Coming From OzX Center for Excellence

[warchild]

Some time ago, the guys at OzX started reworking default aircraft for FSX starting with the Bell 206 project.
For their next project, The Default Grumman Goose, they contacted me to do the flight model.. I gotta admit, it's the first time i had to take the toilet into account.. I and all of us Sincerely hope you all enjoy this complete reinvention of what should have been a wonderful default aircraft.
Stay tuned. It's coming in May..
Pam
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/1240799366.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/1240832811.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/Goose_HD_Promo_4.jpg

[Kiwikat]

Good news :jump:

I've been trying to make a turbo-converted goose myself. I got pretty close once but gave up. It would be cool if you could make a cfg and airfile for something like that. :engel016:

[warchild]

If you got the model, i can make the flight model.. 90% of it would remain the same but engine weight and position would need to be changed to match the real bird. We thought about the turbo version not too long ago and with a little math realized that the turbos engines were placed so far forward because of balance so most of the work is already done right there.. just a few changeds with prop moi and twist, and we'd have your plane for you..

[Kiwikat]

I'm not exactly sure how the weights and balance works. Is it part of the .mdl file itself?

I don't really care what it looks like. With a good PT-6 soundset like the one that comes with the Twotter or epic LT and the correct flight dynamics, it wouldn't make a difference (to me at least). I'd love a turbo version of the goose and DC-3.

[njbb1995]

Can you tell me more about the Default aircraft reworking thing please?

[CodyValkyrie]

Can you tell me more about the Default aircraft reworking thing please?
Yes, I'm curious to hear more about these projects. I sincerely would like to know what types of changes will be made. It might breath some new life into these planes that I have been needing for some time.

[warchild]

@KiwiKat
weights and balances are all part of the aircraft.cfg file and the air file. all that has to be done there is for some numbers o be played with. The engine will also have a different power curve which is in the airfile but thats on my end to do as well..

@njbb1955
What the guys at OzX have done is to take the default Grumman Goose tha comes with FSX and re-created it's textures in a high definition format. Ramps, Normals. bumps and paint have all been meticulously redone in formats up to 4096x4096 image sizes to allow for some of the most insane detailing i have ever seen. Every single rivet on this plane has been recreated, even the ones normally covered by the floats while in the up position. heat marks on the turbo charger and that sick discoloring at the waterline that paint gets after it's sat in water too long have also been re-created with extreme attention given to getting the color matching as accurate as possible.
These guys have taken something thaat was "ok" at the very best, and turned it into a work of art that will simply blow you away. I know it has me.
Is there a frame rate hit?? That IS a possibility. I know i took one. it want to much, but then your mileage will vary simply because we all have such different machines and capabilities. In general. anything over 2048 pixels is going to drop your frames, especially if like me ypur running REX and GEX and god only knows what else in the background eating up cpu power. Still, your really gonna want these when they come out. except for the model, it really is a whole new aircraft. Keep your eyes on the OzX forums for release announcements.
Pam

[warchild]

Just a couple more teaser pics showing some of the more insane detail.. Hope you enjoy.
Pam
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2009-4-28_22-11-43-280.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2009-4-28_22-16-49-53.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2009-4-28_22-20-5-91.jpg

[warchild]

@CodyValkyrie
I think your sentiment is the exact reason they began doing this stiff. Of course thats a wild guess on my part as no one has ever told me exactly why they're doing these planes but it sounds pretty reasonable given the chatter ive been privvy too.
What we've done with the Goose, is to create an almost entirely new aircraft, making the default goose what we think it should have been.
you can see the changes in the textures in the pics i've included. as for the flight model?? I trashed about 80% of the original and rebuilt it from scratch using engineering notes diagrams and the gracious feedback from a goose pilot. Is the FDE accurate?? I dont know. I would like to think it is. It's the very best i could do, and going by the various pieces of feedback as well as available documentation, it should be OK.. Like i said though, it's the first time i've ever had to take a toilet into consideration for weight and location.. weird? Maybe, neccesserry? definately..

[tigisfat]

I already thought it was beautiful, but you guys clearly made it better. Good work!

[6297J]

HD inside and out? I can't wait :jump:

[JayKae]

You are right Warchild.... 'the boys' got sick and tired of the default 'nastiness' and decided to do something about it, you can already try it by downloading the Bell package from the OZx library but the Goose is going to be the ants pants :) :)

[Lionheart]

Sounds Awesome!

Goodness, that doesnt even look like the same plane! Should be pretty darn nice.



Bill

[njbb1995]

Looks very very good..... Cant wait for more!!

[hinch]

That looks really cool, their HD Mooney was really good too.

I hope their next project will be the default c172 :mixedsmi:

[Alexraptor]

Thank goodness i have a GTX 280 and a PCI-E 2.0 compliant motherboard! that simply just looks glorious!

[stiz]

brilliant stuff :applause:

[Mithrin]

How cool! I might really like that! :D

[hobofat]

oh heck yah! goose is one of my favorites.

[gera]

This is something I have been waiting for............a Real Goose!!!!! with all the trimmings, that´s how you eat goose!!!! (have any tried it???..it´s a Chinese regular plate in Northern China)...Congratulations Pam.....my PayPal on stand-by!!!!!!!!!!:wavey:

[Tim_Horton]

Count me in, I've been working on a Sheet metal skin for the Beech Baron for awhile now, still picking away, started looking like a cement block but its coming together. Anyway I know lots of fellow over at our site who are drooling over this project, and we all love the 206! Wish there was more we could do to aid you, if you need help hit us up over at flightsimnation.com on our forums!

[Brett_Henderson]

What a great idea ! I'm looking forward to it.

Gotta ask though; about what bothers me most... There is some sort of sound gremlin, that I've been led to believe might even be model-related.. because I've TRIED to fix it.

When going in/out of the VC, the engines sounds get all messed up.. one side goes away completely, and the other side won't change when the throttles are moved.

The best solution I've come up with, is to use the sounds from the Acceleration P-51 (even the DC-3 sounds don't work with it)..

Are you 'all looking into this issue ?

[GypsyBaron]

I hope someone takes on the task of adding the starboard wing
of the default FSX DC-3. When you are in the right seat
there is no wing or engine out there.

IMO, with FSX being "VC-based" with more and more folks
using TrackIR, it is imperative that those parts of the
aircraft that would normally be visible when looking
back are modeled in the VC.

Paul

[warchild]

What a great idea ! I'm looking forward to it.

Gotta ask though; about what bothers me most... There is some sort of sound gremlin, that I've been led to believe might even be model-related.. because I've TRIED to fix it.

When going in/out of the VC, the engines sounds get all messed up.. one side goes away completely, and the other side won't change when the throttles are moved.

The best solution I've come up with, is to use the sounds from the Acceleration P-51 (even the DC-3 sounds don't work with it)..

Are you 'all looking into this issue ?

To be very honest with you, i dont know if anyone is. I experience those problems every time i take it up, but i dont have the knowledge myself to fix it, and if any of the guys have the knowledge it's doubtful they've been able to use it because of the intensity of the work they've been doing. It's certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, but i honestly dont know if anyone is actually working on it.. I can only hope at this point..

[rwmarth]

Will this include a reworking of the VC textures? Generally, the default VC are nice, but the default Goose had too much sloppiness outside of the main control textures and really ruined it for me...

[6297J]

Will this include a reworking of the VC textures? Generally, the default VC are nice, but the default Goose had too much sloppiness outside of the main control textures and really ruined it for me...

A complete reworking I hope. It would be pointless to make the exterior look fantastic without doing the VC as well. What they did to the Mooney was breathtaking so hopefully this will be along the same lines.

[SolarEagle]

Will this include a reworking of the VC textures? Generally, the default VC are nice, but the default Goose had too much sloppiness outside of the main control textures and really ruined it for me...

Yes Gizmo is giving his magic treatment to the VC a well.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/VC_12.jpg

[6297J]

Ummmmm, yep, that'll do :icon_eek:

[Paularx]

Brett, did you try the following - was posted over at Flightsim.com by "elindok" -

//----------------
Fix for the Grumman Goose sound problem:
//----------------

Go to your Goose/Sound/SOUND.CONFIG and scroll down to
[COMBUSTION.1.03]
filename=GGoos_RPM04_Right

The above should be changed to read :

filename=GGoos_RPM04_Left

//-----------


What a great idea ! I'm looking forward to it.

Gotta ask though; about what bothers me most... There is some sort of sound gremlin, that I've been led to believe might even be model-related.. because I've TRIED to fix it.

When going in/out of the VC, the engines sounds get all messed up.. one side goes away completely, and the other side won't change when the throttles are moved.

The best solution I've come up with, is to use the sounds from the Acceleration P-51 (even the DC-3 sounds don't work with it)..

Are you 'all looking into this issue ?

[Brett_Henderson]

Brett, did you try the following - was posted over at Flightsim.com by "elindok" -

//----------------
Fix for the Grumman Goose sound problem:
//----------------

Go to your Goose/Sound/SOUND.CONFIG and scroll down to
[COMBUSTION.1.03]
filename=GGoos_RPM04_Right

The above should be changed to read :

filename=GGoos_RPM04_Left

//-----------

I tried something similar to that, and it didn't work. Even using the entire sound folder from the DC-3 had the same problem (why some believe it's model related)..

But I will try tihs specific fix and report back... THANKS for posting it..

[RyanJames170]

may i ask what this is going to cost or is this freeware?

[Gizmo]

Hey all

Thought id come and stick my ore in on this pimp thread & ad a few details for you all

This Redux package like the Bell206 is again freeware,as warchild has already pointed out it consists of a totally hand rebuilt (from a blank document) 4096 Normal map as well as 6 colour scheme's each with there own cutom spec maps,much like the bell206 package that came before it will also feature a rebuilt HD VC,but unlike the 206's VC which was thrown together in a week (as a last min addition before the installer was built) the Goose's VC has been part of the project from the start and im much much happer with the way its turning out :)

To answer the few Why questions....well as FSXI is'nt coming anytime soon and not many 3rdparty dev's are interested in building planes that are allready in FSX,So we thought it would be a good idea to update the default planes we love in FSX to take advantage of the new higher end hardware that everyone has started to purchase of late,i just hate to see that Vram going to waste,it also gives us chance as painters not to be boud by other ppl's paint kits and release rules ;)

The bell 206 project was started as a skill up project for Ozx forum members to jump in play with & after that went well as a project and was well recived,we decided to try another default plane skill up project and the goose got picked (beaver came a close 2nd though) butch (the other painting guy on the project)thought the FM on the goose stank a little so he brought in Pam to strighten her out :) and i have to say as much as we've improved the look she's out doing us on the feel !

I'll check back on this thread as im in and out of the board quite a few times a week so any questions plz fire aways :)

Heres 2 more WIP shots hot off the press

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/OZXGG_2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/OZXGG_1.jpg


Btw the 3rd scheme WC posted is'nt part of the package thats a scale 4096 default repaint thats over at Ozx,but as its so cool that scheme will get added to a scheme expansion package that will be started after the core package is released

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback sofar i hope you guys enjoy this as much as we enjoyed making it

Cheers :icon29:
Steve ....aka Gizmo

[RyanJames170]

sounds cool im looking forward to flying it

[heywooood]

the red over white looks great....

is there any chance that you guys can work out some of the lighting issues the Goose has?

maybe attaching the strobes to the floats so they don't blink out in space when the floats are lowered?

and maybe disconnecting the landing lights from the nav lights ?

or are those issues buried in the model code and untouchable?

[JayKae]

I cannot answer the above questions but I can tell you how much it will cost.

AUD$0 which equates to US$0 as well, we at OZx think that everyone can afford this amount of money and we hope that a lot of people will be able to buy it because it is worth it :)

[warchild]

I cannot answer the above questions but I can tell you how much it will cost.

AUD$0 which equates to US$0 as well, we at OZx think that everyone can afford this amount of money and we hope that a lot of people will be able to buy it because it is worth it :)
::ROFLMAO::
Ummmm jayyy?? I love that last sentence ::LOL:: . oy vay..
Guys. you can see what your getting. Some of the most incredible artwork the world has ever seen to this date.. It's obviously worth more than nothing, but it's our gift to you because we love this simulation and flying and think everyone should have the opportunity to have top quality planes..
:D
Pam

[6297J]

Are you planning on converting more default aircraft after this one?

Makes me shudder to think what you could do with the Maule :icon_eek:

[foreigndevil]

That sure is a delightful Goose! :applause::applause::applause:Keep the shots coming!:medals:

[JayKae]

I cannot speak for the developers of course but I would love to see them do the 172 and the Maule as well but hey, this project has not finished yet so I am not even gonna go there :)

[Lionheart]

I cannot speak for the developers of course but I would love to see them do the 172 and the Maule as well but hey, this project has not finished yet so I am not even gonna go there :)

Oh man! So much that can be done.. You are so right...

Awesome....



Bill

[foreigndevil]

Thinking of the improvements on the Goose, Jens B. Kristensen's flying boats would be great subjects for the same treatment. Especially the ones that connected Oz with Europe would fit in nicely with the magnificent FTX stuff!

[PRB]

A complete reworking I hope. It would be pointless to make the exterior look fantastic without doing the VC as well. What they did to the Mooney was breathtaking so hopefully this will be along the same lines.

What they did to the Mooney..? I must have missed that. If it looks half as good as the screenshots of the Goose here, it'll be fantastic, so where do I get the overhauled Mooney? I went to the downloads section of the OzX site, but have yet to find it.

The work on the Grumman looks amazing!

[JayKae]

They were done by FTX actually, which can be found here:

http://www.fullterrain.com/freeware.html

There is HD for the Carenado 172, 152 and the Mooney

[MCDesigns]

Nice to have some high res textures for the Goose, good work guys! I'm more excited about the new bumpmapping than anything else.

[PRB]

They were done by FTX actually, which can be found here:

http://www.fullterrain.com/freeware.html

There is HD for the Carenado 172, 152 and the Mooney

Thanks, JayKae. I guess I misunderstood about the Mooney. I thought the makeover was done to the FSX default Mooney, as is being done to the default Grumman Goose in this thread.

[JayKae]

Ah, no, not yet, but when/if it gets done I will make sure to tell you all about it :)

[butchm]

Good evening Captains,

I am humbled by such a positive reaction to our project and given Pam's enthusiastic intro I hope the final product lives up to our expectations.

Steve (Gizmo)'s done a top shelf job :applause:and Pam... well you all know the caliber for Pam's work. :medals: There is still quite a bit more work to be done and so its probably going to be a couple more weeks I suppose before this project see's the light of day.

If your interested in furhter updates, please come and visit us over at Aussiex.

Cheers
Butch

'Aussiex Painter'

EDIT: In response to some of the comments regarding the VC, I thought I would post some WIP shots for the panels I am working on.

Light Grey




http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1241274206.jpg

Dark Grey

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1241257567.jpg

They still need to weathered a bit but its getting there. :running:

[JayKae]

A picture speaks a thousand words... 'nuff said :)

[6297J]

Absolutely beautiful!

[PRB]

Ok, that's a photo of the real plane from Airliners.net, right...?

[warchild]

Ok, that's a photo of the real plane from Airliners.net, right...?

No.. Thats their artwork. See what i meant when i said it was insane??? ( and they think i'm good. Oy Gevalt )
Notice that second hole on the co-pilots side?? that's some of butch's magic. It doesnt exist in the model..

[stiz]

will there be a black panel? :engel016:

[PRB]

Stunning work! :isadizzy:

[Kiwikat]

Could you guys consider killing the 3d knobs on the radios? I really REALLY want to put the RXP GNS430 and some other gauges in there but the knobs are stopping me. I'm sure others would like this as well.

Looks wonderful! :medals:

[Gizmo]

Hey all

Thanks for the kind words they do help drive us along ;)

Ive no idea whats on the chopping block after this i dont think anyone has thought that far ;)

As the goose has a set of _night textures i thought id spend sometime baking out some illuminations for them,as you'll see there not perfect (some shadows get messed up or mirror due to the way the UV space is mapped/mirrored) and this is just a quick test pic but i think its worth spending sometime tweaking up i'll try and get somemore pic up once i make more progress

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/VC_Night_test_2.jpg


Cheers
steve

[jeansy]

steve looking good

[hobofat]

Could you guys consider killing the 3d knobs on the radios? I really REALLY want to put the RXP GNS430 and some other gauges in there but the knobs are stopping me. I'm sure others would like this as well.

Looks wonderful! :medals:

They can't fix the 3d knobs, this is just a texture job. The model isn't editable, and Microsoft only included the DC-3 model in the SDK. But I agree, looks absolutely fantastic.

[Kiwikat]

They can't fix the 3d knobs, this is just a texture job. The model isn't editable, and Microsoft only included the DC-3 model in the SDK. But I agree, looks absolutely fantastic.

I was under the assumption all the default models were part of the SDK. Hehe... oh well. I guess I'll keep using my popup 430.

[RyanJames170]

edited

[VFR Alexander]

that's kind of an bummer
Truly :(.

[SolarEagle]

Impressive shot steve!

[CodyValkyrie]

Guys, you are doing great work. Keep it up!

[warchild]

Truly :(.

I concur. Whats worse though is that even if you could remove the 3D knobs, theres far more going on than just them.
I attempted to upgrade the avionics to the G-1000m and got quite an education. The default gauges in the VC are mapped opposite to their placement in the texture files. By this i mean that instruments on the left of the panel are on the right in the texture files, and instruments on the right of the panel are on the left of texture files. I use FSPanel studio so this is the best i can describe it. I'm sorry. Also, the main panel texture overlays the instrument layer which means the instruments are actually behind the panel facing, peeking through little holes.. This means that if you attempt to add anything like the g-1000 or the wx500, it not only is going to get chipped up into a scheziphrenic nightmare, its mostly going to be hidden behind the panel facing..
Very annoying.. MS really didnt want anyone messing around with this plane at all on any graphical level.

[foreigndevil]

Stunning VC!:medals:

[hobofat]

I'm curious if the team releasing the HD Goose would consider releasing a HD paintkit as well?

I understand the amount of time and personal investment that goes into a project like this, so it is of course understandable if you did not release one. Also, I imagine the file would be pretty large.

I am just thinking that there are a wealth of paints that could go on this beautiful bird and not a lot of time in the day, so opening up the doors via a paintkit would be a boon to the community!

[JayKae]

I have asked the team to reply in here to answer your question

[butchm]

Hi Guys,

I'll be honest, I am not sure which way to go with this request. Steve, Pam and myself started this project in January and its now nearly mid-May and we are still at it. I've put the question to Steve (Gizmo), once I have his thoughts on a paintkit we'll come back to you. Ok?

I am a bit of a hermit and if your interested in following up on the progress of the Ozx HD Goose I'd like to invite all of you to the official update thread over at www.aussiex.org (http://www.aussiex.org)

Look for the Paint and Airplane Alley... in there you'll find a thread on the called 'Centre for Excellence'.

Heck... here it is hehehe http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2621

In the meantime I'll leave you guys with a early detail shot of the exhaust.

Cheers
Butch

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1241194230.jpg

[stiz]

thats just insane :applause:

[foreigndevil]

Superb!

[LuftWayfarer]

Wow! Incredible work! I am a huge fan of the Goose. It's all I fly in FSX.I've done a paint at 2048, I'm shocked to hear you're going twice that in resolution. I've tested all the little quirks endlessly and come up with some strange results. The Goose is by no means a bug free aircraft.

One issue I had for so long was that there was no wake behing the Goose. So after testing contact points in endless combinations I came to the conclusion that all class 4 contact points must be touching water at the same time for the wake effect to display. I can't find any way around having the floats extend/retract and having a wake when the craft only sits on one wing float at a time on water. So I gave up. Do you guys know anything else about this?

Does your flight model guy know of a way to reverse the position of the tail gear lock lever in the VC? I was just going to label the lever opposite to fix it.

I won't get into the lights issue.

Always a work in progress but here's my Goose. However these jpeg's just don't show her true charm. I'll post an interior pic tomorrow. BTW your guys' night cockpit textures look incredible. I wish I could match that quality, just unbelievably realistic and well lit!!!!!
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg154/luftwayfarer/2009-5-8_19-57-40-698.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg154/luftwayfarer/2009-5-13_2-40-52-106.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg154/luftwayfarer/2009-5-12_3-24-11-827.jpg

[dharris]

Now surely you are going to share this fine paint with the rest of us aren't you, you know, PLEASE!!:ernae:

[butchm]

Hi Guys,

I was just planning to post a WIP shot and... very nice paint mate, I like the weathering and the overall scheme.

The cockpit shots are from Steve (Gizmo) one of the most talented painters I have had the pleasure of working with and as you can see its top shelf stuff. The bump mapping is in itself a work of art and its the incredible work of Gizmo.

The FM is being completely reworked from the ground up. So not only the flying part has been updated the ground and water handling has been fully reworked as well. I've just been testing the RC1 of the FM which Pam sent me today and let me tell you, its night and day compared to the original. Pam has done a 'masterful' job, completely surpassing what I thought was possible with the Goose.

In addition to that there will be a 'special performance' version too using an uprated version of the R985... that's all I am saying for now. :jump:

Here's a screenie of one of the schemes that will be included, just to wet your appetites.

Cheers
Butch

'Aussiex Painter'


http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1242494597.jpg

[dharris]

When released how are we to acquire this fabulous product?

[warchild]

It'll be available from the OzX download center..http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?autocom=downloads.

Ya might want to just pop in there and look around. There's lots of nice things there..

[JorisVandenBerghe]

Magnificent :applause:! Can't wait, the Goose was (and remains) one of my favorite default aircraft.

Do you plan on reworking the Caravan too ? Too bad there isn't an amphibious Caravan model anymore in FSX, would have loved it. It would have made for some interesting missions, too.

Good job, all. This is the best news regarding FSX I have heard for a while.

Cheers

Joris

[LuftWayfarer]

As a form of flattery I had to copy your curtain idea, I hope that's okay. The texture of the curtain material doesn't show well at this low res. So I guess the high res will pay off. You guys are doing a great job!

This texure is at default resolutions.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg154/luftwayfarer/2009-5-16_16-30-1-803.jpg

[Milton Shupe]

Pam, Steve, Jay ( I hope I have the names correct),

Your work and dedication is producing jaw-dropping results. This is the kind of project that makes the sim really fun and rewarding. My hat is off to you all, and thank you for the excitement. :ernae:

[butchm]

Pam, Steve, Jay ( I hope I have the names correct),

Your work and dedication is producing jaw-dropping results. This is the kind of project that makes the sim really fun and rewarding. My hat is off to you all, and thank you for the excitement. :ernae:
Hi Milton,

Hello, my name is 'Butch' and I am one of the Ozx painters working on the Goose. The people working on this project are: Steve (Gizmo) 'painter', Pam Brooker 'FM' and myself 'painter'. Jay is our boss, he's Aussiex's 'super multifunction' Admin and he normally works us pretty hard but fair I must add.

Like millions of others, I am a big fan of your own 'legendary' work and I am delighted to be able to toss my own contribution into the hat.

Thank you all for your kind comments, we are all pretty excited with your reception.

I've been in a posting mood and I thought I'd toss another one up for you. This time its a 'slightly used' version of the Goose I am working on.

Enjoy.

Butch

Aussiex Painter

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1242526163.jpg

[JayKae]

lol Butch could not have said it any better myself, I am just an admin, I would not have a single clue as to where to even start :)

[stiz]

you guys are evil, you know that?? :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

stunning job :applause:

[Epsillon]

Those screenshots are totally indecent!

It's like watching Sharon Stone who make-up: you know that this will be muuuuuccchhh better but you're worried about not being able to go back...:costum:
Awesome work!

Stephan

[JoeW]

These shots a fantastic. This is going to be in my hanger ofr sure. Great work.
Joe W
:applause:

[fliger747]

Some confusion exists in some of the terminology above. To be very clear, a turbo engine refers to a piston engine with an induction system utilizing turbocharging. A jet fule burner such as the PT-6 is a TURBINE engine.

The hardest part of the flight dynamic range to do well is the water handling, particularly the transition from displacement taxiing to "on the step". On the water both the Goose and Widgeon were/are highly prone to developing a increasing porpise effect which is dynamically unstable, a friend crashed his this way.....

Cheers: T.

[warchild]

Some confusion exists in some of the terminology above. To be very clear, a turbo engine refers to a piston engine with an induction system utilizing turbocharging. A jet fule burner such as the PT-6 is a TURBINE engine.

The hardest part of the flight dynamic range to do well is the water handling, particularly the transition from displacement taxiing to "on the step". On the water both the Goose and Widgeon were/are highly prone to developing a increasing porpise effect which is dynamically unstable, a friend crashed his this way.....

Cheers: T.

I MAY have to revisit this then. It's a fact i didnt know about.. Water handling on takeoff in calm seas is a dream. I have porpoised "mildly" on landing but unless you make a mistake, she's gentle as can be.. At the moment, Butch wants to lock the high performance version into place and i'll be zstarting back in on the standard model tomorrow, but this ?? Not to worry.. i'll make it right..

[warchild]

Ok correction to my last post. It porpoises at around 80mph ( and i didn't even know it :::LOL:: ) :jawdrop: Love it when something i do surprises me like this..

[oldpropfan]

Wow!!!!!:applause::applause::applause: Words can't really do this justice so I'll just say thank you for the amazing work and I've already cleared a space at the dock.

Al

[warchild]

Wow!!!!!:applause::applause::applause: Words can't really do this justice so I'll just say thank you for the amazing work and I've already cleared a space at the dock.

Al

Heyy.. i'm glad you mentioned it.. I've always got back pressure on the stick when i take off so i never thought about this aspect and it never occurred as the nose was always slightly up.. So i ran a test not touching the stick and sure enough, at 80mph she starts this up and down porpoising..
Mind you, today was a wonderful birthday for me, but this? This is the very best birthday present i could hope for..

[fliger747]

Where the neophythe driver gets in real trouble is with Pilot induced oscillations, where the corrections are out of phase and actually add to the amplitude of the oscillations!

In taking off a seaplane, especially a monohul, Full back pressure is held initially to help ramp up onto the step, then it is relaxed as the aircraft accelerates onto a full planing configuration. it is a fine ballance to find the sweet spot in attitude, as too much nose down and it will plow, too high an attitude and the tail of the hull will drag. Either will significantly retard the takeoff run and might prevent becoming airborne at higher weights. A clever gauge guy might be able to use the spoiler function to simulate this effect. A bigger problem is trying to replicate the sense of climbing onto the step. in a heavily loaded seaplane, proper technique here, in achieving a planing configuration, may make the difference between a sucessful takeoff and no takeoff! A heavy airplane may not have enough power to ever get on the step, displacing too much water.

Some clever work with extra contact points might or might not be able to help here.

Cheers: T.

[butchm]

Good morning captains,

Well work continuous on the Goose and I thought it was time I gave you what is perhaps the last update before release... at least from my Dirty Yellow scheme.

Two more... these piccies are about a month or so old.

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1241739786.jpg

Close up... this is what happens when heat and time work on paint layers... :)

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1241762841.jpg



These are an early build, I've added a few more herbs and spices to make these a bit more interesting paint for you.

It's hard to believe its the default Goose, if I don't say so myself.

Hope you like my paints... not long now. :)

Cheers,
Butch

[stiz]

stunning stuff, wish i could paint like that! :applause: :applause:

[Epsillon]

ART!!! :applause::applause::applause:

[warchild]

I'm not certain i can replicate the procedures that Fliger stated above for water handling in this realease, however.. please be assured that there WILL be an fde revision coming where the behaviours Fliger describes will be replicated to as close to exact as is humanly possibly..
At the moment, i'm down to dealing with details where one unit of measurment can completely throw off something somewhere else, and it's gotten philosophical. I love it :) .. But we need to get this thing released so you folks can enjoy it. Like butch said. it wont be long.. I think personally, they're all making excuses about them taking so long justto disguise how long it's taking me.. :D

[gera]

Wonderful....perfect for a FSAdventureSky Flight!!!! down in the Chilian Lake country!!!!! Magnifico!!!!:ernae::jump:

[butchm]

This one if for you Pam, only because I am already in so much trouble...

I have one more for you but before that I'd like to say Pam has so far been a absolute professional and has taken all I could give in terms of feedback on the FM.

One more thing... as a tribute to one of our own.

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1242526163.jpg


Crusty sun weathered paint. :)

Let's see some of these payware outfits match the TLC that freeware can only give.

On ya Pam.

Cheers
Butch

[SolarEagle]

I wish payware came with textures that good! :icon_lol:

[6297J]

That craquelure effect is wonderful :applause:

I really can't wait for this.

[spotlope]

I wish payware came with textures that good! :icon_lol:

Technically, seems like the Goose is the ultimate payware -- you gotta buy a whole sim just to get it. :icon_lol:

[warchild]

:::LOL:: Butch.. Thats fantastic.. simply fantastic.. you KNOW theres a lot of old mountain rivers that are gonna get well used with that one :D :D ...

[JoeW]

Is it done yet?
Where is it?

[Gizmo]

Is it done yet?
Where is it?

Still W.I.P im afraid :( i can hold my hand up and say that im pretty much the cause of the delays due to RL comitments,i dont wait to throw any dates about but i can assure you its getting done and im sure it will be worth the wait,what also doesnt help just getting it done is the fact that everyone on board is really picky about getting there work done to a high standard and this unforunately takes time and again atm its time that i dont have an abundess of :( so is the banne of freeware devs everwhere im quite sure


anyhows enought of my yapping here another WIP SS ;)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/GHD_WIP_SCHEME_2.jpg

Cheers
Steve AKA Gizmo

[JayKae]

Wow I had not seen that ss yet mate, looking awesome :)

@Joe once it is done we will announce it here of course and you would be able to find it here -->

http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?autocom=downloads

[heywooood]

that Alaska Coastal livery is fandamtastic

[LuftWayfarer]

Gotta say, with every new glimpse your upping the bar. Great work.

I have some contact points that might work as suggested earlier in this thread. Messed A LOT with them over a year and a bit. PM me if you want to try them out. I still can't get the wake to display because of the wing float placement, but it's much improved. Getting on the step feels a lot more realistic with them.

Thanks for doing this for us!

[warchild]

Gotta say, with every new glimpse your upping the bar. Great work.

I have some contact points that might work as suggested earlier in this thread. Messed A LOT with them over a year and a bit. PM me if you want to try them out. I still can't get the wake to display because of the wing float placement, but it's much improved. Getting on the step feels a lot more realistic with them.

Thanks for doing this for us!

Thanks Luftwayfarer..
hopefully i'll be uploading a video tonight if i dont fall asleep first. I think you'll like what you see :D ( and yes, the floats contact points were a PAIN to do ::lol:;.. I found that i had less than an inch of leeway between the plane sitting right on the ground and in the water,, and the plane crashing on acceleration or landing on the water.. )

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2009-4-28_22-16-49-53.jpg

[warchild]

@ Butch.
Here's one right back atcha my friend..:jump:..

I cant exactly take a picture and show anyone the results of my work.. I'm afraid that try as i might, i just cant make numbers any more exciting to look at than they already are, which is to say, well......
So this is as close as i can come to that picture.. I hope it works ( cuz i dont know how to do this ) and i hope you all enjoy the flight..
Pam

<object width="580" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LQdbYpTYkzw&hl=en&fs=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LQdbYpTYkzw&hl=en&fs=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="580" height="360"></embed></object>

[warchild]

apologies for the multiples on that. I dont know what i did wrong.. Any enlightenment would be appreciated..
Thanks
Pam

[LuftWayfarer]

Interesting choice in music. Love the oboe though; a soothing sound. It's great that the flight model was worked to display both the wake effect and the spray effect. Is that a custom spray effect? Looks better than the default, unless I'm crazy. The only thing, and it looks kinda funny, is the wingtip floats spray and wake are a bit off but I would guess that is a work in progress FM in the vid.

Nice paint too, has that fresh off the assembly line shine. Nice high res and very colorful considering all the shades of green.

[warchild]

I believe it's actually a default effect. Most modelers use the default fx_wake file. I switched it to use the fx_wake_lx file. sadly, i have no concept of how to program effects so i am not able to change the way the wake comes off the floats, but i admit, it bothers me as well.. I just dont have the talent needed to change it though..
OH, and the music is Paul Winter Consorts whole earth chant. That real throaty sound you hear is actually an african bush organ made with reeds.. A very unique and wonderful instrument

[LuftWayfarer]

Thanks for that music info, I'll have to check it out.

If you open the aircraft.cfg in the Goose folder using notepad, scroll down to contact points. The series of numbers are set up like this...

point.#=TYPE, Longitudinal, Lateral, Vertical, Damage threshold... and on and on

//Wing Floats
point.7= 4, -2.1, -20.5, -0.6, 1500...
point.8= 4, -2.1, 20.5, -0.6, 1500...

These are my numbers for the wingtip floats, but you just need to change the lateral section in yours. 20.5 for one, and -20.5 for the other seem pretty dead on. Type 4 is a float.

If it really bugs you, that'll fix it.

[warchild]

well no, the floats dont bother me. we compared the sitting stance in the water with several photos of other gooses at various loads and the way it's set now is exact to those photos. heres a decent reference..
http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/grumman_goose.jpg

what bothers me is the effect, which i cant do anything about.. I took the float measurments from the actual blueprints ( a singularly serindipitous find if ever there was one) so those i dont want to change.. but i wish i knew how to change the effect to make it work for the goose..

[LuftWayfarer]

Funny, that pic and another of that plane from the opposite side are the two pics I went by when setting up the way my goose sits in the water.

Back on topic, did you guys go and re draw every rivett on the body? Repaint every screwhead to be clearly defined in HD? That looks like hours and hours of work just to do one part of the plane. That paint flaking looks amazing on that worn down yelow Goose. The Alaskan paint will be hugely popular with the people I fly with. I just can't believe the level of detail you guys are putting into this. After messing with alpha's normal maps, bump maps, I'm just baffled at the smoothness of the body panels. They're usually blocky from default if the alpha is brightened to reduce the shine. How many paints are gonna be released with this package? I've seen several so far, and they all look great. Waiting anxiously.

[warchild]

I'll make any bet our numbers are fairly close then :), at least in tolerances.. I'm afraid i had to scrap the entire MS fde. I guess they believe that horse shoes is a game of accuracy. It was so totally messed up. problem is, in my mind, it's still messed up. I simply dont have the knowledge i need ( nor the time left to live ) to perform all the calculations they totally ignored.. where there should be tables with numbers in them, theres tables, but zip for numbers. hundreds of them.. I could bull dog through it, but it would take me the better part of a year to do it..

As for the paints. Yeah. that was the first thing that clued me in about how absolutely insane these guys are that i'm working with. Not only did they re-make every single rivet on the plane, they then proceded to rivet by rivet, fix the way that light reflects from them.. In the end, what your gonna be getting is pretty much a brand new airplane.. the only thing left in it thats MS is the model and the original textures, and it's all in large format high definition..

Asfor paints?? Good question. I believe there will be six originally, but more may be coming as well..

[Gizmo]

Funny, that pic and another of that plane from the opposite side are the two pics I went by when setting up the way my goose sits in the water.

Back on topic, did you guys go and re draw every rivett on the body? Repaint every screwhead to be clear in HD? That looks like hours and hours of work just to do one part of the plane.

Yep as the guy behind building all the core normal maps i can attest it takes hours on hours....i can only say my Opeth cd collection has had many many run throughs so far on this project

The retexturing section is based on ground up rebuild of the normal maps all done starting with just a blank grey texture,once the rivets,pannel lines dents and everything else is in place on the normal map only then do we start to build the colour schemes using the normals (pre Nv normal map processing) layers as placement ref's,once the colours are in place we trash and dirty things up

Sure its a lot (a lot) of work but i think its worth it and from what i can see looking at other dev's paintkits the work flow is quite diffrent with many of them kicking out normal maps as an after thought by desaturating the diffuse and throwing it throught the Nv normal map filter....

Thanks for the kind words on the work :) the Alaskan scheme is now in the bag and im moving on to finishing up my 3rd scheme for the first pack as there are just 2 repainters on the team this time around we split the scheme load and have done 3 each so 6 schemes in the first package with i guess another 6 to come in a few months time with and expansion,ive been working on somre replacement effects and the start up is done and i'll some move on to having a play with the wave and spray effects

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/160873/OzxHD_Goose_1.jpg

Cheers
Steve

[Fireball6]

Simply fantastic Gizmo - once again the Team give us a total new plane. :applause:

[BananaBob]

If I haven't done props for this one yet, I'll sure have to now, looking sweet! :applause:

[warchild]

The only prop we've been able to get a confirmed identity for thats used on the goose is a 23 vane 3 blade hartzel. the problem we had was that theres more than one 23 vane hub thats made by hartzel, and they always sell hubs and blades seperate to allow for customization for a specific application. The Original company, Hamilton Standard went out of business a long time ago, but the prop they designed for use on tyhe goose ( HS 3D40 ) was designed for the early 300hp engines and couldnt take the stress of the higher powered engines.. At least, this is my belief. I havent been able to find much definitive history on the props, and can only speculate knowing the props limitations..

[butchm]

Hi Everyone,

Props, I did some changes to the effect of the prop with the Army scheme I did.

Here ya go...


http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1243631234.jpg


Hope you like em... not long now....

Butch

[butchm]

http://www.fsfiles.org/imagehost/uploads/1243709471.jpg

[stiz]

so how many gigs is the psd file? 1 ...2 .. 3 ..? :icon_lol:

lovly stuff :applause: :applause: :applause:

[LuftWayfarer]

Do you bug them, Making them feel presured?

Do you remain silent and hold on to the anticipation, making them wonder if there's interest in their project?

Nah, you just pop in from time to time, and remind them they're making something people will love.

How's this project going? Still on the edge of my seat here. I know of two communities I belong to that are excited about this one! Again, looks great!




Warchild, I guess I should have read a few more posts. I guess I didn't need to tell you how contact points work.:running:

[CBris]

Those guys are THE painters. I am a mere "dabbler".

Hats off guys!

[JT8D-9A]

Uber high quality. Thanks for not selling her :ernae: Steve's normal maps are looking brilliant.

[yago9]

Very nice..but it,s more than a month since I saw the first shots..No to sound impatient but how long it takes to do a repaint ? I may not be that detail oriented but I could probably do about fifty decent ones in that time frame. What,s the hold up ? They look very good , roll them out one at the time..:applause: " It,s comming in May "..nobody in FS cares about deadlines anymore.

[SolarEagle]

Very nice..but it,s more than a month since I saw the first shots..No to sound impatient but how long it takes to do a repaint ? I may not be that detail oriented but I could probably do about fifty decent ones in that time frame. What,s the hold up ? They look very good , roll them out one at the time..:applause: " It,s comming in May "..nobody in FS cares about deadlines anymore.

Your work has nothing in common with what they are doing, so you can hardly compare development times. I don't think I've even seen speculars on your stuff let alone new bump maps, interiors and flight models. These are the highest fidelity paints ever released for flight sim, yet look at the content of your message.

[dharris]

Looking at the detail that they have obtained, and it is spectalular, I hope I don't need to go out and buy another Cray computer to run her. Fantastic work, it is just these kind of things that are worth waiting for. Good luck.:medals::medals:

[JayKae]

@yago, it is a team effort, it is not just a repaint that is being done as such, the Goose will get a completely new FM as well. We are a freeware mob and real life always takes priority of course and even though the project is more than alive and well, some days more work is done than other days :) Thanks for your kind comments guys !

[Gizmo]

Those guys are THE painters. I am a mere "dabbler".

Hats off guys!


Chris way undersells himself infact his Ec135 paints where the main reason i got into repainting for FSX so you can blame him for pretty much all my work ;)

hes also very good at quality control and his posts over at Ozx have made me rethink and re-sort a few things on this project :ernae:

Thanks for all the kind words and support guys im sure you'll be happy with the end results just hang in there a little while longer we want this out there as much as you do but it wouldnt do any of use any good to rush the last 5% just to have to patch it or make ppl redownload 1.1 a day or 2 after because we missed some silly little thing because we rushed the last little bit

Cheers
Steve

[Lionheart]

Awesome work! I am patiently waiting (trying anyways) on this masterpiece.

Take your time. Dont let us rush you.

:ernae:

Bill

[heywooood]

I have to say I'm waiting for the all new Goose too...

cant wait to try the new FM...:icon29:

[warchild]

Hope ya like it :) please let me know.. I tried to keep it directly on the line between easy to manage and yet as accurate as possible. I'd like to think i came close to that, but, we'll see :D..
Pam

[yago9]

Your work has nothing in common with what they are doing, so you can hardly compare development times. I don't think I've even seen speculars on your stuff let alone new bump maps, interiors and flight models. These are the highest fidelity paints ever released for flight sim, yet look at the content of your message.

Right, a team of people needs half year for a bump and specular map.Give me a break.Two rivets per day? It takes some time until you have the first one made,true but after that it,s "assambly line".Having a new model built from scratch could take less than this.Plenty of time to shot and edit video clips with a pretty much done deal I see.This teasing streched for months and years it,s just getting to be the norm and I hate it. Wich one is the worse delayed ? Alphasim Jaguar ? I say show your stuff when it,s close to release date.What,s the point in showing off something that would be released sometimes into a very distant future?!..Just to collect some "wow"s and "looking forward to this man " and a million " When " ? "Highest fidelity paints ever released " are you kidding me ?It,s ok, if you made them fast and easy enough.. but after a flight or two they just end up forgotten like any other " best ever " add-on. And the anxiety for new stuff takes over again so keep them flowing faster, life it,s short.

Sunnybird, I don,t think your even remotely qualified to argue with anybody about sharing FS files or worse , painting issues.Specialy not with me.I dont recall flying your files ,ever! Do you have any made and shared ? Just curious to try them on,you sure sound like a pretty talented guy.

[Gizmo]

Hey yago

I dont want this to turn into a bitch thread but come on dude we do this for fun and in our "spare time" sometimes that a free full weekend and sometimes its just a few hours in a week,we all have full time jobs/bussiness to run & familys and im afraid all those things line up way before FSX in my life it might be diffrent if we where taking pre-orders & your cold hard cash but your bitching about the delayed release of freeware come on plz

Add to that we are a team spread over 3 totally diffrent time zones (UK/US/AU) which in itself has added an vast amount of communication lag so to say....What the hack why am i even trying to justify this stuff to you....

[JayKae]

Indeed, we did not put this out here to collect wow's etc. so by all means delete the thread moderators, we put this out here to share with you all the fun and enjoyment we are getting out of creating this package, nothing more, nothing less, we do not have to market our product for it is a free product but we have to conform to our own, self-set, high standard over at OZx. I am not here to defend my team, nor my product, I am here to share my enjoyment for a hobby which I so dearly love and have loved for almost 30 years now. Yago, you do what you do and we are fine with that and have no comment about that, you are, of course entitled to your opinion and I respect that, the one thing I have a problem with is the 'venom in your tone'. I ask myself why that is and I would be quite happy to discuss this in private if the situation calls for it but I beg of you to not make this thread about you. I have always valued your work and respected you as a designer of quality stuff and I am not here to aggrevate the situation, just so you know :)

[bushpilot]

Indeed, we did not put this out here to collect wow's etc.


There's nothing wrong in collecting WOW'shttp://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif. Keep up the great work!

[dharris]

Seems to be a slight difference of opinion here, Yago. The key here is "quality freeware". It is worth waiting for, and as far as teasing, people are really interested in the progress. As to your comment ""Highest fidelity paints ever released " are you kidding me ?It,s ok, if you made them fast and easy enough.. but after a flight or two they just end up forgotten like any other " best ever " add-on. And the anxiety for new stuff takes over again so keep them flowing faster, life it,s short." I don't know about you, but in my own case, when I find a near perfect model, I keep it and use it for the long haul. When I come across a freeware model I like, I try it, use it and if I like it enough it is permanent. When I look at my addons, if the file has not been used much, it goes to a "hangar file" to be used in the future, maybe. The good stuff, will remain active. Judgiing by the looks of what these folks are doing, this will be a keeper. If frame rates take a hit, still stays. One payware that I have, still hits my system kind of hard, Lionheart Creations Epic, but it is a keeper, and I will continue to keep using it. I don't mind waitng for a quality model, especially since it is freeware, done by people that truely enjoy what they are contributing to, it shows. Like I said, this is just my point of view. Speed doesn't translate into quality. Okay, I am off my soapbox and going out into the beautiful sunny day here in Farmington and cut the grass. You all have a great day.:ernae:

[MCDesigns]

Guys, please keep it civil, no criticizing and stay on topic.

Looking great guys, please keep us posted!!!

[Cag40Navy]

is there going to be a stationary float model? the one that the float dont retract.

[MCDesigns]

is there going to be a stationary float model? the one that the float dont retract.

They are just redoing the textures, there is no option to change the model.

[2Low]

WOW! If you want to collect WOWs I'll give you a few...wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, WeeeeOW! If you are not collecting them pass a few on to A2A and the Tongass Fjords people they make me go WOW too.

Awsome stuff and I look forward to the release. Better be phenominal or I'll ask for my money back:icon_lol:.

:icon29: to all.

[CBris]

I am sorely tempted to bite :stop:

[gera]

Guys, please keep it civil, no criticizing and stay on topic.

Looking great guys, please keep us posted!!!

Great....this guy tries to destroy someone´s work or make fun of it at least, and freeware of all things, and you don´t close the thing!!!!!!!....I write about a "Fiction Mission in Iran" and two posts later you close it alleging "possible Havok in the forum for it might give someone heart trouble or something"....give me a break Sheriff Man!!!!!!:pop4::pop4::isadizzy::isadizzy::isadizzy ::isadizzy:...why is that????..ummm, ummmm, we need a new Sheriff or Demo-Guru!!!!!!

[MCDesigns]

If you can't see the difference, fine gera, you get your wish!

Guiys sorry for the negativity that certain members have displayed, please feel free to keep us posted when the project is released, most of us are looking forward to it.