Paying Freeware Authors?

[pashley]

Hi Guys,

I'm Patrick Ashley, and I started a new website, FlightSimulatorXWorld.com

This is not an ad for the site. However, this being a freeware designers forum, I thought this might be a great place to pose this question...

How would you feel about designers like yourselves getting paid for your product?

I know this will bring some strong responses, but here me out...

I realize that the FS world is very heavily community driven; people helping people for the sake of doing it. That's great, we need more of that on the internet! Authors like yourself make product for the sake of giving it away, and you find satisfaction in others having a good time with it. I get that.

With FSX, it's my understanding that making quality product is much more time consuming. My concern is that people like yourselves will stop producing good, free stuff, because of this lenghty time committment, versus the payback that might come from it. In short, I'm wondering if quality freeware will dry up, because authors just don't want to put THAT much time into it.

That's were this idea (again, just an idea!) of paying guys like yourselves for quality product comes in.

I'm not talking about you setting up a paypal account, and people have to buy the product from you!

Rather, I'm talking about owners of FS sites, like myself, giving you some amount of renumeration for your hard work. I'm not talking lots of money here either; my thought was to make some sort of payment based on number of downloads, ratings, or reviews of the product. I'm not talking lots of money here, but some small amount to give to the author to say thanks for all the work you did, and please keep it coming.

The money would not come from users downloading your product; rather, it would come from the site owner. And no, they don't have to pay any extra for download speeds. I don't do that at FlightSimulatorXWorld.com. My money comes from tutorial subscriptions. All else, including file downloads is unfettered and free.

Again, this is just a thought I had to help keep the freeware side of FS going strong, given the lead time with makeing FSX product.

I'd appreciate your courteous thoughts on this matter.

[gera]

Hi Guys,

I'm Patrick Ashley, and I started a new website, FlightSimulatorXWorld.com

This is not an ad for the site. However, this being a freeware designers forum, I thought this might be a great place to pose this question...

How would you feel about designers like yourselves getting paid for your product?

I know this will bring some strong responses, but here me out...

I realize that the FS world is very heavily community driven; people helping people for the sake of doing it. That's great, we need more of that on the internet! Authors like yourself make product for the sake of giving it away, and you find satisfaction in others having a good time with it. I get that.

With FSX, it's my understanding that making quality product is much more time consuming. My concern is that people like yourselves will stop producing good, free stuff, because of this lenghty time committment, versus the payback that might come from it. In short, I'm wondering if quality freeware will dry up, because authors just don't want to put THAT much time into it.

That's were this idea (again, just an idea!) of paying guys like yourselves for quality product comes in.

I'm not talking about you setting up a paypal account, and people have to buy the product from you!

Rather, I'm talking about owners of FS sites, like myself, giving you some amount of renumeration for your hard work. I'm not talking lots of money here either; my thought was to make some sort of payment based on number of downloads, ratings, or reviews of the product. I'm not talking lots of money here, but some small amount to give to the author to say thanks for all the work you did, and please keep it coming.

The money would not come from users downloading your product; rather, it would come from the site owner. And no, they don't have to pay any extra for download speeds. I don't do that at FlightSimulatorXWorld.com. My money comes from tutorial subscriptions. All else, including file downloads is unfettered and free.

Again, this is just a thought I had to help keep the freeware side of FS going strong, given the lead time with makeing FSX product.

I'd appreciate your courteous thoughts on this matter.

Checked your site......very flimsy to start with monthly and yearly charges, make some history first...:isadizzy:

[pashley]

Flimsy? What do you mean?

And I did state that I charge for Tutorials only, nothing else.

[Kavehpd]

As a freeware painter, I won't need anybody's money for my work. Neither yours nor users'.

As a user, I won't pay a penny for tutorials, aircraft, sound pack or whatever that is available for free elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I appreciate the fact that you are not planning on stealing files off other sites and selling them via compulsory subscriptions like FlyAwaySimulation people do. I've said this on HoverControl and I'm saying it here, again: that is day light robbery.

[yago9]

It,s a nice thought but I dont see that one possible.I see it as a recipe for disaster..If you want to spoil the spirit of free sharing throw some money in. With the traffic of your website at the moment were are talking nonsense from the start.:icon_lol: I think it,s just masked self promotion,wich is ok,i wish you luck with your new site ! Who,s doing freeware is doing it from passion only. Some coins wont change that. Who wants money compensation for their time and effort can always join the payware side of the FS world.:ernae:

[Bjoern]

Well, if you like a particular freeware release an anonymous donation will do as much as your idea.

However, even this by no means guarantees that a freeware developer will continue throwing out quality releases till kingdom come.
There'll always be the day when the fire's out or something else is more interesting than gmax or FFDS.

As a freeware developer, you have the liberty to do what you want when you want in the way you want.
Money, especially bound to certain conditions is more of a leash than a benefit.

[Thoe6969]

Personally I have a lot more freeware stuff than I do payware,and fly them more,but I do have a lot of payware also, but when one retires he can't buy every new plane that comes out.House payments,food,and and all the other bills are much more important.If everything was payware it would kill this hobby for me,and I'm sure a lot of others.God bless those that develope planes and such simply for the love of our hobby.

[djscoo]

I looked at the site...and it looks very professional. Two things (This is purely constructive criticism)

-I noticed the "small print" in the "join" panel... that could seem a little shady to some. I think you should just come out and tell everything...
-I noticed that you had Google Ads on your site. They weren't distracting or overbearing so you should be commended. Perhaps rather than selling memberships, you should set up "partnerships" with freeware designers in which they get a custom, personal area on your site where they can talk about new releases and post files for download. In return they'll get Ad revenue.

Good luck with the new endeavor! :ernae:

[pashley]

Thoe6969: Again, this is not something you, the user would pay for, rather the website would. Youd would download normally, for free, per ususal.djscoo : I have the small print in the join box just so people know up front that tutorials are a paid membership feature, and not part of the free membership - just trying to give people a head's up on that. Regarding the Google ads - we'll have to see. They don't generate that much revenue, although I've only been up two weeks, so it's too early to tell.

Thanks to both of you!

[CBris]

Interesting - yes
Altruistic - yes

Practicable? I think some of the response here already answered that.

Your site looks interesting enough to bookmark (which I now have) and to visit quite a few times (which I will). Certainly you'll need a thick skin for a while but I have no doubt that the site has potential. So don't let the nay-sayers get you down here.

Strange... your logo looks like it has a tad "aussim" influence in the style. Nice. Although personally I'd try to avoid personal subjective statements sach as "...allows you to access our awesome animated tutorials..."

Of course you are convinced your product is awesome. But that is a subjective opinion and the average simmer is a jaded forty-something who is not easily impressed by self praise. Of course, this is my own subjective opinion ingrained upon me by some years editing D-Moz entries (They don't like 'subjective' in any shape, colour or size...)

But otherwise... an interesting site to watch and maybe report on in one of my other roles.

Good luck Patrick, with your enterprise.

[Henry]

This is my personal opinion
not as admin here but from Henry the sim enthusiast
once money is involved creations take on a different
perspective, there is always a second reason
and a tie, Money does not come out of the air
wish it did but it doesnt:kilroy:
I am assuming that it would come from your site
and the creators if only uploaded them to your site
you would get traffic hence more money to you
and pass some along to the creators
basically thats payware
i do not believe that most freeware creators
would go that route
could be wrong but im not often
H

[djscoo]

Another thought...you should offer a free example tutorial of something simple so users can get an idea what they're in for.:wiggle:

[6297J]

Great, yet another FS site to divide and dilute the simming community even further :applause:

[djscoo]

Great, yet another FS site to divide and dilute the simming community even further :applause:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17526

[Lateral-G]

As Cyndi Lauper said:

"Money Changes Everything"

-G-

[Dangerousdave26]

You forgot one option in the poll so I will vote my mind here.


I follow the ELUA that the author has set forth and if its payware I buy, it if is freeware it remains free...
Now would I donate to a particular author for their creation?

Yes I own all of the Donationware FS9 aircraft availible at the Outhouse.

Even the models I could have got for free on the respective freeware sites.

You might think that the authors of the Donationware aircraft did not get paid for those purchases but in a way they did. I supported that which they thought important enough to donate their hard work and effort to support this site.

You will not see me joining your site but best of wishes to you. :guinness:

[jdhaenens]

Well......no. I restrict my initial distribution to three major freeware distributors. That way, when there is an update, I only have to swap files out three times, and I can tell folks where to go to get the latest and greatest pretty easily.

I don't even like the idea of a "Premium" membership where you have to pay for download speed. Two of the three sites above have premium memberships available, but don't require participation to get the downloads. I'm not a premium member of any of them.

Other freeware folks may feel differently, but that's the way I work it and it's comfortable for me.

Jim

[IanP]

I won't put it in quite the same phrasing, but I agree with the sentiment of 97J... Unfortunately while I can see your idea and in an ideal world would support it, in the current climate I can't.

I, as a freeware developer (albeit a pretty pathetic one), would not put files on your site. As has been proven time and time again in this hobby, the moment you introduce money to the equation it changes things totally. The expectations grow exponentially (and greatly to the detriment of the developer) as soon as you ask for money or, more critically, the people downloading your product believe you are getting money for it.

So while being paid is a boost for the developers, whether the income is advertising generated or direct from individuals, the insistence that they will produce payware quality products in return will become very great indeed from the most vocal "customers" - those who expected more than they feel they got.

In my opinion, which I accept holds little value whatsoever, I feel this is not the right idea at this time. Sorry.

[BananaBob]

I'm not too proud to take donations but as for charging, can't see it, I just don't like being committed to something and not being ultimately the one in charge, too much responsibility for my meager mind also, lol. :ernae:

[jankees]

Hmmm, being paid for my repaints?
Why?
I do it for fun, for myself, and if others like it, that's fine by me.
If they don't, that's fine too.
Money would change everything I fear..

[bushpilot]

Never ever would I charge anything from my paints. I do them out of good will and just as a spare time hobby. Keeping freeware free keeps things simple, "no strings attached" kind of way.

But I know some sites that download freeware stuff from avsim, put them in their site and charge for them. I've seen some of my paint on those sites and it sucks.

[Tim_Horton]

I have seen marketing campains like this before, designed to gain interest in a site, create a flash of hits to the website, all so that the person can sell advertising and make their buck while giving very little away.

I understand that this is a res session and a "sure thing" sounds like a good deal, but I still see "marketing Campaign" written all over this.

Why pay for tutorials, when you can log on to sites like fsdeveloper, and simpaintshop, sim-outhouse and countless others and learn for free? What would make your Tutorials any better?

I think google and Yahooanswers beat you to the punch, and I am sure that googleadwords would be part of your site.

not to mention you have already been hacked once. I don't want any information of mine close to your buisness.

http://www.backtype.com/url/flightsimulatorxworld.com

http://whois.domaintools.com/flightsimulatorxworld.com

[Henry]

intresting
H

[huub vink]

It just wouldn't feel honest to take money. I contribute to freeware projects and create textures just because I think it is fun.

Why would I expect money from other people when I'm just enjoying my hobby?

But, just my opinion. Perhaps other persons her have a different opinion, Nevertheless and interesting thought and an it made me think about it.

Huub

[lucas81]

It always shall be kept simple. IMHO taking money for the freeware will finally kill it. Even now there are such few people in the fsx land who offer their stuff without any charge. It is very frustrating to see how much the market changed after the fsx. Payware, payware, payware... Maybe it is my little frustration because I cannot afford all those shiny birds ;)

Lucas

[Major_Spittle]

I think it would be a nice gesture for any site that generates traffic by carrying a persons freeware. If I ran a site and noticed that certain people were giving away exceptional freeware and I felt I was making significant money from there work (due to increased traffic on site) I would probably be inclined to throw a few $20s their way from time to time with a nice " good job, people love your work. 834 downloads and counting" note. :jump:

There doesn't need to be any structure or anything too it, it is freeware. Distribute it for free as intended and if you wish to give someone money just do it. No need for a poll. :applause:

If a person charges for freeware it is not freeware. It is payware and stolen if done without the creators consent. :icon29:

note: using more emoticons as suggested by other users. :wiggle:

[pashley]

Ok, thanks for the feedback, guys. Looks like this idea isn't getting off the ground. I do plan on doing yearly awards for best developer, freeware author, repaint, whatever, so maybe that will do just as well!

Again, it was just an idea I thought I'd float out there; didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

Please stop by some time, I think you'll like what you see... :)

[Major_Spittle]

Ok, thanks for the feedback, guys. Looks like this idea isn't getting off the ground. I do plan on doing yearly awards for best developer, freeware author, repaint, whatever, so maybe that will do just as well!

Again, it was just an idea I thought I'd float out there; didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

Please stop by some time, I think you'll like what you see... :)

Not sure if other people misunderstood you or if I did. It is my understanding that I could go to your site now and download freeware without paying anything.

If this is true there is no controversy, send piglet a thankyou note with a fiddy in it.:jump:

[MCDesigns]

Just checked out your site and voted on the poll that no money should be involved. My impressions are, you have quite a few aircraft d/ls that point to the "admin" as the "owner" instead or pointing out who the actual developer is. A large portion of the d/ls also seem to be of others models reworked by the usual suspects that claim them as their own or as FSX models when in fact they are not.

Tutorials should have free access, especially since this kind of info can be had elsewhere for free or without having to join a site.

best of luck with the site.

[Bjoern]

It always shall be kept simple. IMHO taking money for the freeware will finally kill it. Even now there are such few people in the fsx land who offer their stuff without any charge. It is very frustrating to see how much the market changed after the fsx. Payware, payware, payware...

Truth, truth and nothing but the truth.

[IanP]

Truth, truth and nothing but the truth.

Total cobblers. There's a tiny fraction of payware for FSX compared to FS9.

Unfortunately, the percentage of payware compared to freeware has changed dramatically. The reason for that is the lack of FSX native freeware - not the amount of FSX payware. Many (the majority of?) freeware developers have either stayed with FS9 or quit the hobby. I know a number who have done both. I don't need a piece of paper to count the number of people who have done high or even average quality freeware aircraft releases for FSX. Indeed I'd say that if I took two particular members of this very site and counted their releases, it would cover the majority of native FSX freeware aircraft out there!

That's off topic, however, so this is all I'll say on the subject.

[fliger747]

I have been involved in a lot of projects, mostly free or donationware and like the collegial atmosphere. Those have been the most fun!

Cheers: T.

[Henry]

I have been involved in a lot of projects, mostly free or donationware and like the collegial atmosphere. Those have been the most fun!

Cheers: T.
but we dont even get free beer:icon_lol:
personally i love to do free stuff
then no one can complain
also love doing donationware
gotta have standards
im in no way wealthy but $20.00
would not change my lifestyle
H:kilroy:

[Mongo]

I'm certainly not a developer or a painter, but as far as I'm concerned its called freeware because its free. I've got no problems purchasing software, but the whole concept of pay-for-freeware kinda bugs me too. Payware is payware - you should just call it that.

[jimjones]

As a freeware photoreal scenery developer, NO to payment of any kind.

Well, actually, payment comes to all of us by using someone else's freeware.

[cheezyflier]

i had english muffins with peanut butter on them for breakfast. i also had some ovaltine.

[Major_Spittle]

I'm certainly not a developer or a painter, but as far as I'm concerned its called freeware because its free. I've got no problems purchasing software, but the whole concept of pay-for-freeware kinda bugs me too. Payware is payware - you should just call it that.

It still would be Free for everyone involved. The OP was talking about giving a gratuity to the creators from time to time if him providing their work through a Free download brought traffic to his site.

Free is free, why would I care if somebody got a donation/gratuity from someone else? What buisness of mine would it be? A free download is a free download to me no matter what, it can't get no freer. :ernae:

[Major_Spittle]

Hi Guys,


The money would not come from users downloading your product; rather, it would come from the site owner. And no, they don't have to pay any extra for download speeds. I don't do that at FlightSimulatorXWorld.com. My money comes from tutorial subscriptions. All else, including file downloads is unfettered and free.

Again, this is just a thought I had to help keep the freeware side of FS going strong, given the lead time with makeing FSX product.



:isadizzy: Why do so many people on this site have such a problem with somebody else getting some money for their work when it has not a damn thing to do with them???? It is still FREE! It is the same thing people are already doing, but site owners would volunteerally throw the dog a bone once in a while for traffic generated by providing their work for FREE.

I hope the guys providing me with all the great free downloads all win the lottery, I appreciate what they are doing and would be tickled if it got them some extra money once in a while. :applause:

[MCDesigns]

Major Spittle, try and see a bigger picture, there are lots of ways this "can" affect you in the long run. I doubt anyone here wants to begrudge any developer any compensation for their work. If the admin of the site wants to pay authors for submitting their work for his site, that is great, BUT what are the motivations behind this? Will site users eventually have to pay to d/l files because he has to make up the cost? What if this site model pans out and all sites pick up on it, how will users be affected then? how does the admin decide who gets paid and who doesn't? What are the expectations since they are now getting money for their work, etc. etc.

IMHPO it just sounds like another way for someone to set up a plan to make a dollar from this community (paying to access tutorials makes me think this). Running a site, especially with high bandwidth due to d/ls has some high costs and the money has to come from somewhere.

M.S., you ever think that if the guys providing you with the great freeware d/ls you enjoy wanted to make money, then they would have found a find a way to sell their work?

[Major_Spittle]

M.S., you ever think that if the guys providing you with the great freeware d/ls you enjoy wanted to make money, then they would have found a find a way to sell their work?

This kind of negates the worries expressed in your post. If some site owner really started paying them enough to make them go into bussiness, kudos to them and good luck. :ernae:

Honestly I think it would possibly give the developers some resources to continue their hobby and perhaps some friendly competition for beer money. Something we all could use right now. :icon29:

I guess I just see things differently than most.

[jdhaenens]

...But thanks for your well wishes, Major. I went out and purchased my winning lottery ticket today!:jump:

Judging from some of the mid-to-low quality payware scenery that I've seen coming out the past few months, at least with freeware you'll get your money's worth.

Jim

[Henry]

I guess I just see things differently than most.
i believe that to be a possibility:kilroy:
look at it this way
if a site offered money to a freeware designer
they could not upload anywhere else
or they would be in competition with themselves
and i can guarantee that the host site would not allow it
that would be an infringement on a freeware designer
if you upload here i will pay you and capitalize on your
product can you really see many people do that?
dont think so
what are they going to do, come to somewhere like this site and promote but you can only get it from another site,
thats not practical or they might get misunderstood as spamming
its not black and white
H

[Tim_Horton]

I tend to look at this whole thing in a different light.

Its not really about him giving money away, or people expecting money.

This whole topic was started to say "Hey my website Exists, Hopefully no one remembers it got hacked and soon I will get some renewed interested in it cause people lost faith in the site. So please argue, debate, but you will still be thinking of my product, my page."

Its like those stupid commercials on TV where they challenge you to say or do something, Its not to see if you can, its to get you to remember their junk.

[Kavehpd]

I tend to look at this whole thing in a different light.

Its not really about him giving money away, or people expecting money.

This whole topic was started to say "Hey my website Exists, Hopefully no one remembers it got hacked and soon I will get some renewed interested in it cause people lost faith in the site. So please argue, debate, but you will still be thinking of my product, my page."

Its like those stupid commercials on TV where they challenge you to say or do something, Its not to see if you can, its to get you to remember their junk.

"Apply directly to the forehead!"

[Wing_Z]

I'm not a "Developer" but I've done a few freeware releases, which were done for the sake of enjoying my hobby.
The moment you take money it becomes Work, which is not why I start up my sim.
If I took money, I'd have to find another way to waste my spare time!
Henry touched on it, too: freeware is offered as a gift, and you take it as such, warts and all.
Paying for something frames some kind of minimum standard, and I wouldn't want that pressure.
And, not being able to incorporate all that freeware out there as a result, would stunt the hobby ultimately.

[BananaBob]

I'll work for bananas. :ernae: This is the only job I have but it's the best one I've ever had because it's something I enjoy and believe me, if it weren't for the fact that I live on disability alone, I wouldn't take donations or ask for them. No one gets rich off donations, well except for politicians, lol. :icon29:

[anthony31]

I'd be very interested to see the books of sites like sim-outhouse, avsim, flightsim etc. As I understand it these sites all rely on volunteers to keep running. Any income they generate probably disappears very quickly with the costs of bandwidth, hosting, hardware etc. I'd be pretty damned surprised if any of them return a profit and I'd be exceptionally damn surprised if the original poster's website would ever earn enough to pay something back to the freeware developers. I think the phrase I am looking for here is "a work of love".

Another problem I could see is someone downloading a piece of freeware, changing the author's name to their own and uploading it to this new site. The last few weeks I have seen enough snakes in the FS community who think FSimmers are just a flock of sheep waiting to be fleeced. I think the OP would find most of their time was spent checking the validity of anything uploaded to make sure any money would go to the right person.

Plus, I agree with all the points in Henry's last post.

If you're a freeware designer and you want a bit of beer money put a donation link into your readme. You'd probably get more money that way than joining the OP's website and at least you'd know 100% of the profits went to you.

[tigisfat]

Freeware should be free, and you should pay for payware.

They are two different cultures, and should remain that way. I've oft been tempted to ask if I could pay for some incredible freeware, but no formal system should be set up. I think that our freeware developers should set up their own homepages with donate buttons linked to paypal, and that's it. I'd be inclined to drop the Jim Dhaenans, Dinos and piglets of the world chunks of money as I see fit rather than subscribing. I want to pay them directly, and noone else. I also want the option.

You're treading on thin water with licensing. Most freeware guys use products and editors that only have freeware licenses. They CAN'T legally sell their stuff.


I didn't like my options in the poll.

[pashley]

Guys, I came on here looking for some opinions on a simple concept, and it's amazing to me how it came to be seen as being turned into payware.

All I was asking was, "What do you think about THE WEBSITE giving a few bucks to the developer of a great piece of freeware, as a thank-you gesture" and it somehow became "We shouldn't have to pay for freeware!"

There was one or two guys that actually got the concept, and replied in a courteous manner. There was also one or two that pretty much came after me, putting down my site, and giving the impression they hoped I would be hacked again and go away.

Is that what you guys are really all about, vindictiveness and hate?

I certainly hope this was just a few guys having a bad day. Again, I was just asking a question, throwing an idea out there, to you, the community that would be impacted by it, and this is what I got.

To you that responded in a civil way, I thank-you; to those few that flamed me, I wish you would treat others as you wish to be treated.

I won't be doing the donation thing now, by the way, though I would like to cite the authors with a mentioning, if it doesn't flip some of you out.

[Francois]

I may be an old cynic, but nobody pays anybody in this big bad world of ours for nothing...... so where's the catch !!?? :pop4:


In my experience, and I've been in this now for over thirty years, people make things for free because they like making things, and maybe they like being commended for it.

People make (FS!) things for money because they like making things, and they feel it doesn't hurt to get paid for their time on top of it.
Some, but very few, people make things for money just to make a buck.

So the ones doing commercial work already have a publisher, or their own little company, or will get one soon.
The others don't need one (but may take your money thankyouverymuch).

Hence, back to the first line; what's in it for you ?? ;-)

[Lateral-G]

Guys, I came on here looking for some opinions on a simple concept, and it's amazing to me how it came to be seen as being turned into payware.

All I was asking was, "What do you think about THE WEBSITE giving a few bucks to the developer of a great piece of freeware, as a thank-you gesture" and it somehow became "We shouldn't have to pay for freeware!"

There was one or two guys that actually got the concept, and replied in a courteous manner. There was also one or two that pretty much came after me, putting down my site, and giving the impression they hoped I would be hacked again and go away.

Is that what you guys are really all about, vindictiveness and hate?

I certainly hope this was just a few guys having a bad day. Again, I was just asking a question, throwing an idea out there, to you, the community that would be impacted by it, and this is what I got.

To you that responded in a civil way, I thank-you; to those few that flamed me, I wish you would treat others as you wish to be treated.

I won't be doing the donation thing now, by the way, though I would like to cite the authors with a mentioning, if it doesn't flip some of you out.

I noticed your website is dead.....

-G-

[pashley]

I may be an old cynic, but nobody pays anybody in this big bad world of ours for nothing...... so where's the catch !!?? :pop4:

Hence, back to the first line; what's in it for you ?? ;-)

As I said in my OP:

"In short, I'm wondering if quality freeware will dry up, because authors just don't want to put THAT much time into it."

I WANT there to be lots of great freeware out there - but I also realized that making great freeware takes a tremendous amount of time, especially in the FSX environment. My reasonable line of thought was, less and less guys would be doing it, and just sticking with FS9 - and I think I'm right about that.

The point of ME throwing the guys a couple of bucks was just as a thank-you gesture, and yes, to hopefully have them host it on my site as well. I want FlightSimulatorXWorld.com to not have the biggest library, but the BEST one, in terms of content. How many times have you DL'd stuff from an AVSIM or FlightSim only to see it wasn't what you wanted? I'm just trying to keep great stuff out there, that's all.

Again, I just simply threw an idea out there - I didn't deserve to get hammered.

[pashley]

I noticed your website is dead.....

-G-


Yes, my provider took me down. Seems like someone out there either made an erroneous complaint, or inserted malicious code to shut me down.

Isn't that nice?

[N2056]

So if I uploaded a file to your site, and you sent me a 'donation' would I still be able to send that same file to the other big sites?

[tigisfat]

Yes, my provider took me down. Seems like someone out there either made an erroneous complaint, or inserted malicious code to shut me down.

Isn't that nice?

What percentage of the donations do you plan on keeping?

[Bjoern]

My reasonable line of thought was, less and less guys would be doing it, and just sticking with FS9 - and I think I'm right about that.

The only reason to stick with FS9 only is your hardware not being up to properly handling FSX.
As far as I've seen every developer who has the hardware to run FSX also migrates to FSX development.



I want FlightSimulatorXWorld.com to not have the biggest library, but the BEST one, in terms of content.

Have fun with that. Rome wasn't built in a day and libraries take years to assemble.

But a fine start would be to create seperate categories for FSX native and FS9 portover aircraft. You'd certainly have an advantage over other libraries with that.


I'm just trying to keep great stuff out there, that's all.

Sorry, but to me it looks like trying to force something with that concept. The freeware "market" though has its own dynamics which can't be influenced that easily and especially not with money.

[pashley]

So if I uploaded a file to your site, and you sent me a 'donation' would I still be able to send that same file to the other big sites?


Certainly. Get your stuff out there!

[pashley]

What percentage of the donations do you plan on keeping?

I don't take donations.

I have a few Google Ads up, but they don't generate anything to speak of.

I make animated, professionally - produced, high quality tutorials for those that want them, for a whopping $4.99 a month. That's how I get a few bucks from the site.

[N2056]

And if I were a guy wanting to download what would be required?

[pashley]

Have fun with that. Rome wasn't built in a day and libraries take years to assemble.

But a fine start would be to create seperate categories for FSX native and FS9 portover aircraft. You'd certainly have an advantage over other libraries with that.

Sorry, but to me it looks like trying to force something with that concept. The freeware "market" though has its own dynamics which can't be influenced that easily and especially not with money.

First of all, I'm not going to be doing the donation thing to the author - I've heard you guys, and you say no.

However, I'll be bold enough to say I'll have the best library out there.

Does that mean the biggest? No. I want quality stuff, not mediocre or bad stuff. I want you to be able to see big screenshots of the product, not little thumbnails. A search engine that can get you where you want to go quickly. I'm even thinking about actually taking the time to install the product, make a 30 second video of it in action, and posting it as part of the description in the library. Who else does that? Isn't that something people would appreciate?

And I don't charge for any access to the library, by the way. I don't charge for an "upgrade" to speed - it's all the same for every one. If you guys want something to go after, I'd like to think that might be something. Those guys are, effectively, charging for access to your work. That's dicey, in my view - but hey, it's your stuff.

[pashley]

And if I were a guy wanting to download what would be required?

You register on the site - that's free, and takes 10 seconds. No, I don't sell your email address. I just need to keep track of what is going where.

Go to the library.

Download. There's only one, non-throttled speed. I don't charge you for a faster speed or a number of DL's per day - it's basically open access.

There you have it, sir.

[Bjoern]

First of all, I'm not going to be doing the donation thing to the author - I've heard you guys, and you say no.

Ah, cool. Thought it still stood for debate.


Does that mean the biggest? No. I want quality stuff, not mediocre or bad stuff.

But how do you define "quality stuff"?

Add-Ons can be regarded as a piece of art, since they are highly subjective by incorporating a designer's philosophy and maybe even part of his/her personality.
Art is a highly subjective matter, others won't like what you like and vice versa.

Take Premier Aircraft Design for example. Some people like their models, because they're kept simple and user-friendly or because they've modeled a plane fans have been waiting for a long time. Others though, find PAD's KISS-philosophy and their low-res textures not appealing at all.

What are you going to do about that? Refuse to host those aircraft because they depict a simpler approach to realizing your favourite aircraft for FS?

Next example: Project Opensky. Beautiful models, great textures, but VCs as usable as a piece of lawn. Are they going to be hosted? You bet they are, because they're good for screenshots.

Where do you draw the line then?
Is it enough to look good to be "quality stuff" or do you also consider things beyond optical properties, like usability and flight dynamics?



I want you to be able to see big screenshots of the product, not little thumbnails.

That's always good, as long as the screenshots are representative, say depicting both exterior and interior of the plane.

Don't forget file descriptions. If the author didn't submit a good one, you'd have to write one yourself.


I'm even thinking about actually taking the time to install the product, make a 30 second video of it in action, and posting it as part of the description in the library. Who else does that? Isn't that something people would appreciate?

I wouldn't use that feature, but it would definately make your site a bit "different" to the other ones.



And I don't charge for any access to the library, by the way.

That's the minimum. I wouldn't join a site charging for freeware.

The unlimited download speed sounds good as well, but make sure your server is well connected to avoid chokes during peak times.

[pashley]

But how do you define "quality stuff"?



Of course, it's a subjective term. Why not host both types that you cited?

I can always review the library every year and weed out the ones with bad reviews or bad ratings.

Which, is another feature I have, that others don't. Not only can you leave a brief review, right in the library listing, but also leave a rating, up to 5 stars. To boot, the author can even "answer" your review, which is fair to the author. :icon_lol:

[Francois]

Sorry for continuing to be the devil's advocate, but: do you realize how many FS websites there are currently? Many of them just as 'idealistic' as yours?

I too want the hobby to continue, and am a strong proponent of freeware. I feel that 'the hobby' wouldn't have survived for over 30 years without it. But I agree with Bjoern: you can't funnel freeware.. it is a living thing, driven by individuals and their own personal focus and satisfaction out of it.

The plans you have for your website are fine, as yet another hobby project. I fear however that it will be just like all those other thousands of would-be top-quality FS websites in a year or so...... it takes many YEARS of continuously performing services AND lots of money (!!) to run website of any importance. Just don't make the mistake of underestimating that fact.

Wishing you lots of luck......

Francois

[pashley]

Sorry for continuing to be the devil's advocate, but: do you realize how many FS websites there are currently? Many of them just as 'idealistic' as yours?



Thanks, Francois.

We can drop the freeware donation issue - it's not going to happen.

Yes, I understand what is involved with my endeavor. I also realize the there are several FS site - and virtual airlines - that people just drop after several months of interest. I suppose that's human nature.

This is my situation: I'm a stay-at-home father. The wife goes to work, and makes a decent enough salary, so we can do this. I have the time to tender the site. I also have the technical knowledge (web site designer for over 5 years), the drive ( I want to make money on the tutorials) and the vision ( I know I can make a better FS website experience).

Will it be easy? No. I'm old enough to know that things worth having are worth working for.

I don't mind you playing devil's advocate - in fact, I welcome it - as long as it is done in a constructive fashion (as you have done) and not a "you'll-never-make-anything-of-this" fashion. That attitude is not welcome.

[Bjoern]

Of course, it's a subjective term. Why not host both types that you cited?

I can always review the library every year and weed out the ones with bad reviews or bad ratings.

That, while being great for keeping the library slim, isn't that practicable. Even "bad" files are somewhen needed somehow by someone. Kicking them out regularly wouldn't be much of a benefit to your site's public appearance.

Either reject them during submission or bite the sour apple and take and keep them all.

Other than that, if your amibition can be kept up in the long run, go for it. The more sites, the merrier. Even if it's just to free up some bandwith from the other, traditional add-on libraries.




This is my situation: I'm a stay-at-home father.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmWp-rI6vSw

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist...:icon_lol:

[pashley]

Hey, that was an awesome video! Will share it with my nephew...who is ALSO a stay-at-home dad!

[Sundog]

I'd be very interested to see the books of sites like sim-outhouse, avsim, flightsim etc. As I understand it these sites all rely on volunteers to keep running. Any income they If you're a freeware designer and you want a bit of beer money put a donation link into your readme. You'd probably get more money that way than joining the OP's website and at least you'd know 100% of the profits went to you. That says exactly what I think.

[Francois]

Yo Sundawg !!!!! Look waht you did here! YOu made me read a FIVE YEAR OLD thread that is no longer relevant !! :biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

(Note to self: check the dates on the posts before reading anything here)