G2K Version 4: Excluding Roads in CFS2.. and other stuff!

[MaskRider]

Well, each project is another learning experience! :d

I am currently working on Christmas island. The stock CFS2 version has many roads running amok over water and so forth. I wan't to get rid of them. I choose "dirty" roads and "major roads" from the exclude list in G2K but they are not going away.

I can get coasts lines to disappear. Is there something unique about CFS2 roads that I need to know?

ALSO, and this is a puzzler, for me anyway- the default Christmas Island location sits right on top of the 4 corner intersection of what I believe are 4 LOD CELLS. And I believe that this may be the cause of some very odd happenings.

Christmas Island is about 30 miles long and 15 miles wide. So its a fairly good size patch.

Check the screenie below. The first shows part of the background map/layout window as it appears in G2K4.

(BTW, the vertical black line is just where two CFS2 overhead screenies were joined together and the red borders lines of the cells have been enhanced to make 'em easier to see.)

The background "map" is squared up montage of two top down CFS2 screenies. As you can see the corresponding land and water classes for Christmas island a bit out of whack. The lighter colored water on the right sits at the correct position of Christmas island- where ideally I would like to move it.

Since I already have a beautiful GSL airfield in place at Christmas Islands current CFS2 location I decided I would get rid of the current light colored "shallow" water that is located (correctly) east of the land part of the island and make new water class call outs under the current land.

I figured "No problem", right? One simple water class project that will get rid of the old shallow water and put new shallow water under the islands current CFS2 location.

Hah!

First off, G2K divides the project into two parts- two RAW files- right at the vertical dividing line between the 4 cells. So I end up making two separate WC bgls for the project AND I am getting some very wierd visuals along that vertical dividing line.

The second screenie shows the two halves of the EZLC project montaged together.

One thing I have noticed- and I have no idea if this would make the slightest bit of difference- is that the last column in the EZLC grid on the far right of the left hand part of the project- just before the dividing line- that last column is considerably wider than all of the rest. Maybe something maybe nothing. But I check and it seems that this is always the case.

Anyway, the only way I seem to be able to avoid these visual anomalies is to pretty much just leave the original lighter colored patch of water alone.

The main visual anomaly by the way is that right along that vertical line, in CFS2, I still get blended tendrals of lighter colored water to the left of it with a strait edge right along it. When there should be nothing but dark blue deep water.

Any words of wisdom welcome!

Thanks
Chris

[MaskRider]

Two more screenies.

The first shows things as they currently stand. Note that the new WC around the eastern tip of the island- on the east side of the borderline between the cells- does not show up.

The second shot shows one of, the most pesky, visual anomaly that I described above.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Weeellll,

I got the WC east of the cell border to show up. Had to create a whole separte project with nothing in it but WC call outs for that little patch.

It shows up. But I still get the sharp vertical dividing line between the to cells. See screenie below.

I guess what I need to know is if this is to be expected and is there a way to create just one single WC RAW file that will generate one single WC BGL in this situation?

Tx,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Again, weeell,

I can get rid of the hard edge if I back off one area east from the CELL border. See screenie.

I guess maybe the best I will be able to do is to have some small random looking little patch of lighter water on either side of that CELL border.

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi MR.

Can you zip the G2kLWM file for the waterclass, and attach it to a post? I don't need the background bitmap, just the LWM file.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick.

Yes, I will get that packed and posted ASAP.

Thanks.
Chris

[MaskRider]

Here you go, Dick.

There are three of them. One for the exclude. One for the WC west of that cell border and one for the WC east of it.

I think I can dig up one that included all three items in one LWM if you wish.

Tx
Chris

[SdC]

The problem is that the edges (it seems only the western/southern) of addon landclass/waterclass files are always blended with the stock woldlc.bgl/worldwc.bgl, even if you have additional tiles adjacent.
The solution would be to combine the RAW files and use an edited INF file and compile it manually.

[MaskRider]

That sounds great to me SdC. But whenever I triy to open and "edit" a RAW file all I see are a bunch of vetical lines! Either that or a bunch of junk that holds no meaning to me. I wouldn't know where to start. :d

Is there a tool that converts them into some sort of editable format?.

Tx.
Chris

[MaskRider]

OK, I tried opening them in Adobe Photoshop Elements and I get a black and white image that looks like the image in TMFViewer or EZLC except that there appears to be no variation at all in the black part of the outline- the part that covers the WC call out. Its just black.

My paintshop pro recognizes and will save in the raw format also- but will not open up the file without my providing a bunch of header size info.

OK, I open up the the inf file and stuck in the 257X257 dimensions and that opened it in PSP.

Same view as in Adobe Photoshop elements.

Is that what it is supposed t look like? Or should there be some variation?

Anyway, I will play with it.

I'll combine the two raws into one with 257 rows and 514 coulumns. ??

Then adit the inf to reflect this change.

My gut doesn't tell me which lon I should use in the inf- the one from the most westerly of the two rawa or the easterly one. I will start out using the most westerly. Sound good?

Do I change the "UseSourceDimensions=1" to 2? Or just leave it at 1?

I'll play with it.

Here is what I will try first:

[Source]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ezl_norfolk"
SourceFile="christmas-wc-east-west.raw"
Lat= 2.8125
Lon= 202.5
NumOfCellsPerLine=514
NumOfLines=257
CellXdimensionDeg= .0146484375
CellYdimensionDeg= .010986328125

[Destination]
LOD=5
UseSourceDimensions=1
DestDir="C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ezl_norfolk"
DestBaseFileName="christmas-wc-east-west"

Chris

[MaskRider]

Well, that didn't work. EZLC says it will only import files that are 257X257 in size. Guess I will will pair that new one down to 257 square and then interpolate the difference in lons and make that the new lon so that the new inf files looks like this:

[Source]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ezl_norfolk"
SourceFile="christmas-wc-east-west.raw"
Lat= 2.8125
Lon= 200.625
NumOfCellsPerLine=257
NumOfLines=257
CellXdimensionDeg= .0146484375
CellYdimensionDeg= .010986328125

[Destination]
LOD=5
UseSourceDimensions=1
DestDir="C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\ezl_norfolk"
DestBaseFileName="christmas-wc-east-west"

Well EZLC opened up the new RAW file OK. Lets see if it will compile a new BGL using it and this inf set up.

[MaskRider]

Well, it compiles a nice new bgl and the bgl looks good in TMFViewer. Now to see what it does in the game.

Stand by...

[MaskRider]

Ok, so far. The bgl compiles ok and it shows up in CFS2. But its shifted over to the east by a degree or so.

Thanks SdC for the hint. All I need to do is figure out what that lat reading should be in the inf file.

I will post the relevant files so that anyone who wishes can also play with them.

But I'll do it later. Got to go do real world stuff for a while right now!

:d

Thanks,
Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

The LWM files are not the help I'd thoiught they'd be. Could you zip the 2 raw files, and the exact latitude and longitude of Christmas Island?

I can then make a zipped package thay will have a multi-sourced BGL output... and some other goodies ( I hope ).

Dick

[MaskRider]

OK, real quickly,

Here is what I am working with.

The xmas-island-stuff.zip contains 3 folders:

xmas-wc-east: contains the ezl, inf, raw and bgl for the east part of xmas island.

xmas-wc-west: contains the same for the west.

xmas-wc-east-west: this is my attempt so far at combining the two.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi Chris.

The LWM files are not the help I'd thoiught they'd be. Could you zip the 2 raw files, and the exact latitude and longitude of Christmas Island?

I can then make a zipped package thay will have a multi-sourced BGL output... and some other goodies ( I hope ).

Dick

I will do that ASAP.

By the way you might take a look at the zip above- it contains the raw files- at least the regenerated ones from EZLC. Will those do?

As for lat lon- do you want just an accurate lat lon for the center of the island or a NSEW limits type deal.

Here is the accurate lat lon for the center (the center of the LC part of the island- not the center of the light patch of WC):

1.8754
202.33 (-157.67)

Thanks Dick,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Here are the NSEW limits:

N: 2.0596
S: 1.7022
E: 202.5342 (-157.4658)
W: 202.1393 (-157.8607)

Chris

[MaskRider]

The problem is that the edges (it seems only the western/southern) of addon landclass/waterclass files are always blended with the stock woldlc.bgl/worldwc.bgl, even if you have additional tiles adjacent.
The solution would be to combine the RAW files and use an edited INF file and compile it manually.

Hi SdC

It occurs to me now, that this will require, in addition to the inf, a bat file of some sort to be written and that resample.exe will be the compiler of choice?

Correct me if I am wrong, because I haven't had a chance to go over it yet- but I think that EZLC is rewriting my edited inf? Would making the edited inf "read only" solve this?

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi MR.

http://webpages.charter.net/ludowr/xmas-wc_rhumba/

The folder has a RAW file that is 513 x 257 ( wide x high ).

It can be loaded into PaintShopPro. Then use the CFS2_WC_Palette.pal as a loaded palette. ( Use the maintain index option of the load palette. ) This will give you some color for any editing you would like... and then you can resave the file as type RAW.

The RAW files from EZ-Landclass are 257 x 257. But we want 2 LOD5 areas, so we make one 513 x 257. The reason for this, is that 513 points enclose 512 spans... and 257 points enclose 256 spans. Don't blame me, blame Microsoft. :)

I actually discovered this some time ago, and had some heated arguments about this until eventually everyone succumbed to my bullying. We need to enclose the spans by the extra point.

Sander is right in his approach. Combine the RAW data, then make a new INF. The trick is that the 2 at 257x257 must be made into 1 at 513x257. I uded PSP's copy on each to paste them as a selection into a new 513x257 sized file... then eventually saved it as RAW, after playing with the image a bit.

The waterclass types are:

In CFS2 I found there was waterclass throughout the globe, but much of it too shallow for planes and boats.

Value #254 is transparent.

CFS2, for the curious, has fewer classes than FS2002 or FS2004 ( as far as I can tell without trying them all ).

1 = Shallow inland water ( most of the landmass... too shallow for takeoffs )
2 = Deep inland water
3 = Ocean inlets
7 = Shallow coastal water ( too shallow again ) 0-5 meters?
8 = Shallow ocean water 6-15 meters?
9 = Shallow ocean water 16-30 meters?
10= Shallow ocean water 31-50 meters?
11= Medium ocean water 51-80 meters?
12= Deep ocean water > 80 meters?



Dick

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick, thanks.

I will gather it all together and redo.

You probably noticed that the combined RAW that I made was 514 X 257.

I looked in the inf file and saw that 257x257 was the number of rowsXcolumns so I figured a combination of the two RAWs would be 514X257. Didn't occur to me that perhaps one of the points would be getting counted twice.

Along the same lines as you, I just pasted the two 257X257 RAW image selections side by side in PSP so I came out with a 514x257. I should have slid one or the other of them over one pixel, heh? Or just clipped a pixel off of one end or theother.

When I tried to run my 514X257 file thru EZLC I got a message that it couldn't load a file that wasn't 257X257.

So, I opened my doublewide RAW file and clipped the 257 pixels out of the middle which left me with a 257X257 file. I figured that my lon would be half way between the lons in the original east and west RAW files.

Anyway, am I understnding you correctly that EZLC will load the doublewide RAW file as long as the number is 513 and not 514? That one column was what made it unloadable?

Can't wait to sit down and give it all a looking over and runthru.

Thanks Dick.

Got to run right now, though. It will be a couple of hours before I can get around to it.

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi MR.

I think EZLC will only load and make 257x257 single region landclasses.

When we go to larger areas that span more than one LOD5 then there are problems.

It's possible to use different sized sources, as long as they are properly configured in the INF file, and are lat-long projection.

http://webpages.charter.net/ludowr/WC_experiment/WC_EX.zip

In this example, I used the SRTM waterBody data to make a raster image of the atoll. Then I loaded that bitmap into PSP, and loaded the palette, and painted my waterclass.

I then used a multisourced INF to put it together ( using a world-wide transparent RAW for the background ).

======================================

[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 2

[Source1]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="."
SourceFile="XmasIslandAtoll.raw"
Lat= 3.0000
Lon= -158.00
NumOfCellsPerLine= 2048
NumOfLines= 4096
CellXdimensionDeg= 0.00048828125000000
CellYdimensionDeg= 0.00048828125000000

[Source2]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="."
SourceFile="transparent.raw"
Lat= 90.0000
Lon= 0.00
NumOfCellsPerLine= 361
NumOfLines= 181
CellXdimensionDeg= 1
CellYdimensionDeg= 1

[Destination]
DestDir = "."
DestBaseFileName = "base"
UseSourceDimensions = 0
NorthLat = 2.8125
WestLong = -161.27500
SouthLat = 0.0000
EastLong = -153.7500
LOD = 5

======================================

We are not trapped by 257x257 at all, but our sources must cover completely the LOD5s we wish to use... that's the use of the transparent.raw which spans the whole globe.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Didn't occur to me that perhaps one of the points would be getting counted twice.

Actually now that I think about it. I am incorrect here. What you said about spanning 256 points finally clicked in.

Its like when you switch from your LWM poly layout grid to your WC or LC grid.

If you had just drawn an LWM poly that was 256 areas square or say 8 areas on a side or just square- the new LC or WC grid would present a grids whose intesections (corners) all lay in the centers of the LWM grid under your square LWM poly. So, in order to lay in enough WC or LC to cover your square LWM poly, you will need to cover the square area that lies 1/2 an area outside your square LWM poly. Thus it will span one extra point or area altogether.

Gotcha- I think. :)

Chris

[MaskRider]

While I was posting my last I guess you were posting yours! :d

So, let me get this straight. I will not be using EZLC to compile this new multisource inf or will I?

I am easily confused.

Sounds like I have more new stuff to learn. Fer instance:

SRTM waterBody data

Was ist das und wo?

Hehe!

Talk to you later and thanks.

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi MR.

You can't use EZLC to compile a multisource INF... just use the resample tools, INF and a batchfile.

The SRTM WaterBody data is what they used to make the water flattens for the SRTM ( version 2 ) HGT files. It's pretty good data, but only covers the world from N60* to S60*, so it's crippled for northern Europe.

They are in shapefile format, so you need a GIS program to make a graphic.


Dick

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick,

Well I am home and pretty much ready to spend the weekend focused on this project.

I did a Google on "shape file viewers GIS" and came up with many things.

Can you please recommend a GIS program, freeware or payware, that will do everything I need it to do?

Also, I have located the SRTM Water body data. I've passed it by many times- just never noticed it before. :)

I have a couple more questions, too.

Am I right in concluding that G2K also shares this "spanning more than one LOD5" limitation?

And is it a spanning east to west limitation only or a spanning north to south also?

Am I right in concluding that it was pretty much just my bad luck that on this particular island project I ended up at the border between 2 LOD5s?

Am I also correct that this is a border between 2 LOD5 and not an intesection between 4 of them?

In other words my Christmas Island project location strattles 4 LOD8 cells and that group of 4 LOD8 cells is bisected in half, vertically, by the border between 2 LOD5s. Right? :d

I am trying to get my terminology and thus my thinking a little clearer on this point. So, please bare with me a little! :d

I'm still a noober.

Thanks,
Chris

[SdC]

Hey Chris, Richard,
Glad you're making progress, while I've been forced to take a little break from developing to sort out some RL issues.
Yeah, a multisource inf would be the easiest way.
I have almost all the LOD5 squares of Europe as individual RAW files, and this would be the solution to prevent the "stock" LC showing through at the LOD5 edges.
To get back to the exclusion of stock rivers+roads: I BGLAnalyze'd some stock pac*.bgl's and it does seem that layer 16 is for rivers and layer 32 for roads! I can't figure out why the exclusion of "32 Large Roads" in g2k doesn't work...
About terminology: in the title of the thread you say ground2k4. In fact, ground2k4 is the name of the later versions of ground2k (with fs2004 support)... "Our" version is called "ground2k version 4"....
In fact, ground2k4 can be used to some extent for cfs2. No VTP1 lines, but if you created a cfs2 project in ground2k version 4 that contains only LWM Poly's, you can open and compile it in ground2k4! This compiles much quicker and gives a cleaner BGL. Also, ground2k4 has the possibility to break lines. You can open a LWM/VTP1 project in ground2k4. After you've saved it, you need to edit the .lwm in Notepad to reset the version number in line 1 (or run it through cfs2autocoast).

[MaskRider]

Thanks Sander,

Please feel free to correct my mis speaks and terminology gaffs whenever and wherever you see them. Its the only way I can get myself to start thinking clearly about this stuff and to be able to ask intelligent questions.

I am finally beginning to get the message about LOD sizes and their signifigance.

Its kind of funny- when I entitled this thread G2K4 I thought I would be showing everyone that I knew that there was a difference between versions of G2K and that I knew what they were and that I would be clearly indicating that the G2K I was interested in is the CFS2 version. Didn't want anyone to think I was a complete newbie!

Hehe. :d

I think my best bet is to never pose myself as knowing more than I do. That way no one will assume that I don't sometimes need things explained to me slowly.

I will see if I can change the title. :d

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Ok, Sander. This ones for you!:icon29:

Chris

[SdC]

:ernae: We all keep learning different things from each other... As a network engineer I'm a bit overly sensitive to the correct use of technical terms....

[MaskRider]

Undertood, SdC. As a guy who has written tons of installation readmes and fielded countless questions WRT installation problems I also have an appreciation for being as precise and logical as possible when it come to telling someone how to do things and making sure that everyone is on the same page- using the same terms to describe the same things. Making things as fool proof as possible in order to minimize the feedback! :d

WRT G2Kv4:
I want to briefly summarize my experience with it so far and get feedback from you guys as to whether my observations mesh with your own or whether I am experiencing problems are unique.

Here are the things I have not yet been able to get G2Kv4 to do for me:

Compile a LC bgl
Compile a WC bgl
Exclude CFS2 roads
Display textures- when choosing them for VTP1 polys

I think there may be other but for now these are all that come to mind.

WRT Christmas Island
I found the correct Water Data shp files for Christmas- and got them downloaded

I downloaded TatukGIS Viewer and am able view and export bmp images to PSP.

Q: Is TatukGIS Viwer going to do everything I need to do with these shp files or is there a more "full bodied" GIS program I should be using?

Anyway, I am slowly moving forward.

Rhumba- or anyone really- how do I move that WC that you did- over to the west so that it sits under the default LC for Xmas Island?

I'm guessing by opening up xmas-wc-all.raw, laying in an outline of the default xmas and then editing using the CFS2 pallet that you provided (thank you!) so that the shallow WC sits under that outline. The remove that outline layer, flatten the image and resave as a RAW file. and run thru the bat as usual?

You can see by the outline of Xmas Island in the shape file why I am not at all enthusiastic about hand drawing in G2kv4 a new coast line for it. Heck even the default outline is a bear. And I already have a great airfield built at the default Xmas Island location- yes I know it sounds cheesy to compromise precise geographic location.

The only way I would want to create a new LC for Xmas and put it where it actually belongs is if maybe AutoCoast could be used? Is that possible for this project?

Tx.
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
cfs2autocoast doesn't do Landclass/waterclass yet.
I concur on the LC/WC compilation in ground2k; it was working for me in Europe, but somehow the Pacific is not working.
Displaying vtp1 textures should work fine!

[MaskRider]

I'd be happy if it could just do the coastlines!

[SdC]

What the.....
That's more lake than island :)

What size bitmap do you have?

[MaskRider]

What the.....
That's more lake than island

Hehe, yes.

From what I can deduce from examining the location in CFS2, the main portion of the land- surrounding and east of the main lagoon- is handled as a single land LWM poly. Then all of the little land-locked lakes or lagoons in the east end are carved out using water LWM polys- and they have shores- lake type shores.

Interesting fact- all of the landlocked little bodies of water in the eastern portion of the island are fresh water lagoonettes.

WRT What size bitmap do you have? Tell me what size you would like. I think I can get you a pretty good sized one- might have to find an ftp address other than my own to upload it to if it gets real big, though.

Chris

Actaully, I forgot that I have an online "briefcase" that will hold huge files. I've never used it though but it should do the trick.

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi MR.

The SRTM WaterBody data works well from TaTukGISViewer.

At the FTP site, there is some documentation... but briefly, the name of the tile describes it's location.

w001n37e.zip contains the three needed files for the data. The .shp files is what gets loaded in the Viewer. The SW corner is described by the name.

The tiles are actually oversized by 0.000138889 degrees... so they all overlap each other slightly. Who knows why they did this?

The small amount of overlap can be ignored for our purposes.

w001n37e is:

N = 38
W = -1
S = 37
E = 0

The tiles can be combined In TauTukGis and then the whole works exported as a single map. You may want to use "document" as the image export resolution to keep the image memory use down. In PSP, you can reduce the number of colors to 256, to further cut down the memory impact.

The data should be great for the Pacific. In Northern Europe, it only covers to about N60.

If you wany to cover a specific LOD8 or LOD5 region, then use LODCalc to firgure out what you need to use to encompass the area... then the Viewer can combine the whole works. You could use the whole image in Ground2K, or use some math to trim the image to cover just the needed bounds.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Thanks Rhumba,

I've spent the last couple of hour just messing around with two shp files in TaTukGISViewer and PSP.

I first opened them separately in TaTukGISViewer and then used the "File/Export to Image" command to save them as two separate bmp which I then open and combined in PSP.

Boy, am I glad that I recently upgraded my RAM from 128 to 512! Hehe! Phew!! Those are some large files.

Its good to know that I can actually do the combining ahead of time in TaTukGISViewer and then export.

I was going to ask about resolution and such. So, they can be exported at "document" resolution and the number of colors reduced to 256 in PSP. Great.

The files I am sending over are 4200x4200 (combined 4200x8400). That resolution I assume will go down if I use Document?

Nevermind, I just tried it and it reduces them down to 1890x1890. Much better! Hoo boy, and reducing the number of colors down to 256 really does a number on the old file size. Excellent.

BTW are you using w001n37e purely for expanatory purposes? Because the files I downloaded are named:

w158n01e.shp
w158n02e.shp

So just for drill my coverage from these two shp files would be:
N = 3
W = -158
S = 1
E = -157
?

I will be back to you WRT:
If you wany to cover a specific LOD8 or LOD5 region, then use LODCalc to firgure out what you need to use to encompass the area... then the Viewer can combine the whole works. You could use the whole image in Ground2K, or use some math to trim the image to cover just the needed bounds.

I still have some Qs about LODCalc and destination bounds and that sort of thing. Plus I would like to recreate that WC that you did but move it west so that it sits under the default LC for Xmas Island.

Thanks for the tips. I will go and play around some more with TaTukGISViewer/PSP and editing with your CFS2 WC palette, etc..

Thanks,
Chris

[MaskRider]

BTW,

WRT:I still have some Qs about LODCalc and destination bounds and that sort of thing.

Here is the inf file that you posted earlier.

[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 2

[Source1]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="."
SourceFile="XmasIslandAtoll.raw"
Lat= 3.0000
Lon= -158.00
NumOfCellsPerLine= 2048
NumOfLines= 4096
CellXdimensionDeg= 0.00048828125000000
CellYdimensionDeg= 0.00048828125000000

[Source2]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="."
SourceFile="transparent.raw"
Lat= 90.0000
Lon= 0.00
NumOfCellsPerLine= 361
NumOfLines= 181
CellXdimensionDeg= 1
CellYdimensionDeg= 1

[Destination]
DestDir = "."
DestBaseFileName = "base"
UseSourceDimensions = 0
NorthLat = 2.8125
WestLong = -161.27500
SouthLat = 0.0000
EastLong = -153.7500
LOD = 5

I am pretty clear about the [Source], [Source 2] and most of what is in the [Source 1] section of the file.

But given the coverage of the two shp files that I posted above- I am still confused as to how one comes up with the NorthLat, WestLong and EastLong numbers in the [Destination] section.

I am guessing that LODCalc somehow helps us to get these numbers- but still-161.275 and -153.75 throw me. The 2.8125 for NorthLat makes more intuitive sense but how ones uses LODCalc to arrive at that exact number is unclear to me. :d

Thats it.
Chris

PS Are those E and W Long values the E and W borders of the 2 LOD5s that Xmas Island straddles?

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick,

I just punched the same danged lat/lon numbers that I gave you back in post #16 into LODCalc and guess what LOD boundaries I got? Hehe, yep, the ones that are in your inf file.

I change the level of detail to 5 and thats what did the trick. I think I get it now. :ernae:

Oh, yes, I am easily confused.

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

With the TaTukGIS Viewer, you can play with the layer Properties and have the viewer outpt only the lines by making the Area / Area Pattern transparent. You need to increase the Outline to about 2.0
Make it black.

Now you can export a Line-only version of the shapefiles' image.

Some Image processing in PSP will clean the lines and you can search for lines crossing or merging.

Using Sander's CFS2Autocoast, you can get the lines into G2K ( or G2K4 ).

( I like the extra editing of G2K4, so I use that, then once I get a good LWM that compiles a BGL, I alter the LWM file to use CFS2 lines and polys. )

I know this is over your head now, but Sander probably understands where I'm going. We can get shapefiles into G2K... and the SRTM WaterBody data is pretty good, and matches the mesh we make from HGT files.

Did you understand how the landclass and waterclass files are just 257x257 RAW images? Using the palette I gave you with PSP allows you to just paint the waterclass.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Hiya Dick,

Hehe, yes, some of this is over my head.

In other words I haven't yet had enough experience with doing any of it that I can keep up without stopping to catch my breath occasionally- haven't had enough practice hiking the WC/LC G2K LWM hills and valleys. Its a lot to grasp all at once.

I confess that I went to bed this AM- way past the Spring Ahead point- a bit discouraged at having not even been able to duplicate what you had done with regard to repainting the raw file and recreating the WC for Christmas. And at the same time of course- moving it over to the west so that it sits under the default LC.

I think I can intuitively see that with the ability to manipulate the shp image and turn it into a line drawing instead of a "filled" (?) image makes it easier to use the image in AutoCoast and thus easier to recreate it as an LWM land poly in G2K and as a coastline in AutoCoast?

All of which would eliminate the need to move the WC west and place it under the default LC since the creation of a new LC and coast line poly would no longer be such a tedious time consuming chore.

WRT the specifics of the procedure above

I can get the results you describe by manipulating the layer properties in TaTukGIS viewer and I think I am understanding that raw files are 257x257 images and that I can paint them with WC using the palette you provided.

I will get back later. Need to do some experimenting and testing on my own here.

Thanks,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Not having much luck getting back to this project this afternoon/evening.

Have been playing around with TatukGIS Viewer. Pretty neat little progee for a freebee.

Been trying to get square images exported. Finally hit on the idea of setting and saving the desktop in Tatuk so that the display panel is square. Then when I export to image and choose visible I automatically get a squar image whose NW and SE corners I can pick with the cursor.

See below,

Probably going to fall asleep soon and call it a night/weekend.

Thanks for all the help this weekend. I hope by next weekend to be much more at home and accomplished with all this stuff! :isadizzy:

:d

Cheers,
Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

In another thread I pointed out FGIS. FGIS is a freeware GIS program that is based on the same DLLs as the TatukViewer. It gives you some more options for importing images and vector data. It's also free.

Dick

[MaskRider]

I saw that Dick. Thanks for the reminder.

Be interesting to see what the differences are.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Ok,

Took the day off from all this yesterday to let my brain clear.

Came back to it today and I am having success!

Dick, in a way, I have been punting. But, its working.

At the moment I have put the shape files aside and decided to focus on what we were doing earlier- using a double wide raw file instead of the double decker shape/raw file.

Been playing with that double wide G2K/EZL based inf file with the cells changed to 513 instead of 257. This is its current config:

[Source]
Type=WaterClassU8
SourceDir="."
SourceFile="xmas-wc-all.raw"
Lat= 2.8125
Lon= -161.25
NumOfCellsPerLine= 513
NumOfLines= 257
CellXdimensionDeg= .0146484375
CellYdimensionDeg= .010986328125

[Destination]
LOD=5
UseSourceDimensions=1
DestDir="."
DestBaseFileName="xmas-wc-all"


What I have been doing is simply playing with the lat lon entries until I finally got the bgl to be sitting where I wanted it. Kind of a straddling and zeroing in, straddling and zeroing in strategy. :d

I created a brand new 513X257 RAW from scratch in PSP using your pallet and a few other cutting, pasting and color depth massage steps along the way.

At first the bgls had the new WC located- as always- too far east. So, I just started playing with the lon value til I got it where I wanted it. I think I am finally seeing what those lat lon numbers represent- at least in this inf file: the western and northern edges of the raw/bgl or just slightly inside those edges from what my eyeball is telling me.

Does that sound about right? Am I clued in or still clueless? Just a blind squirrel who has accidently stumbled over a nut. :d

Anyway, I think I am beginning to get it.

Now I finaly have a new WC file, the default WC is gone and the new one sits under the default LC for Christmas Island the way I wanted it to.

Its a comprimise I am willing to live with it for now. Tomorrow I will try out the shp method once again.

Actually no I won't. Have to find out why I can't get rid of those pesky roads first.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick,

I was playing around some more with the WC values and your WC color pallet at Christmas Island when I noticed that the color picker readouts in the color window also give the WC value!!

That is really nice.

I was doin a lot of guessing before.

Thanks, Chris

[MaskRider]

Here are the current Christmas Island files if any one- either of you two mentors especially- wishes to have a looksee! :d

The screenie shows the current WC situation at Christmas.

Still need to be rid of the danged roads.:banghead:

Chris

[MaskRider]

Here is a view of the airfield on Christmas. Taken in the middle of some QC

View is SE along the north shore of the island's "handle".

Chris

PS Going to try handwriting an exclusion file for the roads at Christmas Island. Gary Burns says I will need Rhumbas TDF macro' in order to compile it.

Is it around someplace?

Tx Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

TDFMAcros is at AVSIM. search for tdfmacros.zip

Dick

[MaskRider]

Thanks Dick.

At Gary's suggestion I swapped out the older tmf macros in my main G2Kv4 directory with these newer ones to see if I could get a working exclude compiled. Still, no joy.

I don't understand why I can't get a working exlude fro G2K. I can remember back some time ago- over a year- when Gary and I were working on a Port Moresby project, I was able to get road excludes out of g2k no problem.

Could I have a messed up install of G2K do you think?

Chris

[MaskRider]

Update! In case anyone is still tuned in :d

Things at Xmas Island are going excellently. Came to the following hard and fast conclusions about excluding roads in G2Kv4:

1. IF the Area (LOD13?) in question contains ONLY roads, THEN excluding just roads (31 & 32) will work.

2. IF the Area in question contains BOTH roads and shorelines THEN the exclude must apply to BOTH roads and shorelines or else the roads WILL NOT disappear.

Hows that for a pain on the rear?

With this in mind decided to just make an entire new Christmas Island at its proper location. Scooted the new WC east so that it sits under the new LC. Gary Burns is helping out in a big way - creating the new LWM land poly and LC call outs as well as the uncountable little lagoonette polys and shorelines- drawing all of those nasty little corrugated convoluted shorelines and stuff. We used the exported water data image from the shp files for Xmas as the BG map in G2K- see post #41 above.

The new Christmas Island and Cassidy Aerodrome are beautiful. Truly.

:d

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

... a little like this

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
Finally had a look at your sourcefiles, and ran the bitmap through cfs2autocoast.
I don't know how much time you spent tracing the lines in ground2k, but I had the LWM+VTP done in about an hour (most time was spent adjusting the "enforce minimum segment length" sensitivity to eliminate the vtp1_poly_extract errors on the coastlines; this project is much higher resolution than the fs200x sources I've been using so far).
http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2files/SdC_ChristmasIsland.zip
I would appreciate your opinion (better/worse than "manual"?)
PS the coastlines are inverted; this is because the source image was a line image... next time the "water" in the bitmap must be colored.

[MaskRider]

Hiya, SdC!

Yes, I sort of figured that it should be but I was trying to follow what I thought I was being instructed to do. Hehe.

The image that I sent to Gary has blue water and white land and no line separating the two. If you wish I would be happy to send it to you.

As you probably read, I decided that the best bet was to just create a whole new islnad. So, Gary went thru the basics- new LWM water poly to get rid of the old island and an exclude to get rid of the roads and shores then just start anew using the new image and the corner co-ords from the tab file as the refereneces in G2K. I didn't actually do any of the manual drawing. Gary did.

I scooted the water class that I made over to the east to fit under the new LC and then relocated the airfield and reworked the ground texture masks so that it would fit in nicely with new and somewhat different shoreline configuration.

I appreciate your going thru the trouble. Thanks.

I am sure it was faster than by hand. But slow or no we've still been havin' some fun- no deadlines to meet! :d

As soon as I get a chance today I'll have a looksee and see how it compares. I am sure its great.

I attach a small jpg version of the bmp original Gary worked from. That one was 4200sq. With the corners at:

NW Corner:
-157.57697361367,2.08124207525877

SE Corner:
-157.14610607861,1.65027192825925

Does that look like it would work better for you? We're talking about using it in AutoCoast, right?

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
I didn't go through the trouble to do LC/WC and excludes; this was just an excercise to see how ground2k would cope with such a data source.
What I did was:
1. Set up ground2k ver. 4 project with the 4200x4200 bitmap as source, with the coordinates you provided. Save project.
2. Ran the bitmap through r-2-v with options: centerline (*would have been outline if I had used the bitmap from your last post), scale 1, treshold 0, tolerance 15, Arc.
3. Loaded project from step 1 in cfs2autocoast.
4. Selected "Import r2v file". Browsed to xmas-00.txt file generated in step 2.
options: LWM Water, remove lines with less than 3 points.
5. Selected the following Actions to make it ready for ground2k:
a) Remove jagged edges
b) Remove points in straight line
c) Curve lines
d) Enforce Minimum segment length (in this case: value 6 pixels)
e) Remove lines with less than 3 points
F) Saved and loaded in ground2k
5. In Ground2k, set all the Islands to "Land". This is the only manual process required.
6. Saved and compiled the project. Verified that the result is good in cfs2.
7. Loaded the LWM file in ground2k. When prompted "This project already contains lines, would you like to keep these?", clicked Yes.
8. Opened the background bitmap in graphic editor, and roughly painted the area where I want the shorelines to be of type 8000 (Ocean shoreline) black, on a white background (8001 - Lake, river shoreline)
9. Selected the action "Create Shorelines". When prompted, browsed to the bitmap created in step 8
10. Saved with a different filename
11. Opened the new LWM file in Notepad and in line 0030, changed the BGL filename (otherwise the BGL from step 6 would be overwritten)
12. Loaded the new coastline LWM file in ground2k version 4 and compiled. Note: if the compilation returns error "VTP1_poly_extract", you will need to go back to step 3 and increase the "Minimum segment length" in step 5-d.

[MaskRider]

BTW SdC, I haven't been ignoring this. Just been chewing on it and thinkin and messing around with it.

I loaded your files into CFS2. Very nice indeed. Beautiful fit between the _08 ands _03.

Sent them along to Gary, too, along with the link to this thread and your description of the process that you went thru to achieve you outstanding results.

When you talk about r 2 v, I assume you are speaking of some sort of raster to vector conversion utility- freeware I hope that is available where? :d

I went looking. Downloaded and installed one named WinToPo. Seems nice enough. Will it do?

Can you tell me, in addition to a graphics editor, G2Kv4, AutoCoast and this r 2 v thingy, what other utilities you also made use of- if any?

Thanks.
Chris

[MaskRider]

Hiya SdC.

Nevermind buddy.

It totally slipped my mind that you had sent me r2v way back on 3/9/06!

It was in response to my questions WRT AutoCoast and NetFramework on that earlier and forgotten thread. Well, I guess now I am ready to convert bmps to VTPlines.

At the time I wasn't quite sure just what the heck that meant or why I would want to so I let it go, figuring it would come back to haunt me at some point. It did.

Thanks.
Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC,

I have r2v. I have installed NetFrameWorkv2.

Having a bit of a time running the install on AutoCoast though.

Whenever I try I get the message:

"Cannot download application. The application is missing required files. Contact Application vendor foe assistance."

Details:
PLATFORM VERSION INFO
Windows : 4.90.73010104.0 (Win32Windows)
Common Language Runtime : 2.0.50727.42
System.Deployment.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
mscorwks.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
dfdll.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
dfshim.dll : 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)

SOURCES
Deployment url : file:///C:/MYDOCU~1/DOWNLO~1/CFS2ST~1/CFS2SC~2/CFS2AU~1.APP

IDENTITIES
Deployment Identity : cfs2AutoCoast.application, Version=2.1.0.3, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=7678c9740572a494, processorArchitecture=msil

APPLICATION SUMMARY
* Installable application.
* Trust url parameter is set.
ERROR SUMMARY
Below is a summary of the errors, details of these errors are listed later in the log.
* Activation of C:\MYDOCU~1\DOWNLO~1\CFS2ST~1\CFS2SC~2\CFS2AU~1.AP P resulted in exception. Following failure messages were detected:
+ Downloading file:///C:/MYDOCU~1/DOWNLO~1/CFS2ST~1/CFS2SC~2/cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3/cfs2AutoCoast.exe.manifest did not succeed.
+ Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.
+ Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.
+ Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION FAILURE SUMMARY
No transaction error was detected.

WARNINGS
There were no warnings during this operation.

OPERATION PROGRESS STATUS
* [4/12/2006 2:16:33 AM] : Activation of C:\MYDOCU~1\DOWNLO~1\CFS2ST~1\CFS2SC~2\CFS2AU~1.AP P has started.
* [4/12/2006 2:16:44 AM] : Processing of deployment manifest has successfully completed.
* [4/12/2006 2:16:44 AM] : Installation of the application has started.

ERROR DETAILS
Following errors were detected during this operation.
* [4/12/2006 2:16:44 AM] System.Deployment.Application.DeploymentDownloadEx ception (Unknown subtype)
- Downloading file:///C:/MYDOCU~1/DOWNLO~1/CFS2ST~1/CFS2SC~2/cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3/cfs2AutoCoast.exe.manifest did not succeed.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Application.SystemNetDownloader. DownloadSingleFile(DownloadQueueItem next)
at System.Deployment.Application.SystemNetDownloader. DownloadAllFiles()
at System.Deployment.Application.FileDownloader.Downl oad(SubscriptionState subState)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.Down loadManifestAsRawFile(Uri& sourceUri, String targetPath, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options, ServerInformation& serverInformation)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.Down loadApplicationManifest(AssemblyManifest deploymentManifest, String targetDir, Uri deploymentUri, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options, Uri& appSourceUri, String& appManifestPath)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .DownloadApplication(SubscriptionState subState, ActivationDescription actDesc, Int64 transactionId, TempDirectory& downloadTemp)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .InstallApplication(SubscriptionState subState, ActivationDescription actDesc)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .PerformDeploymentActivation(Uri activationUri, Boolean isShortcut)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator .ActivateDeploymentWorker(Object state)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Net.WebException
- Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.
- Source: System
- Stack trace:
at System.Net.FileWebRequest.EndGetResponse(IAsyncRes ult asyncResult)
at System.Net.FileWebRequest.GetResponse()
at System.Deployment.Application.SystemNetDownloader. DownloadSingleFile(DownloadQueueItem next)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Net.WebException
- Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.
- Source: System
- Stack trace:
at System.Net.FileWebResponse..ctor(FileWebRequest request, Uri uri, FileAccess access, Boolean asyncHint)
at System.Net.FileWebRequest.WrappedGetResponseCallba ck(Object state)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.IO.DirectoryNotFoundException
- Could not find a part of the path 'C:\My Documents\Downloads\CFS2 Stuff\CFS2 Scenery Tutorials & Tools Tutorials\cfs2AutoCoast_2_1_0_3\cfs2AutoCoast.exe. manifest'.
- Source: mscorlib
- Stack trace:
at System.IO.__Error.WinIOError(Int32 errorCode, String maybeFullPath)
at System.IO.FileStream.Init(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, Int32 rights, Boolean useRights, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options, SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES secAttrs, String msgPath, Boolean bFromProxy)
at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, Boolean useAsync)
at System.Net.FileWebStream..ctor(FileWebRequest request, String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare sharing, Int32 length, Boolean async)
at System.Net.FileWebResponse..ctor(FileWebRequest request, Uri uri, FileAccess access, Boolean asyncHint)

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION DETAILS
No transaction information is available.



Any hints or suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
First of all, thanks for giving it a go, for me this is pretty exciting stuff, and your participation may give me the incentive to actually polish it up and eliminate the remaining bugs....

First a question: did you by any chance not click on the "Install" button on the page (http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2autocoast/), but did you right-click and "Save As.."????????
If so... don't! Just click and run!

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC

For me the "INSTALL" button doesn't work. I get a dead link page everytime I click it.

The "launch" link seems to be alive and well though so I have been using that.

The first time I tried it, I right click and chose the "Save as" option.

All that happened was that little file got save to the folder I sent it to.

The next time, after I was sure- I think :d - that I have a good install of NetFrameWork, I left clicked the "launch" button and the message above is what I got.

I also, after that, left clicked on the little cfs2AutoCoast.application file and got the same message.

Do I need to dump that little file from my hard drive or is it something else?

Chris

Let me very quickly dump the file from my hard drive and try it the right way-

Nope. When I left click the "launch" link, it gives me the normal options of open with the default application, Open with___, and Save as.

When I choose open with default application- I can see it saving the file and then it begins the install process and shortly thereafter I get that message.

Actually I don't know if that is the install process that is starting. It starts doing something.

[MaskRider]

WRT:

and your participation may give me the incentive to actually polish it up and eliminate the remaining bugs....

I am flattered. I will do my best to keep you on task!

:d

Chris

[SdC]

Hmmm ...MS really does want you to upgrade to XP....
I'll try to find a workaround.

[MaskRider]

Ah, yes, A workaround. Thats the ticket!

Please, be kind.

Chris

[SdC]

When I get home, I'll create an "offline" install package for you and send it by mail. Only setback with that is you probably won't receive automatic updates...

[MaskRider]

Thanks Sander,

Thats great. It may not be ideal WRT automatic updates but its a starter.

Sorry to be such a pain.

I did invest in Office 97 though, if you remember- so I could use EZLC!

I try!

I'll be standing by.

Chris

[SdC]

Thanks Sander,

Thats great. It may not be ideal WRT automatic updates but its a starter.

Sorry to be such a pain.

I did invest in Office 97 though, if you remember- so I could use EZLC!

I try!

I'll be standing by.

Chris

No worries. I'm just a bit spoilt; as a MS Certified Engineer working for a MS Gold Partner I always have access to the latest goodies - and not afraid to use them (nothing from Game Studio's unfortunately).

[MaskRider]

Well, you are a professional. And you are use to dealing with professionals. At times I am sure that you must find others who aren't to seem a bit thick and exasperating. I understand. I can be astonishingly so sometimes- especially to myself!

Believe me though, I share your enjoyment and committment to turning out quality scenery for CFS2- as do others. And I'm grateful for all of the help I have received these last few weeks from you and everyone.

I have been exposed to a lot of what to me are new and revolutionary ways of doing things.

It will change the look and scope of my work pretty radically.

Its been fun. The learning curve is pretty steep and slippery- but its worth it.

Chris

Standing by for further developments.

[crashaz]

It is fun stuff isn't it. ;)

Also heavily addicting and you will find yourself looking for more exacting detail. :costumes:

[SdC]

It is fun stuff isn't it. ;)

Also heavily addicting and you will find yourself looking for more exacting detail. :costumes:
Well, there's one absolute boundary and that's the limits of the cfs2 graphics engine. Sometimes it feels like we're running around in circles inside it....

[crashaz]

Well, there's one absolute boundary and that's the limits of the cfs2 graphics engine. Sometimes it feels like we're running around in circles inside it....

Amen brother... and we still keep trying to :banghead: to find some new way past those limits.


Not sure if MS is going to come back to CFS... so we will have to work with what we have until the next combat sim that allows customizations... that will be the sim that will have my attention. It's a shame they do not allow the Aces team to build the next CFS... some of the Aces team like Taildragger are leaving to work on other MS projects.

http://blogs.msdn.com/tdragger/

[MaskRider]

Howdy boys!

Well, I have been doing a bunch of dustin and cleanin. Getting all of the notes, and pieces of posts, folders full of stuff that are scattered all over my desktop, and LWMs and hgts and BSQs and shps and bils and inf and bats and ezls and RAWs into order and making a sort of protocall to follow from here on out when making these complicated scenery projects.

Think I am pretty well organized now. Got the first 5 projects all tweaked into shape so that each project has the same number and type of project files and all of the bgls follow a set naming protocall.

I am organized and ready to proceed smartly.

I do have a question/request for Dick if he is around someplace:

Dick, I love working with your WC pallete and the WCs in PSP7. Do you by any chance have a LC pallete for CFS2 that you wouldn't mind generously sharing also?

It would really be cool to have both!

By the way, I haven't had a chance toi use those exported shp images with r2v and autocoast yet- but they're what I am using as maps when doing the G2K work. Sometimes the representations are not so good. Guess things can depend on tides and stuff. I don't know. But either way they are always a great first layer- especially when mesh is part of the package.

Did complete reworks of the Aitutaki and Norfolk Island project using those shp file images- they fit the mesh like gloves. The only other one of the 5 latest that also has mesh is Tongatapu. I'll be redoing it next. I found shp files for all of the remaining locations in the PacAirFrryRt project. As well as a few more that I was interested in. So, I'm set up to go.

Also, Sander, just wondering how things are going and if the PM I sent got to you?

Later,
Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

I don't have a palette for that, but someone could make one. You just need to know the valid LC numbers. The only problem would be the increased number would make it hard to distinguish what shade of green is field, grass or forest.

Dick

[MaskRider]

but someone could make one.

Roger that.

I find that out in my neck of the woods- SW Pacific- I haven't been using a big huge wide range of LCs- no more than a dozen. Less than that I am sure.

So, maybe it won't be too laborious task.

I will make it happen.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Question WRT the palette:

Can we use whatever colors we wish as long as the LC numbers and the line number in the 256 line palette match up? Or is there some predetermined match up between specific RGB values and LC call outs?

BTW I found that for my current work I can am comfortable with 14 LC choices: 7,33,36,59,72,92,119,128,130,131,132,137,138,141.

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

Yes. The index numbers control the number of the byte in the RAW file output.... they can be any color.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Thanks Dick.

I kinda figured that but went ahead anyway and roughed out some RGB values by copying and pasting the BGL image from TMFViewer over to PSP7 and then just kinda hopping back and forth to get the RGB values.

Here is a sort of table (didn't there used to be a table insert option?) listing the 15 LCs that I seem to be using pretty regularly. Also, included are the RGB values and LC Types:
CFS2 LC Palette
LC R G B Land Class Type
7 110 117 62 Tall grass and shrubs
33 54 83 40 Tropical Rainforest
36 105 112 55 Rice Paddies
59 138 131 84 Succulent & Thorn Shrub
72 80 92 49 Mangrove Swamp
92 103 113 61 Broadleak crops
119 118 121 96 Small city- non-grid, wet
128 87 101 44 Grass
130 64 58 45 Rock - normal
131 105 88 72 Dirt
132 116 122 111 Coral
137 202 177 119 Tan sand
138 58 59 56 Black sand
141 128 0 0 Rock - volcanic

Attached find the palette it self for PSP7

Chris

[SdC]

Chris, could you try this: http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2files/cfs2autocoast.zip

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,

That worked fine. All installed and ready to go. Thanks.

Guess I will give your Xmas Island routine a try and see how it goes.

Don't think I'll get to it this morning though - I'm about ready to doze off.

Probably sometime tomorrow.

Tx again,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Question.

I have an Atoll. I have the LWM land polys finished for it. The shp file image was unusable- far too little detail- but I did use it to massage a great hi-res map of the atoll- Tongareva- so that it is correctly projected and fits the exported shp file image to a tee.

This map is not a line drawing or a two tone image- unfortunately it is grey scale image of a full color map so there are no really hard lines of separation to go by.

As I said, I have the LWM land polys done and thought that it might be a fun first project to try my hand at using r2v and AutoCoast to make the shorelines. Would it be possible?

Can I get r2v/autocoast to use the line "drawings" of the polys in the G2K source file to create the shores?

Chris

BTW the image below is a much reduce jpg version of what I am using in G2K

[SdC]

If your ground2k project contains only water/land poly's:
use the "Create Shorelines" action in cfs2autocoast. It will prompt for a bitmap. This bitmap should be the same size as the g2k background image and be black where you want ocean shoreline (8000) and non-black when you want lake shorelines (8001) so it works as a mask.
Then save under another filename and notepad-edit change the bgl filename in the resulting *.lwm file.

P.S. for manually drawn LWM polies, there is no guarantee that the coastlines are automatically pointing the correct way ("Land on Right" flag).

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,

I am unclear about this very item in the routine you posted earlier where you said that you "roughly" painted the area black where you wanted to have ocean 8000 shores and white where there are to be 8001s.

How rough are we talking? You mean really just solid black and white so that the program will know that what it finds in the black to make 8000 and what it finds in the white to make 8001s?

I don't have to trace anything just rought it in and go back later and re-rough it in if need be?

And yes- at the moment it just contains land polys and I want all 8000s- does that mean I should paint the whole thing black?

Chris

PS I think I get it- sort of- we are kind of blue screening the image so that autocoast finds poly outlines against either a black background or a white one and acts accordingly?

[SdC]

Hi Sander,

...
How rough are we talking? You mean really just solid black and white so that the program will know that what it finds in the black to make 8000 and what it finds in the white to make 8001s?

I don't have to trace anything just rought it in and go back later and re-rough it in if need be?

And yes- at the moment it just contains land polys and I want all 8000s- does that mean I should paint the whole thing black?

Chris

PS I think I get it- sort of- we are kind of blue screening the image so that autocoast finds poly outlines against either a black background or a white one and acts accordingly?

Best shown by example:
http://combatfs.homeip.net/screenshots/mask_sample.gif

[MaskRider]

WRT:

P.S. for manually drawn LWM polies, there is no guarantee that the coastlines are automatically pointing the correct way ("Land on Right" flag).

But we can go into the new LWM and re-specifythat parameter? If need be?

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Sander,

....
And yes- at the moment it just contains land polys and I want all 8000s- does that mean I should paint the whole thing black?

Chris

Yes :)

[MaskRider]

OK, Thanks.

Chris

[SdC]

At this point, the "Create shorelines" routine automatically breaks lines as follows:
-After every 8 points
-When the angle between 3 points is less than 45 degrees (sharp angles often cause vtp1_poly_extract errors)
-When crossing boundary between 8000/8001 area on mask bitmap.
The lines will not begin or end thinner
I can make these values tweakable; just didn't get around to it yet.

[SdC]

WRT:



But we can go into the new LWM and re-specifythat parameter? If need be?

Chris

Yes you can do it manually in ground2k. If it turns out all are reversed, let me know and I'll add a "flip shorelines" routine.

[MaskRider]

One other thing,

In step 7 above you say to open the LWM file in G2K. Do you mean open it in AutoCoast?

I am jumping into that routine about half way thru so I may have missed a trick.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Ok, I got a new LWM and attempted to compile it in G2K. Immediately got the dreaded:

"Error_VTP1_Lines_Extract_Subseq_4" message. So. I need to increase the segment length? Is that correct?

Chris

[SdC]

Ok, I got a new LWM and attempted to compile it in G2K. Immediately got the dreaded:

"Error_VTP1_Lines_Extract_Subseq_4" message. So. I need to increase the segment length? Is that correct?

Chris
In order to keep the match between the water and shoreline, you'll need to reduce the resolution ("point density") of the original water/land project first using "Enforce minimum segment length", then recompile, then again "Create shorelines"....

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,

Understood. Learned it the hard way!

I have to change the parameter of the original LWM, not the one that just had its minimum segment length lengthened. It starts looking pretty crappy real fast otherwise.

BTW, what is the default? 1?

I am up to 4 now- getting ready to take it to 5. Should I maybe be going alittle higher or should I just take it 1 point ata time?

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Sander,

Understood. Learned it the hard way!

I have to change the parameter of the original LWM, not the one that just had its minimum segment length lengthened. It starts looking pretty crappy real fast otherwise.

BTW, what is the default? 1?

I am up to 4 now- getting ready to take it to 5. Should I maybe be going alittle higher or should I just take it 1 point ata time?

Chris
I just wrote the routine last week; value is depending on resolution/scale of the project. For my LOD5 projects, 2-3 is Ok, for XMasIsland I used 6. For the rest, your guess is as good as mine...

[MaskRider]

Gotcha. Thanks.

I tried 5. It didn't work. So I jumped it all the way to 8. That worked. So, now I am going to work my way back down thru 7 and 6 and see what shakes loose.

Didn't look at it in the sim yet. but I will as soon as I get this segment length nailed.

Migh take a break pretty soon, too!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Ok,

When I took it down to 7 it wouldn't compile. So I went back to 8.

It looks very nice in the sim- fits the altered _03s like a glove. Not a lot of detail missing by increasing the point spacing to 8 and I think I know what I might be able to do to improve things in that respect. Not that its any big worry at all, though.

Its a heck of a lot easier and faster than doing it by hand- the small sacrifice in detail is worth the savings in time.:d

Also, I don't know if it would be possible- but can you make it so that the altered polys- if hand drawn as in this case- gets included into the new LWM along with the shoireline? Its no biggie I guess- as long as one remembers to save that altered original under another name- as I think you suggested at one point.

BTW, the shorlines are reversed all around. So, yes, a flip switch would be nice!:d

All in all, very satisfactory, Sander. Great work. AutoCoast is a brilliant tool!

I look forward to working along with you as you develop it further,

Cheers,
Chris

[SdC]

:redf:
I've just had a revelation that's going to change my whole project around (I guess Easter is a good time for visions).
I'm going to convert the fs2002 coastlines using SBuilder exports. These will fit Rhumba's global water+coastal flattens like a glove and will eliminate the need for us to re-build all the water where ever we want shorelines, and greatly reduce production time, to the point where Global coverage comes within reach....
And railways as well.
Then I have on my agenda:
-(more) automated conversion of stock LC/WC
-import of PhotoReal
-auto-mesh flattening of Lakes
-auto-mesh flow of Streams

[MaskRider]

BRILLIANT!!!

Sounds pretty exciting!

I will still enjoy puttering around with my little islands though!

BTW, in all of the hub bub- don't go forging off and forget about that coast line "flip" switch!

:d

I am going to be hasta for a goodly portion of the remainder of the day- so enjoy and thanks again for all of the help!

Chris

[SdC]

Here you go: http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2files/cfs2autocoast.zip

[MaskRider]

Thank you!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hehe,

Well I am still at it!

The flip switch works great thanks!

A couple of questions:
1. If I don't want autocoast to make any coastlines for me at all in the non black part of the image- will painting that area some color other tham white do the trick?

2. When I flip the the shoreline and then compile I get the message:

"Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8.

When I click "OK" it continues compiling and produces what appears to be a normal bgl.

When I don't flip the shoreline I don't get the message.

3. I seem to be getting quite a few spikes- especially on very small islets- will the "remove spikes" function get rid of these

4. Is the sequence of actions in the Actions menu the order in which they should be performed? In other words, for instance should I remove spikes before making the shoreline.

Thanks, Chris

[SdC]

Hehe,

Well I am still at it!

The flip switch works great thanks!

A couple of questions:
1. If I don't want autocoast to make any coastlines for me at all in the non black part of the image- will painting that area some color other tham white do the trick?

2. When I flip the the shoreline and then compile I get the message:

"Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8.

When I click "OK" it continues compiling and produces what appears to be a normal bgl.

When I don't flip the shoreline I don't get the message.

3. I seem to be getting quite a few spikes- especially on very small islets- will the "remove spikes" function get rid of these

4. Is the sequence of actions in the Actions menu the order in which they should be performed? In other words, for instance should I remove spikes before making the shoreline.

Thanks, Chris

1. No, that is not something I've ever had to do.
2. That error is actually very annoying. Your project may seem to finish compiling, but there may be "cracks" at all LOD13 division lines and/or only a single triangle may be drawn for a line segment (instead of 2, making a rectangular). The fact that it occurs after flipping the "land on right" for me is a surprise, and I have no instant fix. What you could try is the "curve lines" action (after that you need to run "Enforce segment length again).
3. I think the spikes you are talking about are different from mine and may also be fixed with the "curve lines" function.
Both point 2 and 3 are the most typical errors when using hand-drawn lines with higher density than stock fs2002 scenery.
4. Not really at this time. Different types of project call for different sequences, "common sense" is the leading factor here. The plan is that once I have finalized procedures for different needs, to make scripted procedures available from the UI.
P.S. when you start the tool now, does it prompt you that an update is available? I'm curious to see if you can install upgrades from the internet. In the version I've built now, you can choose to include the coastlines into the LWM poly project rather than replace the existing lines. Also it's possible to change the bgl filename from within the UI, rather than with Notepad.

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,

OK, lets see:

WRT:there may be "cracks" at all LOD13 division lines and/or only a single triangle may be drawn for a line segment (instead of 2, making a rectangular). Yes, thatis exactly what I am seeing in the sim and in LWMViwer. Will play around with it as you suggest.

WRT: Spikes- understood.

WRT: Is the sequence of actions in the Actions menu the order in which they should be performed?...Not really at this time. Different types of project call for different sequences, Roger.

WRT: when you start the tool now, does it prompt you that an update is available? Yes, the first time I started it after recieving version 2_1_0_6 it presented me with the option to download and install the available update- which I did. I assume that this is a check that it runs every time it starts and only prompts me when there is some thing new?

I noticed the new action option for either including the new _08 coastline polys into the exiisting LWM or replacing the existing _03 polys with the new _08s. Very neat. Thanks.

And the new ability to change the bgl file name from within AC UI is there, too.

I will continue playing with Tongareva until I get the bugs shaken out of it.

Great, Sander! Wonderful stuff!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Also,

WRT:). The fact that it occurs after flipping the "land on right" for me is a surprise, and I have no instant fix. What you could try is the "curve lines" action (after that you need to run "Enforce segment length again).

Do mean run "curve lines" on top of the just adjusted LWM or start over and run it on the unadjusted LWM and then run "Enforce segment length" to see how it works?

Also, :d

Until you have finalized procedures for different needs and made scripted procedures available from the UI, could you maybe post here a very brief description of what each action will do and under what cicumstances we might want to use it?

I know this is asking over the top. Of course, I haven't looked at the help menu- maybe this info is already included?

I just looked- some of it is- thanks!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hiya Sander,

I have one other small issue that you might be able to help me sort thru.

Ever since I installed NetFrameWork on my computer- so that I could use AutoCoast :d I keep seeing this little program running on occasion called dfsvc.exe.

From what I gather, it is how a ClickOnce(?) application, in this case AutoCoast- automatically checks for updates whenever it starts.

I was wondering if there is an option that will allow me to turn the auto check procedure off- and just make it a choice in the Help menu to check for updates?

Does the program atually need to have dfsvc.exe in order to run? Or is it simply an auto updating procedure option?

I was just wondering- seems that since I installed NetFramework that my internet speed has become a bit spotty. Don't know if the two events are related or not- just touching all the bases.

I regulary check for the normal viruses and spyware and such- my rig is clean.

Chris

[MaskRider]

While horsing around with this project some more tonight I got this error:

Runtime Error 6
Overflow

What causes one of these little darlings?

:banghead:

Chris

[SdC]

While horsing around with this project some more tonight I got this error:



What causes one of these little darlings?

:banghead:

Chris
I suppose that's in ground2k? That may happen when it needs to redraw the background bitmap.

[MaskRider]

Oh, sorry, Sander, yes, in Ground2K and I forgot to mention that it happened when I was in the process of "BGL Generation".

Chris

[SdC]

Then it's probably caused by lack of available RAM in you PC.... I've had the error on occasion for projects with more than 50.000 points and when running other memory-hungry programs in the background (running XP with 1GB).

[SdC]

This should be ready as well today:
http://combatfs.homeip.net/screenshots/dlgcreateshore.gif

[MaskRider]

Wow- looks pretty interesting!

WRT the Runtime "Overflow" error , I sort of figured memory was it. I am only sporting 384MB on this old clunker!

I had performed a "curve" action on the previous runthrough in AutoCoast and I guess, from the looks of the read out, that the "curve" operation increases the point count dramatically.

It threw my little wheezer into cardiac arrest. :d

Guess I won't do that again- at least not on this proj.

Looking forward to eyeballing the latest version. I will be in and out most of the day and will keep an eye peeled for it.

Cheers,
Chris

[SdC]

Wow- looks pretty interesting!

WRT the Runtime "Overflow" error , I sort of figured memory was it. I am only sporting 384MB on this old clunker!

I had performed a "curve" action on the previous runthrough in AutoCoast and I guess, from the looks of the read out, that the "curve" operation increases the point count dramatically.

It threw my little wheezer into cardiac arrest. :d

Guess I won't do that again- at least not on this proj.

Looking forward to eyeballing the latest version. I will be in and out most of the day and will keep an eye peeled for it.

Cheers,
Chris
The idea is to reduce the resolution back with "Enforce segment length", so that the resulting poly lines are smoother than the hand-drawn lines, therefore probably less error prone.

[SdC]

The createshorelines dialog had to wait for a bit; instead I experimented with SBuilder SBX files and fs9 LWM files, and have automatically created a SCASM source files for Lake flattens! Now be can actually have the same flattened lakes in cfs2 as in fs9!
http://combatfs.homeip.net/screenshots/flatten1.jpg

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander.

Got the update no prob when I started AutoCoast this evening.

Spent a good portion of time today trying to get error free coastlines done by hand- after having little or luck getting error free results with autocoast either. I think I am trying to include too much detail or something and Autocoast just doesn't care for the hand draw lines of mine.

Finally decided to try Tongareva from scratch using the entire method as you described in you post way back when.

Went back to the shp file image and used it.Everything went perfectly. Got great lookin islands and coast except that the coasts came out backwards- and I think that this might be because I chose outline instead of centerline?

Anyway- just a minute or so ago I ran the relevant LWM thru autocoast again and flipped the shorelines- thats all. Then saved it and compiled it in G2K. Got one of those "Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8." errors.

Think I will start over from scratch with centerline chosen instead of outline and see what effect that has.

Congrats on successfully creating a SCASM source files for Lake flattens! Way to go! It should be a real boon to the sim!

All for now,
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Sander.

Got the update no prob when I started AutoCoast this evening.

Spent a good portion of time today trying to get error free coastlines done by hand- after having little or luck getting error free results with autocoast either. I think I am trying to include too much detail or something and Autocoast just doesn't care for the hand draw lines of mine.

Finally decided to try Tongareva from scratch using the entire method as you described in you post way back when.

Went back to the shp file image and used it.Everything went perfectly. Got great lookin islands and coast except that the coasts came out backwards- and I think that this might be because I chose outline instead of centerline?

Anyway- just a minute or so ago I ran the relevant LWM thru autocoast again and flipped the shorelines- thats all. Then saved it and compiled it in G2K. Got one of those "Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8." errors.

Think I will start over from scratch with centerline chosen instead of outline and see what effect that has.

Congrats on successfully creating a SCASM source files for Lake flattens! Way to go! It should be a real boon to the sim!

All for now,
Chris

Hi Chris, wow you've been busy.
I think ground2k has some specific vtp1 problem when the shorelines are flipped; I've now run into the same issue when compiling fs9 shorelines (exported with SBuilder). Very puzzling...
A possible solution would be to add a new line-type (i.e. 8015) to ownlines.txt where the bitmap is an inverted vshoresu.bmp, and leave the "land on right" flag default.

I'm not surprised you're having better luck compiling shp files; cfs2autocoast was never meant for finicky manual processing. The VTP1 compilation procedures in ground2k are just not robust enough for that (it is absolutely clear why MS moved to VTP2 in the next sim; VTP1 really s**ks)

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,
A possible solution would be to add a new line-type (i.e. 8015) to ownlines.txt where the bitmap is an inverted vshoresu.bmp, and leave the "land on right" flag default.
This sounds worth a try.

The island outlines are a lot less convolutued and complicated in the shp file image of Tongareva than they are in the map I've been using. And- there are fewer of them.

If worse comes to worse I can try once again to do the shorelines by hand- it might not be quite so nerve racking with the more simplified outlines. However I would like to get it to come out right using AutoCoast

I haven't rerun your method yet myself on Christmas Island. But I am not optimistic at the moment that just flipping the shorelines is going to achieve the desired results- I am referring to the shorelines you got at Christmas Island that were likewise reversed. You were thinking that mabe going from centerline to outline in r2v might do the trick.

I started out using outline on Tongareva and was thinking that maybe the opposite might do the trick? I don't know. Beats me.

Tongareva doesn't have all of the internal shorelines that Christmas does- might make a difference.

Until later,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Helloooo Sanderrrr!

Hi Sander,

well, first let me say that I have not been idle. But this evening is my first chance back into the old ball game for a good 24 hours or so.

I have a problem that has me stumped.

I have been frustrating myself this evening trying to get my totally hand drawn version of Tongareva to work right.

I am suddenly having a problem that I haven't encountered before and that I can't figure out.

I include 6 bgls and an LWM file in the attached zip.

These two bgls:

wm_tongareva_3.bgl and
0_tongareva_xcld.Bgl

are the exclude and initial LWM Water poly- for removing the original scenery. I have been putting them in my main CFS2 scenery folder.

The other 4 are pretty self explanatory.

Whats happening is that the shoreline bgl no longer seems to be functioning properly. I have been building it up, step, by step- checking to see that in compiles OK and that it appears OK in LWMViewer.

I hadn't had a look at it again in the sim till after finishing up a considerable portion of the new shoreline this evening.

For some reason I am getting nothing but fuzzy green squares instead of what should be showing. And they only appear in place of the _03 polys for which I have completed the coastlines. The other _03 polys look fine.

When I remove just the _8 bgl everything again looks fine- no shorelines of course.

When I put the _8 file back in- fuzzy green squares again.

I don't get any error message during the compilation process. And the file appears OK in LWM viewer and as far as I can tell in TMFViewer.

I was thinking it was some sort of conflict between copies of the same bgl or maybe a missplaced file but can find no such thing.

I am dreadfully afraid (after so much pain staking work) that the LWM file has somehow become corrupted. :-( But can not understand how it could be so.

Could you have a look?

Thanks,
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
It'll be a couple of days before I can take a look at the files....
A few things you can try:
-Instead of placing the Exclusions in de main \scenery folder, create a separate layer for them and add it to the library underneath the island's BGLs.
-Place a copy of the shore texture in the texture folder of the island's bgls.

[MaskRider]

Hi Sander,

Thanks. No rush.

I will try all of your suggestions.

Whats wierd is that at one point, with not messing with any of the other file or their locations, the shorelines were showing up fine.

Meanwhile I'll spend some more time on the r2v-AutoCoast-G2K approach. Always something to do!

Until later,
Chris

PS: Tried both suggestions- still No Joy.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Having much better success using Polysw/Shores: no more of the disappearing LC under the land polys and have had zero VTP1_poly_extract errors.

When I do a land poly w/shore I use the default setting for the shore- land on left, I guess?

When I do a water poly w/shore I use land on right as the setting.

I noticed also even when doing things by hand with separate procedures for the -03 and -08 polys, that if I flip the shoreline after making it one way I more often than not get those "Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8" errors on a shore line that was perfectly fine before reversing it.

WRT AutoCoast:

I am wondering whether instead of a flip switch- an after the fact solution that also seems to generate those bloody "Anormal Londecoupe LOD13_8" errors- if a shoreline on left or on right option- before the fact would work better.

If its possible, of course- I don't know if it is.

Chris