AvSim R.I.P.

[Helldiver]

The AvSim site is suffering from lack of support and lack of interest. Unfortunately, the Flight Simulator hobby in the US is slowly but surely shutting down. The lack of forward Flight Simulator support by Microsoft is the last straw.
There are some die hard contributors, but overall there are less than half the folks in the hobby in the US than just two years ago. It is holding on a bit better in Europe but no so in the US. They need new blood to keep it going. Bill Womack is just such a person but they need 30,000 Bill Womacks to have the hobby thrive.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I guess the site has been taken down permanently:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[Sascha66]

Sir,

wasn't there a thread here some days ago saying that the avsim site was upgrading hardware? I don't know how they finance it but the userbase must be huge judging from the number of files up- and downloaded.

Where did you get the figures on FS users dwindling by half? :pop4: That would be shocking!

Regards,
Sascha

[Sascha66]

I completely missed the thread about avsim being hacked and obliterated.

[stiz]

The AvSim site is suffering from lack of support and lack of interest.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Is it ell! it got hacked and destoryed, see the 50 other threads about it :kilroy:

[djscoo]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16232
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16218
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16256
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16220
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/../index.php)

:ernae:

[Sascha66]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16232
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16218
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16256
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=16220
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/../index.php)

:ernae:
Good to see the community pulling together - the uproar even made it on the BBC news! Glad to see the site has so much support from members there and here - I am also a memeber of both, visiting both every single day :running:!

[stiz]

ha so it has!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8049780.stm

[n4gix]

The AvSim site is suffering from lack of support and lack of interest. Unfortunately, the Flight Simulator hobby in the US is slowly but surely shutting down. The lack of forward Flight Simulator support by Microsoft is the last straw.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Huh? You really need to get out of the Outhouse more... :ernae:

I have to say that in the 24 hours since we were battling an attack on our servers, the community has raised the bar as to the definition of that community and its support for AVSIM. We have had hundreds of email offering help; dozens of message here in the forums offering assistance. We have seen flight sim enthusiasts not only outraged by the destruction of AVSIM, but with an awe inspiring willingness to assist, in any way that they can.

More people have invested in the future of AVSIM today via donations in a single, short day than we have ever seen in our nearly 13 years of operation. I am shocked, frankly, by the desire for the community to see us continue and your willingness to put your investment into our future.

[OBIO]

I can't remember on which site I saw the repaint, but it was a new upload and it was done by a 15 year old kid. New blood. And there is a new member in the CFS2 forum here, a member who looks to become a contributor to the CFS2 pool...and he is only 13. New blood. Sure, simming may not attract as many young people as Playstation and XBox, but there are young folks who are finding their way to the various sims....because like all of us, these young folks have an interest/fascination/obsession with aircraft. It's just natural for young boys to like airplanes at some point in their development. Fortunately, some of those youngsters continue to like aircraft and seek out the means to fly them.....and the natural setting for flying an aircraft when you don't own one, don't have a pilot's license is flight simming.

No, I think simming is alive and well....regardless of the direction that MS has chosen to take.

OBIO

[n4gix]

There are at least three young men (12,13 and 15) at FS-Developers who're getting into scenery and aircraft modeling. It's a real joy to be able to help them along with both encouragement as well as direct help with their questions... :ernae:

[Lateral-G]

The AvSim site is suffering from lack of support and lack of interest. Unfortunately, the Flight Simulator hobby in the US is slowly but surely shutting down. The lack of forward Flight Simulator support by Microsoft is the last straw.
There are some die hard contributors, but overall there are less than half the folks in the hobby in the US than just two years ago. It is holding on a bit better in Europe but no so in the US. They need new blood to keep it going. Bill Womack is just such a person but they need 30,000 Bill Womacks to have the hobby thrive.<o:p></o:p>
I guess the site has been taken down permanently:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Helldiver, why are you always so full of gloom & doom?

-G-

[Kiwikat]

There are some die hard contributors, but overall there are less than half the folks in the hobby in the US than just two years ago. It is holding on a bit better in Europe but no so in the US. They need new blood to keep it going. Bill Womack is just such a person but they need 30,000 Bill Womacks to have the hobby thrive.<o:p></o:p>
I guess the site has been taken down permanently:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Have you read the avsim temporary forum at all?

Where'd you get your figures from? I know a LOT of young people who are interested in flight simulator and aviation. I don't see the hobby dying much at all if any.

:isadizzy::blind:

[wombat666]

Have you read the avsim temporary forum at all?
Where'd you get your figures from? I know a LOT of young people who are interested in flight simulator and aviation. I don't see the hobby dying much at all if any.
:isadizzy::blind:

Give HD a break you lot.
He is getting on (80+) and has suffered a couple of strokes, as well as having problems with his sight.
Show him the respect one would show one's own elderly relations.
He might be a curmudgeon but he's our curmudgeon ...... :173go1:

[jmig]

Give HD a break you lot.
He is getting on (80+) and has suffered a couple of strokes, as well as having problems with his sight.
Show him the respect one would show one's own elderly relations.
He might be a curmudgeon but he's our curmudgeon ...... :173go1:

Here, here! I agree and think Helldiver is a credit to his age, if for nothing else, for his ability to stay abreast with today's technology.

Although, he has not spoken much of his life, from what I have gleamed, I think he has lived well and accomplished a lot.

I am happy to have him part of our family.



P.S. The older I get, the more I understand and appreciate his frustrations. :icon_lol:

[cheezyflier]

Here, here! I agree and think Helldiver is a credit to his age, if for nothing else, for his ability to stay abreast with today's technology.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L5nybImEIdw/R6pUjIYObQI/AAAAAAAACoQ/M_gVde54GdM/s400/chicken-breast.jpg

[Toastmaker]

Wha. . . ? Poultry porn !

Disgusting. . .

:eek:

[Helldiver]

Sorry to sound like the voice of doom and gloom but I tell things as as see them and I'm not nessarily right. Although without a doubt there a rat in the woodpile. You see AvSim was getting funkier and funkier by the week. Things didn't quit jibe. I think that maybe Tom was just plain fed up with it and wanted out. Why not say it was hacked and walk away? It is a 365 days a week duty and all he hears is complaints. The donations became weaker and less by the month, so the hell with it.
Plus he walks off with nice a bunch of gifts. SOH alone gathered up almost $2,000 to help Tom out with his sorry plight.
Another thing, he advertised AvSim Meeting to be held this year at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. I don't think he got anywhere nearly the response that he expected. I believe the economy is bad and a lot of people are out of work.
I'm very sorry to see it go. There's only FltSim left and I get a feeling that even possibly Nels Anderson is a tad fed up with it.
I hope that I'm wrong on both scores.
Bob

[nigel allen]

I think helldiver hit it on the head i agree, but i must say the problem with these site's are ther full of damm airliner's jet's bloodly jet's who want's them nothing like throwing a spit or p 51 and more around the sky's who can do that in a boing 747 or airbus bring back more prop's even old jet fighters are good there done with my moan lol :kilroy:

[jmig]

Sorry to sound like the voice of doom and gloom but I tell things as as see them and I'm not nessarily right. Although without a doubt there a rat in the woodpile. You see AvSim was getting funkier and funkier by the week. Things didn't quit jibe. I think that maybe Tom was just plain fed up with it and wanted out. Why not say it was hacked and walk away? It is a 365 days a week duty and all he hears is complaints. The donations became weaker and less by the month, so the hell with it.
Plus he walks off with nice a bunch of gifts. SOH alone gathered up almost $2,000 to help Tom out with his sorry plight.
Another thing, he advertised AvSim Meeting to be held this year at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. I don't think he got anywhere nearly the response that he expected. I believe the economy is bad and a lot of people are out of work.
I'm very sorry to see it go. There's only FltSim left and I get a feeling that even possibly Nels Anderson is a tad fed up with it.
I hope that I'm wrong on both scores.
Bob


Helldiver, that is like accusing someone of burning the business to collect the insurance. I think it is an unfair statement and an insult to Tom and everyone who has worked to keep AVSIM going.

I am sorry you said it. Until you have proof, it would be better to keep your mouth shut.

[Henry]

gentlemen accusations of some things
we have no knowledge of
are at best just that, without facts
one should keep mouths and keyboards closed.
Helldiver unless you have absolute proof
one should apologize
please all dont go there
for everyone's sake
H

[Helldiver]

You probably don’t remember this. Not many people nowadays seem to do, as Miss <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1:place>California</st1:place></st1:State> found out. But in a speech to Congress, <ST1:dJanuary 6, 1941</ST1:d, <st1:City><st1:place>Franklin</st1:place></st1:City><st1:City><st1:place>Delano</st1:place></st1:City><st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place> stated the Four Freedoms for all Americans.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The first of which is the Freedom of Speech and Expression. So you may not agree with what I say.
You’ve got that right.
But I refuse to apologize for what I think. There was nothing accusatory in what I said. It was merely speculation. Only time will tell if I was right.

