GM Post 9.6 Billion loss ...we need mo money

[hey_moe]

Does this really shock anybody? I wonder where the line will be drawn...lol>> http://www.dailytech.com/GM+Posts+96B+Loss+Wants+More+Money+From+the+Feds/article14428.htm

[Navy Chief]

There IS no line anymore. But there IS a growing anger in this country.

NC

[Cratermaker]

I am so tempted to say so much more, but I will restrain myself. All I will say is this:

MONEY PIT!!!!

[wombat666]

I am so tempted to say so much more, but I will restrain myself.

What a very good idea.
:kilroy:

[Henry]

In actual fact it would be wise for
no one to say more
H

[Lionheart]

arrghh...

<-- holds breath..

:faint:

[Cratermaker]

What a very good idea.
:kilroy:
I have all kinds of good ideas! :wavey:

[Lionheart]

It would be funny to see BMW purchase Saturn and turn it into a huge money maker.. Turn it into a green car company of electric and hybrids only... Spaceage...

[Allen]

There IS no line anymore. But there IS a growing anger in this country.

NC

You were close there.

This is how it should go.

"There IS no line anymore. But there IS a growing line of angry people in this country."

[Cratermaker]

GM urges EU states to come to its aid

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8fb98036-07ff-11de-8a33-0000779fd2ac.html

Just the facts.... :wavey:

[OleBoy]

I'd love to interject. Tho this in NOT the place. All I will say is, GREEDY BASTICHES!!

[Snuffy]

Is this really news anymore? :173go1:

[Cazzie]

I said it when the bailout became an issue in 10-08, anyone supporting this bill is a walking zombie!

They should be made to declare bankruptcy. The real sorry part of it all is that the people they are laying off more are from their Opel and SAAB companies in Europe that are making cars that sell. Can't lay off those Union workers can they!

Caz, whose BP gets up every time I read about the entire mega-scandal and that is exactly what it is, by GM, AIG, the banks, the entire lot.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

All I know is, I'm starting a new job and looking at getting a new car in the next few months, but as much as I would like to buy American - my old Saturn SL has served well for over a decade - I'm not going to be looking at GM, or Chrysler. Ford is pretty good especially for the model I'd want (Focus coupe), but other than that nothing American-made matches up to a sporty Civic coupe.

Consumer Reports puts Honda and Subaru's average scores at the very top and recommends most models; America's Big Three form three quarters of the bottom four, recommending just a couple models from GM and none at all from Chrysler. But we're still bailing them out despite the fact that it's clearly not consumer confidence or a credit crisis creating most of their problems.

[Lionheart]

Amen Caz....


Lets just hope the bad stuff disappears and the good people and good corporations survive..

[Lionheart]

One more thing..


It would be cool if Saturn makes it through this.. That is one awesome car group. I think their present cars are not worth it.. but the group and endeavor is.. Would be cool to see someone pick them up and rescue them.


........and... I think it was Unions that helped destroy the American car companies.. There was a time when they were needed.. but now the Government has stepped in to protect people in work ethics. (Bottom line, a person putting on lugnuts shouldnt make 75,000.00 a year while an engineer makes hardly enough to live on).

My humble two cents.


Bill

[Cratermaker]

I'm hoping new car companies will rise to the occasion. Perhaps Tesla Motors, perhaps some of the other start ups out there. :jump: You know: new technology, new thinking.

[Lionheart]

I'm hoping new car companies will rise to the occasion. Perhaps Tesla Motors, perhaps some of the other start ups out there. :jump: You know: new technology, new thinking.

Man, that would be awesome.....


You know how GM was born?


Here is a short story...

A man who designed a little horseless buggy, very simple machine with a one cylinder engine and big flywheel to keep it from stalling, went into production. He called it the 'Olds Mobile'... The 1902 'Oldsmobile' swept America and made cars affordable.

Around that time, shooting for the 1903 assembly line time, a man who had a huge machine shop, offered to manufacture the engines at a cheaper price and that he could build more for less and better, increasing performance through better machined parts (better crank balancing, etc).

He won the bid.....

That man became quite successful.... He then did some thinking.. There were perhaps 100 or 200 (or far more) auto companies in the United States back then (yep......) and he figured he could get a hand full together and make a umbrella 'corporation' (kind of a new concept back then) in which several car companies pool their earnings together and through all times, when one would not make enough, the others supported them, and vice versa....


He started this 'concern' and begot General Motors.......




............and so you know, the rest.... of the story! Good day!

[Trans_23]

One more thing..


It would be cool if Saturn makes it through this.. That is one awesome car group. I think their present cars are not worth it.. but the group and endeavor is.. Would be cool to see someone pick them up and rescue them.


........and... I think it was Unions that helped destroy the American car companies.. There was a time when they were needed.. but now the Government has stepped in to protect people in work ethics. (Bottom line, a person putting on lugnuts shouldnt make 75,000.00 a year while an engineer makes hardly enough to live on).

My humble two cents.


Bill

Bill, I understand the frustration with the thinking that the unions destroyed the American car industry but can you tell me why, through all the years, the the failed CEO's of Ford, GM, Crysler get multi-million buyouts as they are booted out the door? What are the unions suppose to think when this happens? The money is there right? We want our cut. With the immigrant invasion upon us they all could have said "Screw the unions" and replaced them all with mexicans. But they didn't because it would be bad PR and they were paying their executives millions of dollars in bonuses and pay every year. Now, when the bottom drops out, the unions are the bad guys? What about the guys making more in a month than all the union labor makes in a year. That didn't have anything to do with it?
Moe, you should know better than to post this here. :icon31:

[Cazzie]

Bill, I understand the frustration with the thinking that the unions destroyed the American car industry but can you tell me why, through all the years, the the failed CEO's of Ford, GM, Crysler get multi-million buyouts as they are booted out the door? What are the unions suppose to think when this happens? The money is there right? We want our cut. With the immigrant invasion upon us they all could have said "Screw the unions" and replaced them all with mexicans. But they didn't because it would be bad PR and they were paying their executives millions of dollars in bonuses and pay every year. Now, when the bottom drops out, the unions are the bad guys? What about the guys making more in a month than all the union labor makes in a year. That didn't have anything to do with it?
Moe, you should know better than to post this here. :icon31:

Oh, I could not agree more.

I owned a 2001 Focus Wagon, wonderful car, did everything just right, never a burp. Saved my body from serious injury in a head-on in May 06. I will give testimony to their structural integrity. But that was when Ford built the Focus Wagon at their F-150 Plant in Norfolk by American laborers and they used the European design.

What do we have in a Focus today? Only a coupe and sedan made in Mexico that looks nothing like the beautiful European Focus. Is that not a brain fart of the top $$ thinkers at Ford - America.

Tell you what, if they would make this in America and put it on their dealer lots, i'd scoff one up in a heartbeat.

http://www.hyts.hu/autok/ford/focus-wagon-2008/ford_focus-wagon-2008_r6.jpg

I do not want a third-world car, take that Mexican-built POS and sell it in a third-world country.

Until then, I'll stay in a Honda Fit built in Ohio by American labor.

Caz

[OleBoy]

Tell you what I think. "We,.....the people" made the industry what it isn't today. All the bickering about what's good or bad is due to us....the consumer.

[Lionheart]

Tell you what I think. "We,.....the people" made the industry what it isn't today. All the bickering about what's good or bad is due to us....the consumer.

Well... I have to say that good products have no bickering..


For instance, I havent heard a single complaint about the Toyota Prius.


I really think gm shoots themselves in the foot quite often. Im sorry to say. They crush all those cool electric cars because they dont want to see America going to electric vehicles... wrong move.. and now, years later, its a 'stupid move' that has intensified. They were on the edge of something great, and bang!!!!! (ouch.. my foot again!)



:d

[OleBoy]

On that aspect I tend to agree. My grandfather was a machinist, and very good at what he did. He warned me about the automotive industry turning tail on itself. Fighting for what is, instead of what can be. Years ago there was a man that invented an engine capable of pushing an old Packard down the road. While doing so, it exceeded 40 mpg. The automotive industry took hold of that engine/vehicles rights and buried it to be never heard of again. That time the industry won. Who would have ever believed that cars from the late 30's & 40's could have gotten gas mileage like the Toyota Prius today. It's true.

I can't remember the name of the man who invented it for the life of me. But the auto tycoons bought his garage built wonder up before the general public had chance to hear about it.

[Lionheart]

Hey OleBoy,


Check this out.. Took a while to find it. This was announced many years ago..


http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/WATER/video/x3rt3_the-water-powered-car_auto


Use of water in which it is broken down into hydrogen and water, burned, and the exhaust is water again.. First developed for welding applications for safety.. (wont explode), but he found he could power his car from it....


Now its gone silent..



Bill

[OleBoy]

Interesting story. It doesn't surprise me that it went silent. The gas and/or automobile industry bought out the idea b4 it hit known testing. That alone would kill the auto industry, and more!!

[wombat666]

Tell you what I think. "We,.....the people" made the industry what it isn't today. All the bickering about what's good or bad is due to us....the consumer.

Very good point.
The only rationale behind the Europeans producing totally out of character SUVs was a perceived demand out of the US.
Audi, BMW, Porsche and VW managed to turn out oversized and overpriced (but superbly built) vehicles which had no reasonable place in any other market.
I had an opportunity to drive one of these monsters recently, weighing in a two tonnes and churning out some 600BHP DIN, available from your local Audi dealer now.
It reminded me of an upmarket M113 ..........insane.
:faint:

[Lionheart]

Very good point.
The only rationale behind the Europeans producing totally out of character SUVs was a perceived demand out of the US.
Audi, BMW, Porsche and VW managed to turn out oversized and overpriced (but superbly built) vehicles which had no reasonable place in any other market.
I had an opportunity to drive one of these monsters recently, weighing in a two tonnes and churning out some 600BHP DIN, available from your local Audi dealer now.
It reminded me of an upmarket M113 ..........insane.
:faint:

My brother had the V12 7 series Bimmer complete with armoured skin option. Extremely fast, even with all the weight... But why?

Was funny to open the hood and look inside. It was pure engine from the very edge of one side to the very edge of the other, front to rear. He had to jump the battery once. COuldnt find it, lolol.. Later, he found out it was under the rear passenger seat. Requires a special tool to flip open the seat to get to it.


:faint: