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000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 13:49
Ummmmm. This looks like reality. I haven't seen anything look better.....


https://youtu.be/ReDDgFfWlS4

TuFun
June 9th, 2019, 13:50
Just saw the live video of E3 Microsoft presentation. Beautiful!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGu14fWM4dI

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/09/microsoft-flight-simulator-announced-e3-2019


(https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/09/microsoft-flight-simulator-announced-e3-2019)

DennyA
June 9th, 2019, 14:02
And note that it said during the press conference that it's coming to Windows 10 PC and Xbox, lest anyone be worried about that. :)

Bushpounder
June 9th, 2019, 14:02
I found this link as well. Just saw it on TV. Looks nice. For Xbox AND PC.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/09/microsoft-flight-simulator-returns-with-breathtaking-realism/

Don

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 14:05
Did you see that Ray tracing!!!!! Those flocks of birds and animals. The heat of the engine exhaust!!!!!! Self reflection!!!!

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 14:06
The night lighting and reflection off the aircraft! I'm at a complete loss of words.

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 14:42
To the SOH Admin. Let's join the replies in this thread to the one started my TuFun, as his title reflects the sim only and it's now known it's not an XBOX exclusive. Thanks!

icycle
June 9th, 2019, 15:04
Preview certainly looks very visually compelling. Certainly liked the land & city-scapes. Remains to be seen on which directions it goes - Realism, etc.
I guess I really did not want to save for retirement anyways.....

Bill

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 15:10
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000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 15:12
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TuFun
June 9th, 2019, 15:12
Website...

https://fsi.microsoftstudios.com/

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 15:13
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000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 15:16
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000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 15:17
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gray eagle
June 9th, 2019, 15:27
Well, this caught me flatfooted. I'm sure this is on par with the 64 Bit P3d V4 (series) and it looks fantastic. Now, I will just have to wait and see more info on MSFS 2019.
My rig in only a couple months old and has the mobo/vid card and memory to run P3D V4 (that was why I did an upgrade but never did plunk down the $$$ for P3D V4 and
all the upgraded addons that it would need. It looks now that and I'm sure the Devs will now have another moneymaker for them to cater (perhaps) to the new flightsim after
just coding for P3D v4. At any rate, what ever 64 bit sim I go for, I'll have to pony up for the addons that I already have of P3D V3 (32 bit). I do like the trailer vid for the 2019
flightsim but wonder what extent the freeware devs will cater to it as well and the payware folks.

Currently, I am happy with what I have (P3D V3) and I know those that made the jump toe P3D V4 are even happier.
With the announcement of FS 2019, I am at the crossroads of waiting for FS 2019 to come out (price $$$?) vs P3D V4 (Academic version).
I saw the vid on Virtual pilot and not as impressed. Just my 2 cents....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYYRY12ttA

Odie
June 9th, 2019, 16:04
Thanks all for posting this! Like Gray Eagle I was caught off-guard on my flat-as-a-duck's feet! It will be interesting to see the progress as it moves forward.

paiken
June 9th, 2019, 16:31
Hopefully this won't turn into the disaster that was "Microsoft Flight", but since they are marketing this for XBox as well it appears that it will have a similar structure; Basic simulation platform + pony up for super detailed aircraft and scenery. Don't count on ANY backward compatibility with either FSX or Prepar3D v.4...
Just my two bits worth, and I'm really hoping this will happen.

Montie
June 9th, 2019, 16:40
If we’re ever going to move forward we have to stop the backwards compatibility notion, it’s holding us back as painful as it might be.

Boss86001
June 9th, 2019, 16:43
We have been waiting for this since 2006!

Daube
June 9th, 2019, 16:59
Well... This was certainly unexpected, to say the least... :dizzy:

I agree with the concerns above though: let's hope this is not another "MS Flight" or "Flight Sim World" catastrophe...

Vitus
June 9th, 2019, 17:15
Soooo.... Did I get this right? The largest flightsim expo is currently being held in Orlando and Microsoft goes to the E3 to announce a new flight simulator?

azflyboy
June 9th, 2019, 17:27
Soooo.... Did I get this right? The largest flightsim expo is currently being held in Orlando and Microsoft goes to the E3 to announce a new flight simulator?

A flight simulator expo is going to have a few thousand attendees at best, and almost zero coverage from bigger gaming oriented websites. A presentation at E3 gets an audience of millions online, and a ton of coverage from big gamine sites, so this exposes it to a much larger potential audience than a flight sim expo.

bazzar
June 9th, 2019, 17:35
ummm... that shot of the tubeliner landing. Are we really going to have "on the fly" control over focal length and depth of field? Seriously? And in some of the shots, those clouds don't look 3D, more like a spherical photo projection...interesting:engel016:

FlyingsCool
June 9th, 2019, 18:23
I'm imagining we're seeing some preproduction shots. I'm happy. Backwards compatibility would be nice, but I won't be upset if it's not there.

Good to have more competition for X-Plane. Maybe it'll force him to get ground and water handling worked out. Like others, after the MS Flight debacle, I'll hold my thoughts on FS19, but it looks good, psyched about the possibilities.

000rick000
June 9th, 2019, 18:26
That shot is great. If you look closely I'm the video you'll see the heat blur from the exhaust.

Sundog
June 9th, 2019, 18:58
I'm shocked at the amount of immersion and systems modeling in this video.

https://youtu.be/McAkluYax7c

scotth6
June 9th, 2019, 19:02
This is amazing, and unexpected to say the least. As I just posted on another forum, I can't see myself installing yet another flight simulator (I currently have 11), BUT I will at least check this out. It looks too good to not at least have a first hand look.

jeansy
June 9th, 2019, 20:11
I'm shocked at the amount of immersion and systems modeling in this video.

https://youtu.be/McAkluYax7c

Thats Flightbeam KDEN with the pmdg 777 and GSX, i can replicate that same video for you

This will happen over the upcoming months people will be posting fake videos for the new plaftorm just like people have done for the past 14yrs since fsx was released like fs2009, fs2015 etc etc

heywooood
June 9th, 2019, 21:51
count me among the flabbergasted...
what the hell just happened? Is this a real MS Flight Sim promo?
am I glad I resisted buying into Xplane or P3D...?
We've seen MS promotional vids before and been underwhelmed...and lets not forget how LONG it took for the hardware to get close to handling FSX - will this new venture be a repeat of all that?

On the other hand - what a fantastic render, from the lighting to the weather, to the terrain and scenery. If it has AI traffic, ATC, and any kind of 'living world' feel to it it 'should' be amazing.

I registered for the insider program - just to keep tabs on it

Thank you Ted for posting this video here. What a surprise!

hairyspin
June 9th, 2019, 23:16
That shot is great. If you look closely I'm the video you'll see the heat blur from the exhaust.

I’m seeing a lot of heat blur on the flightsim sites, t took ages just to load this thread! A huge mug of coffee and a monster bucket of popcorn is in order, methinks...

Montie
June 9th, 2019, 23:27
count me among the flabbergasted...
what the hell just happened? Is this a real MS Flight Sim promo?
am I glad I resisted buying into Xplane or P3D...?
We've seen MS promotional vids before and been underwhelmed...and lets not forget how LONG it took for the hardware to get close to handling FSX - will this new venture be a repeat of all that?

On the other hand - what a fantastic render, from the lighting to the weather, to the terrain and scenery. If it has AI traffic, ATC, and any kind of 'living world' feel to it it 'should' be amazing.

I registered for the insider program - just to keep tabs on it

Thank you Ted for posting this video here. What a surprise!

No modern games makes use of modern technology. Build for future hardware died years ago.

DennyA
June 9th, 2019, 23:29
Note that it's not called Flight Simulator 2019, just Flight Simulator. Could someone fix the topic title? It will help avoid confusion with those fake "Flight Simulator 2019" videos on YouTube, like the one linked earlier.

Heads up that, on the product page, there's a link to sign up for the Insider (alpha/beta) program:
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator

Corrado5834
June 10th, 2019, 01:30
Note that it's not called Flight Simulator 2019, just Flight Simulator.

Like it's a new start, a whole new world.
Back-compatible or not this is just great!
Terrific news.
That's where most of us will be heading, I guess.
Fingers crossed though, you never know.

YoYo
June 10th, 2019, 02:42
To the SOH Admin. Let's join the replies in this thread to the one started my TuFun, as his title reflects the sim only and it's now known it's not an XBOX exclusive. Thanks!

Yes, now You can play in FSX or P3D with XBox controller too ;).

NEW FSX incoming!!! This is BIG WOW and surprice from E3 2019!

FSX and P3Dv4 or 5 ... bye bye ; )))) ?!

http://i.imgur.com/YdIAGcyh.jpg (https://imgur.com/YdIAGcy)

http://i.imgur.com/sNVPq7zm.jpg (https://imgur.com/sNVPq7z) http://i.imgur.com/IKjRY1ym.jpg (https://imgur.com/IKjRY1y) http://i.imgur.com/yFr4Qnbm.jpg (https://imgur.com/yFr4Qnb) http://i.imgur.com/yHax5Oom.jpg (https://imgur.com/yHax5Oo)

2020 will be year of simmers ; D!

Trailer:


http://youtu.be/ReDDgFfWlS4

YoYo
June 10th, 2019, 02:46
The title of this topic is wrong, not Microsoft Flight Simulator 2019 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/115921-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-2019?p=1187640#post1187640).
The relaes date is 2020 and the name is only Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Any moderator?

jeansy
June 10th, 2019, 03:06
The title of this topic is wrong, not Microsoft Flight Simulator 2019 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/115921-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-2019?p=1187640#post1187640).
The relaes date is 2020 and the name is only Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Any moderator?

1st world problems

Vitus
June 10th, 2019, 03:22
A flight simulator expo is going to have a few thousand attendees at best, and almost zero coverage from bigger gaming oriented websites. A presentation at E3 gets an audience of millions online, and a ton of coverage from big gamine sites, so this exposes it to a much larger potential audience than a flight sim expo.

That's true! Although let me point out that what happens at the expo has reach beyond the people that attend.

I still conceive this to be a bit of a slap in the face of the FS community. They could've sent one dude over to Florida to talk about it with the hardcore fans of the genre, instead they sidestepped the whole community to go to the gamers. That's fine, I understand the motive - however it also makes me suspicious that they don't really care for the bunch of us. I just see the parallels with Flight. :very_drunk:

On the other hand - new, posh, polished platform means opening flightsim to a new generation of users, which is in all of our best interests. So from that: good on you Microsoft!

BendyFlyer
June 10th, 2019, 03:32
Very impressive promo - initial target is quite unashamedly gamers and as a license on an X-Box system. 2020 is given as the release date and as far as the various blurbs go at the moment will be for XBox and PC (Windows 10). If the scenery and sky simulation is consistently as good as the few selected shots show, all over the world then it will be a winner with gamers no doubt. For simmers will come the perennial issues, can I add in my addons? especially aircraft and those out of the way scenery places Microsoft always forgets, will weather be real time? And can I use the flat screen as does XBox with the PC or not?

My gut feeling is yes and yes but knowing MS they will want to control the whole process and go the licenses and control the vendors for bits a routes which is not that desirable at all and if I remember correctly a certain now defunct owner of the last FSX sim program tried to do and failed. The whole new PC architecture and focus on game or visual performance and associated hardware is the most interesting aspect.

Under the hood it will be my guess familiar architecture for aircraft etc but the 64 million dollar question will be - Can you get at it? OR can developers get a bite without handing over a percentage to MS to do so?

Wait and see, certainly would not be launching into P3D or XPlane just yet.

Naruto-kun
June 10th, 2019, 04:15
Actually MS tried to control the 3rd party addon arena with Flight before DTG got hold of it and it flopped.

YoYo
June 10th, 2019, 05:09
1st world problems

I do not know if this is 1st world's problem, but it can certainly may cause users' mistakes about release date and too much "hope". :biggrin-new:

zswobbie1
June 10th, 2019, 06:23
That's true! Although let me point out that what happens at the expo has reach beyond the people that attend.

I still conceive this to be a bit of a slap in the face of the FS community. They could've sent one dude over to Florida to talk about it with the hardcore fans of the genre, instead they sidestepped the whole community to go to the gamers. That's fine, I understand the motive - however it also makes me suspicious that they don't really care for the bunch of us. I just see the parallels with Flight. :very_drunk:

On the other hand - new, posh, polished platform means opening flightsim to a new generation of users, which is in all of our best interests. So from that: good on you Microsoft!

A slap in the face?
Indeed, It should be pretty obvious to all, that there are far more gamers than simmers. And, do not forget, all the sims from the Microsoft stable, DID come from ACES Gaming Studio & was marketed as a game. As you are aware, P3D was built on ESP's core, Microsoft's commercial sim, & is marketed as 'Not for Entertainment' & can be licenced with appropiate hardware as a professional training device.. ie. Not a game.

So, for Microsoft to turn to gamers, well, an obvious choice, really!

stiz
June 10th, 2019, 06:58
and lets me honest, its not like the FS community hasn't slapped MS a few times in the past, fairs fair :monkies:

gray eagle
June 10th, 2019, 06:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5QCebSGKI


I saw the video ^ above on FS19 and as I heard passenger chatter getting off the plane it brought to mind this video and wonder if the buh byes would be incorporated :biggrin-new:


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgu5tb

stovall
June 10th, 2019, 07:05
To the SOH Admin. Let's join the replies in this thread to the one started my TuFun, as his title reflects the sim only and it's now known it's not an XBOX exclusive. Thanks!

Done Rick, I also changed the title to reflect the announcement.

Willy
June 10th, 2019, 07:09
I'd like to see what they can do with a new version of FS, but based on previous experience, I'm going to hold off on getting too excited about it. Too many years of trust issues with MS when it comes to the latest and greatest flight sims. Flight comes to mind here.

vortex
June 10th, 2019, 07:46
I'd like to see what they can do with a new version of FS, but based on previous experience, I'm going to hold off on getting too excited about it. Too many years of trust issues with MS when it comes to the latest and greatest flight sims. Flight comes to mind here.

But it was more of a marketing policy/strategy that sealed Flight's fate. The underlying sim had a lot of potential. If it hadn't been for MS in the first place, we probably wouldn't even have a flight sim community!

It's just typical in the flight sim world that everyone wants a modern, all-encompassing sim which uses the latest technology and then, when it looks like one is coming along, the prophets of doom appear before anyone really knows any actual details and risk killing it off (FSW springs to mind here)! I'm very excited about this but I'm also prepared to wait and see what's actually delivered rather than just speculating about it.

000rick000
June 10th, 2019, 08:13
The "Prophets of Doom" didn't take down FSW, their own ignorance did. They ignored the entire community and pressed ahead with an agenda that was exclusive and decisive and then they wanted us to pay for "content" that would have been freeware elseware. Unfortunate as it was, their own lack of market research did them in. They pretended to understand the audience and went ahead saying one thing and pushing another. People voted with their wallets. The "Prophets of Doom" we're just level headed individuals who pointed out a cause and effect relationship with what might happen given certain decisions.

I really hope that this one pans out. But In have a sneaking suspicion that it will be DLC and micro transaction based. Also sounds like it will be streaming content from the MS AZURE Cloud.

A silver lining is that it is possible to enjoy a stand alone sim. If it's enjoyable as is. A living world, as it looks like might be just the thing.

I'm still hoping that the big news from LM regarding the new P3D gfx engine will have P3D looking like this does.

dvj
June 10th, 2019, 08:25
X-Box project Scarlett. Due out at the end of the year. I would not mind a dedicated box like this for flight sim. Some of the new specs are going to be very good for gaming. 8K? 80-inch 8K TV will probably blow the budget to the point that you could buy a real plane. Wonder who will be doing scenery and aircraft add-ons?

-d

YoYo
June 10th, 2019, 08:55
I think this tittle will use also ray tracing. Fingers crossed :applause:

000rick000
June 10th, 2019, 09:42
I think this tittle will use also ray tracing. Fingers crossed :applause:

It will. At least for XBOX. That is going to be the standard.

Moses03
June 10th, 2019, 09:50
Great that MS is continuing the legacy.

I'm an optimist. Let's see how the development plays out.

Kevin

000rick000
June 10th, 2019, 09:51
I also think that Ray Tracing will be an option in a future P3D iteration. I think they will leverage The tech. It only makes sense.

Priller
June 10th, 2019, 09:59
Competition between this and P3D is great news for us flightsimmers!

Now the EULA of P3D suddenly makes sense!

Priller

gman5250
June 10th, 2019, 10:32
Well...this one caught me completely by surprise like many others. That said, I have one or two fundamental questions and a few observations. First glance I see everything I would want to ask for i.e. self reflections, ray tracing, 64bit, PC and Xbox support, photo real with autogen etc. If all of those features are to be included we are looking at a major leap forward from MS.

If we are looking at ray tracing, we are looking at a major investment in the NVIDIA RTX 2080 or higher. Those numbers can go up to 6K. The card requires a compatible MOBO, CPU, memory and a couple of 2TB SSD drives. A good system is going to require a significant investment...lets say $4K at the entry level, if you build it yourself.

Questions:
I'm curious as to how much of the global environment is Photo Real, and how much is CG?
Will the sim support full PBR integration that allow devs to work with established tools?

Opinion:
Leaving my now codified and unbridled contempt for MS (in the aftermath of my recent loss) aside, I will be content to compare the new sim side by side with P3Dv5, if and when they meet expectations. I'm inclined to stay with Prepar3D as I have been with that platform since P3Dv2. Not having see the full potential of V5, it is really impossible to evaluate the two fairly until we can kick the tires...so to speak.

One thing for sure, things are looking extremely encouraging for hard core training level sim enthusiasts. The gamers can tag along if they wish.

Sundog
June 10th, 2019, 10:40
Well...this one caught me completely by surprise like many others. That said, I have one or two fundamental questions and a few observations. First glance I see everything I would want to ask for i.e. self reflections, ray tracing, 64bit, PC and Xbox support, photo real with autogen etc. If all of those features are to be included we are looking at a major leap forward from MS.

If we are looking at ray tracing, we are looking at a major investment in the NVIDIA RTX 2080 or higher. Those numbers can go up to 6K. The card requires a compatible MOBO, CPU, memory and a couple of 2TB SSD drives. A good system is going to require a significant investment...lets say $4K at the entry level, if you build it yourself.

Questions:
I'm curious as to how much of the global environment is Photo Real, and how much is CG?
Will the sim support full PBR integration that allow devs to work with established tools?

Opinion:
Leaving my now codified and unbridled contempt for MS (in the aftermath of my recent loss) aside, I will be content to compare the new sim side by side with P3Dv5, if and when they meet expectations. I'm inclined to stay with Prepar3D as I have been with that platform since P3Dv2. Not having see the full potential of V5, it is really impossible to evaluate the two fairly until we can kick the tires...so to speak.

One thing for sure, things are looking extremely encouraging for hard core training level sim enthusiasts. The gamers can tag along if they wish.

What I'll be interested in seeing is if they make some way to connect advanced controllers (HOTAS, etc.) through the XBox. If they can, then it would make more sense for me to buy an XBox than to build a new PC, for Simming anyway. Also, due to the scaling (Number of XBox's sold versus PC's that can run flightsim) that could be a bargain. I wouldn't mind having a separate PC for development and work applications and XBox for the simming if they can do that. But, like everyone else, I'll have to wait and see what "it" actually is, behind all of the pretty videos.

Priller
June 10th, 2019, 11:17
The gamers can tag along if they wish.

My thoughts exactly!! ;)

Priller

Rudyjo
June 10th, 2019, 11:52
If all my FSX planes (A2A) and 3rd party scenery can be transferred into this, I would look forward to this.
Didn't Microsoft sell their Flight Simulator rights to Steam?

Ferry_vO
June 10th, 2019, 11:52
The video looks awesome, but E3 trailers are not always realistic (Watch dogs, anyone..?) so I'll wait for the final result and system requirements. Then again, the minimal requirements for FsX were a joke too..

Ferry_vO
June 10th, 2019, 11:54
If all my FSX planes (A2A) and 3rd party scenery can be transferred into this, I would look forward to this.
Didn't Microsoft sell their Flight Simulator rights to Steam?

Don't count on backwards compatibility with add-ons, as they have most likely moved to a brand new engine to run the sim on.
And they sold the FsX rights to Dovetail games.

Stefano Zibell
June 10th, 2019, 12:02
It appears to use something similar to what google earth uses to render 3D objects from a satellite/aerial 2D photograph.

Thus, it will only work online, streaming textures in real time from MS servers.

Some areas of the world do not have good satellite imagery available.

It appears to ship with a fully simulated A320, and this is great.

Anyway these are my initial observations/considerations.

DennyA
June 10th, 2019, 13:05
There are indeed a couple of HOTAS combos for the Xbox One: Amazon's listing (https://amzn.to/2MGGOce)

Be fun to fly this on both my PC sim setup and on my 65' TV on the Xbox! (I wouldn't buy any joysticks until more details are available, of course, but good to know they exist.)

mike_cyul
June 10th, 2019, 14:46
:) :) :) At last!

For myself, while enhanced aircraft graphics are great, I'd like to see really good weather, aerodynamics, on board systems and engine performance, up-to-date navaids and real geography - the stuff related to flight. And from the preview it seems as if the geography and graphics are taken care of. Can't wait to see what it's like.

blanston12
June 10th, 2019, 14:52
Its hard for me to imagine M$ would create this new platform without having some sort of online 'store', steam and the iPhones app store are quite successful, and can be valuable if done right. As long as they have a way for freeware without too many hurdles it could be useful. In our current environment, either you get a zip file with all the files you have to install manually, which is off putting if your not experienced at it, or you get an exe installer from someone you don't know well which if you know what your doing, should make you very nervous.

vortex
June 10th, 2019, 15:58
The "Prophets of Doom" didn't take down FSW, their own ignorance did. They ignored the entire community and pressed ahead with an agenda that was exclusive and decisive and then they wanted us to pay for "content" that would have been freeware elseware. Unfortunate as it was, their own lack of market research did them in. They pretended to understand the audience and went ahead saying one thing and pushing another. People voted with their wallets. The "Prophets of Doom" we're just level headed individuals who pointed out a cause and effect relationship with what might happen given certain decisions.

Going off-topic for a short rant! Did you actually try FSW? I did and it was surprisingly good for the early stage of development it had reached. However, it was doomed even before it was released by well-known YouTubers and posts in forums saying how it was bound to be rubbish and then much later grudgingly admitting that it was actually quite good (by those who actually bothered to try it). By then the damage was done. Every good sim is fundamentally just a base to add content to and FSW was no different in that respect. No one will ever know if the promised public release of the SDK would have generated freeware because it wasn't allowed to get that far. None of the add-on aircraft that were available for it were produced by DTG, they were from other developers who saw potential in the sim, so people were hardly being held to ransom by the developers. DTG interacted much more with their customer base than any of the other sim manufacturers and they were starting to introduce some real innovations before it was cancelled (trueSKY, for example).

Unlike DTG, Microsoft are big enough to ride out any speculative bad press but it's already interesting to see how many rumours (based on zero facts) are already flying around the forums: it will be cloud-based, just eye candy with no study sim aircraft, a subscription-only service, good scenery only in very small areas, no 3rd party add-ons, it's going to eventually be for XBox as well so can't possibly be a "real" sim... I could go on but I won't. Some of them may actually prove to be true but nobody outside of Microsoft actually knows for sure. I just don't understand why people can't see it as potentially what we've all been waiting for since FSX was released. Are we really all that jaded?

tommieboy
June 10th, 2019, 16:23
Exciting news indeed!

Monthly or Yearly subscription rates? :playful:


Tommy

Paul K
June 10th, 2019, 18:43
:) :) :) At last!

For myself, while enhanced aircraft graphics are great, I'd like to see really good weather, aerodynamics, on board systems and engine performance, up-to-date navaids and real geography - the stuff related to flight. And from the preview it seems as if the geography and graphics are taken care of. Can't wait to see what it's like.

So we can expect a ported Halifax/Halton package ? ;)

DennyA
June 10th, 2019, 19:58
A bit more info from the Microsoft E3 press release:



"MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR" (XBOX ONE AND WINDOWS 10 PC). The next generation of our longest-running franchise, "Microsoft Flight Simulator," is coming to Windows 10 with Xbox Game Pass in 2020, and coming to Xbox One at a later date. "Microsoft Flight Simulator" is specifically designed to celebrate flight simulation fans through a focus on the authenticity of flying and visually stunning environments. By revamping our tech, working in close collaboration with the community and pursuing the best partnerships across the industry, we intend to deliver the best-in-class flight simulation experience.

mike_cyul
June 10th, 2019, 21:10
So we can expect a ported Halifax/Halton package ? ;)

If the SDK allows (with the careful assumption there is one), why not? :)

zswobbie1
June 10th, 2019, 22:07
Don't count on backwards compatibility with add-ons, as they have most likely moved to a brand new engine to run the sim on.
And they sold the FsX rights to Dovetail games.

Firstly, yes, they will be using a new engine, and, as far as backward compatibility goes, keep your old addons for the sims that they were designed for... Can you imagine the future questions asking if updates of your addons are going to be free, statements like.. 'I'm not getting the new sim because my older addons won't work' and so forth..

Obviously, as DTG has the rights to FSX, and Lockheed Martin has ESP, the pro commercial version of FSX, it seem obvious that the sim will not be compatible to the current offerings of addons.

So, the search for the Holy Grail continues, and we have a year, or so, of comments and speculation, we will, as usual at times like this, read comments like.. I won't get it if it does not run on my Windows XP, if there's no FSUIPC for it, if I cannot use my addons that I've spent so much money on, the list will go on..

So, with a minute or two of a video, the 'experts' are out in full force..

wombat666
June 11th, 2019, 00:27
Hope they don't make a hash of it this time if it is to be for Xbox as well as the one true faith.
'Great Graphics' will be welcome provided they run on a reasonable spec PC and not just on a Cray, but I wouldn't bet the Farm on it.

:devilish:

Ferry_vO
June 11th, 2019, 02:01
Exciting news indeed!

Monthly or Yearly subscription rates? :playful:



Monthly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-game-pass-pc-games/cfq7ttc0kgq8

$4.99 or €4, with an offer for $1 now, and 20% off if you buy a game, and 10% off DLC.

Not sure if FSXI will be available to purchase right away, it could be an 'exclusive' title for the Xbox pass for some time.

BendyFlyer
June 11th, 2019, 04:16
Well I am a hard bitten cynic when it comes to Microsoft and had a good think about this one. I agree with Bazaar on the technical issues and presentation vids.

Given Microsoft's past form my conclusion is that this is a X-Box sales gimmick in the same way that Flight Simulator originally was for PC's, helped sell a lot of PC's, but developed a life of its own. MS really need something to shift the market for games in their direction thats all, they figure this will help.

The trouble is the early Flight Sim developers were actually interested in creating a flight simulator (and solved a whole bunch of other computing problems on the way which MS wanted not the sim) so I am convinced this is for the gamers and will be a license buy to add into X-Box. IF your using X-Box then you have a whole bunch of computer coding issues not to mention the blue-ray portal as well to even get there and MS is not going to drop this into any collaborative specialised community (also known as the flight simulator community) no matter what, they will control this from go to whoa. The lesson they (MS) learnt from the earlier attempt, Flight, was a stand alone will not fly sales ( in large corp speak - insufficient volume) wise due to lack of take up and overhead and quite simply they needed the huge amount of work done by the sim community to make it palatable and in the end wanted to give nothing back for getting it. You might get it with Windows 10 but you won't be able to do much but play with it, a fancy version of solitaire in my opinion. I am may be wrong but nothing I have learned about MS over the years has changed that view, they always go to market early, rely on the corporate license base to make money and then spend the next 5 years fixing the crap and then start all over again when the next generation of processor hits the market. Why because sitting in the wings is the big Alphabet and they already have a sim that uses Google Earth so how you going to compete against that if they get serious. Nah just Corporate fairy floss!!

zswobbie1
June 11th, 2019, 04:36
Ok, so, after a bit of sleuthing, & registering on Xbox insider, the new sim will be available from Xbox Games Pass!


(https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/06/09/xbox-e3-2019-briefing-recap/)
Microsoft Flight Simulator (Xbox One And Windows 10 PC)
The next generation of our longest-running franchise, Microsoft Flight Simulator is coming to Windows 10 with Xbox Game Pass in 2020, and coming to Xbox One at a later date. Microsoft Flight Simulator is specifically designed to celebrate flight simulation fans through a focus on the authenticity of flying and visually stunning environments. By revamping our tech, working in close collaboration with the community and pursuing the best partnerships across the industry, we intend to deliver the best-in-class flight simulation experience.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/pc-games

with a monthly fee, apart from any cost of game.

DC1973
June 11th, 2019, 04:50
It's so easy to get into the speculation game when we see something as exciting as this suddenly drop out of nowhere. Despite what I think is a world-wide mistrust of the motivations of companies like Microsoft, I'd like to think that if they didn't think there was a worldwide demand for a modern flight simulator that could generate revenue for them, they wouldn't bother building one. How they choose to generate that revenue is, of course, what worries us all. Still, for the time being we can only hope that they have learned from previous fiascos like Flight and the more recent collapse of FSW and will produce a title that meets the demands and desires of all users. My personal wish-list would be as follows;1) Allowance for third-party development, both freeware and payware, with an SDK. Without that, no matter how pretty the sim looks, the community simply won't be there to back the sim and MS can't build everything itself. Freeware leads to payware, and the enthusiasm of developers, and consumers for their products as they're released, is what kept the whole community alive in those years when there looked to be no new sims on the horizon.2) The ability to use the sim when the Internet throws a wobbly. If the terrain is streamed, this won't be possible, obviously, but I remain hopeful. There's nothing worse than not being able to play something you've paid for just because some server half-way round the world has gone kaput.3) The ability to buy the sim outright, and not be tied into a subscription service that contains small print also tying your family into Microsoft for the next billionty years.4) SDK routines to convert existing models and scenery into whatever wondrous new format the new sim uses. Outright compatibility won't work out of the box, doubtless, and if the coding is different then of course gauges and other devices will also be broken. But these things can be fixed, provided there is at least a will and a workflow available to try to do so.Beyond that, I'm just glad that there's another sim on the way. P3D is fabulous, but it was high time a next-generation sim entered the field. Let's hope that MS can provide something that, as much as possible, keeps PC sim enthusiasts and console gamers happy.

vortex
June 11th, 2019, 07:36
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/pc-games

with a monthly fee, apart from any cost of game.

Microsoft are also releasing new games on Steam so maybe that will also happen with MSFS: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/microsoft-games-on-steam-announced/. If it definitely becomes a subscription service, I'm not sure that any of the more casual simmers will go for it if they have to pay but only use it occasionally.

FlyingsCool
June 11th, 2019, 08:41
I guarantee it will not work on XP

000rick000
June 11th, 2019, 09:02
Going off-topic for a short rant! Did you actually try FSW? I did and it was surprisingly good for the early stage of development it had reached. However, it was doomed even before it was released by well-known YouTubers and posts in forums saying how it was bound to be rubbish and then much later grudgingly admitting that it was actually quite good (by those who actually bothered to try it). By then the damage was done. Every good sim is fundamentally just a base to add content to and FSW was no different in that respect. No one will ever know if the promised public release of the SDK would have generated freeware because it wasn't allowed to get that far. None of the add-on aircraft that were available for it were produced by DTG, they were from other developers who saw potential in the sim, so people were hardly being held to ransom by the developers. DTG interacted much more with their customer base than any of the other sim manufacturers and they were starting to introduce some real innovations before it was cancelled (trueSKY, for example).

Unlike DTG, Microsoft are big enough to ride out any speculative bad press but it's already interesting to see how many rumours (based on zero facts) are already flying around the forums: it will be cloud-based, just eye candy with no study sim aircraft, a subscription-only service, good scenery only in very small areas, no 3rd party add-ons, it's going to eventually be for XBox as well so can't possibly be a "real" sim... I could go on but I won't. Some of them may actually prove to be true but nobody outside of Microsoft actually knows for sure. I just don't understand why people can't see it as potentially what we've all been waiting for since FSX was released. Are we really all that jaded?

Nope I never did do the FSW thing. Fully invested in P3D. I had no desire to support DTG which was IMO a leech on the community brain trust.

FlyingsCool
June 11th, 2019, 09:10
Do we really know what killed DTG FSW? People keep talking about their "mistakes" in how they were going to charge for it and getting vilified in the community.... Despite what many people think, if they were going to make money, their market better have been much larger than the forum based flightsim community. Perhaps they got word that MS was developing this new version and decided their piece of the pie would end up too small with the release of the new version, not to mention their likely underestimating how much it would cost to develop the product. Also, I do believe that the P3D EULA is structured so it wouldn't compete with any future offerings from MS. My bet is that flight simmers are just a small bit of P3D's market. Of course, I could be wrong on all points.

Bookman1960
June 11th, 2019, 09:35
Well, I am thrilled by the video!

While I agree with much of what is being expressed here, I am also seriously hoping that this platform will fully support Oculus/VIVE technology.

I for one am an avid VR enthusiast who has been waiting for a dedicated VR-supported sim -- supported from the ground up.

So, here's hoping..

KB

TuFun
June 11th, 2019, 10:12
Little more info...

The result is something that, judging by the trailer, looks impossibly vast and real. Spencer says that 2 petabytes of geographical data is used to seamlessly stitch together Earth.
The trailer rushes past cities, swoops down so we can see elephants and giraffes hanging around and then soars the mountains for some truly incredible views.

Spencer warned the team: "You're going to have to put at the bottom that it's in-game, because nobody is going to believe that's in the game."

Microsoft apparently has some pilots on its teams—big surprise—who are fans of the series, and they've been passionate about bringing it back.


https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-wants-to-bring-back-flight-simulator-to-show-it-supports-pc/

000rick000
June 11th, 2019, 10:21
Phil.spencer head of MS gaming.

FlyingsCool
June 11th, 2019, 13:55
Well, I am thrilled by the video!

While I agree with much of what is being expressed here, I am also seriously hoping that this platform will fully support Oculus/VIVE technology.

I for one am an avid VR enthusiast who has been waiting for a dedicated VR-supported sim -- supported from the ground up.

So, here's hoping..

KB

Three years ago X-Plane was talking about full support of VR and showed some pretty neat stuff at the flight sim expo in Worcester, MA I think it was(?). Are they not there yet? I only just purchased X-Plane myself a few weeks ago, but haven't looked into its VR support (then A2A had its sale and I've been concentrating on those planes I purchased in FSX since then).

Bomber_12th
June 11th, 2019, 14:13
I'm very much interested and excited about this, based on what has been shown and backed up by the comments by Phil Spencer. As has been mentioned, at least visually (all we know at this point) it blows the socks off every other flight sim to come before, and I'd say likely visually sets itself above anything else currently in development, flight sim wise. With the fidelity and accuracy of the world depicted, I can see this appealing to a far wider audience than those who just have an interest in aviation. Having spoken to various friends and family members over the years about flight simming, who have no real interest in aviation, they have however often expressed an interest in just knowing enough to be able to use the game to explore geography, cities, historic sites, etc. Up until now, games such as FSX, P3D and X-Plane wouldn't hold the interest of individuals like those, since, at least out of the box, those sims don't have the visual accuracy, fidelity, etc. to truly convey flying over the real world and have the experience of looking down and believing what they're seeing is real (except for certain addons, and for which typically only the highest fidelity is in quite small regions, centered around airports, etc.). Based on these previews, it looks like that will be changing. If we can expect at least large regions of the world to have the same visual experience, accuracy and detail as shown in the previews, it's going to be a game changer for sure. Rather than simply using scenery as a background, or tool, as is almost solely the way that scenery has been in flight sims to-date (again, at least out of the box), if we can expect the scenery in this new sim to be what is shown in the previews, the scenery itself will be a reason to go flying, more than just the act of operating an airplane alone.

With a 5-year old system, and still running Windows 7, I supposed I shall start saving my pennies now (good to know we have a year till its release)...

Priller
June 11th, 2019, 14:26
Saving your pennies (or rather a couple of grand) is indeed the way forward.

I still remember the minimum specs for FSX. Now that was a sick joke!

But I must say that the screenshots and movies out of the new sim look great. I'm just wondering about the kind of rigs they're running it on...

Time to start saving for an extra 16 GB's of RAM and that RTX2080TI!! :biggrin-new:

Priller

vortex
June 11th, 2019, 14:57
I had no desire to support DTG which was IMO a leech on the community brain trust.

Sadly, that was the sort of comment that helped kill them off before they even got started.

Pips
June 11th, 2019, 17:24
All I can say is..... oh boy! oh boy! oh boy!

txnetcop
June 11th, 2019, 18:00
Hey ya just can't have enough flight simulators...good news! I love my XP10, FSX, P3d, and FS9 and now I will have to save my nickels and dimes to build a better unit! I guess this will be the last sim I buy...getting up there in years.
Ted

Jafo
June 11th, 2019, 19:13
I'd like to think my existing rig would handle it reasonably. When I built it 3 years ago it was the fastest/best money could buy.....pushing 10 grand AUD. Poor old Win 7 still has issues working out how to boot it.....the hardware was unknown to 7 at the time...;)

zswobbie1
June 11th, 2019, 23:41
I guarantee it will not work on XP

It's for Windows 10 (DX12 required) only.

You cannot expect a brand new sim to be optimised to work on an obsolete, unsupported operating system.

000rick000
June 11th, 2019, 23:57
Sadly, that was the sort of comment that helped kill them off before they even got started.

My opiinion is that FSW is gone because they chose to divide the community from developers. Game over. Their practices got them to where they are today. Gone. If they were so fragile that my little no one community member opinion could bring them down, then the product shouldn't have succeeded anyway. If it had been truly great. It would still be here because it would have intrinsic qualities that surpass negative criticisms. DTG should have not alienated the 3rd party devs that made the community what it is.

Anyway, MS flight looks so good that regardless of 3rd party dev SDK, I'm willing to have a go at it as a simple stand alone enjoyment, for the reasons Stated by John Terrell above. The scenery alone is breathtaking. Worth a look. Again my opinion.

wombat666
June 12th, 2019, 00:57
OK ladies.
Keep it on subject which is at least 12 months from release and has only been previewed via a video clip.
At least wait for the release before declaring a handbags at 20 paces duel.
:pirate:

Ganter
June 12th, 2019, 03:42
Yes.

...more later (too busy jumping around and whooping)

000rick000
June 12th, 2019, 06:40
OK ladies.
Keep it on subject which is at least 12 months from release and has only been previewed via a video clip.
At least wait for the release before declaring a handbags at 20 paces duel.
:pirate:

Copy all. Wilco.

stovall
June 12th, 2019, 06:52
OK ladies.
Keep it on subject which is at least 12 months from release and has only been previewed via a video clip.
At least wait for the release before declaring a handbags at 20 paces duel.
:pirate:

Thanks wombat, as we know Microsoft is a master at previews. The real substance of discussion will come once some of us have the program on our computers and XBox. I remember when FS2004 got the upgrade to FSX I was looking for a new CPU, video card etc. When I finally got a rig that would give great FPS for FSX, Prepar3D came out. Well the search for more computer power started again. Best we enjoy what we have and remember Microsoft is in business to make money.

Bjoern
June 12th, 2019, 10:31
So what will happen if this is going to be subscription based, non-local and permanently online (streaming), restrictive (requiring to be logged into a Microsoft account for usage) and very restrictive in terms of add-ons (payware from an official store only)?

DC1973
June 12th, 2019, 10:46
So what will happen if this is going to be subscription based, non-local and permanently online (streaming), restrictive (requiring to be logged into a Microsoft account for usage) and very restrictive in terms of add-ons (payware from an official store only)?There will be many tears at bedtime.That's a worse-case scenario, and I do hope that Mummy Microsoft know better than to be so restrictive, but we'll just have to wait and see when more information comes along...

000rick000
June 12th, 2019, 10:48
So what will happen if this is going to be subscription based, non-local and permanently online (streaming), restrictive (requiring to be logged into a Microsoft account for usage) and very restrictive in terms of add-ons (payware from an official store only)?

What do you mean if? My guess is.that is going to.be the way it goes. Played any XBOX games lately? |o|

vortex
June 12th, 2019, 11:07
What do you mean if? My guess is.that is going to.be the way it goes. Played any XBOX games lately? |o|

Microsoft has said that they are planning to distribute more of their games on Steam in the future so MSFS may not necessarily be a subscription title. https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/30/18645250/microsoft-xbox-game-studios-publishing-valve-steam-32-bit-windows

dvj
June 12th, 2019, 11:20
The new flight simulator is going to be powered by Microsoft's Azure cloud artificial intelligence. Think "Halo" or "Forza".

henrystreet
June 12th, 2019, 11:51
So what will happen if this is going to be subscription based, non-local and permanently online (streaming), restrictive (requiring to be logged into a Microsoft account for usage) and very restrictive in terms of add-ons (payware from an official store only)?

Or, Microsoft decides to start holding Lockheed's feet to the fire about the P3D EULA?

Priller
June 12th, 2019, 12:51
Or, Microsoft decides to start holding Lockheed's feet to the fire about the P3D EULA?

The P3D graphics engine was sold to Lockheed Martin. M$ has no say whatsoever in the matter.

Priller

FlyingsCool
June 12th, 2019, 13:08
My opiinion is that FSW is gone because they chose to divide the community from developers. Game over. Their practices got them to where they are today. Gone. If they were so fragile that my little no one community member opinion could bring them down, then the product shouldn't have succeeded anyway. If it had been truly great. It would still be here because it would have intrinsic qualities that surpass negative criticisms. DTG should have not alienated the 3rd party devs that made the community what it is.

Anyway, MS flight looks so good that regardless of 3rd party dev SDK, I'm willing to have a go at it as a simple stand alone enjoyment, for the reasons Stated by John Terrell above. The scenery alone is breathtaking. Worth a look. Again my opinion.

Hoo, boy.... Don't think you want to go there ;)

henrystreet
June 12th, 2019, 15:30
I'm getting a similar response on another forum after making a similar comment. I'm leaving mine stand to be tested by the review of future historians.

000rick000
June 12th, 2019, 15:41
I already went there. Nothing to see.

wombat666
June 12th, 2019, 23:42
I'm very much interested and excited about this, based on what has been shown and backed up by the comments by Phil Spencer. As has been mentioned, at least visually (all we know at this point) it blows the socks off every other flight sim to come before, and I'd say likely visually sets itself above anything else currently in development, flight sim wise. With the fidelity and accuracy of the world depicted, I can see this appealing to a far wider audience than those who just have an interest in aviation. Having spoken to various friends and family members over the years about flight simming, who have no real interest in aviation, they have however often expressed an interest in just knowing enough to be able to use the game to explore geography, cities, historic sites, etc. Up until now, games such as FSX, P3D and X-Plane wouldn't hold the interest of individuals like those, since, at least out of the box, those sims don't have the visual accuracy, fidelity, etc. to truly convey flying over the real world and have the experience of looking down and believing what they're seeing is real (except for certain addons, and for which typically only the highest fidelity is in quite small regions, centered around airports, etc.). Based on these previews, it looks like that will be changing. If we can expect at least large regions of the world to have the same visual experience, accuracy and detail as shown in the previews, it's going to be a game changer for sure. Rather than simply using scenery as a background, or tool, as is almost solely the way that scenery has been in flight sims to-date (again, at least out of the box), if we can expect the scenery in this new sim to be what is shown in the previews, the scenery itself will be a reason to go flying, more than just the act of operating an airplane alone.
With a 5-year old system, and still running Windows 7, I supposed I shall start saving my pennies now (good to know we have a year till its release)...

I really prefer real life to CGI John.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1186x788q90/r/922/UTprwD.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1488x569q90/r/922/m34UYx.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1488x511q90/r/924/TjRMo4.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1278x788q90/r/924/bme1i9.jpg

BendyFlyer
June 13th, 2019, 00:09
Real as it gets, nice photos Wombat.

Seriously folks - I know everyone is excited but it is going to have to be a license and on line run for this one, maybe just maybe some flight sim aircraft can be added but then again, who knows. The key issue is that is being excitedly overlooked is if they are going to give it as real as it looks then your going to need the server and memory capacity of Google to do it, to do the whole world even using Google tile processes would swamp every PC in the sim world end of story you need banks and banks of servers to do this stuff, cannot happen, nobody has that sort of stored memory capacity except MS and Google and that means a log in and play license. Otherwise you will have nothing worthwhile but again mesh, textures and object files populating it, not to mention shader capacity, focus etc etc and that I do not think is their intention. Sure it will be a reasonable sim but it will be on line by license end of story.

Still exciting though. But then again so was Google's intro but nothing much has happened there either for over two years.

vortex
June 13th, 2019, 02:57
I know everyone is excited but it is going to have to be a license and on line run for this one

Maybe. However, the new sim is only likely to appeal to a relatively small audience compared to Microsoft's other games and making it fully cloud-based will make that small audience even smaller. Google's upcoming Stadia cloud gaming service is only being rolled out in limited areas because, according to Google, it needs at least a 35Mbps broadband connection to be able to play at 4k, 60FPS (it needs at least 20 Mbps just to play at 1080p). There probably aren't that many flight sim enthusiasts who can sustain that sort of speed and that's assuming that no one else in your home is doing anything else online to use up bandwidth. Then you come up against problems with latency which, whilst not as bad for us as it would be for first-person-shooters, could still be important for approaches and landings. Whilst cloud gaming is probably the future, it's likely to be quite some time (years?) before broadband speeds become good enough globally for it to become the norm.

One possibility is that you'd run the sim from your desktop but download scenery tiles on the fly as required. We're all just shooting in the dark at the moment!

gastonj
June 13th, 2019, 06:34
Hi,
If I believe what is saying here, they may be trying to figure out what they should not do from a business point of view (lol).
JMC

TuFun
June 13th, 2019, 08:44
We put up that little tag at the beginning about satellite data and Azure AI. I don’t know if you know how that works, but we’re taking satellite map data, which is amazing, because it covers the whole planet, but it has big limitations. Parts of the planet are covered at different levels of detail. In order to make a modern flight simulator at the fidelity you need, you need accurate data. We’re using machine learning to fill in the places where we don’t know more than what the satellite data tells us. We know this is a blank spot in the middle of Nevada. Here’s what the stuff around it looks like. We know what Nevada generally looks like. Now we’ll generate that procedurally. There’s a ton of cool stuff in Flight Simulator.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/12/how-microsoft-showed-up-at-e3-locked-and-loaded-for-games-a-new-console-and-the-cloud/

000rick000
June 13th, 2019, 09:53
Actually there's quite a Vast flight simming community outside of FSX/P3D/XP. Those people are playing Il2, DCS, BMS, war Thunder to name a few. So my guess is that when playing on XBOX you'll pull in more people. My neighbor who says Xbox religiously, not an FS fan at all saw the video at E3 and said he's interested based on how good it.looks. so, the market is there...The status quo will likely be challenged.

blanston12
June 13th, 2019, 10:14
While I am skeptical about what M$ is going to do with there new sim I am also willing to wait and see and will certainly give it a try when it comes out.

As far as the failure of FSW I don't think it was because of our skeptical comments or dividing developers from community, I think it was because they knew they had to leapfrog over P3D and XP and did not have the resources to do it. I tried FSW, it had some nice features, I liked the improved ATC and updated airport database. I expect that they planned on revenue from DLC in there early access period to pay for the development and it did not work out. In developing P3D, LM has taken a conservative approach, adding solid improvements to the platform without shaking things up too much, to succeed DoveTail had to shake things up and be better than the P3D team, which was well funded and experienced with members of the original Microsoft studios team and backed by a corporation that knows a little bit about aviation. If they had created a winning sim they would have won us over, but Dovetail was just not up to the task.

Now Microsoft is another animal, they have the resources and the experience to build a solid platform and make it a radical step up. While they sold LM and DT the rights to use the program, I am sure they left themselves enough rights to the code they could still produce a sim, in fact they did with MS flight, which failed because I think because it was too much a game and not enough sim. Now with there new sim I am sure they are thinking they have to not just satisfy us old timers who in all honesty are a declining market, they have to reach out to a new generation of virtual pilots. I do hope they have learned there lesson with flight and keep the platform open enough that the amateurs will be able to get in and build things, for they will be the payware developers that take the platform forward.

000rick000
June 13th, 2019, 12:56
There's no reason that we still couldn't have 3rd party addons injected into the sim, but the question will be will there be a 3rd party pipeline...outside of DLC? Too early to speculate. Hopefully. But that would likely be for PC only. XBOX users would have no other choice....if XBOX stays with current model for gaming. If the new system offers a PC like experience....who knows! Maybe....

Bjoern
June 13th, 2019, 15:37
There will be many tears at bedtime.That's a worse-case scenario, and I do hope that Mummy Microsoft know better than to be so restrictive, but we'll just have to wait and see when more information comes along...

Remember that MS pulled the plug on the Flight Simulator series for (perceived?) lack of revenue, so I'm fairly certain that they're going to milk the cow as good as it gets.
Not sure if things have changed, but console games never really struck me as moddable, so why should MS bother to focus on that? Maybe a SDK and a bit of moddability will be provided for PC users, but if they're also providing a cross-platform multiplayer environment




What do you mean if? My guess is.that is going to.be the way it goes. Played any XBOX games lately? |o|

No, and I intend to keep it that way least I fall off the walls of my glorious PC gaming castle down into the middle of the dirty console peasantry.

(Reference: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-glorious-pc-gaming-master-race )





Or, Microsoft decides to start holding Lockheed's feet to the fire about the P3D EULA?

The ESP intellectual property was sold fair and square and belongs to LM now. No way to roll that back.

heywooood
June 13th, 2019, 21:19
so few facts - so much conjecture

zswobbie1
June 13th, 2019, 23:20
What we know, so far:

The new sim will be for PC's & the forthcoming new Xbox.
At this stage, there is much speculation, 59 pages on another forum, but, apart from a teaser video clip, nothing else has been released.

There is speculation that it will be released on Xbox Game Pass, which could mean that it may be subscription based, with scenery being streamed into the sim, as you fly.

Nothing about 3rd party add-ons being available, nor min PC specs as yet. It could very well be a 'closed' sim, with add-ons being available in-game (similar to the way FlightGear works)

So, speculation is rife & apart from that 2 minute or so video, nothing else available.

hairyspin
June 13th, 2019, 23:25
Get your popcorn here, folks! Mega buckets!!

stansdds
June 14th, 2019, 03:55
Get your popcorn here, folks! Mega buckets!!

I'll take mine with butter, thank you!

SkippyBing
June 14th, 2019, 06:12
The ESP intellectual property was sold fair and square and belongs to LM now. No way to roll that back.

Although that's true, I think the point being made is that MS could be much stricter about the 'not for entertainment' clause that is currently generously interpreted.

Ganter
June 14th, 2019, 07:11
Although that's true, I think the point being made is that MS could be much stricter about the 'not for entertainment' clause that is currently generously interpreted.

I think it's a moot point. ESP won't be involved with any luck. Brand new coding, etc.

000rick000
June 14th, 2019, 08:27
What we know, so far:

The new sim will be for PC's & the forthcoming new Xbox.
At this stage, there is much speculation, 59 pages on another forum, but, apart from a teaser video clip, nothing else has been released. -- Interviews with the Game Leads have been released.

There is speculation that it will be released on Xbox Game Pass, which could mean that it may be subscription based, with scenery being streamed into the sim, as you fly. -- IT WILL BE STREAMED. CONFIRMED by head of development - Tufun posted a link to the interview.
.


See RED text above.

Stefano Zibell
June 14th, 2019, 12:44
Launching a game on xbox has nothing to do with how much you can mod the PC version of said game. Skyrim is on both and there's a literal mountain of mods on PC. The model by which windows store apps operate do, however. That`s why I hope for a steam release.

Being part of game pass does not mean you will HAVE to subscribe. You can very well just buy the game and never ever bother with game pass. Whether it streams content or not should be irrelevant. Online services for games bought (and not subscribed) work just as well.

vortex
June 14th, 2019, 15:59
See RED text above.

zswobbie1 seems to have edited the post you quoted. Unless I've missed something in the interview that Tufun linked, there's no specific mention of streaming - he just says that they've used AI to fill in the gaps in coverage.

000rick000
June 14th, 2019, 17:40
zswobbie1 seems to have edited the post you quoted. Unless I've missed something in the interview that Tufun linked, there's no specific mention of streaming - he just says that they've used AI to fill in the gaps in coverage.

It's based on this article

https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-wants-to-bring-back-flight-simulator-to-show-it-supports-pc/


Which says:
--------------
"Flight Sim was a game in our past that sold millions and millions of units and had a very, very passionate community—in fact, they're still out there," says Spencer. There had to be a reason to resurrect the series, though. "Can we do something new with Flight Sim? Can we actually move it forward in an interesting way?"

The result is something that, judging by the trailer, looks impossibly vast and real. Spencer says that 2 petabytes of geographical data is used to seamlessly stitch together Earth. The trailer rushes past cities, swoops down so we can see elephants and giraffes hanging around and then soars the mountains for some truly incredible views.

Spencer warned the team: "You're going to have to put at the bottom that it's in-game, because nobody is going to believe that's in the game."
------------------

I figured if it's stitching together that data, it must constitute streaming...especially since MS is moving toward the cloud based games? Anyway, it doesn't mean subscription, but highly likely streamed content even if you "own" the license.

maybe "Confirmed" was too hasty....how about streaming seems highly likely? :D

Montie
June 14th, 2019, 17:55
I am sure you will be able to chose between a local install and Xcloud when that thing launches (late 2019), its an option, if you do not want install locally or want to stream to a low-end device/system.

Montie
June 14th, 2019, 18:15
Cloud gaming is a gimmick anyway, I doubt it will ever catch on. Gamers will prefer having it running of their own system due to input lag. Google Stadia currently has an input lag measured to approximately 166 ms and XCloud at approximately 67 ms. One frame equals approximately 16 ms, so XCloud is currently above four frames in input lag. Good luck landing an aircraft, racing a car or play competitively with that kind off input lag.

000rick000
June 15th, 2019, 12:54
While that would be my preference method to have it installed locally, that doesn't sound like an option. Sounds like it's too large a database to install locally...but here's hoping.

Montie
June 15th, 2019, 13:20
I think the game is installed locally, the scenery will be downloaded on the fly. Like that Google earth add on for FSX, forgot the name. But let’s see, it’s pretty exciting times.

SkippyBing
June 16th, 2019, 06:09
I think it's a moot point. ESP won't be involved with any luck. Brand new coding, etc.

But it would still be competition to the new product so MS lawyers may feel the P3D EULA should be more rigorously enforced.

TuFun
June 20th, 2019, 17:26
Excellent new from Microsoft Flight sim web page! Can't wait to see what the roadmap in August!!!

YoYo
June 21st, 2019, 04:45
From FB webpage.


Some news from Microsoft about their new simulator!
‘On behalf of the entire Microsoft Flight Simulator team, we humbly and deeply express our gratitude for such an overwhelmingly positive response to our announce trailer! We recognize that without people like you, we don’t get to make experiences like this that span more than 35 years and maintain such a passionate following. Thank you for being patient enough to weather the turbulence caused by some of our previous missteps. Thank you for being willing to look to the possibilities of the future while asking us to be accountable for the past. We hear you, we value you, we want to make the next generation of Microsoft Flight Simulator for you, with you.
While this is not the moment to answer every question being asked, we do want to take the opportunity to answer a few important ones:
We are making Microsoft Flight Simulator. Emphasis on the word SIMULATOR.
Designed for PC, optimized for multiplatform support (e.g. Xbox).
Yes. We are supporting 3rd Party Content Development and Community Content creation. We are aware of the concerns in the current eco-system and are working to address them.
Yes. We genuinely want to work closely with the community in the development of this title.
Accessibility is important to us. Whatever your abilities are, if you want to fly, we are going to do whatever we can to make that happen. Yoke and pedals, mouse and keyboard, controller, etc. No pilot should be left behind.
Over the next few months, we will be communicating our plans for the rest of the year, including important updates to the Preview Build/Insider Programs, and important development beats. Maintaining a collaborative relationship with the community starts with transparency and clearly communicated expectations. Early August is our current timeline for kicking off the communication of the development roadmap. We will continue to add clarity to this timeline throughout the summer. If you’d like the latest updates, please make sure to sign up for the Insider Program.
This is just the first step in an adventure we are honored and excited to be taking with all of you. The reaction we received from our recent trailer was an incredible reminder that we are not alone in this passion we have for Microsoft Flight Simulator. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, honestly expressing your feedback and concerns, and for taking this next step with us.
From all of us here working on Microsoft Flight Simulator:
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Microsoft Flight Simulator Team

vortex
June 21st, 2019, 09:05
Le Monde, the French newspaper, in an article about games at E3 in Los Angeles said that the new MSFS is being developed by ASOBO Studio, a French games company.

TuFun
June 21st, 2019, 13:21
Le Monde, the French newspaper, in an article about games at E3 in Los Angeles said that the new MSFS is being developed by ASOBO Studio, a French games company.


Here's one of their projects...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXwwcf8fRo

FlyingsCool
June 25th, 2019, 14:13
But it would still be competition to the new product so MS lawyers may feel the P3D EULA should be more rigorously enforced.

I really, really don't think there will be any concern here. For P3D to be a problem for Microsoft sales, people would have to know about it. No offense intended to anyone, but the flight simulation community here (not just SOH, in general) is negligibly small compared to the business they are after. Vocal, but small.

FlyingsCool
June 25th, 2019, 14:25
Here's one of their projects...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXwwcf8fRo

Cool, nice find, looks.... interesting.....

Also likely the more likely customer Microsoft will be seeing and will need to target at least to some degree.

Be that as it may, I still have great hopes that they'll keep to their word on "Simulator" and include at least the ability to add a lot more complexity a lot more easily than we can see today (flight models, systems, etc) in aircraft creation for FSX.

Bomber_12th
June 25th, 2019, 15:08
A very insightful analysis/breakdown of the trailer by Kevin Miller:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyBeRmOLnBA

Bomber_12th
June 25th, 2019, 15:35
One of the things I've been wondering about lately, is if this sim is vastly or all satellite imagery based, what is the likelihood that seasons are or aren't included?

ryanbatc
June 25th, 2019, 16:33
A very insightful analysis/breakdown of the trailer by Kevin Miller:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyBeRmOLnBA

Great link....analysis from a former FSX "ACES" team member for anyone who isn't familiar with Kevin.

Montie
June 26th, 2019, 11:07
A very insightful analysis/breakdown of the trailer by Kevin Miller:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyBeRmOLnBA

His takes on procedural textures on the aircraft at the end, that I don’t buy. More likely a mix of bump mapping with PBR. Other than that it was great.


One of the things I've been wondering about lately, is if this sim is vastly or all satellite imagery based, what is the likelihood that seasons are or aren't included?

Difficult to say, it could be done through shaders rather than textures. Which would also eliminate a texture set for all seasons and by that folder size.

downwind
June 26th, 2019, 12:50
Obviously a skilled and knowledgeable guy, but the plane that he described as "his" project had the graphic "EXPERIMENTAL" misspelled on it.:dizzy:

hairyspin
June 26th, 2019, 22:33
So Gibbage can’t spell? Wow. If I had a history like his in FS, IL2, etc etc development, I wouldn’t let that bother me one little bit.

TuFun
June 26th, 2019, 23:44
I live in a town with a population of 30,000 in Cali and didn't expect to see any great detail. Usually, I see flat maps, but I thought I would check out Google Earth flight sim and was impressed. If MFS can do this I'm sold!

This pic is my neighborhood and although there are some flat cars due to motion I suppose but some are 3d. Even can read the STOP painted on the road.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128681562_1488d0b561_o.jpg
This one is my local Air Museum and the detail of the aircraft are quite good. Only the tails have issues and the altitude was 700ft.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128680462_c176030a83_o.jpg

gray eagle
June 27th, 2019, 06:53
I live in a town with a population of 30,000 in Cali and didn't expect to see any great detail. Usually, I see flat maps, but I thought I would check out Google Earth flight sim and was impressed. If MFS can do this I'm sold!

This pic is my neighborhood and although there are some flat cars due to motion I suppose but some are 3d. Even can read the STOP painted on the road.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128681562_1488d0b561_o.jpg
This one is my local Air Museum and the detail of the aircraft are quite good. Only the tails have issues and the altitude was 700ft.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128680462_c176030a83_o.jpg

That looks to be Castle AFB museum- Former SAC Base (Decommed Brac '95)
Nice collection of Aircraft. Were you stationed there?
Sad to see former base buildings in disrepair.
https://www.castleairmuseum.org/


(https://www.airplanemuseums.com/castle-air-museum.htm)

hairyspin
June 27th, 2019, 11:17
That looks to be Castle AFB museum- Former SAC Base (Decommed Brac '95)
Nice collection of Aircraft.

Some very interesting aircraft in that place, but best of all, if I got the chance to visit, is an Avro Vulcan! :jump:

TuFun
June 27th, 2019, 13:42
The B-47 was restored to flying status when I was stationed at Castle AFB. We did the restoration of the ejections seats in our shop (EGRESS). We also did the work on the D model B-52 system. Some of the parts from the Vulcan were also used I guess for the one that use to fly.

The large building was the military hospital, but currently a civilian hospital my family goes to.

Purpose of the drag chute was to keep the jet engines to maintain high power setting in the event of a go-around.

https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2012/06/Boeing-B-47E-25-DT-Stratojet-52-166-DouglasTulsa-built-last-B-47-flight-landing-Castle-AFB-17-June-1986.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/claiaa/posts/717113534993703

b52bob
June 28th, 2019, 06:47
Yes, sad to see the disrepair that has happened. Sad to see acres of empty concrete which used to be filled with bombers and tankers. Some lost memories there.

the museum is well worth a visit, just be sure you bring mosquito repellent!

FlyingsCool
June 28th, 2019, 11:04
Excellent new from Microsoft Flight sim web page! Can't wait to see what the roadmap in August!!!

By definition of the EULA, there is no competition. Microsoft did not create the terms of the sale lightly. They clearly left the door open for this to happen.

MZee1960
June 29th, 2019, 18:45
This just in from someone well respected in the flight sim community.

https://youtu.be/HbTSy409BjY

TuFun
June 29th, 2019, 19:32
After seeing that I'm sold on MFS 2020! Forget about the rest!:biggrin-new:

vortex
July 2nd, 2019, 10:03
This just in from someone well respected in the flight sim community.

https://youtu.be/HbTSy409BjY

It's his second shot. He pulled the first one because it got so much criticism. Not sure why he's taking such a negative view of what could, potentially, be such a game-changing product.

Montie
July 2nd, 2019, 13:15
It's his second shot. He pulled the first one because it got so much criticism. Not sure why he's taking such a negative view of what could, potentially, be such a game-changing product.

Maybe some business investment into a current platform, otherwise his negative attitude does not make sense.

Also he says FSX Acc was a paid patch/fixes for the main game, completely ignoring SP1 and SP2 which were the patches/fixes and they were free. The whole video has a negative spin to smudge MS and their efforts. Clearly he favors X-Plane.

TuFun
July 2nd, 2019, 15:01
This got thinking about the Xbox side of flight simulation and maybe the reason MS want this new MSFS. US military are sure insterested!
Can you imagine a MS Combat flight sim using next gen flight sim!

Ace Combat 7 is part of the Ace Combat series of flight arcade action games. The game was released earlier this year for Xbox One and PlayStation.


"Discover the glory of being an elite fighter pilot. Become an Ace pilot by taking down enemies through tactical dogfighting while experiencing the exhilaration of flying freely in a fully immersive world," the game's PlayStation description states.


The game allows a player to select and customize his or her aircraft. Choices include a range of single and twin-engine jets, plus fifth-generation fighters such as the F-22 Raptor (http://www.military.com/equipment/f-22-raptor), F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (http://www.military.com/topics/joint-strike-fighter), and the YF-23, which never made it into production.


Players can also choose, or "unlock" various weapons to use in battle.


The event should last 30 to 45 minutes, and will be livestreamed on Twitch.tv at www.twitch.tv/ACCplays (http://www.twitch.tv/ACCplays?fbclid=IwAR27D76OsfiW2KGT2zKHSyM8AMXxByBd qiP9PKldijL5_eb9vGHlcG9hHk0), on June 29 at 1 p.m. EST, according to the command. While the audience can't play along, a moderator will collect the questions as viewers watch them play on Xbox One.


Air Combat Command said the event is intended to engage the 18-to-35 demographic.


"Based on our research, a large portion of individuals in this age group either play video games are aware of, or have seen someone stream a video game on Twitch," ACC said. "This platform provides a new tool for us to engage and have discussions on key ACC priorities. The interview format during the game is very informal and casual."


The event comes as the Air Force looks for new ways to elevate interest in pilot training. That includes the service's new experimental program, Pilot Training Next -- a program based in Austin, Texas, that tests whether pilots can learn faster to expedite the training pipeline.


Outgoing Air Education and Training Command Commander Lt. Gen. Steven Kwast recently told Military.com the service sees value in finding prospective recruits in virtual-gaming communities (https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/05/25/heres-how-air-force-plans-recruit-teenage-gamers.html).


"We can start recruiting excellence," Kwast said.


[B]Holmes additionally said ACC is starting to look at using more virtual reality and simulation training.


Using the low-cost immersive environment of virtual reality together with "competency-based learning," and moving graduate-level skill testing earlier into the training model, "would experience our pilots much faster," Holmes said during a May interview.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/27/air-force-commander-pilot-son-dogfight-livestreamed-flight-game.html?ESRC=airforce_190702.nl

TuFun
July 4th, 2019, 02:18
Saw this posted elsewhere and it amazing tech possible for MSFS. 400+ cities in the data base!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yroVd-nPkXk&feature=youtu.be

TuFun
July 11th, 2019, 18:43
As the team enters the dog days of summer, we’ve been hard at work putting the finishing touches on many of the big updates we’re planning to share toward the end of summer. Our excitement continues to build, as does our impatience to share this information with you. So we press forward counting down the days until we can open the hangar doors and dive into the details with you.


There are many very important topics being discussed in the community (e.g. New Flight Model/IFR-VFR Flight/Weather Simulation Depth/VR Support, etc.). The team is constantly monitoring the feedback/suggestions being discussed and please know that many of these topics and more, will be covered thoroughly in near future updates.


In the meantime, here’s a work-in-progress screenshot, and confirmation that the Insider Program will be starting in early August as part of our development roadmap kickoff.