[n4gix]

Thank you, Henry.

First of all, no money is going to Tom Allensworth at all. Every donation is being collected by Robert Whitwell, who's among other things the Treasurer for AVSIM.

No funds can be withdrawn without signatures from Robert and at least one other BOD member...

Please, no more libelous statments...

[n4gix]

But I refuse to apologize for what I think. There was nothing accusatory in what I said. It was merely speculation. Only time will tell if I was right.



Plus he walks off with nice a bunch of gifts.


That is considered "libel per quod" Helldiver, and is -in fact- actionable.

[magoo]

n4gix
That is considered "libel per quod" Helldiver, and -is in- actionable.

Actionable?

Perhaps in an acedemic vaccuum. In reality what we have here is bench racing in the bull pen at most. Reads to me as opinion, just as much as the idea of libel written these pages. More opinion.

I think before too much thin skin is rendered up, we ought to stick together and try to learn the true nature of the iceberg that sunk the Avsim.

It'll all come out in the end. And perhaps if we're lucky, we'll all end up with a better scenario than before. A closer knit flightsim community, and perhaps a stronger technical net for the entire hobby. That'd be a damn nice bunch of gifts for us all, libelous or not.

:guinness:

[n4gix]

Actionable or not, there are simply some things which should not be said publically, period. Tom and I have had our differences in the past, and are quite likely to do so in the future.

However, I'd never even think of implying that he's anything less than a true and honest friend who's doing the very best he can under some extremely trying circumstances. :applause:

[Willy]

Okay guys, let's play nice.

[magoo]

n4gix

However, I'd never even think of implying that he's anything less than a true and honest friend who's doing the very best he can under some extremely trying circumstances.

Certainly. An opinion as valid as that of the other man, the expression of such which should be guarenteed under the charters of several democratic societies that can access these boards. Thin skin or not.

Now.....the forum page on a privately owned website is a funny kind of thing. Even though the internet forum is often publically viewable, it is not neccesarily a public place. It is essentially a virtual room in the private home of the website owner/s, as opposed to (say....) a public park, a public street, avenue, or town square.

It's up to the owners of the website/forum to either tolerate or edit to their tastes.....the content posted therein.

I would think the most effective way for any website forum participant to stiffle or control the viewable opinions of differing writers might be for them to open their own website forum, or at least seriously offer to puchase the one in question, and take over responsibilities. That would allow for the manipulator to at least (and truly) place his/her money where the mouth is.

Regarding Mr. Allensworth and the tragic sinking of the Avsim, I can't say that I'm prone to emotional speculation. We simply don't have all the facts.

If the facts are ever truly discovered and released publically, I'll probably find myself suddenly opinionated.

In the meantime, I read the wide variety of member's postings with great interest, sadly fascinated at range of interpretation and emotionality, and wistfully grateful that the patient owners and operators of THIS website have not yet seen fit to lock down or edit the content of these threads regarding AVSIM.

Whether I agree with any of it....as differing as we may all see it.....the posts are all of merit, one way or another. We are all expressing ourselves with legitimate feeling. All the opinions are important.

Long live the electric flight simulator. May it continue to thrive and evolve. Let's fly the thing, boys.

LET'S FLY IT!

[Navy Chief]

Way before the AVSIM "crash", I had to cancel my plans to attend the Convention at Wright Patterson AFB this Sept. Financial reasons, of course. But I imagine I am not alone in that decision. Other things factored too, such as a possible divorce........

NC

[cheezyflier]

such as a possible divorce........

NC

a positive thinker would instead use the term "escape"
my first time, i remember feeling that. it took almost 2 years to wipe the smile off my face. people were highly suspicious :jump:

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

The official version can be had by following the link below , everybody is grateful for the offers of help but we are on it , we have servers and domain names , bandwidth and now that the tech people are in possession of the disks a good idea of what can be recovered and how , also a time frame for getting the site back online.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The staff at Avsim is who will be taking care of the work , and making the decisions, our Board Of Directors has meetings for discussing the options and we do discuss your ideas during them , but we are not obliged to follow every suggestion offered, nor is it planned to scatter bits and pieces of the Avsim we knew onto different servers temporarily , what is planned is to rebuild the website on new hardware , capable of supporting the current demands and those of the future .<o:p></o:p>
It’s been one week since " IT " happened and we will be installing the new system over the weekend, it’s not the end of Avsim but the REBIRTH of the New AVSIM. <o:p></o:p>
This is the way it’s going to be done , not quite how we planned to do it but S--T Happens , we are on it and will get the SOB that did it as well..<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
C Jodry , Managing Editor AVSIM.com<o:p></o:p>

http://linux.myalbemarle.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=378

[Henry]

Combat Flight Center started in late 1997 and came online in 1998. In 2001 Sim-Outhouse was opened and later Combat Flight Center became part of SOH. During the past 12 years the site has been taken down many times by hacking, getting slammed by hosts and equiptment failure. We have learned you must have a presence on the web even if it just a splash page and a short explaination.
to me thats just basic business sense
the same applies to any business virtual or RL
if the lights are out put a sign up
People get into a habit once that habit is broken
they create a new one
H

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

God Bless Ickie ....

[n4gix]

There are a couple of points that seem to be overlooked here:

1. AVSIM's servers are not "Hosted" by anyone. They are housed in a Network Operations Center in Herndon, VA. The only thing the NOC provides is physical space, filtered and uninterrupted electrical power, and a huge network "pipe" to which the servers have access. The NOC has no onsite staff to provide any other services.

2. All maintenance that requires "hands-on" is done by a volunteer technician, who must travel to the NOC at his own expense and within the constraints of his "free time." The closest tech lives ~2 hours away. This means four hours round-trip travel time, plus whatever time is spent on-site.

3. I no longer have access to the statistical logs, so I cannot cite precise numbers at the moment, but as of my last access five years ago, I remember quite clearly that during peak periods, there were as many as 10,000 concurrent connections to AVSIM by members, unevenly split between browsing, forum diving, and downloading. However, the majority were downloading files. I can only imagine that number has increased significantly since that time. Because of this, I do not believe that any COTS software is capable of handling this volume, hence the need for a bespoke software solution.

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

With a bit of luck we should have some capacity in operation by the end of the weekend , there is ample information to be had in the link i posted

http://linux.myalbemarle.org/forums/...php?f=32&t=378 (http://linux.myalbemarle.org/forums/...php?f=32&t=378)

Again we are Overwhelmed with the kindness & support shown by our members , and are trying to ignore/overcome the lesser angels of our species.

We have seen some abuse , conspiracy theories and conjecture that is unwelcome and is for the most part uninformed forum fodder ,
but there are some real troubled people out there who just want to ruin things for others , all the sim related forums seem to be getting more of them than could be desired ,
it’s getting to be spam is the least of our worries .<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[rhumbaflappy]

As of this time, it appears the AVSIM library will be OK, and the old forum posts might be recoverable. Great news!

The decision to overhaul the hardware and software seems sound to me. They currently have the funds and volunteers, so this is a good time. Hopefully, better security and backing up to an offline server will prevent future meltdowns. And hopefully, the new software will be user-friendly for the forums and the library.

Tom indicates a target of Sunday for a rudimentary web presence, and restoration ( if possible ) in the days following.

Dick

[n4gix]

Every server has a home or Host (NOC), SOH also owns it's own servers and have them housed in a NOC. We pay the NOC for our bandwidth and tech support. You need someone who can take immediate action with hands-on the servers who has experience.
...snipped for brevity...
I would just hate to see AVSIM take months to get back on-line, it would damage the FS community even more than the closure of the Aces Studio.

I meant "Host" in the sense that one is either using a virtual server on a webhosting service, or an NOC that offer's contracted technical support.

The NOC that AVSIM uses does not offer any affordable technical support for customer owned hardware, AFAIK.

http://www.pccwglobal.com/about/united-states.php

[Dangerousdave26]

Freedom of Speech and Expression. So you may not agree with what I say.



Remember you are bound by SOH terms of use policy which does not grant any member freedom of speech. There are limitations.

Some times we need to remember that.



Every so often, we tend to take this place for granted and maybe forget that we're not only just sitting around with a bunch of friends.
We're sitting around with a bunch of friends in public.



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So following Wombats suggestion I will give you a break.

Have a good day HD
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Wing_Z]

Personal attacks on members, moderators or staff are strictly prohibitive
I'd definitely agree with this one...such things prohibit personal growth and inhibit free thought...also tends to be prohibitively expensive to hire heavies to beat up those making the attacks :pop4: ah sometimes I am so obtuse I don't even get the joke meself...