forum that gets little traffic?

[Lionheart]

So? How did ya do at Bingo last night H?

Yeah.. Did you win anything H?

[Willy]

The rascal got it all. I think the balls were loaded. :d

[Lionheart]

I think the Britonians are just naturals at Bingo.... Something in their blood.

:guinness:

[Henry]

I think the Britonians are just naturals at Bingo.... Something in their blood.

:guinness:
Hey we where taught Bingo in primary school
before math
some people count on there fingers
i use them for spelling
and bingo was his name o :engel016:
LOL
H

[srgalahad]

I had CFS 1, 2 &3 but lost interest once I found my way around them, and before they became moddable and supported by the outside world. I left the whole FS world for a couple of years because the hardware didn't meet my demands for FS performance ( too many years in the real aviation world).
By the time I got back, FS2004 was going strong and it suited my needs more than the combat sims and I wasn't interested in online gaming to expand the combat challenge.

By the time I found the outhouse I was entrenched in FS2004 and couldn't have found another hour free to devote to a second sim. Now, could I jump back into a CFS world or learn a new one? Nope.. and why would I? I fill too many hours already, have fallen into the online addiction without needing guns, have learned more in three or four years than ever before and most importantly - I fly the planes I like - with people I like.

To imply that the civvie types should wander off to a 'civilian sim site' almost get me reaching for my boots too.. in some degree they are 'newbie, wannabe, tubeliner' sites and that's not my world either. In reality, a Forum follows it's members, not the other way round, so if the CFS (etc.) groups are quiet or dying (not) that's just the nature of the beast. The new sims and their supporters have found their places, or have yet to band together. if they come here they will be welcome and supported. If they go elsewhere, then , if there is a need, go find them.

Rob

[Henry]

I had CFS 1, 2 &3 but lost interest once I found my way around them, and before they became moddable and supported by the outside world. I left the whole FS world for a couple of years because the hardware didn't meet my demands for FS performance ( too many years in the real aviation world).
By the time I got back, FS2004 was going strong and it suited my needs more than the combat sims and I wasn't interested in online gaming to expand the combat challenge.

By the time I found the outhouse I was entrenched in FS2004 and couldn't have found another hour free to devote to a second sim. Now, could I jump back into a CFS world or learn a new one? Nope.. and why would I? I fill too many hours already, have fallen into the online addiction without needing guns, have learned more in three or four years than ever before and most importantly - I fly the planes I like - with people I like.

To imply that the civvie types should wander off to a 'civilian sim site' almost get me reaching for my boots too.. in some degree they are 'newbie, wannabe, tubeliner' sites and that's not my world either. In reality, a Forum follows it's members, not the other way round, so if the CFS (etc.) groups are quiet or dying (not) that's just the nature of the beast. The new sims and their supporters have found their places, or have yet to band together. if they come here they will be welcome and supported. If they go elsewhere, then , if there is a need, go find them.

Rob
Thanks thats about the same as i feel
H

[Willy]

Rob pretty much summed up how I feel about CFS and FS now. One thing that I've learned from FS that I never got from CFS. FS has made me a better sim-pilot. In CFS it was always about the ACM. In FS it's about learning how to fly. In CFS it was always warping to get somewheres. In FS it's more about the trip getting there.

Thanks for starting this thread Nausicaa. Last night I dusted off that Cessna and flew it from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City using VOR and ADF navigation and thouroghly enjoyed the trip. Here in a few minutes, I'm going to take off from SLC heading east somewhere, probably in a Gee Bee and using older nav tools.

It's not so much the destination, but all about how you get there.

[dswo]

I discovered this forum a few years ago through Google. I never flew military planes; now, after hanging out with you, I do.

[b52bob]

*grabs his marker and heads for the door!* Whoo hoo!! BINGO!

Forgot your walker!

[txnetcop]

I think we could use a 'Rise of Flight' forum. That is one brilliant sim. There are alot of questions going on to help people through it and keep the forum busy. But I dont know how long an interest it would be.

I was one of the ones that thought X-Plane would be a total success as a seperate forum. It wasnt. I was so busy doing FS work that I just couldnt get myself fully into it. I am kind of embarrassed that I did now.

I have seen other forums have TONS of various forums that were for all these different addons and sims, like the India FS2004 room, the German 'something something scenery' room, etc. Perhaps 30+ forum rooms. But goodness, were they all being used? Managing such a huge site would be a bit astronomical.

But.... Thats my own humble opinion. Perhaps they had the man power to manage all of those.

I know when I have questions on something that we do not have a forum for, I'll post it in the FSX room. I dont care for FSX, but most of the people here now hang out in that room the most, so thats where I post alot of questions at, as the most people here hang out there.

Bill

Hey Bill I don't think it was wrong to want an X-Plane forum. I think we are all waiting for X-Plane to rethink their strategy and make the simulator more like FSX with all the AI traffic and more seasons. The forum at X-plane.org really sucks and they are just flat hostile over there to noobs. So it was natural to want something on our own home turf. I think the X-Plane forum will pick a bit after a while, but really there is plenty of life left in FSX.

Nausicaa I see where you are coming from but like Willy, Henry and others have said we have all of those combat forums on here. You can find almost everything you need in forums here. Even X-Plane offers limited combat. I used to be on every combat sim there was, especially my favorite Falcon 4.0 but after a while combat gets old and you just want to fly low and slow for a while. Maybe it is an age thing, but I doubt it. I still crawl into that F-16 cockpit of Falcon 4.0 and turn and burn once in while.
Ted

[Nausicaa]

isnt was a past pretence so where are you today?


Well "was" because it's a heavy workload. I know more about Ickie's fate than you think.


To imply that the civvie types should wander off to a 'civilian sim site'

hey...I never implied anybody should wander off. If I implied anything than that SOH should change it's name, lol. For the rest I think I was pretty much forward with the point of my post. It was about giving the fresh blood some place to be. No need for the others to leave or anything like that.

About CFS "dying a natural dead"...I think you misunderstood me. I already thought CFS was dead in 2005.


Nausicaa I see where you are coming from but like Willy, Henry and others have said we have all of those combat forums on here. You can find almost everything you need in forums here.


Nope, I am talking about the load of new combat sims out there, which are nothing less then brilliant. Lionheart seemingly understood that about RoF. The new sims do stuff we were DREAMING about back in the days. I do not understand the lack of enthousiasm and support. Having hoped SoW:BoB would find a thousandfold deserved forum on SOH, I must bury that hope today, seeing Rise of Flight doesn't get it -- a sim a modder community busted their asses for and prolly put their savings and those of their wifes and grandparents and who knows else on the line for. They finished that sim crawling on their limbs. I think many people here didn't really understand that. I do not only hope ANYBODY calling himself a true fan of the genre gets a copy, and be it only for support, I hoped the easist support would be a forum. It's clear now that will not happen, but the thought it won't happen for SoW:BoB either is unbearable for me. Ok I think it's a dead horse on SOH, so no point in further beating it, but I just wanted to straighten out some things. If SOH wants to go down the - mostly civilian - flightsimming path with sims that have no support anymore from their developpers (X plane as only one excluded from the list) then it's the choice of the management...just please don't tell me it's the choice of the fans. Other forums are buzzing with activity for Rise of Flight, Blackshark, LockOn, Targetware, BoB:WoV, SoW:BoB, IL2:BoP, IL2 1946 modded/unmodded and others. That's all from me on the subject.