MSFS December 19th, 2019 – Development Update

[TuFun]

Icing!!

More here: https://www.flightsimulator.com/


https://msgpwebsites.azureedge.net/fsi/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Desktop-Screenshot-2019.12.12-23.27.41.04.png

[stansdds]

Yikes!!!! Well, FSX and FS9 also had icing, but it was just aerodynamic effects and the airspeed indicator would cease accurate functioning. MSFS will also have eye candy icing, so those wing ice lights will actually have a purpose!

[Javis]

Thanks for the HU, Ted ! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/smilies/encouragement.png

Just for the record, this same topic at Avsim, atm :

75 replies,
6462 views.

Here at SOH, atm:

2 replies,
130 views.

What is wrong with us ?

Are we all dutch ??.... ( dutch peeps are known for being sober, abstemious, matter of fact, first see then believe, maybe even uninspired or dull. Being dutch myself i wouldn't really know, would i. ( personally i am far from sober, abstemious or matter of fact'isch about our upcoming brand new MSFS, on ze contráry, i am bolted over with extacy about it! Can't wait!, Bring it on!, Are we there yet?! and all that :biggrin-new: ))
Oh, and btw, these sure are some of the most amazing, beautiful and mouthwatering screenshots coming from a flight simulator i have ever seen ! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/smilies/jump.gif

[Ferry_vO]

Are we all dutch ??....

I am, and I'm looking the proverbial cat out of the tree first Jan! Too many disappointments in the past with video games that promised a lot but upon release couldn't deliver.

[stansdds]

I dunno, it just seems to me that there are fewer and fewer people here at SOH.

[Daube]

I don't know if there are fewer people, but I always had the impression that "most" people at SOH were a bit relunctant to modern sims.

[CG_1976]

I’d love to see that effect on helicopters and CC138’s. Especially pictured from Canada’s attic. I don’t look at modern sims performance and effects from a GA sense, more like Bushy, SAR.

[CG_1976]

Also, I’d like know what the sim runs on, ie both windows and Apple os without dumbbell boot camp.

[wombat666]

I don't know if there are fewer people, but I always had the impression that "most" people at SOH were a bit reluctant to modern sims.

I think the trend for a very long time has been toward GA and Airlines, allied to 'Combat' sims such as DCS, IL2 and ROF for those inclined to military ops.
Without checking SOH does tend to have an older membership (mostly) who are relatively conservative.
The activity in the forums devoted to FS2004, CFS2 and CFS3 is significant.
I'm with Ferry, having been burnt several times I'm not rushing into this one!
While my almost completed new system should handle FS2020, it's primary purpose is for photography, not for any sims.
:devilish:

[jmig]

I am not Dutch. However, I am old and relatively conservative, and don't come here or any other GS site as often. Still, I for one, am looking forward to this new product from Microsoft. I am hoping it will be more stable and just work. (Hope springs internal in the flightsimmer's breast.) I am so sick of getting FSX/PD3 working right to see a random cosmic particle cause it to go south the very next day. I want a program that will, like Photoshop, MS Word, TurboCAD, Blender, etc. work when I start it up without having to fiddle with it for 30 mins.

Maybe FS 2020 will work that way? As i said,
Hope springs internal in the flightsimmer's breast.

[wombat666]

Just based on the trend that I'm seeing with most new releases associated with Microsoft I'd be betting the Farm on it being only Win 10 compatible.
Not something that will please many including YHS.
:devilish:

[n4gix]

It is Win10 only...

[stansdds]

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon your views and experiences, Windows 10 is the future and we will see even fewer add on aircraft compatible with older versions of Windows.

[Priller]

For people who want to check if their system will run this thing: (not for Wombat, his rig will run three instances of this sim at the same time) ;)

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=35975&game=Microsoft%20Flight%20Simulator

[Bomber_12th]

As Bill mentioned, its already been confirmed as requiring Windows 10, and also that it is DX11-based (not DX12). I'm already committed to this new sim (thanks to some Black Friday deals, I now have a computer to run it that matches what Microsoft are supposedly using (i9 9900k/RTX 2080)), so at this point Microsoft would really have to shoot themselves in the foot to lose my support (in other words, only if they were to start removing features/details they've already been previewing). All of the Alpha testers are bound to an NDA, but I just saw a recent video on Youtube in which one of the Alpha testers spoke of how excited he his for the sim with the in-game experiences he has had already. It sounds like all of the biggest name FS payware 3rd party developers are in the loop as well. I'm excited about the SDK already being previewed next month, and with the actual SDK release expected in March.

Based on the first Tech Alpha "Feedback Snapshot", it appears there is no AI traffic implemented yet, as it is among the developer's wish list. Somewhat confusingly, however, it is also mentioned in the Feedback Snapshot wish list that they still hope/plan to add ATC, though in one of the alpha tester screenshots there clearly appears to be an ATC message. Among all of the items in their wish list, AI traffic and ATC are the most important in my eyes, to have in the sim from the day it is released (all of the other wish list items can wait till later as far as I'm concerned).

[Moses03]

For people who want to check if their system will run this thing

Welp, my system failed miserably (if this test is actually accurate).

Like so many others, will just wait and see what happens once it is released and figure out the plan then.

[Javis]

AI traffic and ATC are the most important in my eyes, to have in the sim from the day it is released (all of the other wish list items can wait till later as far as I'm concerned).

Right there with you, John :encouragement:

Did read somewhere that default FSX ATC is already integrated in MSFS but that wouldn't cut the mustard not even by a long shot this time around, would it. It's a good start though, just needs a LOT of work (personally i could never get into any of these third party ATC offerings)

[Javis]

I am, and I'm looking the proverbial cat out of the tree first Jan!

Hehe... Great "van Gaaltje" , Ferry! :biggrin-new: ( for any non flying dutchmen, he wants to see which way the wind blows first ;o)

[Javis]

Here at SOH, atm:

2 replies,
130 views.

What is wrong with us ?

Well, we've got the score up to 18 replies, 380 views. Not bad for a day in the week. (another 'van Gaaltje')

[Javis]

For people who want to check if their system will run this thing: (not for Wombat, his rig will run three instances of this sim at the same time) ;)

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=35975&game=Microsoft%20Flight%20Simulator

Good one, thanks Priller! :encouragement:

Seems i don't need a new system ( i7-4960X@3.60GHz, GTX1070, 16G, W7, 2560x1600) but to celebrate the event of finally entering flightsimmers' heaven i probabely will buy one anyway. Getting a bit long in the tooth as it is. No better reason i can think of !

[Priller]

Good one, thanks Priller! :encouragement:

Seems i don't need a new system ( i7-4960X@3.60GHz, GTX1070, 16G, W7, 2560x1600) but to celebrate the event of finally entering flightsimmers' heaven i probabely will buy one anyway. Getting a bit long in the tooth as it is. No better reason i can think of !

I take these things with a grain of salt. Remember the min systems requirements of FSX? Now that was a sick joke...

Priller

[modelr]

For people who want to check if their system will run this thing: (not for Wombat, his rig will run three instances of this sim at the same time) ;)

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=35975&game=Microsoft%20Flight%20Simulator

I tried to get mine tested, but nothing works. The "choose CPU" and "choose GPU" slots just stay on the question. can't get anything on the drop-downs.

:banghead::banghead:

[Priller]

I tried to get mine tested, but nothing works. The "choose CPU" and "choose GPU" slots just stay on the question. can't get anything on the drop-downs.

:banghead::banghead:

You just fill out the first four letters/figures of your respective CPU/GPU and the dropdown list will appear! ;)

Priller

[Priller]

Here are the results for your rig:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73069&stc=1

More than adequate (and a lot better than mine) But the logic behind the analysis escapes me. I have a GTX1070 and mine is not listed as a bottleneck...

Priller

[modelr]

Here are the results for your rig:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73069&stc=1

More than adequate (and a lot better than mine) But the logic behind the analysis escapes me. I have a GTX1070 and mine is not listed as a bottleneck...

Priller

Thanks. Yes, seems strange. I'll have to go back and see if I can get it to come up.


Edit: I found I was looking in wrong place for entering info.

Bottlenecks info: showing what would be gained by different upgrades, all the way to the top. (Almost $2000USD just for CPU & GPU upgrades on MY rig, while using the same brand/model class of CPU/GPU!) However, the comparison readout, which was very comprehensive, said the cost/performance increase ratio is really not worth the expense, as my rig specs will run MSFS at better than 75% of max, and better than 160% of MSFS high end requirements. Since my eyes can't see what the paint and screenshot artists on SOH and the other Fltsim sites can, and my FPMs running P3Dv4.5 with ORBX, Megascenery V3, and most of the high quality aircraft, both freeware and payware, range from well over 125, down to maybe 15 in extremely dense cities, I think I'll stay where I am, for now.

[n4gix]

By October 5, 2019 it had already been widely publicized that MSFS would be a Win10 application only...

...so this "prediction" really missed the mark entirely!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73077&stc=1

[Thomas J Wood]

The plane development from my stand point will go right over the top. Not that I cant do it but the added cost in development will be transferred to the players and those prices will go up dramatically. So look forward to 100 to 200 dollar add ons coming from your favorite add on vendors. Also, many developers will just go to X-plane or P3dv4
I know that's where I'm headed because I don't think the add on market will be very strong for long term for flight due to its dev time and costs and what the dev will be able to recoup as it will require huge teams to build one add on soon.

Its not all glorious, where there is more flash there is more cost and that cost is passed onto the market.
I watched that happen with assassins creed, and Destiny 2. Those teams were 150 people each then they pushed for a crazy detail level and they had to expand their teams to over 1000 designers each to meet the demand, of course the end products came out at a killer high price ...it wont be different for this sim..."pretty" means more money it always will and we are not getting around that! Just the new software needed to build the add on will be tens of thousands of dollars to have on hand and even if they go for just the month to month payment its still a couple grand a month out the door BEFORE you even put the 1st poly into the project...lol Alot of teams are in for a big wake up call. I was lucky as I got into contracting to these huge game companies and I have all that stuff andd the staff now to build for this sim, but bottom line is the bottom line...if its not profitable for me Im out. P3d is fine for us. Or just upgrade another flight sim or what ever, build a one...lol


I will build two add ons for it and see how they do, if they crash I will just go build a game...lol

We will soon see.

Cheers

[Thomas J Wood]

Also MS has been eyeing the mod community for a very long time, and if they can build a flight sim so over the top that it cuts out the competition, then of course they will do that, better to only have them and 4 more then them and 150 others. They will control the addon market as well as this is for xbox so only addons and the dev teams they say will be building for it and they will have a hand most likely in every development. So things are going to change big time.

And of course its going in Windows x... its a business after all and profits are the BOTTOM LINE.

I think you will see a revitalization of an older sim after a year of flight. It will be very interesting to see how the community and market react after a year of flight. At 1st like all things it will sky rocket, but after a while when people get bored of the same planes and they cant afford a new plane every month or week..hehehe...then we will see how many stay on it.

Those at MS after all good little Ferengi--- Star trek pun there.... yes its intended.


I will build two add ons for it and see how they do, if they crash I will just go build a game...lol

We will soon see.

[Daube]

I'm interested in your point of view. Since I am not an addon dev, I cannot really understand (so far) why it would be more difficult to develop a plane for MSFS than P3Dv4.5 or XPlane11.
Could you give us a bit more details about this ?
As far as I know, the plane is divided into the following categories:
- 3D models (internal and external) and textures
- flight model
- gauges and systems
- sounds
- documentation

For the 3D models and textures, I don't really see why creating a 3D model with PBR materials would be more difficult in MSFS than for P3D or XPlane.
For the flight model, I do understand MSFS has a totally new technique for that, but the difficulty level might depend on the SDK tools, right ? And again, why would that be more difficult that maintaining the values in the tables of P3D, or creating the flight model (airfoils?) for XPlane ?
For the gauges and systems, the devs announced that porting over planes from FSX might require not so much effort, so maybe the gauges in MSFS are not so different than FSX ?
For the sounds I have no idea at all.
For the documentation, it doesn't really matter what sim it's done for, does it ?

Looking forward to any clarifications. I understand the "people who know" might be restricted by the NDA and we might not get any precise details any time soon, but anyways, I would be interested in anything that could be said on these topics...

[Thomas J Wood]

First of all we never go back wards or stay stagnant we allways move forward to new frontiers. It is what we do as humans. Those that don't move up stay behind...its the nature of things.

Presuming that they have used the same file and folder format, or that the same old software used to design for fs2004 and Fsx P3D will work, I mean the Cad program 3dmax and Adobe paint could be the only design software that could be used. They might have to go to a whole other level by going to Maya which is right out of range for most designers in its complexity and cost. I will clarify with a little story. We built a add on way, way back in the day, probably even before you were a member of this forum, actually the sim out house wasn’t even around or was very new in its induction as a community forum. The add on in question is the Cr1 Do 335. My team built this add on for Cfs2 and Cfs3…but its not in cfs3 you say…Well you are correct and here is why, yes this dose tie into this topic and question you are asking.


We all were happy little developers building whimsically away on our war birds for CFS2 and have a grand old time attacking each other on line and shouting at the other team that they stole this or tat from us and lawyers would be calling, yes those were the good old day for flight sim! All done publicity as well which added to the fun! Then came a grand announced from the lord of flight simulation the head counsel of the Ferengi (Character race in Star trek known for deception for profit) sent out a press release announcing a new CFS flight sim. They introduced a savior, a Messiah to all combat flight simulation freekaziods (like me) in short a lead designer named Tucker Hatfield, rumored to be long since fired.. and this is why.

Cr1 was then called Simtech Flight Design. We made Cfs2 add ons and we broke a lot of new ground only due to the fact that we all held degrees in computer sciences of one sort or another when no other team around had anything but their time and sweat into the sims. We had an advantage over the rest as we were actual programmers and game designers. But did that save us from near disaster at the hand of the grand Ferengi counsel? (Microsoft) In short…Nope. You see we were young, we loved planes so much that we just had to build them, flight sim gave is the avenue to do so with out to much effort or expense. We never dreamed we would be as successfull as we were. We sold so many planes we had to start a studio, which is now Cr1-Software and we continue to this day, not in flight sim as much but as a contractor for many types of software.
Anyways…back to my story. The grand Ferengi counsel sent out their representative, an unwary victim name Tucker Hatfield. He told us in question and answere forums that we would have not problem at all porting our currant add ons or ones currently under development to the new simulator, they had our backs and we were sooo important to them. Yeah…ok.

So we all bit onto the bate, some teams went head on into massive developments based on these statements that the grand counsel of trustworthy Ferengi had said to us, I mean heck it was in writing even!! How could we go wrong, they like us, they love us they will do anything for us because their messiah just said they would…didn’t you just hear what he said?! So we all, even myself, went head long into the lemming train that ultimately went over the cliff. I put the team onto a huge development for the time and even told people that the Do 335 would be good to go in either Cfs2 or Cfs3 and innocently enough as Microsoft had just told us that wouldn't be a problem. Well in reality it was actually a huge problem and one of the best lessons I have ever learned in dealing with companies like Microsoft. It was actually the best lesson of my life and has saved me on many occasion since.

Then the fate full day of hell!

Two months before the release of the combat sim CFS3 we were riding high as could be, we were among the top 3 add on companies in the world for flight sim and nothing we touched went wrong…till this fateful day that changed everything…in the end it was the one thing that made CR1 what it is today so in hind sight it was good for us, but later on for other great designers or teams it spelled doom.

Two people came to our studio, uninvited, announced. They just showed up at the reception desk and demanded to see me. The receptionist asked them politely who they were, they just handed her a card. They were from the head counsel of the High lords of all flight sim the Ferengi head office.
She brought them to me and timidly introduced me to a very pleasant lady and a dude that never spoke a dang work, like robot Larry.
They sat down and she asked me a lot of questions, who we were , what our plans were, were we going to stay in flight sim dev, would we accept other types of contracts and if we were contracting to other companies and who. I answered very vaguely as I didn’t like the feel of this , you know like the scenes were the CIA come out of the blue and questions Mouldar in X-fILES, THAT KIND OF UNEASY.

So after about 40 minutes of this she takes out of her hand bag a cd set. Plunks it down on my desk like a lump garbage and stands up and smiles and says, “Ok, thank you for your time, have fun with that, its a present from head office.” She chuckles and walks out with Robot Larry hot on her heals, did I mention that dude never said a word, and he even wore dark glasses, talk about play the part…LOL!
Dude dug his job I guess.

Well as soon as she was out of sight 7 designers and my self and even the receptionist (later became my best buddy and mother of my awesome kids! Best deal of the whole thing!) were huddled around the best computer we had all hunched over like ancient cave men (and hot cave woman) staring at the install bar of cfs3 creep ever so slowly across the screen as it installed. I might remind you that this was months before the release of the game to the public…As far as I know we were the only ones to get a almost gold beta at this time…you don’t down load these in those ay they either brought them to you or you just got a phone call and it was mailed to you. So back to the story…there we were a bunch of people huddled around around this computer like cavemen around the 1st instance of file, our eyes wide open, anticipation high, just about peeing our panties…cd1 went through and asked for =cd 2 10 hands darted to the next cd to put it in, ultimately and ironically the receptionist that got there first…Typical female, always at the candy jar first.. dang those females are fast!
She slides it in amid us all urging her to go faster… it slowly installs and we watch like star struck morons the install bars slid ever so slowly across, then it was installed, what do we do 1st…we do what all good designers will do, we ignore the flash and go right to the hard core guts… the file and folder system and all the dlls and other things in there to make sure we could put our add ons into the game with ease…

Then the bright blue skies of eternal flight sim bliss turned to dark foreboding clouds…then it started to sprinkle, lightly at first as the realization of what we were looking at hadn't quite dawned on us yet, then the soft voice of our very hot receptionist said it perfectly…”They screwed you poor bastards with a crow bar!” All nice and calm and sexy as ever you could imagine… then the rain came, in fact I torrential down pour…As I watched our receptionist wisely head back to her desk the team around me went berserk!

The game was completely different, it was a whole new format and our planes would not work! A year of lies! A year developing down the tube, The messiah lied!!!!!

You see that is how Microsoft operates, they say all sorts of stuff to hook you in, then it is all not as they say on release. That game you are eagerly waiting for is in fact a historic master peace that is the change of direction and a start of a new erra in flight sim. But the price is as is natural, high.
To build add ons for such a high end offering will require very expensive software to build, and then the knowledge and skill to actually do it is at the level of real game design.

What they have done is separate the self taught designers from the real designers. Why are they inviting in so called consultants from the community to help them write a sdk? That isn’t what is going on, its a crash course in how to build for the game, a actual teaching of the blind to see. Notice only certain ones are in the club? The highest sellers.

I can’t be on the inner circle because of the other companies I work for and the conflict it presents to my self and Microsoft. But I will tell you this I’m on a five star development for the biggest game company in the world and our stuff is the same as that game and I can tell you I had to send some of my staff to special courses to learn how to build that stuff, its not any different in that sim. That lighting alone is over the top, the textures are different, the way the models work are way different. This game requires real programming knowledge and game design training.
Also all those formats you mentioned are old now, way old, that is 30 year old tech and not at all suitable for a modern game. Its not efficient enough to run as fast as it needs to in a modern game. No Mdls will be there, actually Microsoft stopped using the old Mdl format for their games years ago and move to a new format, I assume that will be the case here as they need this game to process killer fast.

But there is one other thing I noticed that no one talks about...ever.


This is a Hypothesis but could be a possible resolution to that designer problem they would be facing.

They know that without the addon market the game will fail, that they learned the hard way a few years ago. They have watched Fsx grow and maintain its steady forward momentum over the years due to its add on community. They would be nuts to make it so hard that only a few could build for it.

So take a look at this. They went back to steam, and took back fsx, either ended the lease or just bought it back or what ever, bottom line it they have it back. What do they say? “ Oh we missed our old friend, and we are so happy to welcome back on old faithful friend” Errmm yuk…
Let us get one thing straight here, Microsoft is not sentimental about any thing but money.
Bottom line. They come to us and say they are sorry for past misdeeds, hmmm really? That just don’t make sense, fact is they don’t give a rats arse… there is a big reason they are acting like our long lost relatives long thought dead.

So why take FSX back if not to use it in some capacity to make it easier to for hobyists to add add ons into their sim with out add on developers actually getting access to the sim. Why not use fsx a a glorified container, you build your planes as you alwys have they sit on the players computer the Flight modula displays them from fsx into the new sim, pulls the model in the new sim and lets you fly you planes that you bought from me or who ever.

That would be how I would do it as it keep the devs grubby little hands out of the new flight sim, they cant reverse engineer it as its server side. I could control who build what for the sim and on and on it goes. And of course it will cost the players and devs a solid 20 buckies solid a month.
This would go a long way to building up the community even further.


Now if it goes in a direction that makes it hard and pushed the already too expensive add ons to a new crazy level then you will see fsx as it is even fs 2004 and cfs3 regain ground again.

But time will tell.


I will build two real hot add ons for it and they are already started and I will have to adjust them for th esim at that time bu tI wont ignore P3D and Xplane no way man.

Once bitten 50 times shy around here.

[Thomas J Wood]

it posted twice after edit I dont know why so go see last post.....sorry about that.

[Daube]

I understand your story and agree the false sentiments from MS should not be trusted.
However, two things I feel uneasy about, in your story:

1- These sentiments of friendliness, as far as I've seen, have not been expressed by MS so far, but only from Asobo. Not that it changes much, but at least that team has anything but "bad" communication. But yes, anything that would come directly from MS wouldn't be trusted by anyone here, not only you.

2- Concerning you disappointment at the file systems in that pre-gold beta of CFS3, I don't get how you could have spent so much time building the Do-335 for CFS3 without a SDK ? The way you said it, it sounds like you already had some info on how to produce an addon for CFS3, and it sounds like it's additional work from producing the same addon for CFS2, and finally it sounds like all that time was wasted because in the end the SDK was nothing like you expected and all your work went to trash ? This is not clear for me...

In the current case, I don't really care who gets involved in the SDK discussions as long as they are major devs linked to the community.
I don't care at all about the file format either, as long as addons are possible to be added.
The only valid concern I've seen so far in the various MSFS related threads on all forums, is the file integrity validation system, which *might* prevent us from replacing original files (autogen, textures etc....), thus limiting the potential coverage of future community addons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a blind believer, but as sad as your story was, I'm still looking for similarities with the current situation.

[Thomas J Wood]

I don't mean to offend you but the response is from one that isn't a developer and hasn't dumped a lot of money into a project just to have to rebuild it all to fit into a game that was promised one way and then given another way. Once the money is spent its gone, and if you have to rebuild its more money out the door so that is why we were disappointed... and if you had read the post you would have seen that they said the planes would port over effortlessly, they worded in in such a way to indicate no modification would be necessary to port. They were asked very specific questions by the designers of this community and we were not the only ones that moved ahead with a development based on what they promised. Like I said, were young teams back then, not like we are now. Now we all know better.

If you look at the time stamp on the models I will be releasing to free where is a week or so you will see that they were build in 1999 2000 and 2002...that is how long I have been around here. I have see it all. I only release when the market hasn't seen a addon for a long time to max my profits, and then I sit on the side lines and watch. I contract to other companies like war gaming, Bungie , Blizzard, Ubi soft and wait for my hobby to get ripe then release. It is not that I'm a shark or anything its just I don't get much return compared to the contracts. So I'm very leery of the statements coming from Ms. The flight sim dose look great and I am excited to see ho wit works out. Right now I have no plans on supporting it and am building for P3DV4 and will stay there for a long time. Or just rebuild and up date a older sim...

Actually its not a sad story in my view but humorous and funny. It worked out as we ended up doing a huge dev on what became a massive online tank game and then they built a massive online combat plane game and we sold them all of the 15 models we had built for cfs3 for their game, so we actually came out way ahead...lol.
The DO 335 was just the beginning of a systematically set up release schedule that would have seen the cfs 3 community getting a plane every three months for years. But that worked out a different way and we ended up making far more from these huge companies instead of just a few hundred thousand over the course of a 5 years.

All due to the misgivings of Ms or who ever they contracted. They did us a favor...lol

[manfredc3]

Well, I am Dutch, and I have mixed feelings about FS2020 and the "teasers" Microsoft is throwing at us.

On one hand I am in the "I'll believe it when I see it" state of mind..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "teasers" look amazing, but what "horsepower" (PC specs) are required to even come close to what is being shows.
I would say that a very big chunk of flight simmers are not in the position to upgrade their hardware, and may be forced to stick with what they've got.
Of course there is nothing wrong with sticking with what you've got, as long as it satisfies your "flight simming" needs. Look at how many people are still flying, and enjoying, FS9.

And on the other hand I am eager to see what the next platform for Flight simulators has to offer.
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At the moment I'd say P3d and X-Plane are the goto platforms. I use P3D for those add-on's that I paid for, or can not do without (like the Uiver DC-2).
And I use X-Plane because of it's flight dynamics and default level of scenery quality. Also the fact that most "plug-in's" are freeware can't be underestimated.
Just look for an example at the ZiboMod 737-800.

So, yeah I am on one hand the stereotype dutchman, but on the other hand excited to see what flight sim Microsoft pull out of their hat.

[b52bob]

I am with Manfred in that I am totally impressed by 2020. However, I remembered being burned by FSX when first released as it was a sled show. Two years later I finally could afford a computer to run t. I am sure the programmers are great and t will be a great sim. I will see when it’s released.

You ust know that MS is in it for the money. This could be very expensive. In the meantime I will stick to my XP11 and P3D.

[Milton Shupe]

I do not think any one here expects FS2020 to be built for "today's" technology. If it's not leading edge, how exciting would that be.

Of course, our computers will be barely capable of running it except (if at all) for the very high end ones. The sim should be developed with all the latest and greatest technologies they can cram into it else it will be a waste of development energies and expense, obsoleted in a few years.

I did a test on my more-than-capable FSX machine - failed on 2 of 3 requirements ... as expected. So be it; not looking for another FSX/P3D.

Surely, all who cannot run it will be extremely disappointed, but in time we will be able to afford that next computer and sim. Something to look forward to keeps us going.
Meanwhile we can enjoy it through other's eyes and experiences.

[codeseven]

I dunno, it just seems to me that there are fewer and fewer people here at SOH.

Could be. To me, SOH is home to primarily CFS and FSX and though the devs have been great in keeping both alive they are both really old flight sims. Unless your actively involved with either, or the slightly newer Prepar 3D, I think many folks have moved on.

Now that FS 2020 (in comparison a ‘seemingly’ far superior flight simulator in every way) is finally coming, I think you see a resurgence not only at SOH, but other flight sim communities as those flight simmers that have been waiting so long return to they’re favorite hobby.