'Someone Please Tell Me......'

[Panther_99FS]

Is there a full moon out tonight?
Are increased solar flares happening?

Jokes aside, is there another forum that has more high visibility payware & freeware designers that openly communicate with the simming populace than Sim-Outhouse?

Let's think's about this here....

Mathijs from Aerosoft
Ron from RealAir
Piglet
Milton Shupe
Dino Cattalino
Various from AlphaSim
Various from FSD
"Ace" Jerry Beckwith (multiple companies flight dynamics designer)
Michael Carr
Bill Womack
Francois Dumas
MILVIZ
Mike Cyul
Paul Clawson
SkyUnlimited
Air2Air Simulations
Aeroplane Heaven
JD Ahaenans

And various others that I've failed to mention......

I'd like to think that they actively participate here for not only enjoyment, but they also feel comfortable...

Let's not ruin that...

[VFR Alexander]

*coughCattaneocough*


Not only the amount of devs, but the amount of people that visit daily are much higher than other FS forums.

[Panther_99FS]

*coughCattaneocough*


.

Sorry about the spelling....:redface:

[Sideshow]

I alluded to this in one of my other posts. Hopefully things settle down a bit. I for one think the vast majority of developers do an exceptional job and are the only reason I have stuck with FSX for this long.

[RyanJames170]

i don't know why peeps are so up tight. it seems to be a lot off small stuff adding up though... my opnion is peeps need to chill
developers need to take criticism weather it is constructive or destructive.. let the moderators deal with the person of there acting like an jerk. and same goes for those who are getting bashed by developers (not saying its happening here) if its like an hay i dont agree with you just move on unless you have some hard evidence to back your self up better yet before you post make sure you have your ducks lined up. now if there being an total jerk tell them they are and leave it at that or better yet just PM an moderator and let them take action.

i don't like when peeps fight and i don't like when developers get cocky and start bashing costumers and other developers its horse crap and an good way to lose costumers. nore do i like peeps who like to complain about stuff or just start crap.

there are an lot off good people here but its seems we may have few rotten eggs starting to show witch i hope is not the case

my .02 anyway
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Panther_99FS]

Adding to list:

Lionheart
RAZBAM...

[Panther_99FS]

Adding:

David Bryce...

[Kiwikat]

I think Dan deserves to be on the list too. :medals:

[Cactuskid]

Let's not forget Robert (N2056) and all the guys at Eaglesoft!

[mike_cyul]

Hey it's not Mike Cyul! CYUL is just where I'm from originally! :bump::173go1:


I know, I know, my real last name is impossible to spell, remember or pronounce ....:engel016:

Mike

[RyanJames170]

I think Dan deserves to be on the list too. :medals:


Let's not forget Robert (N2056) and all the guys at Eaglesoft!

Ditto as my friend would "i agree 100% with this"
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Kiwikat]

Hey it's not Mike Cyul! CYUL is just where I'm from originally! :bump::173go1:

ROFL that is funny... :icon_lol:

Gotta try to make some humor out of all this...

[Panther_99FS]

Apologies Mike....

Thanks to you others who have helped fill in the list....

[Rezabrya]

I feel like I need to say it even though it prolly goes without saying. I understand why certain devs would be inclined to leave this site after tonight but I beg you guys to reconsider. The actions of certain people do not speak for the whole community. I only got into simming about a year ago but I have enjoyed coming to the Outhouse to learn about the hobby and also to be a spot to learn about new releases. If there is a plane I am waiting for I usually come here before I actually go to their site! I really feel bad about certain people's actions tonight that are causing people to leave but it is understood if you feel like you have to. I just want all the devs out there that are considering leaving to reconsider. It will hopefully get better before it gets worse. the Outhouse is on fire guys...now where are those extinguishers?

[djscoo]

Hey it's not Mike Cyul! CYUL is just where I'm from originally! :bump::173go1:


I know, I know, my real last name is impossible to spell, remember or pronounce ....:engel016:

Mike

Well that would be a pretty "Cyul" last name to have. i know, i know (I smiled when I thought it up two seconds ago...):running:

[tigisfat]

Wow, there is something in the air tonight around the world. All these people supposedly quitting the website? We've seen these spats and the fallout before, but not all these threads in such abundance announcing departures.

[piperarcherpilot]

Not to fire anything back up again, but...in a generalized nutshell...what sort of thing happened to prompt this?

[Panther_99FS]

It will hopefully get better before it gets worse. the Outhouse is on fire guys...now where are those extinguishers?

The most difficult part about being a moderator is that it's 100% impossible to satisfy 100% of the people....

[Rezabrya]

Oh I hear you Panther. I myself have been a moderator for a site with 40,000 plus members. It is a full time job for sure. I understand the stress that has been put on you tonight and I have felt it before. I wish you luck with this whole disaster. It looks like you have taken the proper actions on the offenders...

[deathfromafar]

The most difficult part about being a moderator is that it's 100% impossible to satisfy 100% of the people....



That kind of sought perfection is an impossibility Panther. Not worth beating your head over. Tomorrow is another day and hopefully it'll be a better one.

[Panther_99FS]

Thanks Raptor...

What makes the situation more challenging is that the general forum populace never sees the big/complete picture. They don't see the PM traffic that staff see, they don't see other off-line discussions. & Then what happens is that the general forum populace develops a skewed view of the situation...

But then with your experience, I'm sure you already know this....:bump:

[Rezabrya]

You make a great point there Panther. In the heat of the moment people fail to see the big picture. I'm sure many people would have liked to see the problem resolved more quickly but the problem with that is that you can't ban somebody without giving them due warnings. It got heated and people generally fail to think very hard when the goings get rough. The best advice I can give on an online forum is to think before you post. Take a minute after you decide to post to plan what you are going to say (and cool down if necessary!) The staff on this forum did a great job in dealing with the problems tonight but as you said in an earlier post Panther, it was too late. People's feeling were already hurt. I am sorry that some of you developers had to leave but I understand completely. We will pull through this guys...mark my words!:wavey:

[Marvin Carter]

And the Scenery people too!!!

[piperarcherpilot]

The best advice I can give on an online forum is to think before you post.

That is excellent advice, for forums, email, IM's, PM's...etc. Its hard enough to infer someone's disposition with text alone. Smilies help, but dont solve the problem. And when things get heated its far too easy to just hit the submit button.

Interesting side note: I remember recently hearing that Google (I think) was playing around with implementing a delay (that you can switch off if you prefer) in its email service for sending mail. It would hold the message for a predetermined time before sending it.

I always try to abide by that old saying...if you wouldnt say it to someone's face, dont type it.

[Lionheart]

I hate to see it when negativism makes its way in.. We need to all take a chill pill (or glass of grapes) and relax. Endure the night. We'll make it.


Steady on, damn the torpedoes...


:guinness:


Bill

[spotlope]

Wow, whatever worked its way into the water supply must have flowed right past me. (As WC Fields once remarked, "I never drink water... fish **** in it.") Guess I'll have another brewski and wait it out. In a day or two, the SOH will be good as new again. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

:ernae:, mates!

[BananaBob]

Wow, whatever worked its way into the water supply must have flowed right past me. (As WC Fields once remarked, "I never drink water... fish **** in it.") Guess I'll have another brewski and wait it out. In a day or two, the SOH will be good as new again. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

:ernae:, mates!

Same here Bill, hopefully like a splinter it will work itself out and be gone. I just hope the few rotten apples don't spoil the rest and in the immortal words of George Michael (I know he's a weird one, lol) ..... You gotta have faith. :ernae:

[sblzei]

Adding:

Manuele Villa

[Nick C]

Find the post that Bill Ortiss made on manners, which was eventually locked. Sadly this is nothing new, but if the prats don't get a grip, most of the devs will bugger off eventually.

[anthony31]

I'm rather new here so it may be a bit presumptuous of me to comment on this matter but I'll give it a shot anyway.

I'm not exactly sure what was or wasn't said but haven't the haters won?

Those developers who decide not to post in these forums anymore: what do you gain by that decision? Sure, you protect yourself from criticism but you also shut yourself off from a great community. You actually diminish that community. If everyone decided not to post then pretty soon there'd only be the whingers and the tumbleweeds. Let's face it, the FSX market is shrinking PDQ and one day will completely dissappear (unless MS come out with a new flight sim rather than a flight game). Walking away from forums and what is left of the FS community will only hasten the demise of the FS market which sure isn't good for business.

Don't let a couple of sad misery guts' get you down. Some people you just can't please no matter what you do. The important thing is to not let the negativity of others affect the way you live your life. If you do, then they've won.

Hopefully those wishing to leave the forums will just take a break. Let/get the anger out of their system (a couple of these could help there :icon29: )and come back to a great community because we need you guys.

Now, who needs a hug ? :monkies:

[Mathias]

Seems I missed the best part of the P-38 show?
It's always again impressive how some idiotic commends of a single individual who pretty much shoots into his own foot the moment he hits the "send reply" button can cause such a drama at the boards (any board that is, not just here).

[JorisVandenBerghe]

I think Dan deserves to be on the list too. :medals:
Don't forget to mention you deserve to be on the list, too...
(You're William Mayr, aren't you ? Correct me if I'm wrong)

[mike_cyul]

The most difficult part about being a moderator is that it's 100% impossible to satisfy 100% of the people....



As Abraham Lincoln remarked:

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.

So you're walking a well-trodden (and worthwhile!) path here, and I, for one, thank you and all the mods for the patience and diplomatic efforts.

Mike

[BananaBob]

Yep, I think there is dark dirty part of our soul that enjoys seeing the destruction of something good, it's part of us all, but you have to shove that right back to the deepest depths when it's ugly head rears, I know, I've seen it in myself and if it were not for some good people here, it probably would have consumed me, it's a fight you can never quit...... unless you enjoy being that way, which is sad in itself. :engel016:

[Quicksand]

Panther, I watched this thing unfold yesterday, and I must say that you did one heck of a job handling the situation. Thanks for stepping in and doing what had to be done. :medals::icon29::guinness::medals:

[CrisGer]

I am a shellback here, wet between the ears and still learning the ropes. but...

the community here is 99.999% some of the greatest ppl i have met online, and in my research into a variety of games and sims, i see quite a range... and the support of FS from the designers and developers and publishers both free and payware is awesome and unparalelled and of the very highest quality. Huge effort goes into any digital creation, and love and care and much more. I have dabbled in design and know what it takes cause i cant do it. I hope and pray that everyone and anyone who might have been offended will return, and any here will stay. We need all. The mods here do awesome work also, and keep the peace with kindess and courtesy and great tact. I am totally in support of the delete button wielded by admins being a mod and admin in several places myself.... and know that being human any including self can err and put foot in mouth...and hope for forgiveness and understanding...but it is essential that the admins keep things on the highest level. thanks so much for the efforts of all and here is a prayer for peace and respect above all.

[gajit]

Im probably gonna be unpopular here but can I just say this.

We need SOH to be a place where products are discussed independently. We often have to trust the few screenshots shown by a developer on their own website to make a judgement on a product. Therefore the more I can read about people's satisfaction or concerns about a product the more I can avoid buying something i am likely to be disatisfied with. More often than not I am encouraged to purchase by the posts on this site - my monthly card statement proves that!

Please SOH - stay independent from the Devs - even the 12 or so I really admire!!

[dswo]

We need SOH to be a place where products are discussed independently. We often have to trust the few screenshots shown by a developer on their own website to make a judgement on a product. Therefore the more I can read about people's satisfaction or concerns about a product the more I can avoid buying something i am likely to be disatisfied with. More often than not I am encouraged to purchase by the posts on this site - my monthly card statement proves that!

Please SOH - stay independent from the Devs - even the 12 or so I really admire!!

When you put it that way, who could disagree?

[gajit]

When you put it that way, who could disagree?

Theres always someone who could, should or would!! :ernae:

[spotlope]

It's hard to stay "independent from the devs" when the devs are part of the community. Would you rather none of us post our works in progress here? Maybe not give you a chance to give feedback that will be incorporated into the final effort? Seems like there's ample opportunity to give your opinion here and elsewhere, so I guess I'm confused by your comments, Gajit. Please, enlighten me.

[gajit]

It's hard to stay "independent from the devs" when the devs are part of the community. Would you rather none of us post our works in progress here? Maybe not give you a chance to give feedback that will be incorporated into the final effort? Seems like there's ample opportunity to give your opinion here and elsewhere, so I guess I'm confused by your comments, Gajit. Please, enlighten me.

That is not what I said but I see your point. I just sense that devs are trying envoke/lobby SOH to restrict certain "feedback" that does not always praise - I dont blame them but feel that if they use this site to promote and preview they should expect a varied review.

[Henry]

It's hard to stay "independent from the devs" when the devs are part of the community.
That is correct the SOH is a Member site and a community site.
i do believe the Staff here do there best to be
independent and view all sides
but even we have our own opinions.
As far as being independent
none of the Staff are affiliated to any one
with the exception of our donation ware planes
H

[Henry]

That is not what I said but I see your point. I just sense that devs are trying envoke/lobby SOH to restrict certain "feedback" that does not always praise - I dont blame them but feel that if they use this site to promote and preview they should expect a varied review.
nobody likes negative feedback i realize that
but we also have to keep order and fairness as best we can
i believe, (this is my opinion) we should not be an open bitching site either, some things have merit others do not
where does one draw the line
H

[Panther_99FS]

Adding to the list:

Mathias
Empeck - & the rest of the Polish designers
Eaglesoft Team

[IanP]

As Henry says, it's very difficult to know where to draw the line when it comes to criticism - some people take it more personally than others, some just shrug it off, some ignore it. How is a mod supposed to know when something is too much?

I think I've said before that something I've discovered from reviewing products is that very, very, few add-ons in this hobby these days are "bad". Some are mediocre, some have problems, some are phenomenally good, but even the worst ones have some redeeming features. Usually the price!

I know that others have already posted on the numerous similar threads right now that it's not what we say that causes the problem most often, it's how we say it. On the other hand, compared to many sites I know, SOH is very well moderated and the denizens are usually pretty well behaved (both developer and customer types, that is).

[harleyman]

Thanks to Panther for all his efforts as always..Thanks too for all you that appreciate what we try to maintain here on a day to day level...

Its so true..At times we are very unsure as to when to say enough....But... we ar human and just try to be fair to all...




One last thing...That IanP always has such well thought out and well spoken thoughts..You Sir, are to be admired....Have a :icon29:

[Bomber_12th]

Adding to the list:

Mathias
Empeck - & the rest of the Polish designers
Eaglesoft Team

...and Jan Visser, Warwick Carter, and the list goes on and on.

[Panther_99FS]

...and Jan Visser, Warwick Carter, and the list goes on and on.

Added to List:

John Terrell
Michael Migaud
Ian P

[BananaBob]

It's hard to stay "independent from the devs" when the devs are part of the community. Would you rather none of us post our works in progress here? Maybe not give you a chance to give feedback that will be incorporated into the final effort? Seems like there's ample opportunity to give your opinion here and elsewhere, so I guess I'm confused by your comments, Gajit. Please, enlighten me.

I agree here too, developers have websites and ways to contact them, if they don't listen say something courteous about it here, use tact, something that is missing in some posts here lately.

[dswo]

[S]omething I've discovered from reviewing products is that very, very, few add-ons in this hobby these days are "bad". Some are mediocre, some have problems, some are phenomenally good, but even the worst ones have some redeeming features. Usually the price!

This reviewer agrees.

[gigabyte]

The most difficult part about being a moderator is that it's 100% impossible to satisfy 100% of the people....



Oh Panther those word are so very very true! I can relate so very well, as many of you may know I am late deafened and I spend a considerable amount of time Moderating and Administrating several Hard of Hearing message boards, and compared to what I see on those SOH is the model of civil behavour. The point being is we are all different and we expresss our thoughts in different ways, what we may consider humerous saying face to face with a group of friends can be totally misunderstood on a message board like this one. Not only that typed text does not allow true feelings to come through, so it is very easy to come off sounding like a total @$$ when it was never intended.

I find myself from time to time reminding my members on the Hard of Hearing forms to take a chill pill and ease up, it is not always easy, but we sometimes have to take a second look at a comment and see if we are getting the intended meaning or if we are shooting from the hip and maybe (just maybe) reacting too quick or too strong. Let's try to play nice, we are all here for the same reasons and keep in mind it is often not what you say but how you say it!

[huub vink]

Can I add Wim Regeer and Stefano Meneghini?

Cheers,
Huub

[JayKae]

I think that we come here for some good info, good threads and to see if our stuff gets received well but above all... some good fun :)

[bazzar]

There are others that contribute in the "non- 3D developer" bracket too.

Talented individuals like Jerry Beckwith for example. Without these people you'd might as well be flying cardboard boxes.:engel016:

[Henry]

There are others that contribute in the "non- 3D developer" bracket too.

Talented individuals like Jerry Beckwith for example. Without these people you'd might as well be flying cardboard boxes.:engel016:
that was in the first post

"Ace" Jerry Beckwith (multiple companies flight dynamics designer)

and you got that right
mind you i grew up flying cardboard boxes
But a couple of people made my boxes into mossies:guinness:
and i thank all
H

[Quicksand]

Amen, Henry!:medals::ernae: