A Dedication to Juan Pablo Montoya

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

x_wLVCLPx0M

No speeding Juan!

At least this time the right Hendrick driver won.

-Ed-

[smoores]

or at least Nascar SAID he was speeding...

[Panther_99FS]

According to these times, Jimmie Johnson & Tony Stewart were speeding but both weren't black-flagged...

Montoya = (Pit Time)14.60/(Pit Road Speed)44.40
Johnson = 15.20/45.10
Stewart = 15.20/46.90


Can you say "Hmmm......."

[EasyEd]

Hey All,


According to these times, Jimmie Johnson & Tony Stewart were speeding but both weren't black-flagged...

Montoya = (Pit Time)14.60/(Pit Road Speed)44.40
Johnson = 15.20/45.10
Stewart = 15.20/46.90


Can you say "Hmmm......."

I've no idea what these numbers are, what they represent or where they came from. So...

During the race JPM was apparently recorded as speeding in two segments on pit road. Sabbates said if the data support this then he was speeding. I suspect the data do.

That Jimmy and Tony's numbers were higher don't mean they were speeding as I suspect the numbers you show are averages. Averages don't apparently matter to NASCAR only the absolute numbers between segments. NASCAR's choice not the driver's. So hmmmm...

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Oh well, one thing for sure, Montoya has established himself as the #1 driver of the team, (which is un-expected since everyone thought Martin Truex Jr. would've been)

[JT8D-9A]

http://twitter.com/JPmontoya :d

[redriver6]

At least this time the right Hendrick driver won.

oh good...Mark Martin won then...i didn't see the race:kilroy:

[Cazzie]

Been at Kure Beach, didn't see the race and glad I didn't. Indy is the most boring NA$CAR race there is, follow the leader.

Of course, it figures that NA$CAR would favor a Hendricks car, so the penalty to JP would be expected.

Got my computer back today, but all is not hunky-dory. Gonna go back tomorrow with a gun and have CompUSA (Tiger Direst) fix it or go to jail!

Caz, madder than a wet hen right now and tired to boot, best not stay online tonight, I am in an expletive mood.

[Panther_99FS]

A bit of insider information direct from Robin Miller:

"My pals who work in NASCAR say the crew likely calibrated Juan's pit speed too close and it only takes hitting a bump or tire growth or something small to send it over that limit. It wasn't Montoya's fault, they say"

[PRB]

I thought the driver was supposed to note the RPM at which the pace car is moving during the "parade laps" so that he knows how fast he can go. That and the +/- 5 MPH that NASCAR allows... So how then can the crew "calibrate his pit speed too closely"? What, exactly, would that mean?

[redriver6]

they do a pass through the pits with the pace car going exactly 55mph before the race starts and the drivers are supposed to use that to note the rpm.........maybe they should just start putting speedometers in the cars?

[Cazzie]

they do a pass through the pits with the pace car going exactly 55mph before the race starts and the drivers are supposed to use that to note the rpm.........maybe they should just start putting speedometers in the cars?

Digital speedometers, no way could analogue be trusted. :icon_lol:

Maybe they should have Officer Barney clock them. No, wait a minute, that's what they already do! NA$CAR rules have become so, for the lack of a good word, doofus!

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

So how then can the crew "calibrate his pit speed too closely"? What, exactly, would that mean?

PRB,
Here's a good read on the subject matter...
--> http://stockcarscience.com/blog/index.php?cat=22

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Good explanation on that site. Bottom line Juan Pablo was speeding he got caught and was rightly penalized. Either Juan doesn't have as good a toe control as other drivers or his team is trying to cut it too close. Take your pick? Jimmy's and most other teams have it right though.

-Ed

[Panther_99FS]

his team is trying to cut it too close. Take your pick? Jimmy's and most other teams have it right though.

-Ed

And I always said Montoya wasn't on a good team....;)

Funny how Montoya is on a weaker team than Dale Jr., yet Montoya is ahead of Dale Jr in points ...(Perhaps Hendrick should drop Jr. & pick-up Montoya) :d

[PRB]

Interesting web site, P., thanks!

Maybe they should, during practice on Friday, hook up a speedometer, just for the purpose of determining, exactly, what the tacometer reading is when going exactly at pit road speed. Seems that would eliminate all the drive train gear ratio gonculation errors.

Of course this wouldn't help in the slightest though, because WPM was just a teeny weeny bit over the limit, and this will always happen, even if the cars have speedometers in them, or even if they use F-22 GPS aided inertial measuement units to tell them the feet per second the car is moving!

[stansdds]

I continue to say that Jr.'s days with Hendrick are numbered if he can't be reasonably consistent in the top 10 and this season is rapidly coming to a close. He has had three top 10 finishes this year and in most of the races he finishes worse than where he qualified. That's not good.

As for pit road speeding, the article points out a key problem in maintaining a safe pit road speed: the tach is graduated in 100's. That's just not enough precision when you are trying to run at the maximum allowable speed, but not exceed it by even 0.1 mph. Either a more precise device must be installed in the cars or drivers and teams need to simply not push it to the maximum.

[PRB]

Ok, I have an idea. If there's going to be a speed limit on pit road, then the cars ought to be equipped with a speedometer for pit road. One provided by NASCAR, of course, since it's thier rule. One that displays the digital speed in big GREEN numbers when below pit road speed, YELLOW when at or over, but below the 5 MPH buffer, and RED when you're busted. It wouldn't stop drivers from speeding on pit road (nothing will), but it would reduce the whining and moaning about "but I wasn't speeding and NASCAR just wants a Hendrick car to win!" :d

[PRB]

... As for pit road speeding, the article points out a key problem in maintaining a safe pit road speed: the tach is graduated in 100's. That's just not enough precision when you are trying to run at the maximum allowable speed, but not exceed it by even 0.1 mph. Either a more precise device must be installed in the cars or drivers and teams need to simply not push it to the maximum.

I thought the author was making the point that the tac, if read in increments of 50 RPM (between the lines) gives you 0.60 MPH differences, which is more accurate than a speedometer would be, so therefore they don't need speedometers. Not sure I buy into that, but I thought that was his point.

[Panther_99FS]

Interesting quote by Chad Knaus about NASCAR not having pit road speeds as freely available...

"Even one of the chief beneficiaries of that ruling, Indy-winning crew chief Chad Knaus, said he’d like to see the data made readily available, if for no other reason than to help him accurately calculate his driver’s speed on pit road. NASCAR cars don’t have speedometers, so the critical speed calculations wind up being a calculated guess.....We push Jimmie to go as fast as he can on pit road."

--> http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/cup-make-pit-road-speeds-public/

[PRB]

This seems ridiculous. They are held to a rule, get penalized if they break it, but are not allowed a precise tool to let them know if they are within it. I was watching the Trackside show on Friday, and MacReynolds said they don’t even use the pace car method anymore to set the pit road speed. It’s 100% done by the engineers crunching gear ratio numbers. So the driver is pretty much out of the equation. They tell him to go until you see yellow lights on the tac (in the correct gear) and he has to hope the number crunchers got it right. I agree with Knauss, transmit the real time data to the pit crews so they can yell at their driver to speed up or slow down on pit road. Would be better to just send it to the cars so the drivers have something to go on besides a “calculated guess.”

[wombat666]

This seems ridiculous. They are held to a rule, get penalized if they break it, but are not allowed a precise tool to let them know if they are within it. I was watching the Trackside show on Friday, and MacReynolds said they don’t even use the pace car method anymore to set the pit road speed. It’s 100% done by the engineers crunching gear ratio numbers. So the driver is pretty much out of the equation. They tell him to go until you see yellow lights on the tac (in the correct gear) and he has to hope the number crunchers got it right. I agree with Knauss, transmit the real time data to the pit crews so they can yell at their driver to speed up or slow down on pit road. Would be better to just send it to the cars so the drivers have something to go on besides a “calculated guess.”

Simple solution, a mandatory pit speed limiter.
I'd even suggest one supplied by NASCAR from a common pool, but they'd stuff that up!
:isadizzy:

[Panther_99FS]

This seems ridiculous. They are held to a rule, get penalized if they break it, but are not allowed a precise tool to let them know if they are within it. I was watching the Trackside show on Friday, and MacReynolds said they don’t even use the pace car method anymore to set the pit road speed. It’s 100% done by the engineers crunching gear ratio numbers. So the driver is pretty much out of the equation. They tell him to go until you see yellow lights on the tac (in the correct gear) and he has to hope the number crunchers got it right. I agree with Knauss, transmit the real time data to the pit crews so they can yell at their driver to speed up or slow down on pit road. Would be better to just send it to the cars so the drivers have something to go on besides a “calculated guess.”<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

You wont' get a debate from me on this one......(perhaps maybe from EasyEd though ;) )

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

What is there to argue with? Maybe crews on pit road need to do their own timing to figure out what the tach needs to say - maybe as a part of practice practice how to drive on pit road. Then therre is of course the disparity between NASCAR's exact timings in multiple segments on pit road and the crudeness (in terms of exactness) of the tach in a car but I suspect with no evidence that NASCAR might like it that way. It adds more excitement of the unknown - one second or two on pit road with an errant toe can cost you a race. And hey really is controversy really that bad? - people are talking and maybe more will be tuning into the next race. Who knows - be interesting to see how this plays out.

-Ed-