Assistance request... Landclass & Mesh

[MaskRider]

Hiya guys!

Been away from the public side of simming and scenery for a while but I haven't been idle.

Among other things I have been slowly but surely working on a Pacific Air Ferry Route project.

Airfields included are Johnston Island, Palmyra, Christmas Island: Penrhyn, Aitutaki, Tongatapu, Norfolk Is, Sydney; Kanton Is, Nadi, Tontouta, Plaines deGaiacs, Townesville.

Some are new and some are complete reworks of older ones.

I have been working my way south and west along the eastern most of the 2 Air Ferry routes and have just gotten to Norfolk Island. Unfortunately, the CFS2 version of Norfolk is a mess and really needs a good land class (?) and mesh rebuild before sticking the airfield on it.

I am willing to do it myself but have only limited (with a small "l") experience with such methods.

What I am looking for is a partnering up with someone who can either do the LC work themselves or else who has interest, know how, patience and willingness to walk me thru at least one of the airfield locations- such as Norfolk Island.

Anyone so inclined who might be interested in collaborating on this project please let me know.

There are a couple of other locations that could use a good working over, too.

I think I have most of the location and mapping info that would be required.

Cheers,
Chris

[xavierb]

Hi MR,

Glad to see you back. I am currently very overloaded with real life and finishing pending projects, but at least I can point you to the tools needed.

There are two options:

- the simplest one is EZLandclass, but with it you only can modify the landclass, but you can't play with mesh.

- the more complete (and, of course, complex, buggy and nerve cracking) is Ground2k. SdC is the expert and has made a must-have tutorial for it:

http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2_tutorials.htm

I warn you that you have to follow exactly the tutorial: Ground2k is very very buggy and it is easy to ge despaired. But the results are worth of it.

Best regards,

Xavier

[GuyBoullenger]

Hi MR,

Glad to see yoou back with another great project !
:ernae:

I am particularly interested in New caledonia airfields as I have been there, years ago. I am affraid the CFS2 New Caledonia mesh is not that good, though.

Guy

[MaskRider]

Hi and thanks Xavier. I have G2K and am somewhat familiar with how it works. As for EZLandclass- I went and got it- only to find out that the version of Excel on my puter- Office95- will not handle EZLC's updated Excel file format- Office 97 or later- so I broke down and purchased a much discounted copy of Office 97Pro from Amazon and will install when it arrives.

I also retrieved Sdc's G2K-CFS2 tutorial (as well as other stuff from his excellent selection) and will work with it as best I can until my Excell97 and EZLC are up and running.

Howdy Guy, yes the stock mesh leave a lot to be desired at New Caledonia. Up until recently I had never bothered much with the custom mesh available for New Caledonia- that by Rolf "VF2_Rolf" Keibel- mainly because my old rig didn't handle it well from a frame rate standpoint.

But after recent upgrades to the system I went ahead and reinstalled all of Rolfs Pacific mesh as well as Rhumbaflappy's Ocean flattens. They run and look great (except for a couple of weird little exception) and I am slowly reworking some- mostly Dutch East Indies and Philippines- of my old airfields- to make them fit in a bit better with the newly enhanced mesh. There's always something.

You might try Rolf's New Caledonia mesh on for size- along with Rhumba's flattens- they really make New Caledonia look great.

BTW- I got some nice mesh for Formosa, too. But it doesn't look as though Richards Pacific Ocean or SEAsia flattens cover Formosa. Does he have a set that does?

Cheers,
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Maskrider,
Glad to hear you're back in the saddle.
CFS2 has two "Zones" for Landclass; let's call them B and H.
H is for the Pacific, the texture filenames are 0xxHsu1.bmp
B is for the rest of the world, filenames are 0xxHsu1.bmp
I've worked out the mapping of all LC values only for B.
If you provide me with the rough coordinates of the area you want to modify, I'll set up the ground2k project for you and fill it with the stock values. Then you can play around with it as much as you like. Note: we can cover huge area's with relative ease.
Can't help with the mesh (yet), but I can tell you I'm developing a method to flatten the lakes and oceans and also to make sure rivers only run downhill.... That will be the final part of my scenery project.

[MaskRider]

Thanks SdC.

I will get that information to you as soon as I can- hopefully over the weekend sometime.

After reading thru your tutorial- I am encouraged to see that it is easy enough to make an existing CFS2 location completely disappear.

I have noticed in my island airfield building that many times the lighter colored water representing the lagoon and shallow water surrounding an island is several miles away from where the ground part of the island is resides.

When I check the actual location it always turns out that the shallow/lagoon water is in the correct location and the land is out of whack. Several of the islands in this project- including Norfolk are mislocated this way so I am happy that you tutorial covers the procedure right off the bat.

Another little twist is that in most cases CFS2 atoll locations are flat- 0 altitude- so moving them won't leave behind any pesky elevated water that needs to be dealt with- I imagine it can be flattened with a simple Area16N using FSSC.

CFS2's Norfolk Island though- has elevation. So, moving it will leave some elevated water behind.

Ideally I want to make elevated mesh that covers the actual Norfolk location. I used to know how- I should still have the tools on the HD some place.

Anyway, thanks again for the offer of help and I'll be back to you.

Chris

[SdC]

Hi MR,
The way to solve those elevation issues is to create Exclusions in the scenery.cfg, like Giorgio did for Malta.
I don't know (haven't tried) to make existing islands with shorelines/roads/rivers disappear; so far I've been a long way from the Pacific....

[bobhegf]

MR, you did a 1943 Henderson Field did you ever upload it?

[MaskRider]

Nope. Its sitting up in the cupboard firmenting and gathering dust.:d

I havent touched it in sometime.

It is close to being in the can- no major issues left. I still need to rework the bomber strips over at Koli point and finish Ondonga over on New Georgia Island. If memory serves, that will complete the GSL upgrade to my Solomons pack.

Lordy only knows when it will happen. I am just doin a little here and a little there- no frantic pace or tunnel vision focus about any of it. This Pacific Air Ferry Route project is fun. There are some nice new airfields in it.

If you want I could send you what I have for Henderson/Lunga Point- and you can play around with it.

Chris

[bobhegf]

I am still learning to paint and also am doing a campain that covers the missions flown from Aug 20 42 to to Oct 9 42. If you could scend it I will see what I can do.If nothing more it will be a learning exp for me.

I ordered PSP but when I received it the CD was droken so I am now waiting for a replacement.

Thunderboy posted a pic of what he thinks might be fighter one. He said he wasn`t sure but from an other pic that I have seen it looks like it.The pic looks like it was taken just before they moved the fighters to fighter one.

[bobhegf]

Forgot to say thinks for all the hard work you have done.Take a brake, if anyone deserved it you do.

[MaskRider]

Hiya SdC

This post ifs for you or anyone else in the know about such things.

I have been plugging away for a goodly part ofthe day on Norfolk Island.

I got a map made for use in G2K with all the corner coordinates and such.

I am trying to get as far as I can on my own.

The location is a weird one. Rhumba's SWPac flatten leaves a nice raised area at the proper location- but it doesn't really fit the outline or elevation profile of the island. So, I will have to "overide" that particular portion with my own elevated mesh for Norfolk.

I am having a dickens of a time recreating all of the material that I once used when experimenting around with SRTM(?) mesh.

I have the tools still and a bunch of bgls that I made and I have a bunch of *.HGT files that I down loaded from somewhere..

Bur WHERE?! Hehe, I have been looking around all over and can't find the web site that I used to use or a short cut to it in any of my vast library of FS favorites and bookmarks.

Where can I download get the HGT files?

If I remember correctly the place I used to go had a map where you identified the location and then you went somewhere else and downloaded the *.HGT file that you wanted.

Also, I can't seem to find the instruction that I thought I used to have that told me how to manipulate the HGT files thru the various tools used in the process.

Thats it. Thanks.

Chris

[SdC]

The files can be downloaded here: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/
I haven't been doing much on mesh, but FSTerrain by Martin is very useful.
I think you'll find problems trying to overrule Rhumba's Flattens; these are Area16 flattens and overrule the Mesh.... You could try making Exclusions...

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC. OK, yeah, I hear you about the flattens and the excludes. They're gonna have to get attended to.

I tell ya though, at the moment I am a bit perplexed.

I have "rediscovered" the knowhow required to create the mesh bgls and thanks to you I have rediscovered the link to the hgt files.

So I have created a few experimental meshes here and there and all is well- except that the one that I am creating at Norfolk isn't showing up. I have disbled everything scenery wise except the default scenery and still the CFS2 Norfolk Island looks like CFS2 Norfolk Island- a mild swelling in the surrounding ocean. It should be much more pronounced as it sticks out of the water at a very rakish angle.

I thought I had discovered the problem when I noticed that the compression for the bgls was taking 0 time and the resulting bgl was only coming out as a 16kb file. I finally figured out that I had used version 1 instead of version 2 and that the version one hgts for Norfolk were virtually empty.

After downloading the Version 2 HGTs the compression took considerably longer- as I would expect on my old clunker- and I ended up with a 1MB bgl- much more like it.

Nevertheless, when I stick that new Norfolk bgl into the game- nothing is changing. And something should be changing.

These are the only two HGTs files available for the area. Norfolk Island is the only thing in sight for hundreds of miles. So, I am pretty certain that I have the right HGTs.

I am using LOD9 and its working everywhere else just fine.

If anyone is interested, here are the coords for what will be the crossing point of the two runways at the correct location of Norfolk Island. The CFS2 Norfolk is visible a couple of miles away.

S29 02.52 E167 56.38

The two HGTs I am using are:

S29E167 and S30E167

If anyone wants to download these two HGTs and create there own mesh bgl please do and tell me how it goes- remember to use Version 2 - the link posted above by SdC.

I uploaded my version of the bgl to my website and heres the link (http://www.geocities.com/crismahn@sbcglobal.net/Norfolk9.bgl) in case anyone wishes to play with it.

I am sure that there must be a simple reason- something basic that I am missing.

Chris

[SdC]

There IS something wrong with the bgl, just open it in TMFViewer and you'll see what I mean. Better use fsterrain to check out if the HGT files are ok.

[MaskRider]

I have FSTerrain but it isn't real clear to me just how I would go about checking an HGT file with it. Which menu command??:ques:

Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

The SRTM V2 files still have some problems.

The files still have voids where data is missing. The waterbody flatten data is quite rough... and unless it fits our land polys closely, we'll still have water "cliffs" along some land edges.

