FS9 Gmax Model Convert to CFS2 Questions

[Milton Shupe]

Maxstuka's thread about adding lights below prompted this thread.

We will have the Grizzly ready shortly for release. I am willing to better prepare a gmax model for a CFS2 conversion.

So, what should I keep in mind to ensure that all the lights and animations work in CFS2?

Do keyframed animations like flaps and landing light deployment transition okay? Or, should these use standard FS animation tags without keyframes? Some of the lights here are modeled in gmax, some by effects in the "dp" file (.air fle for us). Will these work?

Will modeled ordinance work if properly named even if not animated? If so, looking at the pictures, can you tell me the naming conventions?

How about VC animations like the ECU levers, stick, etc?

I will gladly setup a model specifically for a CFS2 conversion if I know the keys to help it work better.

Lastly, this model does not have LOD models. Are we wasting time even thinking about it for CFS2?

Thanks for any input.

Here's a few shots of two of the five models coming.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/aaf-1.JPG

http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/aaf-2.JPG

http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/navy-2.JPG

http://www.flightsimonline.com/mas/navy-4.JPG

[OleBoy]

Very nice Milton. She's looking finer than fine:ernae:

[OBIO]

Milton


The Griz looks amazing! Can't wait to fly it in CFS2 and FS9.

I will do my best to answer some of your questions..some of them are over my head as I am clueless about animation/key frame stuff.

Multi-Lod shouldn't be an issue with this plane as it will most likely be used as the player plane...and as this was an attack aircraft, it may well have been used singly. Being a Gmax based model, as are your D-18 and Howard 500, frame rates should be pretty good...I know that your D-18 and Howard, in converted CFS2 form, yeild very very nice frame rates even without being multi-lod.

Modeled on weapons do not work in CFS2. If you can remove the weapons from the model and create an MDL without the weapons that will be a huge plus....otherwise someone with tons of SCASM editing skills will have to extract a SCASM file from the MDL and hand edit out the weapons, then recompile an MDL file. Guns, bombs and rockets in CFS2 are controlled via the DP file, and not via the MDL file.

VC animations...sometimes they make the transition when converted, sometimes not. I don't know what the difference is between those that do and those that don't...again, I am not knowledgeable with animation coding.

Having converted your D-18s and Howard 500 to CFS2, I can say that none of the external animations were lost...well, the landing lights on the D-18 are froze in the up position, but the main animations (rudder, elevator, landing gear, airelons, doors) all work superbly after the conversion. Gmax models, from my experience, are more likely to convert with the main animations intact.

I am sure there will be someone along who can give you a better insight into CFS2 animation set up stuff.

OBIO

[Gramps]

Milton, you'll have to change some stuff around to get it to work in cfs2.


None of the fs9 vc tags will work in cfs2. You'll have to use "exterior" tag names to get anything to work. So anything with an exterior part name you can make work, anything that don't won't.


The landing light will have to be also renamed. Will have to use the landing gear for it.

I think most external parts can use either keyframes or just the fs naming to get to work. Really can't remember anymore.

[Milton Shupe]

Ah, okay ... thanks for that information. One of the five models is "naked" so just a change of the pilot and a few animation tags should do it. I really appreciate the help. :jump:

EDIT2: This raises another question. What to do about the 6 machine guns in the nose and turrets, and the 75mm canon? Do they stay so that you can add them?

EDIT: OBIO, re: D18S landing lights ... I also made FS2002 versions of all of our aircraft that used landing gear animation tags for the landing light deployment, and rudder tags for the castoring tailwheels. You must have used the FS2004 versions. Anytime anyone is converting one of my models, just let me know what you need and I will try to change it to accommodate CFS2.

[dvslats]

EDIT2: This raises another question. What to do about the 6 machine guns in the nose and turrets, and the 75mm canon? Do they stay so that you can add them?

First off I'd like to say what a fine job you have done on the Griz'.
As for the guns, if you mean the visual appearance on the model, I do not think anything has to be changed from what you already have. A .dp file will give it the ammo type, rotation, and elevation for this sim. The player aircraft can only utilize the forward firing weapons, but having the plane set to fly as AI aircraft...turrets will take full advantage of the data in the .dp file ie, tracking targets/threats to the limit of the rotation and elevation. :ernae:

[bearcat241]

Nice Job Milton...looking forward to this as a CFS2 addition. :icon29:

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for the kudos and the help. One final question: Do you as converters to CFS2 see any performance differences, or gains or losses based on whether the model is compiled/exported for FS2004 versus FS2002. I know of the potential xml added animations loss if using FS2002 exports, but what else?

Thanks

[bearcat241]

The performance differences are simply relative to the more advanced methods used in FS2004 flight modeling. This allows for a more immersive experience for civie sim pilots. Some of these extras in FS9 dynamics can sometimes be a hinderance to CFS2 performance, especially for AI. But on a positive note, these extras can be easily trimmed out of any FS9 FDE to make it suitable for CFS2 AI and player use. So don't worry about that at all...we've got your back. :wavey:

[Milton Shupe]

Ok :ernae: I appreciate that.

[Milton Shupe]

First off I'd like to say what a fine job you have done on the Griz'.
As for the guns, if you mean the visual appearance on the model, I do not think anything has to be changed from what you already have. A .dp file will give it the ammo type, rotation, and elevation for this sim. The player aircraft can only utilize the forward firing weapons, but having the plane set to fly as AI aircraft...turrets will take full advantage of the data in the .dp file ie, tracking targets/threats to the limit of the rotation and elevation. :ernae:

Thanks for that heads-up. In order for the turrets to rotate and change elevation, do I need to provide some kind of animation, or name them a certain way? They are not currently animated.

[thicko]

Milton,
Flap keyframe animations will work in CFS2 if you re-name the part adding: _key to it. Like: l_flap_key,r_flap key. If your Grizzly has basic split flaps just remove the animation and leave the name as l_flap or r_flap. The sim will use the data in the CFG for the degrees. Also it is not hard to add LOD's to the MDL, once the main model is working in the sim. It is a pain to correct multipule LOD errors. At least do a simple non-textured tube as LOD_10. If you want more LOD info PM me.
Cheers Thicko
Cheers Thicko

[bearcat241]

No, no turret animation needed. The sim engine uses gun vectoring data from the dp's gunstations to track and "rotate" gunfire from aircraft turrets to enemy aircraft. Its more or less an "implied animation", but not really a visible rotation of the gun, just the gunfire. And this only applies to AI aircraft, which you can't get close enough to anyway to see any turret rotation if it were available. When they're tracking and shooting you, you don't notice where the turret is pointing, just the gunfire.

[Milton Shupe]

Okay, thanks for that quick response Bearcat. Appreciated.

[jhefner]

Just personal opinion, but the main things to check are whether the flight dynamics files work correctly in FS2002 and CFS2; remove any hanging weapons, and have someone develop the .dp file for you. You can either reference "standard" bombs and missiles in your .dp file, or develop your own in gmax. (There is a version of MDLC that then converts them to the format used by weapons.)

MDLC does a great job of converting from FS2004 to FS2002 and CFS2; as others stated, most, but not all the annimations usually work.

The other thing to check out are the gauges. I am guessing XML gauges won't work in CFS2; a CFS version might include a model file converted with MDLC, a .dp file, and the gauges that don't work replaced with standard CFS2 gauges.

I think all of the textures that work in FS4 will work in CFS2. Sound files may not work; although I think you could alias it to a stock CFS2 aircraft in the CFS2 release.

A thousand thank yous for thinking of us FS2002 and CFS2 folks. I am working on a much simplier model; developing it for FS2004; but making it usable in FS2002, and adding weapons for CFS2. I know it is not easy.

-James

EDIT: If you need a FS2002 test pilot, I stand ready with a steely gaze, helmet chinched tight, and parachute at the ready; having also FS2004 to compare it to. OBIO could probably do a better job helping with the .dp file, and test flying it in CFS2.

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks jhefner.

I will not be doing the conversion as I do not have CFS2 or the appropriate tools or knowledge. I do want to make it as workable as possible while I still have the code open and fresh.

I will look to Bearcat, OBIO, or whomever wishes to prepare it for CFS2.

The panel gauges are all xml.

Curtiss Wright R-3350 Sounds are by Lawdog and I'm fairly certain these sounds are available for CFS2.

The flight model should not be an issue for FS2002.

I appreciate you input on this. Thank you.

[erufle]

Damn fine lookin' plane. makes me want to throw out the old lady and go to bed with her.

Dadgummit, the bananas are not up on the smilies page! :icon_lol:

[Milton Shupe]

Just a quick update on the FS2002 version. I have completed this conversion and am happy to report that "everything" works great in FS2002. :jump:

[DeathFromAbove]

Although turret rotation is possible for AI, which does add immersion.

Very cool plane Milton, Thanks a bunch.

[bearcat241]

Although turret rotation is possible for AI, which does add immersion...

Yes its possible, but only expedient if a player flying an intercept has the time and appetite for screenshots in the middle of a gunfight. Otherwise, with regard to immersion, you're moving so fast in real time fighting trying to avoid the tracers from the defensive fire of the target that even if they are animated, you're never really certain which way the turrets are pointing as you're aiming for vital areas trying to take the target down. As an attacking interceptor, fixation with the target's turret rotation will get you killed in a real fight.

But speaking on a designer's viewpoint, Milton is an FS designer who has graced us with a special treat from the FS production line. That's his specialty. We wouldn't want to burden him with anything unnecessary that would delay the release to CFS2.

[whitehawk_2009]

Did this ever pan out? I looked through the US Aircraft section, but didn't find anything.

:bump:

WH

[bearcat241]

Still in the oven you might say. I finished the conversion package months ago, but now i'm working on learning how to add additional lod's to the model in Gmax in my spare time. Also experimenting with doing the same in scasm. The multi-lod setup is good for high framerates. I just might finish this phase of the project in this lifetime. :running: :icon_lol:

[whitehawk_2009]

Ok, thanks for the update.

WH

[crashaz]

Found these cockpit shots for the F5F
http://uscockpits.com/Early%20Fighters/Early%20Fighters.html

:wavey: