'Why Film Still Wins Over Digital SLRs'

[Panther_99FS]

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.html


http://mobile.boston.com/siteserver/site?sid=boston&pid=JuicerHub&targetURL=http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/07/remembering_apollo_11.html

[Kiwikat]

Because they didn't have DSLR's 40 years ago on the moon? :kilroy:

[Panther_99FS]

No
But I need to refer you to the Nikon DSLR forum that I belong to where even professional DSLR photographers admit to the quality of film :)

[Kiwikat]

I've heard many professional photographers say they prefer film because of the brilliant colors and contrast it produces vs digital. That seems to be about it though from what I've read.

I'm real happy to be shooting digital. Just through my learning in the last couple weeks, I would have wasted hundreds of dollars of film. Digital is a much cheaper and more available medium. It is also more useful than film ever was. I still think digital takes the cake because of its availability and versatility. :medals:

[stansdds]

I think film is probably still best for those who know how to really use it and get the most out of it. For the rest of us, digital is fine.

[Snuffy]

I very much like the quality of film also ... some of the best reasons I can express for saying that is the film Saving private Ryan.

The smoothness of panning in film is horrifically missing in the digital version of that movie. Also with the visuals of the explosions. In the digital format the movie seems jumpy.

Sorry, ditigal might work better for stills, but for movies I still perfer film.

[Cratermaker]

Are we sure about this? Even when post processing pictures in RAW format? I will agree that the camera's rendition to .JPG can be flawed.

Oh and I should add that for film to really shine, you have to either develop them yourselves or find a quality lab to do it.

[Donald Traill]

Well suppose your grandchildren find one of the memory cards from your digital camera. What are the chances the format today's pics are saved in will be readable by their computer?

Donald

[Panther_99FS]

Are we sure about this? Even when post processing pictures in RAW format?

Yep - even over RAW format...:)

[Moparmike]

There is still a distinct need for film cameras. As for the "which is better quality" argument, I will stay out of it as I see advantages to both and my eye isn't good enough to be able to nitpick that finely. :kilroy:

I still prefer film for B&W. I haven't found a conversion workflow yet that can duplicate APX out of a film camera with a digital shot...just something about how that film translates color into greyscale that I like.

When it comes to color...well, I'm pretty much a digital convert. Haven't bought any color film in a few years now.

[Moparmike]

Oh and I should add that for film to really shine, you have to either develop them yourselves or find a quality lab to do it.

The same applies to getting digitals printed too. Good digital prints rely on good hardware just as much as good film shots do.

[TeaSea]

This is an interesting discussion, and I think the point about media formats and what folks will be able to read quite topical. One of the problems with the NASA video's was that the equipment used to shoot and playback the video was no longer available. This was discovered when some original tapes found in facilities in Australia could not be viewed. It took some time for NASA to lay it's hands on equipment old enough to play back the tapes (ironically, the walk on the moon shots are all transmitted digital images-- who knew?). When these tapes finally viewed it was found that they did not contain any footage of the moon missions.

However, that tape sent NASA in a tizzy looking for the originals. While they think that they were most likely taped over, there is still a slim chance they may be out there somewhere....hope we have a playback unit that can decipher them if they are found.

The black and white video of the walk on the moon that the world saw is actually a recording made off a camera pointed at the monitor in Australia (which happened to be in the footprint during the walk). It was the feed to this monitor being recorded on tape that NASA would like to find. Supposedly the images on the monitor itself were incredible.

As to quality of (analog vs. digital)...a friend of mine still owns a reel to reel deck with his original tapes from the 60's and 70's. These are cantankerous machines, and the tape is a mess; you have to manage the hiss through inadequate dolby technology, you can't find a particular piece of music, and the tapes take up a lot of space, gets brittle, and occasionally shoots off the reels in a fit of spite.

That being said, the fidelity from these old tapes is far superior to anything I've heard digitally. I have a CD of the Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto Verve session recorded in 1963 (this is the recording that produced "The Girl from Ipenema"). It is excellent. My friend has the original in reel to reel tape format. It is absolutely incredible. Gilberto's wife, Astrud, was in the studio, and you can actually hear her breathing in the background (She eventually did the vocals for part of the album, at Getz's suggestion).

Of course I can't fit that reel to reel deck in the dashboard of my car.

[Panther_99FS]

No
But I need to refer you to the Nikon DSLR forum that I belong to where even professional DSLR photographers admit to the quality of film :)

This particular subject started when one of the forum members posed a question debating whether or not he should get a Nikon D700 or a Medium-Format Film System. In this case, the member asked about the Hasselblad 500C (http://www.hasselblad.com/about-hasselblad/hasselblad-in-space/space-cameras.aspx) (click on "Hasselblad 500c" for some very interesting information) :)

[Panther_99FS]

Then again,
For $30,000 USD, you can get this one --> http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h3dii-50.aspx :d

[TeaSea]

Oops, sorry, took the thread off track....

[kilo delta]

I think I'll stick with my Nikon D300 for now....though the D700 does seem tempting:bump:

[Panther_99FS]

I think I'll stick with my Nikon D300 for now

That's a real nice piece of machinery...:ernae:

[Kiwikat]

Time for avatar wars... :icon_lol:

[Panther_99FS]

Kiwikat,
Canons definitely outnumber Nikons, but I consider this analagous to Nissans outnumbering Ferraris' :bump:

[Kiwikat]

Kiwikat,
Canons definitely outnumber Nikons, but I consider this analagous to Nissans outnumbering Ferraris' :bump:

:ernae:

It is cool there is some talk of photography here now. I've always thought it goes hand in hand with aviation.

I wonder if there'd be enough interest to make a subforum for photography talk and pics from airshows and whatever else people want to share etc.

:running: to get my friend's 400 L to point at Panther :naturesm:

[Henry]

Kiwikat,
Canons definitely outnumber Nikons, but I consider this analagous to Nissans outnumbering Ferraris' :bump:
There is also a Marketing reason why there are more
Canons its a lot harder for a seller to get Nikons
and there lenses.
Id defy anyone to tell the difference
between the same quality lens and megapixel
myself i prefer Olympus
thats just individual taste.
the main problem today is getting pictures
on a good quality hard copy print
most people do not get hard copys
once you view them on the screen
H

[bushpilot]

I'm a professional photographer (freelance) and all I can say is that film is history. Yes it offers still better quality, but the difference between digital and 35mm film is marginal. The real difference in quality comes when you shoot on the larger film formats, which have outstanding dynamic range and resolution.

That being said digital is just way too more economical, ecological and fast compared to film. With digital I can have the photos on the client minutes after the shoot from half-way across the globe. Now that is something that film cannot beat:running:! Plus If I develop my own RAW images I can have full control over the process.

I still shoot on the film (mostly B&W) as a hobby, but would never ever consider doing that in my profession.

[Cratermaker]

Kiwikat,
Canons definitely outnumber Nikons, but I consider this analagous to Nissans outnumbering Ferraris' :bump:
Now now, that's silly. I've seen Canon and Nikon playing leapfrog with each other with almost every release. Any read through the (non-partisan) review sites will reveal this.

As for someone who is just starting out, the obvious choice is clear (and this is why I have a Canon): get what your friends and family have for interchangeability! (as long as you like them... )

[Henry]

That being said digital is just way too more economical, ecological and fast compared to film. With digital I can have the photos on the client minutes after the shoot from half-way across the globe. Now that is something that film cannot beat:running:! Plus If I develop my own RAW images I can have full control over the process.



I definitely agree, when you do a shoot you know exactly
what you have, no waiting to see and have to re shoot
Memory is cheap and can be used over and over
that is the reason why digital photography
will win.
actually as far as B&W goes
i would still use digital no dust on negatives
i can burn and dodge in photoshop
no wasted paper, i prefer the look of a silver halide
print but its more convenient
H

[Panther_99FS]

There is also a Marketing reason why there are more
Canons its a lot harder for a seller to get Nikons
and there lenses.
Id defy anyone to tell the difference
between the same quality lens and megapixel
myself i prefer Olympus
thats just individual taste.
the main problem today is getting pictures
on a good quality hard copy print
most people do not get hard copys
once you view them on the screen
H

Quite true Henry. Canon very aggressively pursued the news arenas offering journalist photographers huge discounts to purchase Canon gear....

[Panther_99FS]

Now now, that's silly. I've seen Canon and Nikon playing leapfrog with each other with almost every release.

Ask Best Buy which they sell more of.....

That being said, referencing my earlier post & Henry's, Canon definitely does more aggressive marketing in journalism compared to Nikon...

[Panther_99FS]

Addendum:

We can roll back the clock to the 70's when Canon began aggressive marketing with their AE-1

[Panther_99FS]

That being said....
Ferrari doesn't have to aggressively market their cars.....:bump: :d

[Kiwikat]

I've seen Canon and Nikon playing leapfrog with each other with almost every release. Any read through the (non-partisan) review sites will reveal this.

Even some of the partisan sites accept this fact. The canon forum I frequent pretty much accepts that Nikon is slightly better right now. However, that wasn't the truth the last 5 years or so.

Canon needs to stop playing the megapixel game and get its head back where it belongs. I wouldn't care if I ever owned a camera with more megapixels than my XSi. However, I will want to upgrade to one with better AF, faster burst, and significantly better build quality. Nikon has them beat with the AF and quality right now, but I'm not sure about burst speeds.

[Panther_99FS]

All joking aside though :icon_lol:,
As jmig stated in a previous thread, whether Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Canon,.....the main thing is to just shoot & have fun! :guinness:

[Henry]

the main thing is to just shoot & have fun! :guinness:
You got it!
a few well actually many years ago
i used to work in downtown London
i went to the photographers Gallery almost daily
on of the best exhibitions i ever saw
was created with a disposable camera
the images were not sharp cos it was a cheap camera
but the images were excellent
all down to the eye
it aint what you got its how you use it:icon_lol:
that counts
H

[bushpilot]

Yeah, if you shoot crappy photos all the time, don't go blaming the camera maker, whether it's Nikon, Canon or whatever . The culprit usually is much closer LOL:icon29:.

[redriver6]

Kiwikat,
Canons definitely outnumber Nikons, but I consider this analagous to Nissans outnumbering Ferraris' :bump:

hmmmm..just a little bit of slr superiority syndrome there P?:icon_lol:

[Kiwikat]

LOL another camera avatar. This is getting interesting. :monkies:

So was my idea for a photography/pictures area on the forum stupid? :P :kilroy:

[redriver6]

LOL another camera avatar. This is getting interesting. :monkies:

So was my idea for a photography/pictures area on the forum stupid? :P :kilroy:

naw..i think its a good idea...i've often thought that photography forum would be intresting:ernae:

[Henry]

naw..i think its a good idea...i've often thought that photography forum would be intresting:ernae:
me also
H

[Helldiver]

Look, I've got the best camera ever made, a Minolta 120 SLR and it takes cracker- jack pictures. No fiddling with it. Just point it and shoot. You can't ask anything better that that. But they no longer sell 120 film and even if they did, you couldn't develop it.

[Naismith]

Is it time for me maybe to upgrade from my Box Brownie then?
:jump:

[Panther_99FS]

hmmmm..just a little bit of slr superiority syndrome there P?:icon_lol:

:bump: :d :d :engel016:

[Panther_99FS]

the main thing is to just shoot & have fun! :guinness:

Just did this today - I still suck :icon_lol: but I think I'm getting better.....:kilroy:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3737051682_e132c0f0f4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2522/3737064086_61ceab4797_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3737072158_88944dc134_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3737087524_4596cec5af_b.jpg

[Willy]

Good shots P!

Mrs Willy took this one of my horse a couple of months ago with her little Fuji digital...

[Kiwikat]

Just did this today - I still suck :icon_lol: but I think I'm getting better.....:kilroy:

Cool shots Panther! I really like the train tracks. I should have probably gone to the car show today to take pics, but I decided I was too lazy.

I'll get some pics from yesterday up tonight sometime.

We should really get a separate subforum! :kilroy:

[Panther_99FS]

That's a darn nice camera that Mrs. Willy has. Definitely better than your standard point-&-shoot cameras (as you can tell with the clarity in her shot)& with some DSLR features (Oh and, nice horse-ee) :wiggle:

[Wing_Z]

Panther you took a good train track picture...isn't it amazing how you start looking at stuff again when you have a new phototoy?
The first Police picture is also pretty "telling" - what is that tricycle thing, a Segway with training wheels??

There are plenty of closet photographers here, I'd support a photo forum too.

[Kiwikat]

Here's a couple from my visit to a local nature center.

I'm still not happy with the green. Back into photoshop...
Actually I think I am going to start over with this one. Gotta love RAW. :kilroy:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3496/3737264606_90a33b77db_o.jpg

Here's a true flying machine! It don't need no stinkin' propeller.:engel016:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3504/3737263586_d4b03eda03_o.jpg

[Panther_99FS]

isn't it amazing how you start looking at stuff again when you have a new phototoy?


You'll get no argument from me on this - oftentimes, I have my gear in the car with me in case I run into "a shot"....

[Panther_99FS]

Nice bee Kiwikat :mixedsmi:

[Cratermaker]

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/Cratermaker_photos/IMG_1695.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/Cratermaker_photos/IMG_1839.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/Cratermaker_photos/IMG_0753c.jpg

[Kiwikat]

REALLY cool shots Cratermaker!!! :medals:

I wish they had EXIF data though...:173go1:

[Cratermaker]

You mean this stuff?

File Name IMG_1695.JPG
Camera Model Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XSi
Firmware Firmware Version 1.0.9
Shooting Date/Time 7/4/2009 9:24:23 PM
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 2
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
ISO Speed 100
Lens EF-S10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
Focal Length 14.0mm
Image Size 1024x683
Image Quality Fine
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode Manual focusing
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB v1.31 (Canon)
Long exposure noise reduction 0:Off
High ISO speed noise reduction 0:Off
Highlight tone priority 0:Disable
File Size 405KB
Drive Mode Continuous shooting

[Kiwikat]

Woops, only the last one didn't have EXIF... :redface:

[Cratermaker]

Here it is.... it's the same file. I added the 'c' on the end when resizing it. You will notice some info missing or not making sense for this one. That's because the camera body was connected to a small telescope, not a lens!

File Name IMG_0753.JPG
Camera Model Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XSi
Firmware Firmware Version 1.0.9
Shooting Date/Time 1/1/2009 8:02:21 PM
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 30
Av( Aperture Value ) 0.0
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
ISO Speed 800
Image Size 4272x2848
Image Quality Fine
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode Manual focusing
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Long exposure noise reduction 2:On
High ISO speed noise reduction 0:Off
Highlight tone priority 0:Disable
File Size 3787KB
Dust Delete Data No
Drive Mode Self-Timer Operation

[Kiwikat]

Here it is.... it's the same file. I added the 'c' on the end when resizing it. You will notice some info missing or not making sense for this one. That's because the camera body was connected to a small telescope, not a lens!

Tv( Shutter Speed ) 30


Wow, 30 seconds!? :isadizzy:

Must have a really stable tripod/telescope mount. Even taking a 5+ second exposure with my cheap tripod causes blur...

That is really cool that you can hook it up to a telescope though.

[Cratermaker]

Wow, 30 seconds!? :isadizzy:

Must have a really stable tripod/telescope mount. Even taking a 5+ second exposure with my cheap tripod causes blur...

That is really cool that you can hook it up to a telescope though.
The limiting factor of my set up is how well the motors matching the rotation of the earth on the scope can handle the extra weight of the camera. If there was no tracking, all those stars would be streaked.

[Kiwikat]

I see many of our pics are disappearing? What's happening? :kilroy:

[Panther_99FS]

Nice fireworks captures Cratermaker! :applause: