Formula1 in chaos, again!

[6297J]

This is getting silly now. First the rule changes then the U turn on the rule changes and now the teams are squabbling amongst themselves again!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7965056.stm

I'm still looking forward to the weekend though. I think Lewis is going to have a bad season - McLaren are far off the pace :ernae:

Believe it or not Jenson Button is the bookies favourite for the opening race :icon_lol:

[stiz]

i still think they should make all the cars the same, except paint job, no arguments then about cars being unfair, if you come last, your just a **** driver :engel016:

[tigisfat]

i still think they should make all the cars the same, except paint job, no arguments then about cars being unfair, if you come last, your just a **** driver :engel016:

nah, the technology race is what makes formula one formula one.

[stiz]

ya mean boring and full of whiny school kids? :173go1:

[6297J]

i still think they should make all the cars the same, except paint job, no arguments then about cars being unfair, if you come last, your just a **** driver :engel016:

Except Ferrari would pull out.

(Unless all the teams get the same Ferrari of course but that would mean some of the teams would cheat even more than they do now to gain an advantage).

[Ferry_vO]

Seems like Williams, Brawn GP (Former Honda) and Toyota have used a hiatus in the rules to their own advantage to gain an advantage. The other teams missed this opportunity and are now complaining because they are now loosing up to 0.5 seconds a lap. Red Bull in particular are basically screwed if the FIA allows the diffusor setup of the three teams as their rear suspension design will not allow a similar setup without redesigning the entire rear end of the car.
We'll have to wait and see how the stewards decide, but even then the losers will most likely protest the decision. That protest will not be discussed until after the next race which will take place next week.

Just as interesting will be the use of KERS (Kinetic energy recovery system). Ferrari, Renault and McLaren will use it, BMW will only use it on Heidfeld's car, and the other teams will not use it for now. It will be interesting to see if the extra boost can make up for the weight penalty.
Reliability could become an issue too.

[Ferry_vO]

Except Ferrari would pull out.

(Unless all the teams get the same Ferrari of course but that would mean some of the teams would cheat even more than they do now to gain an advantage).

That already exists; it's called A1GP.

A nations cup with identical cars built by Ferrari, based on their 2004 F1 chassis but with a modified F430 V8 engine in the back.

http://www.a1gp.com/

[6297J]

That already exists; it's called A1GP.

A nations cup with identical cars built by Ferrari, based on their 2004 F1 chassis but with a modified F430 V8 engine in the back.

http://www.a1gp.com/


Exactly, and who watches that??

[6297J]

Things are even more fractured than I thought! Things are so bad at McLaren it seems Lewis is thinking of jumping ship -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article5979539.ece

I bet Ron Dennis is beside himself!!

[mike_cyul]

Things are even more fractured than I thought! Things are so bad at McLaren it seems Lewis is thinking of jumping ship -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article5979539.ece

I bet Ron Dennis is beside himself!!

Slightly off topic, but I received 4 separate virus warnings from the timesonline site. Probably an error in reading popups, but thought I'd pass it on just in case, because you never know.

Mike

[6297J]

This is the main thrust of it Mike -

Lewis Hamilton’s disenchantment with the performance of his McLaren Mercedes in the build-up to the new Formula One season is such that he admitted last night that he may consider switching teams.
McLaren have been so far off the pace that there are some who think the world champion may fail to make the top ten in qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix on Sunday, and Hamilton’s frustration appeared to be reflected when he said publicly for the first time that he could leave a team he joined to drive karts as a 13-year-old in 1998.
“I haven’t had offers from other teams and I am not talking to anyone. But I would listen to an offer from another team if someone asked me,” Hamilton, 24, said. “It would be a great compliment and it would be silly if I did not.”
Hamilton is just into the second year of a five-year contract, but until last night he had repeatedly said that he would be happy to spend his career with the Surrey-based team. To hint that he may have changed his mind will put even more pressure on McLaren to improve his car — and it would undoubtedly make their main rivals, notably Ferrari, prick up their ears.

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[Allen]

i still think they should make all the cars the same, except paint job, no arguments then about cars being unfair, if you come last, your just a **** driver :engel016:

That what NASCAR has done and evey one says it sucks now.

[mike_cyul]

This is the main thrust of it Mike -

Lewis Hamilton’s disenchantment with the performance of his McLaren Mercedes in the build-up to the new Formula One season is such that he admitted last night that he may consider switching teams.
McLaren have been so far off the pace that there are some who think the world champion may fail to make the top ten in qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix on Sunday, and Hamilton’s frustration appeared to be reflected when he said publicly for the first time that he could leave a team he joined to drive karts as a 13-year-old in 1998.
“I haven’t had offers from other teams and I am not talking to anyone. But I would listen to an offer from another team if someone asked me,” Hamilton, 24, said. “It would be a great compliment and it would be silly if I did not.”
Hamilton is just into the second year of a five-year contract, but until last night he had repeatedly said that he would be happy to spend his career with the Surrey-based team. To hint that he may have changed his mind will put even more pressure on McLaren to improve his car — and it would undoubtedly make their main rivals, notably Ferrari, prick up their ears.

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Thanks! :)


Mike

[cheezyflier]

i've always said they should have a racing series that is run whatcha brung.
anything goes. i could really care less if it's about teams with big money. it already is in every other series anyhow.

[wombat666]

Exactly, and who watches that??

The real hard core open wheeler enthusiasts like me!

"nah, the technology race is what makes formula one formula one".

Rubbish!
The engines all run the same V angle, crankshaft length, capacity, are "frozen" in developement, and are fixed in a V8 configuration.
The rubber is supplied by one manufacturer, as are the brake discs, and if one team run out onto the grid today (it's already Friday AM here) with a purple pole fixed on the nose of their cars and set the fastest times ALL the others will do the same on Saturday.
Odd how two of the three offending teams are well known for bending the regulations to ridiculous lengths while the third is a 'copy-cat' when it comes to aerodynamics.

EffWun has nothing to do with 'Technology', it's all about making money for a select few.

:173go1:
A PS: Two weeks ago we had the 'Historics at Philip Island', last weekend the first round of the 'Domestic Taxicab Series' in Adelaide, and both had record attendance numbers.
I usually end up with a couple of 'Corporate' passes for the GP, this year it is six, which says a lot regarding what is wrong with what passes for 'Formula One' today.

[Ferry_vO]

The stewards have given the Toyota, Williams and Brawn GP the OK to race:

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-stewards-give-green-light-to-diffusers/

[wombat666]

The stewards have given the Toyota, Williams and Brawn GP the OK to race:

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-stewards-give-green-light-to-diffusers/

But the others have just under 12 hours to lodge an appeal.
It won't stop the trio of 'cheaters' from running on Sunday, but it could go against them a few weeks from now, and any points 'won' will be removed.
Why am I unsuprised that Ross Brawn is one of the problems ....... :karate:

[6297J]

A PS: Two weeks ago we had the 'Historics at Philip Island', last weekend the first round of the 'Domestic Taxicab Series' in Adelaide, and both had record attendance numbers.
I usually end up with a couple of 'Corporate' passes for the GP, this year it is six, which says a lot regarding what is wrong with what passes for 'Formula One' today.

I take it you won't be going or watching then.

[wombat666]

I take it you won't be going or watching then.

Of course I'll go, I have friends running a Formula 3 car in the support events and we're all going to 'The Who' concert.
That aside, I get to 'make an entrance' (as usual) in my GT40R ......... :friday:
And if one doesn't take a look at the circus first hand to form an opinion then one is left to rely on media and team BS.

[6297J]

Where did this forum come from??

Sorry, I had no idea there was a forum for this on SOH and that this subject has probably already been done to death. Thanks to whoever the moderator was who moved the thread!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

F1 needs to find it's identity and stick to it. If it's:

1) a race what you bring technology show where drivers are secondary - then be that - and whoever brings the most money will win and the "losers" will probably pack up and go home. I think F1 would likely die a slow death this way.

2) a parity based event with more emphasis on drivers and teams than technology then do it and call it NASCAR without fenders on curvy tracks and watch the "big money" guys be all ticked off cause money doesn't guarantee the wins it used to although it still helps. Like NASCAR I think this is the future of F1.

Either way just make up your mind and do it.

A couple more notes.

1) Interesting to see Lewis Hamilton showing his true colors and character. Most drivers I think are honoured just to have a ride.

2) A race what you bring series commonly won't work - cars are too fast for the tracks and the subsequent insurance risks/costs won't allow it. It surprises me that insurance concerns hasn't shut down rally racing but I'm sure glad it hasn't - yet. It has forced NASCAR to slow the cars down from their potential.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Where did this forum come from??



:engel016:....
Stick around here and enjoy :wavey::jump:

[wombat666]

Ed, just throwing big money at Formula 1 doesn't work, over of the past 10 years or so Toyota and Honda have poured vast amounts of JPY into their teams and have failed.
BAR were another good example, big budget but nothing to show for it.
Having just had a first hand look at the 2009 cars on-track today I'm underwhelmed.
They are remarkably ugly, and I do mean 'Ugly'!

You're quite right, EffWun is neither 'Entertainment' or 'High Tech', the major 'news' dominating the season opener is the controversy over the three 'cheater' teams ........:kilroy:

I've long been an advocate of a basic formula which is a fixed length, width, height and weight, a set amount of fuel and a set number of tyres per event, and that's it.
Any type of powerplant, any number of cylinders, a free form of gearbox and as many wheels as you like ....... including 4WD.
In other words, if F1 is cutting edge technology then it should be exactly that, if not, then there are any number of spec formula series to choose from.

As for Insurance concerns, it has no real impact, the old 'Motor Racing is Dangerous' clause still holds up and the WRC will always be the WRC.

Ugly F1 cars aside, this will be a nice weekend trackside, good wether and with ticket sales well down plenty of space.

Quick cars so far on day one, both Toyota Williams, Kimi's FIAT and 'Local Boy's' RBR.

:wave:

[wombat666]

Where did this forum come from??

Sorry, I had no idea there was a forum for this on SOH and that this subject has probably already been done to death. Thanks to whoever the moderator was who moved the thread!

One of our well kept secrets!:jump:
Unlike most 'Motorsport' forums we respect opposing opinions ....... 'agree to disagree' rules.

[Ferry_vO]

Entertainment, Technology, diffusors, money,... Whatever! Time to race!

And with Ferrari on position 10 and 11, Renault on 12 & 19, BMW on 14 & 15 and McLaren down in 17 & 18 this should become quite the interesting season! :jump:

Toyota, Williams, RBR and Brawn GP take the top eight positions for now.

:d

[6297J]

I know practise can be very misleading but I was still surprised to see that Kovalainen completely outclassed Hamilton earlier today. Doesn't tell you much about the McLaren in comparison with the others but Hamilton is really struggling.

Predictions for pole tomorrow?

[Cazzie]

Well, I have to get up at 2:00 AM to watch qualifying on the antipodean side of the world. Small loss, I'll go to bed at 8:00 and set my alarm. Nice getting up in the wee hours, all quiet.

Caz

[stiz]

That what NASCAR has done and evey one says it sucks now.

well maybe if they turned right every once in a while it might make it more intresting :engel016:

[wombat666]

Just gone 10.20 and we're off.
Only have to walk a half kilometre and we reach our 'box'..... :wave:
Decided that the price of a suite for three days was worth paying as it can accomodate six people and due to a shortage of bookings the cost is about 50% down on the usual asking price.
Split between thee couples and it ends up better value than commuting to the circuit each day.
Perfect weather for the weekend so we'll see who's sandbagging and who's not.
Excellent support races so I doubt I'll be bored.
:friday:

[6297J]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching qualifying this morning, (except that the BBC coverage was appalling!! - they have got to change the commentator).

But, I still want to see relative fuel loads before getting too excited.

[Ferry_vO]

But, I still want to see relative fuel loads before getting too excited.

Voilà: the weight of each car with the fuel load it will start with tomorrow.

1. Jenson Button - 664,5 kg
2. Rubens Barrichello - 666,5 kg
3. Sebastien Vettel - 657 kg
4. Robert Kubica - 650 kg
5. Nico Rosberg - 657 kg
6. Felipe Massa - 654 kg
7. Kimi Raikkonen - 655,5 kg
8. Mark Webber - 662 kg
9. Nick Heidfeld - 691,5 kg
10. Fernando Alonso - 680,7 kg
11. Kazuki Nakajima - 680,5 kg
12. Heikki Kovalainen - 690,6 kg
13. Sebastien Buemi - 675,5 kg
14. Nelson Piquet - 694,1 kg
15. Giancarlo Fisichella - 689 kg
16. Adrian Sutil - 684,5 kg
17. Sebastien Bourdais - 662,5 kg
18. Lewis Hamilton - 655 kg
19. Jarno Trulli - 660 kg
20. Timo Glock - 670 kg

[6297J]

So I see - thank you.
The Brawns are a touch heavier than I was expecting relatively speaking.
Looks like Hamilton should be able to make up a dozen places or so in the early part of the race.

It's going to be a very interesting race I think :jump:

[Panther_99FS]

So I see - thank you.
The Brawns are a touch heavier than I was expecting relatively speaking.


Relatively speaking?

The Brawns are heavier than the next 6 cars that they out qualified to include Ferrari....

[6297J]

Relatively speaking?

The Brawns are heavier than the next 6 cars that they out qualified to include Ferrari....


Yes, that means they are heavier, relative to the next six cars and some of the others.

[Ferry_vO]

Button was 0.6 seconds faster than Vettel in qualifying with the weight of the cars as mentioned above. Assuming the cars will use about 2.5 kilo's of fuel per lap Vettel will have to pit around lap 18, and the BGP cars about 4-5 laps later. 18x0.6 equals 10.8 seconds and Vettel will have to drive a heavier car for four laps while the Brawn cars still have a light fuel load, which should give them another second a lap on Vettel. Unless they run into technical problems or fight each other too hard, it should be an easy victory for BGP..

[6297J]

Ah yes, but which one!

Is everyone starting on soft compound slicks I wonder? They won't last very long on a hot track.

[Panther_99FS]

Yes, that means they are heavier, relative to the next six cars and some of the others.

Which means they have quite a fast package :)

[Panther_99FS]

If Jensen wins,
It will be interesting to see how the Button-Hamilton feud plays out....

[6297J]

Which means they have quite a fast package :)

That would be the logical conclusion :mixedsmi:

If Jenson wins I am going to lose a very large bet as I was convinced Hungary 06 would be his only ever victory.

But I'd rather Jenson than Lewis anyday.

Hopefully Alonso will beat Lewis too, just to rub it in!

[Panther_99FS]

If Jenson wins I am going to lose a very large bet as I was convinced Hungary 06 would be his only ever victory.


:d :d :d

That being said,
I'm not entirely comfortable with the rules for the Kers cars vs the diffuser cars. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we see a rule change one way or the other...

[Ferry_vO]

Why? The KERS systems are optional for all the teams, and the teams with the possibly illegal diffusor just did their homework right. Believe me, if the FIA rules in favour of Williams, BGP and Toyota, most of the other teams will have a similar setup mounted on their cars for the next race!

[Panther_99FS]

Just my perogative - I'm uncomfortable with the current set of rules....

I can't place a finger on an exact point but something is amiss.....

For example if the rules make things "even" for those who have and those who don't, then why have (or not have) in the first place if it's all "technically even" in the end....

[6297J]

When it came to the rear diffusers Red Bull were one of the most vociferous of the protesters.
Then Vettel put in a very strong P3 and should do very well tomorrow!

[Ferry_vO]

Seems the rear wheel suspension design of the RBR cars will not allow a simple 'add-on diffusor'; they will have to redesign the entire rear-end of the car to take full advantage of the new diffusor..

I'm all in favour of the new rules so far; the regular front runners are now in the midfield, and Kimi, Lewis, Fernando and Felipe will now have to show how good they really are at overtaking.
Interesting to see how some have interpreted the rules and are now suddenly up front. Will have to wait how it unfolds during the next few races though; Melbourne last season wasn't really representative for the rest of the season.

[Panther_99FS]

Yep, we'll see how it unfolds alright....

Makes me think back to the Brabham fan car & 6 wheel Tyrrells that were both eventually banned...

[wombat666]

Before we depart for the circuit (just on 10.10 here) I can say with certainty that the track temperature will not be high, by GP time it will be in the mid 20C range.

The reason RBR can't come up with a bolt-on fix is simple, unlike the other teams they run pullrod suspension instead of the 'universal' pushrod set up.
One thing we (as in my usual buch of old racing farts) believe with absolute certainty is the three 'cheater' teams have a huge advantage, a view shared among the members of the various 'Domestic' teams where I have friends.

Let's be honest, Barrichello is very nice bloke, a good journeyman driver, but has never been a real contender, and Button (who I do think is good but past his best) has done nothing much aside from stirring up a media frenzy when he first landed at Williams.

Rosberg still has the potential to do well, while 'Nakajap' is part of the Toyota-Williams package and was a definate mobile chicane last season.

And while the Toyotas showed signs of being on the way up last year, and both drivers are (IMHO) good, one is past his best and the other is just beginning to shine.

So, and I must say in my experience, ANYTHING that Ross Brawn comes up with that might be interpretated as 'clever exploitation of the regulations' is always shifty, we suddenly find three teams with no real front ranked drivers giving the rest grief.

It rather proves the 80% car+20% driver equation.

Considering the possibility of a win by any of these teams as probable, with the same result in the next round, against the possible success of an appeal against them (it's not just RBR who are unhappy, Ferrari, Renault and MacDonalds are prime movers behind the protest!) and the resulting loss of any wins and points if this is the case, it will be what remains of the 'Sport' in Motorsport that will get a black eye.

It was mentioned yesterday that the controversial diffusers appearing on both Team Toyota 1 and Team Toyota 2 smells more than a trifle.

That aside, the cars are really ugly and the speeds have not been cut back into the bargain, I'll reserve judgement on the 'overtaking' after the event.

Of more interest to us ancients are the 30+ F5000 'Dinasours' having a very serious go in the support events and the welcome appearance of some very good GT racing, as the Porsche Cup has gone, so the assorted National' GT series have got together, adopted the European format, absorbed a good number of the Porsche runners and are turning on entertaining action with over 30 entries.
And those Astons are an aural delight!!
:jump:
Time to go.

PS:Ed, the six wheel Tyrrells were not banned, they were just a 'one season wonder', it was the far more effective Williams that was ruled out in late '81 ....... nothing really changes.

[demorier]

Don't think I like this late afternoon/sunset race time idea. It's plain old bloody dangerous. Trying to fly around high speed corners and straights with the setting sun straight in your eyes. I realize why it's there....it's just plain stupidity.

[Panther_99FS]

Wombat,
Thanks for the 'insider's view'.....:applause:

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

OK so I will try to make an effort to keep up with F1 this year. The machine is set to record the race.

Did a little reading and I know what a diffuser is as well as what KERS is and a little on how it works - battery which I understand but flywheel? an engine spins a flywheel so I don't get how this system would work. Still need to figure out the ins and outs of how these cars are set up. And how on earth does qualifying work? Why would you have anything but a minimum weight car unless it is like being at Daytona or Talledega where starting position doesn't matter.

Also read where Ross Braun is the smartest guy in F1 couse I'm sure he is no Smokey Yunick.

Not a fan of any team so I guess it doesn't matter who wins. What driver would be the Jimmy Johnson - in terms of character and driving style (smooth, efficient and always there at the end or close anyway) - in F1 today? Whoever he is I'll cheer for that team I suppose.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Not a fan of any team so I guess it doesn't matter who wins. What driver would be the Jimmy Johnson - in terms of character and driving style (smooth, efficient and always there at the end or close anyway) - in F1 today? Whoever he is I'll cheer for that team I suppose.

-Ed-

Tough call here because I don't think there's an "F1" version...

That being said, perhaps Kimi Raikkonen, Robert Kubica, or Sebastian Buemi might fill your bill....:kilroy:

[Panther_99FS]

Revisiting this thread after lap 6, I've forgotten about the Adrian Newey factor....

[6297J]

Oh dear. This safety car wont help push the Button :help:

[stiz]

well he won in any case!! :applause: :applause: :applause: :friday:

[Ferry_vO]

Chaos alright! :d

Great race IMHO, with plenty of action and overtaking.

I'd rather see two cars fighting for second and both crashing off than both settling for the points. Barrichello proved the BGP is not just fast, but strong as well. His diffusor was damaged in his crash with Kovalainen, but still he managed to get back on the podium. :applause:
Good to see Kubica and Vettel competitive, even though neither have KERS or a bigger diffusor on their cars.

Hamilton did quite well too, fighting his way back from the back of the grid to fifth. Overtaking seems a bit easier with the new rules.

[demorier]

I knew those front wings would be flying all over the place. But what a grand first race result from a new team.

[stiz]

was deffinitly a good race, the first f1 race i've actually enjoyed and watched from start to finish for years! Its deffinitly going to be an intresting season :woot:

[Ferry_vO]

More controversy: According to McLaren Trulli went off just before the last safety car situation, Hamilton passed him, but Trulli overtook Hamilton again under a yellow flag. The stewards are looking into the situation right now.

[Ferry_vO]

Trulli has been given a 25 second penalty for overtaking under a yellow flag so he dropped down to 12th, giving Hamilton the podium and Bourdais one point. Toyota annouced it will lach an appeal against the decision.

Vettel was penalised for causing the accident with Kubica, he will be set back ten places on the start grid for the next race, and for keeping on the track with only three tyres he got a $50.000 fine.

The results (For now..):

1. Jenson Button Britain Brawn-Mercedes 58 laps 1hr 34m 15.784s
2. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Brawn-Mercedes +0.8s
3. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes +2.9s
4. Timo Glock Germany Toyota-Toyota +4.4s
5. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault-Renault +4.8s
6. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota +5.7s
7. Sebastien Buemi Switzerland Toro Rosso-Ferrari +6.0s
8. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari +6.2s

9. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Mercedes +6.3s
10. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber +7.0s
11. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Mercedes +7.3s
12. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota-Toyota +26.6s
13. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault +1 lap

Rtd Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 56 laps completed acc damage
Rtd Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 55 laps completed accident
Rtd Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari-Ferrari 55 laps completed acc damage
Rtd Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 45 laps completed mechanical
Rtd Nelson Piquet Jr Brazil Renault-Renault 24 laps completed accident
Rtd Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 17 laps completed accident
Rtd Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 0 laps completed damage

[6297J]

Seems pretty chaotic to me!

It's going to be the most interesting season for years!

[Panther_99FS]

All in all, a good race :)

I know it's only one race in the season but thus so far after one race, the "fast" decision appears to run a car with either a diffuser or without KERS & without a diffuser. (It *looks* as if the extra power of the KERS isn't worth extra weight it carries).

Interesting side note is that former Benetton engineer Steve Matchett stated that if it were up to him, none of the cars would have KERS....

When Vettel pitted with 13 laps to go & had to put on the super-softs, I knew it was over for him right then and there & that Kubica would catch him...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Good race! Actual passing (not overtaking - what's that? - they need to use North American terminology :whistle:) and more than one car at a time on the TV screen which is what I recall F1 being all about.

As for who to cheer for well I'll try this team - since Panther says there is no F1 Jimmie Johnson. I assume they got their engine upgrade this past off season, have a pretty good diffuser and have a KERS system available even if they don't want to yet use it as it isn't where they want it.

Plus my DSLR camera is a Panasonic G1 - seems as good a reason as any to pull for a team.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Jarno Trulli drives for Toyota/Panasonic so that's fine with me :d

[EasyEd]

Hey All,


...A race what you bring series commonly won't work - cars are too fast for the tracks and the subsequent insurance risks/costs won't allow it. It surprises me that insurance concerns hasn't shut down rally racing but I'm sure glad it hasn't - yet. It has forced NASCAR to slow the cars down from their potential.


From F1Technical - At the end of 2005, the last season where the regulations allowed 3litre engines with 10 cylinders, some engines were producing more than 980hp and running very close to the 1000hp mark, a figure that was never reached since the ban on turbo engines. It was a sign for F1's governing body to change the regulations as top speeds at Monza of 370km/h were deemed hazardous for the drivers as well as the spectators.

I see F1 has concerns about top end speed and so must - like NASCAR - slow the cars down. Appears as though both series have the same problem technology making tracks obsolete and nobody designing and building tracks for higher speeds. Wombat said insurance concerns are nonexistent but I bet that changes once an F1 car flies into a crowd of spectators like a stock car almost did at Talledega. Both series are looking for parity and allowing technology to improve top end speed is no more.

-Ed-

PS Panther glad you approve of Panasonic/Toyota. :amen:

[Panther_99FS]

EasyEd,
The newer tracks have the "technology" designed for them....Like Malaysia & Bahrain for example....

[Cazzie]

Hey All,





I see F1 has concerns about top end speed and so must - like NASCAR - slow the cars down. Appears as though both series have the same problem technology making tracks obsolete and nobody designing and building tracks for higher speeds. Wombat said insurance concerns are nonexistent but I bet that changes once an F1 car flies into a crowd of spectators like a stock car almost did at Talledega. Both series are looking for parity and allowing technology to improve top end speed is no more.

-Ed-

PS Panther glad you approve of Panasonic/Toyota. :amen:

Ed, until NASCAR eliminates the COT, today was my last short track race.

Looks at bristol last week and Martinsville today, no actions, just like F-1 most of the time, follow the leader, can't pass, can't wreck 'em, the COT is a total and utter failure.

I never thought I would see the day when they would say Bristol was "almost" a sell-out. I mean, Christ, they ran 100 laps unders green last week, that is sacreligious at Bristol. All of the races at Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond have been dull events because of the lack of action. Read that as wrecks if you will, because dagnabbit that is the reason us rednecks go to these events!

I am through with seeing NASCAR live, they have ruined the sport with that POS generic car they run now.

And F-1 is no better, just another bully pulpit! But it was nice to see the big names turn topsy for a change. Young Lewis made a good show with the POS McClaren has this year.

Caz

[demorier]

So what happens (rule wise) if a team has not used there soft slick tyres towards the end of the race and it starts raining. The cars then need to go to dry tyres. There are holes all over the place just with the new compulsory soft tyre use.

[Panther_99FS]

Good point Demorier.....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,


Ed, until NASCAR eliminates the COT, today was my last short track race.

Looks at bristol last week and Martinsville today, no actions, just like F-1 most of the time, follow the leader, can't pass, can't wreck 'em, the COT is a total and utter failure.

I never thought I would see the day when they would say Bristol was "almost" a sell-out. I mean, Christ, they ran 100 laps unders green last week, that is sacreligious at Bristol. All of the races at Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond have been dull events because of the lack of action. Read that as wrecks if you will, because dagnabbit that is the reason us rednecks go to these events!

I am through with seeing NASCAR live, they have ruined the sport with that POS generic car they run now.

Caz at Bristol I think it is more the track than the car but at Martinsville and Richmond you do have a point about the car. What to do about it though. Only at the end when you have to "move" someone blocking is there "action". NASCAR needs to rethink their approach to short track racin for sure.

-Ed-

[wombat666]

So what happens (rule wise) if a team has not used there soft slick tyres towards the end of the race and it starts raining. The cars then need to go to dry tyres. There are holes all over the place just with the new compulsory soft tyre use.

No, rain means 'rain tyres', there were mountains of them available.
And of course, it is up to the driver to make the decision to stay out on slicks or come in for wets, depending on the conditions.
The general opinion (almost 100%) is the stupidity of haveing a hard and a soft compound that are so different it means a compromise setup, the soft compound is almost a 'qualifying' tyre and was shredded because most of the cars were biased toward the hard rubber.
What I object too is the ruling that every team MUST run both compounds in an event, that one has never made any sense to me.

[Panther_99FS]

Ah...
Life was so much more simpler when all you had were A, B, & C, compounds and no tire changes....:kilroy:

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I think the whole point to varying tires (whats a tyre?) is to increase the human element in racing. It is humans that make mistakes in judgement not machines/tires. By requiring both you better get it right as to when you use what - otherwise F1 becomes about technology - who builds a better car. The evolution that I see is steadily away from that - as well it probably should be - racing is entertainment. NASCAR went down this road F1 will too - I think the writing is on the wall.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

otherwise F1 becomes about technology - who builds a better car.
-Ed-

This is what F1 has always been about....

[Ferry_vO]

Once a race is declared a wet race by the stewards, the 'both compounds' rule no longer applies. :)

For this year Bridgestone isn't bringing the right tyre for a particular track anymore, but one harder and one softer tyre. In Melbourne the 'Medium soft' would have been the best, but they brought the supersoft and medium compounds to Australia. For the spectators it's more fun to see cars that are harder to handle, but for those more into tactics etc. the dual tyre rule allows for some interesting tactics. The ones that started on soft last Sunday (Like Ferrari) suffered because it was too hot to run the soft compound on a heavy car that early. Kubica was doing very well on the softer tyres towards the end of the race, when the track was cooler and his fuel tank almost empty.