A utility by Luis Sa named "Dem2BSQ" was freely released by PTSim. It does several things. It can change SRTM files to "BSQ" files. BSQ is the least significant byte format we normally use in mesh creation.
Then the BSQ files can have small voids filled by the 'Process BSQ' button.... very handy. The BSQ files can then be converted to bitmaps... then loaded into a paint program for further processing. What I do in PSP7 is to use the magic wand to select the water area. I then modify/expand the selection 1 pixel... then fill with the water color. This expands the water area and eliminates 95% of the water "cliffs".
I then save the bitmap, convert it to BSQ, and I have the finished elevation file.

There is also a BSQ viewer in the program.

=====================

Another problem is the lack of ocean-only SRTM data. I can solve this by creating a 1201x1201 file filled with 0 elevation, and copying/naming them appropriately.

=====================

Now you'd have the properly altered BSQ files to show the land area and any surrounding water areas. You now need to make an INF file, and a batch file to run the whole works with the MS tools.

=====================

INF files need source data to be larger than the destination. So I'd use 4 HGT tiles for a start.
S29E167.hgt
S30E167.hgt
S29E168.hgt ( created from a zeroed 'NULL' file)
S30E168.hgt ( created from a zeroed 'NULL' file)
S29E167.hgt and S30E167.hgt need to be filled/altered with DEM2BSQ and a paint program. The NULL files can simply be renamed as type BSQ.

MR_Mesh.inf:

[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 4
[Source1]
Type = ElevS16LSB
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "S29E167.BSQ"
NumOfLines = 1201
NumOfCellsPerLine = 1201
Lat = -28.00000000
Lon = 167.00000000
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333
CellYDimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333

[Source2]
Type = ElevS16LSB
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "S29E168_NULL.BSQ"
NumOfLines = 1201
NumOfCellsPerLine = 1201
Lat = -28.00000000
Lon = 168.00000000
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333
CellYDimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333

[Source3]
Type = ElevS16LSB
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "S30E167.BSQ"
NumOfLines = 1201
NumOfCellsPerLine = 1201
Lat = -29.00000000
Lon = 167.00000000
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333
CellYDimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333

[Source4]
Type = ElevS16LSB
SourceDir = "."
SourceFile = "S30E168_NULL.BSQ"
NumOfLines = 1201
NumOfCellsPerLine = 1201
Lat = -29.00000000
Lon = 168.00000000
CellXdimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333
CellYDimensionDeg = 0.000833333333333333

[Destination]
DestDir = "."
DestBaseFileName = "MR_Mesh"
UseSourceDimensions = 0
NorthLat = -28.7
SouthLat = -29.4
WestLong = 167.5
EastLong = 168.3
LOD = 9

++++++++++

Note the Multisource INF needs to have Destination Bounds... I used LODCalc to approximate a good LOD 9 distance from the islands.

The Batch file ( "MR_Mesh.bat" )....

resample MR_Mesh.inf MR_temp.tmf
tmfcompress MR_temp.tmf MR_Mesh.tmf
tmf2bgl MR_Mesh.tmf MR_Mesh.bgl
del *.tmf

++++++++++

You need the FS2000 resample, tmfcompress, and tmf2bgl.


===================

Here's a web address for a zip file containing some of the tools, etc...

http://webpages.charter.net/ludowr/MR_Mesh.zip (http://webpages.charter.net/ludowr/MR_Mesh.zip)



Dick

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick,

Jeez, thanks for all of the detailed advice and the link to MR_Mesh.zip.

Some of this is starting to come back to me. I had to go looking thru my old back-up CDs to find all of my old "Mesh Stuff" as the folder was named.

A subfolder of my "Mesh Stuff" folder contains a Zero.hgt file that I did recall gets copied and renamed with the adjoining tile names. I also found some of the BSQ files that you mention- obviously somewhere along the line I had dabbled with them- although I don't seem to have Dem2BSQ lying around anywhere.

My "Mesh Stuff" folder contains the following items- unfortunately I don't seem to have the original "zip" from which all of the "exe"s and "bat"s came from:

Directory of "Mesh_Stuff"

resample.exe
SRTM_1ARCSEC_INTERPOLATE.exe
SRTM_1ARCSEC_TO_BGL.exe
SRTM_3ARCSEC_INTERPOLATE.exe
SRTM_3ARCSEC_TO_BGL.exe
SRTM_3AS_2BGL.bat
tmf2bgl.exe
tmfcompress.exe
tmfmerge.exe
tmfviewer.exe

Thats what it looks like before I throw a couple of HGT files into it for processing. With the HGT files present the first step is to run them thru

SRTM_3AS_2BGL.bat.

The end result of that step is a couple of new files:

SRTM_3ARCSEC_TO_BGL.bat
SRTM_3ARCSEC.inf

The final step is double clicking on SRTM_3ARCSEC_TO_BGL.bat

The end result of that is a mesh bgl genericaly named

SRTM_3ARCSEC.bgl

which one then renames to whatever location is appropriate.

The file list looks like I have most of the essentials that you have mentioned. Now that I just retrieved MR_MESH.zip, I do have everything you mentioned. Thanks. :)

Maybe one day soon I will get around to the G2K/LC part of this project.

Until later and thanks for all,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi again Dick.

I've been out for a good portion of the day since my last post and just sat down to reread and print out your instructive post.

I am looking forward to running thru that whole SRTM -> BSQ -> Water expansion -> BMP -> BSQ -> routine.

I am a bit unclear as to what comes after the final BSQ. Are the BSQs the files that get processed by the the .bat and .inf files into the final mesh .bgl? In other words there is no reconverting back to HGT?

Are the BSQs some sort of intermediate file in the HGT routine that this process allows us to pull out and work with directly?

Anyway, thanks again- I feel like I am getting somewhere!

BTW- I looked at the bmps you provided- Norfolk really doesn't take up much room does it? I had to really look to find that NW tip!

Hopefully I will be posting some screenies soon.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

I loaded up the MR_Mesh.bgl that you provided. It looks awesome!!

Its so cool to look down and finally see something!

I attach a screenie of what MR_Mesh.bgl looks like- jes like the real thang! You can see where the airfield is located (2 crossing runways) as well as the location of the default Norfolk Island on the center left of the screenie.

I am now going to practice reproducing the same results myself. After which I will turn my attention to laying in some new LC/WC.

Thanks again!
Chris

PS I answered my earlier question about whetrher the BSQs were the new "raw" materials in the process. I double clicked MR_Mesh.bat. The bgl in the screenie is the result.

[MaskRider]

Hi Dick,

I spent some time last night and this AM creating my own BSQs and BMPs and BSQs, etc . I have a few questions.

First off, when doing the BMP2BSQ conversion, in this particular case of Norfolk Island and the particular HGT files we are using- which radio button do I choose: 1 ARC SECOND or 3 ARC SECOND?

Secondly, maybe my eyeballs are beginning to glaze over but the bgl that you included in the download seems to appear a bit more "robust" than the ones I am making. Like I said it could just be too much looking at the stuff.

Thirdly, when "processing" the BSQ do you run all three processes as a matter of routine or do you only run the "Interpolate void values" with a passes value of -1?

Finally, for now anyway, please, if possible, turn off all scenery except the SW Pacific Flatten, go to the Norfolk Island location and tell me what you see. That location BTW is:

S29* 02.52'
E167* 56.37'

I get a 4 sided raised area that I am guessing is the location of the Norfolk Island airfield in FS2002(?).

Anyway, the elevation of this miscreant raised area is realworld correct for the high side of Norfolk Island airfield- about 375 feet. Nevertheless, its size and elevation are too large and high for my purposes.

I am planning my flatten for the airfield at 325 feet (the actual altitude of the low side of the real world air field). First off 325' is a much nicer fit on the new mesh. Also my flatten isn't a square. It hugs the outline of the runways "X" shaped footprint much more closely- like the flat ground at the actual place.

So I guess I am either going to have to deactivate the SWPac flatten when running this scenery or else exclude it for the airfield location.

Do you think a regular old FSSC exclude BGL will do the trick- something along the lines that SdC has suggested or will I need to be a bit more innovative? Such as maybe massaging the contents of whatever SWPac flatten bgl covers Norfolk Island?

I will experiment around with the exclude option and see if anything shakes loose.

Cheers,
Chris

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Chris.

The SRTM V2 files are 3 arc second.

The DEM2BSQ "Process"... I just use the -1 interpolate function to fill small voids.

Like Sander, I'm avoiding the use of those flattens if possible. Using this method, you can actually flatten all the large areas within the mesh, eliminating the need for the old Area16N flattens.

The airfield flatten is probably in the SWPac flatten... but it's been so long since I used them....

I'll see if I can get a satellite image of the island in lat-long format for you... so you can use it in Ground2K when you get that far.

Dick

[MaskRider]

Like Sander, I'm avoiding the use of those flattens if possible. Using this method, you can actually flatten all the large areas within the mesh, eliminating the need for the old Area16N flattens.

You mean wee dont need to use the SWPac and SEAsia flattens because the "blueing" out method works better? This is what I was thinking, too. That sounds good to me.

I have an overhead photo and a map that I have scaled to the actual known lengths and locations of the runways on Norfolk. After the two images were scaled and superimposed over each other it turned out that the map outline and the overhead photo outline of Norfolk match each other right down to a gnats behind. So I ended up using just scaled liine image of the map as my initial background image in FSSC.

In the layout screen in FSSC I put in a rectangular polygon (with perfectly square corners- temperary- that covers the location. With my screen capture program I can accurately capture the rectangle covered by the polygon that starts at its NW corner and ends at the SE corner.

From FSSC I already know exactly what the Lat/Lons are of the corner points. Theoretically this should work too as my background map in G2K, shouldn't it? As long as it also covers the outline of the new mesh, of course.

Don't let this in anyway deter you :) from your kind offer to get a satellite image of Norfolk to use as the background map in G2K. The land sat image would likely be the better bet for to insure coverage.

With regard to area16 flattens: my idea for this airfield is that after getting the new LC done in G2K I will next lay in the new airfield using my regular method which includes flattening- with Area16 flatten- the area immediately under the visible/unmasked part of the ground poly. In fact the flatten area shown in the screenie a couple of posts back will likely be the final airfield flatten area.

When you say Sander and you are avoiding using the Area16 flattens you mean using Are16 flattens as large Ocean flattens such as those in SWpac-flatten and SEAsia-flatten, right?

Lastly, WRT "The airfield flatten is probably in the SWPac flatten... but it's been so long since I used them...."
yes, that airfield flatten is in the SWPac flatten. But, as you said, the bluing out method works great so using SWPac flatten at least at Norfolk isn't necessary- except that I do like the way VF2 Rolfs New Caledonia mesha and the SWPac flatten go together. A couple of the airfields in this Pacific Air Ferry project are on New Caledonia.

Don't suppose there is any way to figure out which of the SWPac flatten bgls covers just Norfolk Island and pulll that one out of the mix, is there?

Yesterday I used a little utility called BGLTKit32.exe to see if I could figure out which of the SWPac-Flatten bgls covers Norfolk- but was unsucessful. BGLTKit32.exe will tell you, supposedly, the NE/SW lat/lon coverage of a scenery bgl but I could not find one in the SWPac that seemed to cover the Norfolk Island location. Could be I was too tired to accurately analize the information! :d

Anyway, that is it for now. I am with you with regard to the "bluing" out method for flattening the oceans just in the immediate area of the location of interest. Much cleaner. Thats where the problems arise- not out in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks, Chris

BTW- here is a scaled down look at that map I was planning to use in G2K. But like I said I will not refuse a nice satelite image.

[SdC]

My guess is this is the point where Rhumba jumps in with a lecture about Geographic projection of maps :)
A comprehensive tutorial about that aspect is still not available :(

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC

Hehe, yes, I believe I have read something about such things at one time or another. And am anxious to read them again. :)

I am going to momentarily, for the sake of learning, thro caution to the winds and do the best I can with what I have.

What I did last night- not all night- is to make a couple of top down screenies of the Norfolk Island mesh with low sun angles so I could get a pretty good idea where the elevation stops/starts. Then I superimposed the original map of Norfolk over that screenie to see how well it fits the mesh- using the intersection and length of the runways as the scaling and location point.

I figure that since the length and location of the runways is a fixed and known quanitity as long as I scale things to those- the rest of it should pretty well fit. Especially since Norfolk Island does not cover a very large patch of ground

The map fit pretty well but I did create a new layer upon which I drew a new outline of Norfolk Island that for sure lays outside the mesh and this I will go back into FSSC with as the new background image from which to capture a new G2K map with known lat/lon of the corners.

I am anxious to get into G2K and see what whats. I don't expect perfection this first time around. But I do want to get my feet wet. I printed out a hard copy of your tutorial and will give it another read today sometime. Then this evening I will dive in. Ready or not.

Its go time!

Cheers,
Chris

Forgot to add that I really like your tutorial- it is so much easier to follow and has cleared up several points of confusion that I had. Also, I anxiously await the arrival of my MSOffice 97 so that I can use EZLandClass.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC

Hmmm... any idea why I am getting this message when I try to "Get from MSFS" in EZLC?
:ques:
Chris

[MaskRider]

Never mind. I should have read the readme that came with EZLC.

Doohh!
:redf:
Chris

Oh yeah! I'm going to bed now but this looks like its gonna be fun!:ernae:

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi guys,

Well I am making progress- not quantum leaps but steady. I've run into something that I don't recall running into before:

Everytime I click on Road-River-Lake/New Object and click in the work space I get a "runtime/file not found" error message- see below.

After clicking OK in the error popup window the Polygon/Lines dialogue box comes up, I enter the entries called for in the tutorial- but when I click OK, nothing happens. I have to click on "X" to get the dialogue box to close and after that I am dead in the water. G2K doesn't feeze up- it just stops responding to menu button clicks. I have to exit G2K and then restart and try again- with same result.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks, Chris

[SdC]

Hi MR,
Sounds like the "Path to FS" is not correctly configured.
In g2k, click Parameters -> general parameters.
The path to FS should be something like:
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2
---> NO backslash at the end!!!

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC!

Boy am I glad you are up and on the job.:medals:

Yes, that back slash was the problem.

I did have a bit of a time getting rid of it though. I couldn't get the change to stick. I finally went in and edited the Groun2k.ini file and that took care of it.

Apparently it wasn't getting rewritten. Anyway alls well now!

Next step is pretty much right along with your tutorial- I have to eliminate the default CFS2 version of Norfolk Is.

As it turns out it appears to be a very simple LCpoly(?): no roads, shorelines or rivers. Hopefully it will simply disappear with no problems.

Until later and thanks again!
Chris

[MaskRider]

Just got home. Sat down and quickly made the nasty old Norfolk Island disappear. Now, it is nothing but a bad dream:

Excellent! I love a tutorial and a program that works as promised!

I'm a happy guy!:jump:

Now, of course its time to rebuild anew on the ruins of the old- like a Phoenix- Norfolk Island shall rise again!!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC

Well I am getting there- for a first run thru anyway.

I am having no luck generating and LC.bgl for some reason. I am seeing the LC.raw file but no bgl is getting generated.

Also, have a look at the screenie below- is that what the default CFS2 LC looks like or amd I missing something someplace?

Also, I am not see any texture previews in an of my texture, LC/WC selection screens

I am feeling a little :isadizzy:

Thanks!
Chris

[MaskRider]

Uh Oh!

I was just dog fighting over Norfolk Island and noticed that all of what should have be ground effects- bullet strikes, planes crashing, etc- are instead water effects- white/blue splashes and ripples

Heeellllp Mr Wizard!!

:icon_lol:

Chris

[nooma]

Uh Oh!

I was just dog fighting over Norfolk Island and noticed that all of what should have be ground effects- bullet strikes, planes crashing, etc- are instead water effects- white/blue splashes and ripples

Heeellllp Mr Wizard!!

:icon_lol:

Chris
It sounds like you have chosen "Water" instead of "Land" when you drew the LWM outline.
Easy to change though. Open the file in Ground2K and right-click on the line, and you will be able to change it.

[MaskRider]

It sounds like you have chosen "Water" instead of "Land" when you drew the LWM outline.
Easy to change though. Open the file in Ground2K and right-click on the line, and you will be able to change it.

Thanks Nooma,

I rechecked and both the isand poly and the shore poly are LWN/land.

However, I think you are right. Somehow or other the game is reading "ground" there- even though it 360 feet above the "water". The original location is water. Obviously for some reason the game still thinks that it is water even though visually it appears not to be water- is reacts like water.

When I roll the plane off the end of the runway- hehe- it sinks. Houston- we have a problem! :)

Like I said above also, the color texturing of the "land" the dark olive green is very uniform- there is 0 mottling or variation as one sees at even the most underdone CFS2 location.

I have missed something. Am re-reeading SdCs tutorial as well as the Christian Fumay's "Ground2K for Beginners".

Something will jar loose. A light will come on somewhere. It always does.

:iidea:

Cheers,
Chris

[SdC]

Ok this is because you've radically changed the location of the island.
Each Cell has an Attribute indicating whether a Cell is water or land.
In Ground2k, click the button with the "Square" icon (labelled "Cell Attribute").
Then doubleclick each cell you want to change to land and select "Land".

About the Landclass BGL: that is going to be compiled into another folder than the _3.bgl and _8.bgl files; in the File Settings its the path you entered for "LC and WC BGL's".

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC.

Now I am getting a little confoosed. :)

I have started the project over from scratch and am going to move very methodically and snail-like.

First off and I swear to you that this is so: I searched and searched and searched and searched and there was no LC.bgl generated. Nadda. I looked in the folder that I specified and I ran searches and there wasn't anything. Honest. It would have had the same name as the LC.RAW file except with a .BGL on the end instead, right?

This time around I have designated the same folder path for all bgls. Is that OK?

Ok, I get that the big difference between my Norfolk Island proj and the Sylt project in the tutorial is Norfolk Island is a whole new island, LC, where there currently is nothing but WC and the Sylt project is modification of the LC that is already there.

In order to make Norfolk Island come out right I need to go into each "cell" and change the attributes from Water to Land.

A cell is one of those squares in the grid, right? What about cells that are half outside the land poly and half inside? I don't get that. Will the whole cell give effects that are land- even the half that is water?

:banghead:

Did you have to change any cells from water to land when doing Sylt?

Anyway, thanks. I will play around with it and see what happens.

Until later and thanks,
Chris

[SdC]

Did you actually set LC values in your ground2k?????
If all you did was draw LWM Poly's, you will not get a LC_*.bgl file.

[SdC]

Hi SdC.
.....What about cells that are half outside the land poly and half inside? .....:banghead:

Did you have to change any cells from water to land when doing Sylt?
....Until later and thanks,
Chris

Cells with both land and water should be assigned "land". The partial LWM Poly in that cell will still work as "real" water.

No I did not have to change the attributes in Sylt as the rough outline/location of the new island is the same.
In the Netherlands however (Feature Pack 1), I had to make a lot of "polder" land disappear that was reclaimed well after WWII, and I'm ashamed to say I only fixed that partially, but it is how I found out about this technique....

[SdC]

Did you actually set LC values in your ground2k?????
If all you did was draw LWM Poly's, you will not get a LC_*.bgl file.

Never mind, you wrote you DO get a RAW file so you SHOULD get a BGL for sure... this has me stumped at the moment.

[MaskRider]

Did you actually set LC values in your ground2k?????
If all you did was draw LWM Poly's, you will not get a LC_*.bgl file.

Hehe, well, yes. I though that I did. But obviously I didn't. I don't have clue.

I've tried area attibute, cell attribute and I'm still sinking in the water off the runway and still no LC.bgl.

I am suffering a major communications disconnect somewhere along the line.:d

:isadizzy:

I'm gonna give it a rest and start nice and fresh tomorrow sometime.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

I am missing something, thats all there is to it. I am just not connecting the dots somewhere along the line.

What do you think the deal is with that "blank" green texture? It follows the lay of the mesh and it follows the border of the LWM-land poly fine, but it isn't behaving visually as it should. Is that beacuse it thinks it is water?

Something will click soon. I am sure.

I am gonna get some sleep.

:sleep:

Chris

[MaskRider]

PS The RAW file that got generated is named:

LC_092_042.Raw

Does that sound right?

Chris

[MaskRider]

I couldn't sleep.

I have started from scratch. Here is what my LWM source file looks like after the first save in the tutorial at page 10:

0000 V4.0 (4.10) 3/10/2006 5:08:18 AM C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Norfolk_Island\norfolkis_g 2k1.LWM
0002 issu de C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Norfolk_Island\norfolkis_g 2k.LWM
0010 -28.9768 167.8945 -29.1328 168.106441388518 -28.9768 167.8945 -29.1328 168.1063 -28.9599609375 167.87109375 -29.146728515625 168.134765625
0017 1 1
0018 "C:\PROGRAM FILES\GROUND2K\GROUND2K"
0019 "C:\PROGRAM FILES\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery"
0020 "C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Project Maps\norfolk-g2k-bg01.bmp"
0021 1500 1263
0030 "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery\norfolkis_g2k.Bgl"
0031 "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery\0_norfolkis_exclude.Bgl"
0040 338 742 338 742 13 5 27 20 12 338 4 742 28 338 21 742
0060 0 0 1498 1262 -165.545620868691 -136.223697916674 1699.32911355048 1374.67811999199
0061 1 1
0062 1 1 1
0063 0 0 1
0100 1 0 0
""
""
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
""
""
""
""
""
""
0120 0
0140 0
0150 0
0160 0
0170 0
0180 0
0200 2 0 0
End

:mixedsmi:

At this stage my G2K layout window looks like this and I am just getting ready to proceed with "Making an Island Disappear", page11.

Screenie below shows the layout window:

Chris

Chris

[MaskRider]

I have finished drawing my LWM water poly to remove the CFS2 version of Norfolk Island. This is what the dited LTM source file looks like after save #2 on page 11.

0000 V4.0 (4.10) 3/10/2006 5:23:30 AM C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Norfolk_Island\norfolkis_g 2k2.LWM
0002 issu de C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Norfolk_Island\norfolkis_g 2k.LWM
0010 -28.9768 167.8945 -29.1328 168.106441388518 -28.9768 167.8945 -29.1328 168.1063 -28.9599609375 167.87109375 -29.146728515625 168.134765625
0017 1 1
0018 "C:\PROGRAM FILES\GROUND2K\GROUND2K"
0019 "C:\PROGRAM FILES\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery"
0020 "C:\Program Files\Ground2K\Ground2K\Project Maps\norfolk-g2k-bg01.bmp"
0021 1500 1263
0030 "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery\norfolkis_g2k.Bgl"
0031 "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Combat Flight Simulator 2\MaskRider G2K\scenery\0_norfolkis_exclude.Bgl"
0040 338 742 338 742 13 5 27 20 12 338 4 742 28 338 21 742
0060 0 0 1498 1262 -165.545620868691 -136.223697916674 1699.32911355048 1374.67811999199
0061 1 1
0062 1 1 1
0063 0 0 1
0100 2 1 5
""
""
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
""
""
""
""
""
""
""
""
1 5 -9999 0 0 1024 64 0 1 8 0 0 0 135 7 0 0 1 16 0 0 0 1 1
""
""
""
""
""
""
773.492017867578 79.011170019276
1489.03736571367 79.011170019276
1489.03736571367 1241.43985778412
781.472077508984 1241.43985778412
773.492017867578 86.9912296606822
0120 0
0140 0
0150 0
0160 0
0170 0
0180 0
0200 2 0 0
End

The layout window in G2K now looks like the screenie below

Chris

[MaskRider]

The Norfolk Island location now looks like this (see screenie). The CFS2 island is gone and only water elevated by the mesh at Norfolk and Phillip Islands is visible. At this stage- if I understnd whats happening- all that we see, as far as CFS2 is concerned is WC water. Looks like water, behaves like water- is water- exept for the runways.

Next step- "Making A New Island (solid ground, hopefully) Appear" by drawing a LWM landpoly around the raised mesh and map outline in the G2K layout window.

See you on the other side...

BTW: should the island land poly be a poly with shore or a poly without shore?

[MaskRider]

Well, I am stumped. I can't get that danged land/water or whatever it is to harden up.

Any volunteers?

Chris

[SdC]

Well, I am stumped. I can't get that danged land/water or whatever it is to harden up.

Any volunteers?

Chris
After I finish my first cup of coffee! :)

[MaskRider]

Hiya SdC!

Great! You have your first and I'll have another and I'll try to keep up with you. Let me know what files I can either post or send.

I am determined to get this working!! Grrrrr....

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Maskrider,
Send me the lwm file.
If you post it here, you should zip it and attach it to the post. When you post it here as text, the double spaces are lost and it cannot be loaded into g2k anymore....

[MaskRider]

Roger that. I emailed you the zip and a link to same at my web site. Here is the link again just incase

http://www.geocities.com/crismahn@sbcglobal.net/NorfolkIsland.zip

Chris

[MaskRider]

FYI.

We are getting hammered by a pretty big storm at the moment- supposed to last for the next couple 'o days- high winds, lots of rain, thunderstorms- very cold (for us anyway) so I might be voluntarily closing down from time to time or simply get closed down due to anticipated and/or actual power outages.

Nothing like a good old Winter storm to end up the Winter!

Chris

Going off the air right now as a mater of fact! Hehe!

[SdC]

Hi Ma,
The reason it's still not visible as land is the lack of LandClass; right now the default landclass is value "100", this is a special type that is "real" water (splash). We need some jungle underneath the island. However, like you, I cannot get a good BGL to compile for that area...
Investigating further!

[SdC]

Ok, here's what I did:
-Set landclass values in the ground2k project, and compiled it.
-Opened the _3.bgl in LWM Viewer
-started cfs2 freeflight
-right-clicked the island in lwmviewer and selected "place here"
-opened ez-landclass, new project. Location: get from msfs
-in the excel menu->EZ-landclass->import data
-browsed to the LC_092_042.Raw file
-compile the ez-landclass
-place bgl in scenery folder

[MaskRider]

Thanks SdC!

I am glad to hear that my confusion/frustration has been grounded upon something besides or at least in addition to my plain ignorance! Hehe!

BTW, the weather emergence has passed and all is now harmonious and peaceful. The house has stopped rattling and the lights are staying on!

I am standing by awaiting further intructions.

Chris

[SdC]

Thanks SdC!

I am glad to hear that my confusion/frustration has been grounded upon something besides or at least in addition to my plain ignorance! Hehe!

BTW, the weather emergence has passed and all is now harmonious and peaceful. The house has stopped rattling and the lights are staying on!

I am standing by awaiting further intructions.

Chris

Instructions? You should be able to do it all yourself now pal! :)

[MaskRider]

Wow!! That looks jes like the real thang!!

My last post was posted before I saw your last.

So, what do I need to do and know now Kimo Sabe?

Can you explain briefly why you took each of the steps that you took. For the benefit of the LandClass impaired??

Thanks
Chris

[SdC]

And if you could contribute somewhat to my list here http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2landclass/cfs2_landclass_values.htm with the valid LC values and corresponding texturesfor the Pacific, I would greatly appreciate it! :engel016:

[MaskRider]

Instructions? You should be able to do it all yourself now pal!

OK, I getcha. Thanks, SdC.

I'll see if I can reproduce the results according to your description!!

And if you could contribute somewhat to my list here http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2landc...ass_values.htm with the valid LC values and corresponding texturesfor the Pacific, I would greatly appreciate it!

Roger that. be happy to contibute in whatever way I can.

:ernae:

Chris

[SdC]

OK, I getcha. Thanks, SdC.

I'll see if I can reproduce the results according to your description!!

:ernae:

Chris

The "trick" I performed is just using the fact that both ground2k and ezlandclass work with LOD5 squares, therefore the RAW files are interchangable :)

[SdC]

Funny thing about the mesh: if I have my "Terrain Complexity Level" set to anything less than Max, I get a lot of "popping" mesh when flying low-level over the island...
Also on the west side of the island, there is still some water running up the coast... on the other side, there are a few meters to spare, so there seems to be a slight coordinate mismatch between the projects....

[MaskRider]

Hi SdC,

Thanks a million times over, buddy. I just went and reproduced your results- using slightly different landclass definitions- but was able to reproduce the results with no problems.

It looks fantastic- except fot the shoreline tweaks that you suggest as well as some more tweaking of the landclass designations. Also, I still need to do the lanclass for Phillip Island- see the screenie. But it should not be a problem. Can't wait to forge ahead.

The mismatch between the shore and the mesh is nothing more than me not being able to tell exactly where the mesh elevation stopped and started. I did the outline for that poly from the very rough back ground image/map that I sent to you. I would have redone them sooner but this watery land thing slowed me down!

Now that I am beginning to get comfortable with all of the tools that I have aquired over the last few days I will see about getting a more accurate outline of the mesh in there for the background map. I know you told me several times but, do I use LWMViewer for that?

WRT LWMViewer- how do I zoom in? Or isn't it possible?

I don't know what to tell ya but thanks. It has been a real crash course but believe me the lessons have all stuck.

There really isn't any reason to not follow the method you outline everytime. It is so simple and the tools are so reliable. Fantastic work my friend. Same goes to all the other brilliant and talented folks who have helped shepherd LWM and Land/Water Class scenery building from its humble beginnings to where it is now. Wonderful stuff.

Opens up vast new possibilities for me.

I will be going back and reworking a couple of whole islands in the Pacific Ferry Route project using the knowledge that I have now.

Call on me anytime if there is anything I can do for you.

Chris

[MaskRider]

PS: And yes, now that I will be needing to put together a landclass viewing catalogue of my own- I will be more than happy to help you with new entries for your own. I'm going to need to do some experimenting around though.

Just out of curiosity. What do think was the hangup with Ground2K compiling that LC.bgl?

I am going to spend sometime over the next couple of hour yanking all of the excellent advice from this thread and putting it together with my own thoughts and observations and just getting this mass of new material and information organized and clear.

Chris

[SdC]

Hi SdC,

Thanks a million times over, buddy. I just went and reproduced your results- using slightly different landclass definitions- but was able to reproduce the results with no problems.

It looks fantastic- except fot the shoreline tweaks that you suggest as well as some more tweaking of the landclass designations. Also, I still need to do the lanclass for Phillip Island- see the screenie. But it should not be a problem. Can't wait to forge ahead.

The mismatch between the shore and the mesh is nothing more than me not being able to tell exactly where the mesh elevation stopped and started. I did the outline for that poly from the very rough back ground image/map that I sent to you.

Now that I am beginning to get comfortable with all of the tools that I have aquired over the last few days I will see about getting a more accurate outline of the mesh in there for the background map. I know you told me several times but, do I use LWMViewer for that?

WRT LWMViewer- how do I zoom in? Or isn't it possible?

I don't know what to tell ya but thanks. It has been a real crash course but believe me the lessons have all stuck.

There really isn't any reason to not follow the method you outline everytime. It is so simple and the tools are so reliable. Fantastic work my friend. Same goes to all the other brilliant and talented folks who have helped shepherd LWM and Land/Water Class scenery building from its humble beginnings to where it is now. Wonderful stuff.

Opens up vast new possibilities for me.

I will be going back and reworking a couple of whole islands in the Pacific Ferry Route project using the knowledge that I have now.

Call on me anytime if there is anything I can do for you.

Chris
Cheers mate :redf: ,
Yeah the tools and technology are a bit daunting at first, but once the basics are clear, it becomes very easy.
Mind you, ground2k can still throw a few curveballs every now and then.... the dreaded "vtp1_poly_extract_subseg" error being the worst of all, as these are almost impossible to debug in a project with 700+ lines and 30000+ points....
Zooming in LWM-viewer: mouse scrollwheel or the + and - keys on the numpad.
I'm still a bit curious to find out the best method of excluding stock coastlines/roads/rivers - I haven't looked into that as that's a problem I won't encounter in Europe.

[SdC]

PS: And yes, now that I will be needing to put together a landclass viewing catalogue of my own- I will be more than happy to help you with new entries for your own. I'm going to need to do some experimenting around though.

Just out of curiosity. What do think was the hangup with Ground2K compiling that LC.bgl?

I am going to spend sometime over the next couple of hour yanking all of the excellent advice from this thread and putting it together with my own thoughts and observations and just getting this mass of new material and information organized and clear.

Chris
I don't know what to think of the ground2k issue... I had already decided to use ezlandclass already anyway, this behaviour just confirms my suspicions. The other reason I don't use it is that if I made routines in my cfs2coast app for landclass to be imported into ground2k, it would require a LOT more code, than if I interact with ezlandclass.

[MaskRider]

I'm still a bit curious to find out the best method of excluding stock coastlines/roads/rivers - I haven't looked into that as that's a problem I won't encounter in Europe.

Well, I guess I will be helping you find out about it since all of the islands I want to rebuild have coastlines at least- Christmas Island is the only one that has roads I believe. Maybe I will start there next after Norfolk is in the bag. Since Christmas, like Norfolk, is located several miles away from its actuall real world location- otherwise its shape is about perfect.

I also have always wanted to redo Ponpei and put a nice island in at Kusaie. The posibilities are endless.

Thanks for the info WRT zooming in LWMViewer. That is where I can get a bmp image made of a mesh.bgl isn't it- or no?

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

PS BTW WRT EZLanclass, thanks also for pushing me into upgrading my MS Office from 95 to 97. I am slowly making my approach to the 21st century!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Thanks for the info WRT zooming in LWMViewer. That is where I can get a bmp image made of a mesh.bgl isn't it- or no?

Actually after reading back thru the thread I think that TMFViewer is the tool to I was thinking of? Richard "Rhumbaflappy" Ludowise kindly included TMFViewer in the MR_Mesh.zip package he put together and posted a link to back in post #16-17 or so.

Well, I got all of my questions about Mesh and Landclass answered in this thread. Thanks guys- particularly Rhumba and SdC. You guys really know your stuff and- almost as important- you are generous enough to share it.

Chris

[SdC]

Actually after reading back thru the thread I think that TMFViewer is the tool to I was thinking of? Richard "Rhumbaflappy" Ludowise kindly included TMFViewer in the MR_Mesh.zip package he put together and posted a link to back in post #16-17 or so.

Well, I got all of my questions about Mesh and Landclass answered in this thread. Thanks guys- particularly Rhumba and SdC. You guys really know your stuff and- almost as important- you are generous enough to share it.

Chris
A bitmap from the mesh is not necessery (you couldn't export one with tmfviewer anyway).
You could use the original mesh source BSQ saved-as-BMP for background.
The file you downloaded (minus the extreme right column and top row) is exactly 1 degree by 1 degree, where the filename->coordinate is the bottom left corner.

[MaskRider]

Roger that. Thanks. Obviously still many things for me to remember, learn and become familiar with!

:)

Chris

[SdC]

In your next project, you could use cfs2coast to generate the actual shoreline for you.
Procedure:
-Make your island with only LWM poly's in the ground2k project
-Open it with cfs2coast. When prompted "The project contains lines, would you like to keep it", answer yes.
-From the actions menu, click "Generate shorelines".
-Save the project under a different filename.
-(this step still needs to be automated in the tool:) open the new LWM file in Notepad and edit the resulting BGL filename in line 0030.
If the old bgl filename was MyScenery.bgl, the new one can be MySceneryCoastlines.bgl, but not MyScenery_Coastlines.bgl, otherwise your MyScenery_3.bgl files will be deleted!
-Compile in ground2k.
Another post-tutorial tip:
If your project only contains CFS2 LWM Poly's, it can be compiled using Ground2k4 version 5! This goes much much faster and I'm sure the resulting bgl is more efficient; it's a bit smaller. The larger the project, the more important this is.

[MaskRider]

Sounds great. Heck. I might even try that on this project!

AutoCoast is what I downloaded or retrieved the NetFramework stuff for isn't it?

Chris

[SdC]

Yep. Forgot to mention that the "Convert to coastline" procedure prompts for a "Perennial Mask bitmap". This bitmap works as a mask to determine whether Ocean shorelines or Lake/river shorelines are placed. It doesn't really apply for your project, but (in the current version) you need to load it anyway. Bitmap needs to be the same size as the background image, and White=River/lake, Color=Ocean.
Also forgot to mention that in this procedure the "land-on-right" automatically works correct for projects created using r2v bitmap conversion. In your case, you may need to adjust that manually before bgl generation.

[SdC]

This is what I came up with while we were chatting away: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=15453
:)

[MaskRider]

Just amazing. How large of an area are we talking about. How many "Areas"?

BTW, I got a Phillip Island penciled in. Needs a little tweaking. But looks OK. Been playing around with the LC call outs on Norfolk. Think its just about there.

I noticed that occasionally when I hit the LC button to enter LC values for a poly- the poly line doesn't always cross the same area lines as it did when I was in the poly edit mode. So I have to be careful that all of the areas that I was dealing with in the poly edit mode also get accounted for when doing the LC values. Otherwise I end up with more of those default LC fill values.

See attached for latest view.

I will print out & staple the latest AutoCoast Info to the rest of my hard copy of this thread.

Right now, though, I think I am going to take a shower and brunch break- probably fall asleep and take a nap after that. Time to recharge and digest all of the stuff I have learned in the past few hours.

So, I will be be asta for a while.

Cheers and wonderful work on London. I will have to get over there and do some flying. CFS2 Europe has grown up alot lately.

&Tx,
Chris

[SdC]

That's what i'm talking about MR!
:medals: you have now officially graduated from SdC's ground2k crash course college, along with ilumni such as JP127, gary20 and Nooma. Welcome to the club!

[SdC]

About the accuracy of LC versus the grid:
the center of the landclass squares is actually on the top-left (or bottom left :redf: i can't remember) grid intersection in ground2k.

[MaskRider]

Welcome to the club!

Happy to finally be here! And in such awegust company!

I have had the pleasure of both Gary and JP. Nooma and I are new acquaintances on this thread (unless he is an old aquaintance with a new SOH handle!).

Salutations all! :ernae:

BTW those overhead views of your London posted by PJDunbar are very impressive. Looks like newsreel footage from the Propaganda Ministry!

Cheers,
Chris

PS after my nappy time- I will be starting on the airfield @ Norfolk!

[perisher]

Hy All

Wonderful reading!!!


I have a quick question for all:

I am tryng to make a couple of small islands: my problem is the mesh there is a island dimension under which is not possible to have a good mesh representation?

Or what can i use to add height to a plain mesh for such a small island?


cheers to all

[MaskRider]

Well, here she is- what all the fuss was about.

This is the first draft of the Norfolk Island Airfield. The sceneru objects are all macros- soon to be replaced with GSL scenery objects- and the texpoly-texture still needs some tweaking but its getting there.

:jump:

Cheers,
Chris

[JP127]

Wow, that looks fantastic Chris. Sander sure has been making leaps for CFS2 with his new programs. I haven't had a chance to check his new stuff out yet, working on another project at the moment. But you sure are getting great results with them.

Jeff

[SdC]

Wow, that looks fantastic Chris. Sander sure has been making leaps for CFS2 with his new programs. I haven't had a chance to check his new stuff out yet, working on another project at the moment. But you sure are getting great results with them.

Jeff
Jeff, what MR is showing here is traditional Hand Crafted Ground2k scenery; he hasn't used my new tool yet, just my old tutorial. Now that Chris has an understanding of the basics, he can start to use it for some operations.
Perisher,
Mesh is actually quite high resolution so even small islands can be shaped. At this time, I could not say what the best tool would be for this, but I'm sure you could get decent results with Martin's FSTerrain.
If the island is REALLY small, you might even get good results using Flatten's (Area16) in FSSC.

[MaskRider]

Hi Jeff! Nice to be back in the game and re-establish old contacts.

Have a question for anyone who can answer it.

Previous to this my only experience using G2K was when I made textured VTP1 polygons and used format-converted DXT3 -> DXT1 versions of my texpoly bmps as the assigned custom texture for VTP1/Poly/Special polygons. It worked fine but its been a while since I messed with it.

What I am playing with right now is changing the current airfield ground texturing from its current texpoly framework and using the same (converted) bmp texture file as the assigned texture in a VTP1 "special" poly.

Q1: can the _7.bgl's be in the same folder as everything else or do they need to be in a different folder?

Q2: is my memory about using DXT1 as the preferred format correct?

Thanks.
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Jeff! Nice to be back in the game and re-establish old contacts.

Have a question for anyone who can answer it.

Previous to this my only experience using G2K was when I made textured VTP1 polygons and used format-converted DXT3 -> DXT1 versions of my texpoly bmps as the assigned custom texture for VTP1/Poly/Special polygons. It worked fine but its been a while since I messed with it.

What I am playing with right now is taking the current airfield ground texturing texturing out of its current texpoly framework and using the same (converted) bmp texture file as the assigned texture for a VTP1 "special" poly.

Q1: can the _7.bgl's be in the same folder as everything else or do they need to be in a different folder?

Q2: is my memory about using DXT1 as the preferred format correct?

Thanks.
Chris
Hi Chris,
A1: same folder has always worked fine for me.
A2: no. It has to be 8 bit with mipmaps. You can use this tutorial (http://combatfs.homeip.net/cfs2files/cfs2vtp1texturetutorial/default.htm) as guideline.

Remark1: the textures are always aligned to the grid, in other words you can not use them rotated at an angle.
Remark2: the maximum size is 256x256 (you can use larger bitmap, but only the 256x256 and smaller mipmaps are displayed)
Remark3: the maximum resolution is the standard ground resolution (256x256 per LOD13 square)

(I'm still working on a procedure to lay them down using cfs2autocoast; helluva lot less clicking required. ETA: 2 weeks)

[MaskRider]

Thanks SdC!

I will get the tutorial and begin.

Yes, all of my ground polys are un-rotated as are their bmps so they fit in just right with these special VTP1 polys. They already have alpha channel masks. So, all I need do is open my file in ImageTool and change the format to 8 bit? Is that it? What do I save it as- a DXT3 or what? Thats OK, I will read the tutorial.

BTW, here is a proposition for you. When I am done completely with Norfolk- which shouldn't be much longer- another couple of days- how about I do an exclusively AutoCoast project? I want to do a complete rework of Palmyra Atoll. If that sounds like something you might be interested in, we could kind of make it a shake down cruise for all the latest versions of your tools.

Thanks again,
Chris

PS Just read the tutorial. Got it. Save as DXT3- that what mine all are to start out with so not a prob. Tx.

[SdC]

Thanks SdC!

I will get the tutorial and begin.

Yes, all of my ground polys are un-rotated as are their bmps so they fit in just right with these special VTP1 polys. They already have alpha channel masks. So, all I need do is open my file in ImageTool and change the format to 8 bit? Is that it? What do I save it as- a DXT1 or what? Thats OK, I will read the tutorial.

BTW, here is a proposition for you. When I am done completely with Norfolk- which shouldn't be much longer- another couple of days- how about I do an exclusively AutoCoast project? I want to do a complete rework of Palmyra Atoll. If that sounds like something you might be interested in, we could kind of make it a shake down cruise for all the latest versions of your tools.

Thanks again,
Chris
Sounds very interesting Chris. I'm not too good at getting the manual for the tool up-and-running. I think the most efficient way is to run the process like we did here-in a thread- and then compile the resulting procedure into a word doc.

[MaskRider]

Sounds very interesting Chris. I'm not too good at getting the manual for the tool up-and-running. I think the most efficient way is to run the process like we did here-in a thread- and then compile the resulting procedure into a word doc.

Yes, I agree with you. This thread was a very productive- unscripted and just taking things as they came. It worked out great and we didn't get over organized or anything. Fine by me.

Chris

[SdC]

What sort of maps are you planning to use?

[MaskRider]

My plan is pretty much the same as my usual.

I know the length, heading and lat/lon coordinates of the center of the runway on Cooper Island, Palmyra Atoll. I have a nice map of the atoll- see the low res dimensionally scaled down screenie below. The yellowish tan parts are what is above water all the time- thats what I'd/we'd be making. I'll send you the full sized map if you'd like.

In FSSC I will create a very basic airfield for Palmyra- with just the runway to begin with. Then I will bring in the map as a BG image in FSSC- scale it to so that the runway in the FSSC layout window and the runway on the map- fit. From there on out I can get all corner coords and such from FSSC- then slew to them in CFS2 and get the tranlated coords from EZLC.. This is pretty much what I did with Norfilk, too.

Palmyra is an interesting geographical place. You'll see from the map that there is a larger west lagoon and a smaller east lagoon with a causeway across the the shallows that separate them. Well, before the Allies built an airfield on it, Palmyra had 3 lagoons. They dredged out the shallows that separated to two westerly lagoons so that the resulting longer lagoon could be used as a seaplane runway.

Then they used the material as fill for the causeway and for those two other man-made looking areas on the south side.

I can check for elevation data for Palmyra. It does have some- not much- 13 feet or so in places.

Sound like a plan?

Chris

BTW- the default CFS2 Palmyra is an abomination. Hehe!
Plus it is mislocated as was Norfolk. See the attached screenies- the light blue water in the north is where Palmra should be- CFS2 has it located where you see- many miles south.

The other screenie shows the airfield I currently have located at the CFS2 location- actual location is in the distance.

[SdC]

Sounds overly complicated.... and possibly inaccurate.

[MaskRider]

Well, I guess it does sound a bit overly complicated. But it works pretty well.

When I say that I get the points for the G2K locations from it I don't mean that I am inching my way milimeter by painful milimeter along the outline of an island in CFS2 endlessly and everlastingly going back and forth between CFS2 and EZLC for translated coords.

FSSc is really great for getting those corner cords around a couple of accurately located and scaled points- like runways. After that the same map can be brought into G2K and with its corner coords known- and used as the project BG map.

Its actually pretty uncomplicated- just sounds complicated because I am not explaining it well enough.

I got Norfolk Island pretty well nailed down to a gnats behind with it. The location and scaling of my background map from FSSC which I also used in G2K ended up fitting the mesh pretty much to a T.

I am just so used to starting most projects in FSSC that that is what immediately comes to mind. I am a dinosaur.

If there is a way to get a data map of Palmyra that can be translated into a BG bmp that accurately reflects what it looks like- I am ready to go that direction.

I would think that this map is at least usuable as a background map in G2K. Yes? No? As long as we know a couple of fix locations on it with total accuracy. Right?

Or do I need to start thinking AutoCoast and quit thinking FSSC and G2K. I mean I just started thinking G2K. Now you want me to stop and start thinkin somethiun else. I think I feel whiplash coming on! Hehe :d

Anyway- I am a flexible guy and always open to suggestions.:d

Chris

[SdC]

The core functionality of cfs2autocoast is to convert Real World maps (as raster bitmap) to compilable ground2k projects.
I'm building in a couple of additional tricks to make it sort-of a Swiss army pocket knife for cfs2 development.

If you have a clean decent map, with basically just a monochrome outline of the island(s) and nothing else; no text, no altitude lines etc. it can be converted using BMP -> r2v -> cfs2autocoast -> ground2k -> BGL.

You've now done your first project, and it's all new and exciting. By the time you've manually traced the outline of the island for 10 islands (...and the matching coastline) it gets a bit tiresome to say the least.

Therefore, I rather spend that time in Photoshop (or PSP) to clean up the existing map and then running it through the tools.

The reason I use LWMViewer bitmaps as background is because it works with the correct projection and FS specific LOD divisions. And gives coordinates in decimal AND geo notation.

[MaskRider]

You've now done your first project, and it's all new and exciting. By the time you've manually traced the outline of the island for 10 islands (...and the matching coastline) it gets a bit tiresome to say the least.

Therefore, I rather spend that time in Photoshop (or PSP) to clean up the existing map and then running it through the tools.

Yep, your right, I better not get to big for my britches- eh!? Hehe.

I can clean that map up no problem into the monochrome format that you mentioned.

Question- be gently with me- with a map such as the one of Palmyra, lets say I get it all cleaned up and monochromatic and its ready to go- how do I determine the reference points on the map so that LWMviewer will know where to place it and where it is. I am still a bit fuzzy on this.

I guess a btter question is: will this Palmyra map do as a starting point?

Most of the time I am not able to find maps or satelite views of remote Pacific Islands that provide anything in the way of close up detail or accurate coordinate information. I always need to use a know quaintity- such as a runway location and dimensions as a reference point.

Will your tools lead me out of this darkness and into the light? :d

Chriis

BTW here is new view of Norfolk. Been fooling around with it considerably. Got the texpoly converted over to VTP1 Special _7.bgl.

My texture file didn't handle the 8bit conversion process real well. If memiory serves there was something else I did before when I was working with these that kept the BMP from getting so blotchy looking.

Also, the scenery objects are now GSL- notice burning oil tank.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

This more like what I would need? This a very much reduced.

When I look at this I can see that it would be a bit of a challenge. Much different than Norfolk Island. Can't tell whether the best approach would be to carve water out of some land or land out of some water.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi Guys,

I am creating a new BSQ style mesh for New Caledonia and am therefore writing a new mutisource mesh.inf file. I have the 19 [Source] sections filled in and am now to the point at the end where I enter in the NSEW values in the [Destination] section.

I am not clear just what values to enter here or how I use LODCalc to get them.

Can someone please clarify or expand a bit on what Destination Bounds are and how we use LODCalc to get them?

For instance:

Do we want the format to be DegMinSec, DegMin or just Deg?
What coordinateds do we enter: the coordinates contained in the name of the most northerly, most westerly, most easterly and most southerly of our BSQ files? And then choose whatever of the four outputted boundary limit numbers represents that particular input- notherly, easterly, etc., etc?

I know that the readme for LODCalc says it is self explanatory. But the only thing I can see that is self explanatory is that I am obviously somewhat denser than the average frist time user of LODCalc cuz I don't get it! :d

Thanks.
Chris

[MaskRider]

... on map projections, etc. I just got my clock cleaned on Palmyra Atoll. See screenies below.

The B&W image shows the correct overall spacial relationship of the islands in the atoll. The picture on the right shows what I got in CFS2 after using this image as my background map. Note that it is either all squished together from top to bottom or else it is stretch way out left to right. I think the latter.

I suspect that this has something to do with the dreaded subject of Geographic Projection of Maps- a topic that I blew off earlier in the thread. :redf:

So, whahappened?

Thanks,
Chris

I am hoping that someone is going to tell me that there is some sort of lat/lon dependent correction factor I can apply to the map to make it all better. Yes? I hope?

[MaskRider]

:wavey:

Hehe! I am so overwhelmed!

Thought I would post a copy of the LWM file in case anyone is interested.

Hopefully lack of a map will not thro a monkey wrench into opening it up. But the image file is pretty big.

Cheers,
Chris

PS Yep, and thanks in advance for pointing out that I left one area without a landclass call out! :) Its fixed now!!

[MaskRider]

Actually I am just posting to see when this thread will pop open a 6th page.
:d
Chris

[MaskRider]

Hee hee heee!! I got it fingered out!!

But I got a huge helping hand from Gary Burns.

Turns out that G2K wants a square project/map.

Attached is Palmyra the way she now looks- the way shes supposed to look. Notice how nicely the wee little real world runway fits onto its real world spot. Didn't have to tweak a thing!

Now for some shore and some different LC call outs and some airfield type stuff.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

well, Palmyra is comming along- but I tell ya, I am really having to do battle with this intricate coastline. Much more trouble than Norfolk Is. The Norfolk Island coast line was a snap.

Now that I am along with it I am actually thinking of redoing the whole thing: expanding the size of the LC poly so that it covers the inner lagoon- lower left on near side of the causeway- and then carving out an LWM WC lake polygon from that. I think it might save me some shoreline woes.

Nevertheless. I am learning and making progress thanks to all the help I have received!

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Well, Palmyra is on the cusp of being finished. A few more things to do. The first being to get some new shallow water class called out for parts of the lagoon and northern shore. Then add some trees and tone down the airfield ground texture just a tad.

I am having no success so far getting G2K to spit out an LC or WC bgl. I can get a WC from EZLC but it doesn't do anything. I am going to try shuffling it around in different folders and see if that makes it show up.

The old Palmyra is completely gone- land and coastlines.

Here's a screenie of the current state of affairs- some GSL objects burning below.

Cheers,
Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
Great progress.
Just came across this old thread: http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID24/277.html

Now finally all those years later.... :wiggle:

[MaskRider]

Hiya SdC,

Yep, so far so good! Thanks.

Hehe, wow, that Ondonga thread is an oldie! I've had several Ondonga moments from time to time. As late as November of '05 was still fooling around with it- with the assistance of James Smith. With good results, too, I,m happy to say. I supplied the coords n' maps n' overlays n' stuff and James supplied the finished product.

Thanks to James the Ondonga shoreline now looks the way its supposed to. It justs wants a complete airfield added to it. The single runway visible in the screenies is for locating and scaling purposes.

Ondonga was fairly extensive with 2 parallel runways facing the same direction as the one in the screenies. When finished I'll include it in my gsl rework of the Solomons. It and a few more details around Henderson are all thats left to do.

James did a beautiful job on Ondonga. See screenies below.

I think I might try reproducing the results though, just to see if I can. Couldn't improve on it.

Chris

[MaskRider]

WHY CAN I NOT GET SHALLOW WATER TO HAPPEN AT PALMYRA?

And

WHY WON'T G2K COMPILE MY LC AND WC BGLS?

I ALWAYS HAVE TO USE EZLC TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Why??

IT'S DRIVING MAD!

Chris

[MaskRider]

Hi Guys,

Here are a couple of down and dirty versions of Norfolk Island and Palmyra Atoll- my first 2 attempts at the this G2K LC/WC thing.

There is no readme. If you have any of the MaskRider API or GSL based scenery installed then it is likely that you already have the necessary scenery object libraries installed that are required for this scenery to function.

Must have at least the following 3 installed:
lwd_tree_library
lw_library_objects
mr_libobjs_complete

After unzipping new_mr_islands.zip you will havce a folder of the same name. Open it.

Inside you will see 4 folders:
Main CFS2 Scenery
Norfolk Island
NorfolknPalmyra GSL
Palmyra Atoll

Place the contents, not the folder but the contents only of the Main CFS2 Scenery folder into your CFS2/scenery folder.

Place the Norfolk Island and Palmyra Atoll folders into your main CFS2 directory and activate them as you would any other scnery folders.

Place the contents of NorfolknPalmyra GSL in your CFS2/GSL folder. If it ask if you wish to overwrite GSLMan.exe choose yes or no- it makes no difference.

Back up your current cfs2.gsl file.

Open GSLMan.exe.

Hi lite palmyra.gsl and click "ADD". Do the same with norfolk.gsl.

Go flying! Remember there are always lots of menu entry start points including water entries and water refueling.

Let me know how you like 'em. These are not the finals but they are pretty danged close.

Cheers,
Chris

Here is a link(540KB). I can leave it up at my site for a few days depending on the demand- as long as its lite- which I anticipate that it will be :d - that should be long enough.

http://www.geocities.com/crismahn@sbcglobal.net/new_mr_islands.zip

[MaskRider]

BTW, this scenery was built with PacTex textures in mind. In particular the PacTex version of the file vshoresu.bmp is a key ingredient as it is quite different than the stock version of the file- narrower with a much dirtier sand compared to the bright white of the stock texture. The stocjk version will work fine but because of its wideness things don't fit quite so nicely as they do with the PacTex version.

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Chris,
You should distribute the texture with the scenery (myground2k\TEXTURE folder). That will ensure that the correct texture is displayed in your area, regardless of how the end user has set up his/her system.

[MaskRider]

Hiya SdC

Point taken.

Like I said, though, it works fine without it. If the user has this particular vshoresu.bmp, it will get used. If they dont- it won't. If they aren't using PacTex, and they are flying the Pacific then they are likely still just using the stock so the stock vshoresu.bmp will likely look better anyway.

One of the things I want to find out about with this little test release is not so much whether folks have this particular vshoresu.bmp texture, but where they have it located.

I happen to have a copy of vshoresu.bmp in two locations: scenedb/world/texture and in my main CFS2 texture folder.

Perhaps you can tell me because I don't know- which of these two foldes will cover all the contingencies? I have copied all of my scenedb/world/texture folder files to my main CFS2 texture folder. This being the case, do I still need them to be in the scenedb/world/texture folder?

Find the file attached. Just in case. :d

Chris

[MaskRider]

BTW, Its funny.

Mentioning vshoresu.bmp was really just an afterthought.

It was an issue for me because of a problem that cropped up when I was doing the ground texture bmp for the textpoly in the airfield scenery.

As it turned out I had two copies of vshoresu.bmp installed: one, the stock wide and white one in my scenedb/world/texture folder and a second PacTex version in my CFS2/texture folder. It could have been vice versa- point is they were different. When I copied my files over from scenedb/world/texture folder to CFS2/texture I must have selected "no" to overwriting any files.

In any event, at first when making the ground texpoly texture bmp for the Palmyra airfield scenery I didn't notice that the shoreline in background image/template of palmyra wasn't my normal PacTex shoreline but the wider whiter stock shoreline.

Just before loading up the completed airfield scenery with texpoly I shuffled some of the G2K/EZLC related bgls to main CFS2 scenery folder and the PacTex version of vshoresu.bmp started getting called out.

Now when I loaded up the airfield scenery with the new texpoly there was a big gap between the shore line and the edge of the poly texture and no matter how much I poked and massaged I couldn't get it to fit right.

I finally noticed that the shore texture was different- much narrower than the one I had started with.

So, I re-did the ground poly texture using a new background image where the PacTex version of vshoresu.bmp was being called out. Now it fits fine.

Now the worst that will happen if the stock vshoresu.bmp is used is that there will be a slight over lapping of the ground texture dirt with the shoreline- instead of a gap. Not such a pesky matter- looks OK probably.

And I made sure that both copies of vshoresu.bmp are now the same PacTex version.

Chris

[MaskRider]

Heee heee!! Eureka!

Finally got some shallow water to show up at Palmyra.

I am going to tweak it a bit and then I'll upload it in case anyone wants to add it to the current stuff.

I had to make a separate wc_bgl in a separate project. Does that make sense?

Chris

[MaskRider]

Alrighteee!

I am beginning to get how useful these viewing tools are. Using TMFViewer I opened up worldwc.bgl and had a look at the WC call outs around Norfolk Island- which has a nice varied conglomeration of shallow to deep water surrounding it.

Anyhow, I was able to read right off from lightest to darkest 7 thru 12.

Then I went back into the Palmyra WC project and played around with those values and came up with a nice little WC for Palmyra- nice and varied and very much in line with what is there- much deeper water in the lagoon than in the surrounding reefs.

See screenie below and attached palmyra-new-wc.zip

Unzip it and toss it into the main CFS2 scenery folder.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Uno mas thing, in case any one is interested :d :

Here are the runway entries and NDB Frequencies for the Norfolk Island and Palmyra Atoll sceneries:

Norfolk Island:
Runway entries:

[runway.XXX]
id=XXXX
name=NSW Norfolk Is 23
base_lat=S29 02.54
base_lon=E167 56.32
base_alt=320
heading=230
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=-450,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=500,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.XXX]
id=XXXX
name=NSW Norfolk Is 31
base_lat=S29 02.47
base_lon=E167 56.28
base_alt=320
heading=305
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=-500,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=500,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

NDB Frequency: 260


Palmyra Atoll:
Runway entries:

[runway.XXX]
id=XXXX
name=MN Palmyra FB Rwy
base_lat=N05 52.68
base_lon=W162 04.36
base_alt=0
heading=270
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=-450,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=500,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

[runway.XXX]
id=XXXX
name=MN Palmyra Atoll 25
base_lat=N05 52.99
base_lon=W162 03.99
base_alt=0
heading=246.6
allegiance=0
units_across=2
takeoff_start_pos=-500,0
takeoff_stop_pos=1600,200
landing_start_pos=5000,350
landing_touchdown_pos=500,0
landing_stop_pos=-250,0

NDB Frequency: 420

Cheers,
Chris

[crashaz]

Great work there MR!!:applause:

Yeah I have always used something else for landclass/waterclass tools. Have never tried using Ground2k. Sure I have to have another proggie open but it beats :banghead: over trying to figure out how to use a program's feature.

The viewers are cool aren't they??


Have been working with FS2k4 scenery for the Ruhr area... was a learning curve there but the results are about to pay off. :d


Will be back to sending my Seabees to work in the Pacific very soon.

[MaskRider]

Hiya, Crash,

Sounds like you are busy! Glad to hear that you haven't totally forgotten the Pacific Theater!

Yeah, I don't mind using the other programs to generate the LC/WCs either. It just frustrated me that I couldn't get G2K4 to do it. I'm fine now.:d

For what it will do with CFS2, G2K is a fantastic scenery making tool.

Another big part of the learning curve is how to organize the work and not let one project get too filled up with stuff. I'm beginning to see that breaking things down into different sub-projetects really pays off.

Yes the viewers are a big huge help. The Palmyra coastlines were a real hassle. Aside from the occassionqal Error VTP1_lines_Extract_SubSeq_4 I was getting quite a few of those little (sometime big!) spikes coming out of the shore line. Now I keep LMFViewer open all the time while doing the shorelines of these multi islet atolls and I compile and check in LMFViewer after every islet to see if there are any spikes. When there are, LMFV makes it so easy to zero right in on the offending point so that one can go in there and "shake it out".

I am just about done now with a complete rebuld and remeshing of Aitutaki Atoll (Cook Islands). Things are going much more smoothly this time around.

Speaking of which, Aitutaki got a remesh. Its location is covered by a single HGT file- S19W160.hgt which I attached to this post. I tried my darndest- really, my darndest- to make a mesh bgl using DEM2BSQ.exe and multisource batch file as outline by Rhumba earlier.

I ran S19W160.hgt thru the steps outlined by Rhumba earlier and obtained a good BSQ file. I created 3 NULL bsqs- one to the west of and two south of those. Then I wrote a new multisource inf and a bat to cover the new mesh project- which I named aitutaki-mesh.

Kept running into two problems and I think they are related.

First- I do not understand how to use LODCalc to get the Destination Bounds for the multisource inf [Destination] section. So I kept massaging this part of the inf file and finally got it to work. BUT...

Second- the resulting bgl always put the mesh into the wrong place. It never comes out where its supposed to. It moves around in accordance with changes that I make to the destination bounds. I can never seem to get it to end up anywhere near the NE quadrant of the bgl where it belongs.

I've tried shuffling the order in which the bsqs appeared in the inf file (doesn't seem to make much difference) and screwing some more with the Destination bound but nothing helped. Whenever I get a functioning mesh bgl- the mesh is always in the wrong quadrant of the 4-BSQ bgl.

I finally settled for going back and doing it the old fashioned way- working directly with the hgt files. The mesh now sits where it belongs. But I really like using the BSQ/BMP/BSQ method. I like being able to give the surrounding water a good flattening..

Please anyone- any advice or guidance welcomed!

I attach all relavant files including an example of a functioning but errant aitutaki-mesh.inf, aitutaki-mesh.bat and aitutaki-mesh.bgl as well as the S19W160.hgt and S19W160.bsq files.

Thanks!
Chris

[MaskRider]

BTW here is a screenie of the "new" Aitutaki Atoll. Only have the runways laid in so far.

Also, here are the coords in case anyone would like to see what the default cfs2 location looks like:

S18* 50.15'
W159* 46.41'

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

Aitutaki just about in the can.

A few more adjustment to the scenery object layouts- but otherwise- i'm satisfied with the land and water and mesh.

I'm havin' fun with what I've learned!!

Cheers,
Chris

[xavierb]

Great! Outstanding job, MR!

[MaskRider]

Thanks Xavier. Like you said: many headaches and frustrating moments but worth it.

Aitutaki was my first project where the replacement island pretty much sits on the same patch of ground as the one being replaced.

I first created the LWM WC Poly (to make the old land disappear) and then an exclude for the shoreline. Put those two files into my main CFS2/scenery folder. Then I went about making the land LWM poly, new shores and mesh. All of those I put in the same folder with the airfield bgls.

What was kind of neat about Aitutaki- because in my ignorance I hadn't expected it :d - was that since it already had land class call outs sitting underneath the old Aitutaki- all I needed to do was get my new land LWM poly laid down and the land showed up under most of it. Then it was a matter of changing the existing LC call outs to what I wanted and adding new ones where needed.

WRT MESH!!
I still need some one-on-one about creating those destination bounds for the multisource inf file that compiles BSQs into bgls.

Am currently trying to get a mesh bgl put together for Tongatapu. HGTs S22W175 and S22W176 are the relevant files. Unfortunatley I can't use them directly because they have major anomolies. All of which I can correct with DEM2BSQ.exe but I'm still having no luck getting a properly functioning multisource inf file pulled together.

Thanks,
Chris

PS: Yes also to all who have repeated that G2k- once you get accustomed to its ways- is a very powerful and easy to use scenery building tool.

[MaskRider]

Signing off from this thread. I think its pretty much turned into a monologue and is dead in the water. Thanks for all of the help, though!

:)

Cheers,
Chris

[GuyBoullenger]

I chris,

Although I did notr answer as I am no expert in this area, I still keep en eye on the thread to monitor your progress. Please keep us informed !

Guy

[MaskRider]

Hiya Guy,

Well, if you insist. I will go on.

Aitutaki is in the can as they say in the movie business.

I move on to Tongatapu. Very good results so far.

Started out the same once again with a separate project for water LWM poly and shoreline excludes- to remove the old island.

For new mesh I tried something new. I went to the USGS Seamless elevation data website and downloaded the BIL source file for Tongatapu.

With the BIL source file and the great file information pack that they provide with it and with guidance from Gary Burns I was was able to put together an inf and bat file and produce a nice mesh file for Tongatapu and its sister island, Eua Island.

Now this time I decided to try something totally new. Instead of using an actual map of Tongatapu as my background map in G2K, I made a nice big (2000x2000) bmp instead from screenshots of the mesh bgl taken from TMFViewer.

From TMF view, and as described by SdC in his tutorial, I picked the north, south, west and east limit points on the map to use as my reference points for my G2K Tongatapu project. I had been using the corners of the square maps.

I put a dot at each of the 4 points on the bmp and made a note as to the lat/lon readings of the 4 points that I got from TMF viwer.

Then I brought the map into G2K and proceeded designating the NW and SE reference points. I went to my northern point and made a note of the Y value of the X/Y pixel(?) coordinate readout. Then I slid on over to the western point and made a note of the X value of theX/Y pixel readout. Then I move the cursor north to the point where X(W) met Y(N) and clicked that as my NW corner. Then I entered in the lat/lon coords that I had made a note of earlier. Did the same for the SE corner.

That little X/Y pixel readout is handy!

Everything fits just right, too. The mesh and my land LWM poly match up like a glove.

I couldn't do it this way at Aitutaki because the mesh didn't match up with the map very well. I guess that they must have taken the data at a super low tide or something because the data I used for Aitutaki had almost all of the ring islands in the atoll connected- with no water betewen them. And they also has far more elevation than they should have.

Along with whether its hi or lo tide when the radar data is collected I think the dscrepency also has to do with the fact that while the little islands themselve have little or no elevation- they all have 60- 80 feet of thick rainforest type vegetation sitting on top of them.

At Aitutaki I kept the mesh for the main Island only and flattened the rest.

Cheers,
Chris

[MaskRider]

This has been a fun one. Been using EZLandclass a lot more for editing the LC directly. So, much easier. Just have to keep track of which RAW files are which and not accidently use one that isn't the one you wanted. I'm guessing that the best way to do it is that once you finally have all land and water LWMs done and the way you want them- from then on its probably easiest to just use EZLC exclusively to alter the LC call outs.

Anyway- Tongatapu is about done. It is a fairly low lying island- 200 feet or so max. It had 3 airstrips on it. Two relatively well built up and developed- transit field for the the Pacific Air Ferry route and then another auxillary field a few miles west of the main drome. The main town, at the entrance to the "harbor" on the north coast also had Sea Plane facilities. Haven't added those yet.

The sister islnd- Eua- was included in the mesh so I figured what they hey- went ahead and did a ground up rebuild of it, too. It is a much more rugged island than Tongatapu- rising steeply from the ocean on the east side and sloping gradually away on the west.

Heres a couple O' screenies.

In the first the view is NW from the SE corner of Tongatapu and looks over the main airfield. The auxillary field is at center left.

In the second pic the view is up the east coast of Eua with Tongatapu away in the distance at upper left.

Cheers,
Chris

[xavierb]

Lovely airfield, and nice screenshots. BTW, which terrain textures are you using? Pactext 1/2...?

Best regards,

Xavier

[MaskRider]

Hi Xavier,
Thanks.

These are the PacTec textures alright. I've had 'em installed for so long I'm not sure just whats what with 'em anymore.

OK, I just looked. I have a 5 pack set. It appears that parts 1-3 are totally installed- except I did retain the stock CFS2 river and road texture. It doesn't look like I have any of the "swap" textures installed- from Part 4. Nor do I have any of the coral stuff from Part 5- although I did have these installed at one point- and liked them, too if I recall. Don't remember why I took them out.

Chris

[SdC]

Hi Xavier,
Thanks.

These are the PacTec textures alright. I've had 'em installed for so long I'm not sure just whats what with 'em anymore.

OK, I just looked. I have a 5 pack set. It appears that parts 1-3 are totally installed- except I did retain the stock CFS2 river and road texture. It doesn't look like I have any of the "swap" textures installed- from Part 4. Nor do I have any of the coral stuff from Part 5- although I did have these installed at one point- and liked them, too if I recall. Don't remember why I took them out.

Chris
Hi Chris,
I too like the Coral textures. It would be nice if they would show up in the correct place and not all over the world....
This could be done by adding a separate Waterclass scenery layer with the coral textures in the corresponding \texture folder....
There are source maps available here http://coralreefs.wr.usgs.gov/mapping.html

[GuyBoullenger]

Hiya Guy,

Well, if you insist. I will go on.



Thanks Chris !
The South Pacific is going to be fully of beautiful airbases. Ask if you need beta testers !

Guy

[MaskRider]

Hiya Guy,

Tell me which of these last 4 airfields you would like to play with and I'll send you the files via email.

Chris

[GuyBoullenger]

The one for which you need someone to test something ... or everyone if you need it !

Guy

[MaskRider]

Fine. I'll send all four.

I must admit that pretty well beta test the living beejeebers out of everything any way- but there is a lot new here and I'd like to see if the basic release set up I have in mind will work OK for everyone. I think you have enough experience with scenery making and all that so you won't have any problems getting things installed? I wasn't planning on any elaborate instructions at this stage of the game.

Let me see if I have your email addy- yep still do.

Cheers,
Chris

PS I did a remake of Norfolk. Should be done with it shortly. Just have to make the shorlines.

[perisher]

Hy Mask

Gorgeus Work!!
Stunning!!

BTW Perhaps are you accepting request to make a coule of tiny importat island in the Pacific??

let me know
cheers

luca

[MaskRider]

Hello Guy,

I emailed the airfields to you in 4 separate emailings. Let me know if you got them OK. Recently, my email has been acting up a bit when sending attached files.


Hiya Luca.

Naahh, buddy. At the moment I am focusing on my Pacific Air Ferry project. Thats how this whole thread started- because I ran up against a wall and needed some new skills to get over it. I am still feeling my way along with many new challenges ahead.

Sorry.
Chris

[GuyBoullenger]

Hi Chris,

I got 2 mails : "Norfolk" and "Tongatapu - forgot something"
2 are missing !

Guy

[MaskRider]

I will try again!

Tx,
Chris

They are on the way- I hope!