On July 25th, we will be releasing another update on our plans for August and September. Until next time, know that the team is excited and anxious to share more information with you.


Sincerely,

The Microsoft Flight Simulator Team

https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/CockpitDR400_3.png

Ganter
July 12th, 2019, 00:00
Wow!

That looks like the Robin we saw in the trailer video.

A DR400 maybe. Anyway, it looks fantastic.

TuFun
July 12th, 2019, 00:14
Wow!

That looks like the Robin we saw in the trailer video.

A DR400 maybe. Anyway, it looks fantastic.

Looks like your right, the file name is...

https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/CockpitDR400_3.png (https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/CockpitDR400_3.png)

IanHenry
July 12th, 2019, 07:34
I wonder what computer specs we will need to run this?



Ian

Ganter
July 12th, 2019, 08:13
I wonder what computer specs we will need to run this?



Ian

There's been a hefty amount of 'discussion' if one can call it that (by the way it's moderated) - over on another forum.

I really believe it's a wait and see - after all, we could be pleasantly surprised what with optimised code, etc.

MS should publish minimum specs and preferred specs soon enough.

My rig is pretty new so I'm definitely waiting and not rushing out to purchase a load of new components just because it looks like it might need a Cray to run.

greenie
July 13th, 2019, 05:29
I don't want be controversial here but.... I'm having a very close look at that VC instrument panel and I think it's a real life photo. Looking closely at the screw heads and 'patiner" . If I am mistaken then this is "as real as it gets " !

bazzar
July 13th, 2019, 05:50
No, not a photograph. With careful modeling and the use of the new tech, more powerful paint software such as Substance Painter, it is more than possible to achieve very realistic effects like this. What it comes down to is just how and how well the simulator engine can render the results. P3D, sadly, still has a way to go with its rendering of PBR. The new one from MS looks to be using a far more advanced engine using far more of the available channels. Selectable depth of field is possible on quite a few modern computer games.

One clue, if you look closely at the knobs in the pic, you will see identical lighting and effects, a sure sign of cloned geometry. :engel016:

gman5250
July 13th, 2019, 12:33
I particularly like the depth of the gauges. Glass, then indicators and needles above the painted gauge faces. Intensive modeling and PBR, real world light rendering. Ray tracing will add another layer, but all of this comes at price when considering systems/hardware. That's all fine and the ability to choose a platform to suit one's needs is a luxury we never had before.

After watching the video, most of my questions were answered. The Unity engine is the heart and soul with 3D modeling covering a significant number of large cities. The trailer is tantalizing, but I'll need to see the sim in real time to make an intelligent evaluation. Overall I am anticipating a large part of the globe very much like some form of photoreal, possibly with autogen vegetation? Will stay tuned.......

Mako8841
July 13th, 2019, 14:58
After over 37 years with MSFS, this is almost too good to be true. Been waiting since 2006 for an upgrade. And WOW! Look at MSFS now. Makes any other flight sim look like a toy. I hope addons, and Flight Sim companies can offer sceneries, and aircraft like they've done for FSX. And I hope my rig can handle the new game. I'm getting old, I hope they don't drag their feet. I really can't wait! Hope also the price is right too... Well, we'll see... Thanks Microsoft!

greenie
July 13th, 2019, 15:24
No, not a photograph. With careful modeling and the use of the new tech, more powerful paint software such as Substance Painter, it is more than possible to achieve very realistic effects like this. What it comes down to is just how and how well the simulator engine can render the results. P3D, sadly, still has a way to go with its rendering of PBR. The new one from MS looks to be using a far more advanced engine using far more of the available channels. Selectable depth of field is possible on quite a few modern computer games. One clue, if you look closely at the knobs in the pic, you will see identical lighting and effects, a sure sign of cloned geometry. :engel016: Well, in that case - it's amazing !! - thanks

YoYo
July 13th, 2019, 23:08
It looks also that the new sim will use ray tracing (RTX GPU) so here is the reason too why the VC looks soo good ;D. Cant wait simply!

TuFun
July 13th, 2019, 23:48
It gives me an excuse to buy an RTX card end of next year or earlier! :adoration:

YoYo
July 14th, 2019, 00:03
It gives me an excuse to buy an RTX card end of next year or earlier! :adoration:

It will be nice if the new FS20 will use DLSS antyaliasing technique ( https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dlss-upscaling-nvidia-rtx,5870.html ) what is have influence for performance.
I used it in Metro Exodus and the first time I leaved it (blurry effect) but after few patches near no any differences and it was an big boost for FPS.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc3/3dmark_port_royal_nvidia_dlss_geforce_rtx_performa nce_results_4.png

Ganter
July 14th, 2019, 03:51
I particularly like the depth of the gauges. Glass, then indicators and needles above the painted gauge faces. Intensive modeling and PBR, real world light rendering. Ray tracing will add another layer, but all of this comes at price when considering systems/hardware. That's all fine and the ability to choose a platform to suit one's needs is a luxury we never had before.

After watching the video, most of my questions were answered. The Unity engine is the heart and soul with 3D modeling covering a significant number of large cities. The trailer is tantalizing, but I'll need to see the sim in real time to make an intelligent evaluation. Overall I am anticipating a large part of the globe very much like some form of photoreal, possibly with autogen vegetation? Will stay tuned.......

gman - If it is Unity Engine - I keep seeing here and there that Track IR isn't supported by Unity - or is it Unreal Engine (RTX) - I'm not sure which.
That would be a major upset for me as I don't think I could fly without it - got so used to it.
Do you know for definite either way?

greenie
July 14th, 2019, 03:55
Does this mean we will NOT see Ray-Tracing if our card is NOT a RTX ? I just had a look at the price of the RTX 2080 TI ...woow ... things are getting serious !

jeansy
July 14th, 2019, 04:16
Does this mean we will NOT see Ray-Tracing if our card is NOT a RTX ? I just had a look at the price of the RTX 2080 TI ...woow ... things are getting serious !

My understanding yes RT is only available with the 2000 series of GTX cards

But no point get bent out shape yet, no one knows what the end product will be or require, there will be enough time between now and then for hardware to drop in prices

If this is the so called silver bullet everyone is counting on, its like anything, sit back and wait a few years for the so called 3rd party developers to start releasing addon if it does have an open SDK, that will give you a few yrs to save up and get new hardware opposed to jumping staright in with your wallet only to find its juiced up version of ms flight

So far everything is based on speculation and tiny snippets of infomation.

You have plenty of time

Ganter
July 14th, 2019, 04:17
I don't want be controversial here but.... I'm having a very close look at that VC instrument panel and I think it's a real life photo. Looking closely at the screw heads and 'patiner" . If I am mistaken then this is "as real as it gets " !


Go in really tight and you can see it's modelled.
I really like the detail - like each screw head is in a slightly different position

https://i.postimg.cc/gJwhZ045/fkdshks.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

gman5250
July 14th, 2019, 06:16
gman - If it is Unity Engine - I keep seeing here and there that Track IR isn't supported by Unity - or is it Unreal Engine (RTX) - I'm not sure which.
That would be a major upset for me as I don't think I could fly without it - got so used to it.
Do you know for definite either way?

It is Unity, and I am not sure about TrackIR support. I would imagine that this issue would be dealt with somewhere in the process though. I'm with you though, I fly TrackIR 99% of the time but blend it with ChasePlane cameras/head tracking enabled. Great for video.

vortex
July 14th, 2019, 06:49
My understanding yes RT is only available with the 2000 series of GTX cards

It's also available for the 1000 series cards with the latest drivers. However, it's a software implementation and is painfully slow.


It is Unity, and I am not sure about TrackIR support.

Are you saying that the new MSFS is going to be Unity-based or just that Unity doesn't support TrackIR? If the former, how do you know this?

TuFun
July 14th, 2019, 06:49
There was support for Tracker IR for Unity 64bit so there shouldn't be a problem for MS or Unity to update the .dll.
I'm sure this will be answered once the beta is open and or MSFS forum.

Reference:

https://unitylist.com/p/5yk/Unity-Track-IR-Plugin-DLL

gman5250
July 14th, 2019, 07:23
It's also available for the 1000 series cards with the latest drivers. However, it's a software implementation and is painfully slow....Are you saying that the new MSFS is going to be Unity-based or just that Unity doesn't support TrackIR? If the former, how do you know this?

Great to see that I can test drive raytracing with my existing card. Not ready to take the plunge into RTX cards until second or third generation. BTW, I did that latest driver update with the RT feature. Nothing blew up...that's always a plus. :encouragement:

Yeah, I got the Unity information from the video interview posted above. Also a few other bits that made me a bit apprehensive i.e. inviting Azure AI into the right seat. My last tech experience with MS didn't work out too well.

YoYo
July 14th, 2019, 09:00
It gives me an excuse to buy an RTX card end of next year or earlier! :adoration:

Wait for the next year, NVidia will have the new GPU (better than RTX2080Ti) or wait for better price when new RTX will come ;) .


It is Unity, and I am not sure about TrackIR support...

I hope it will support, Track IR = VR also and its the necessity.

Ganter
July 14th, 2019, 14:49
It is Unity, and I am not sure about TrackIR support. I would imagine that this issue would be dealt with somewhere in the process though. I'm with you though, I fly TrackIR 99% of the time but blend it with ChasePlane cameras/head tracking enabled. Great for video.

Thanks Gman, good to know we're all watching developments.
I've really got in to your PBR discussions - reckon this is prime territory for you coming up and looking forward to flying in your Created Spaces!
Also, so glad you've been able to largely put the terrible HDD loss behind you without too much pain.
Nice one man. Peace.

gman5250
July 14th, 2019, 15:08
Thanks Gman, good to know we're all watching developments.
I've really got in to your PBR discussions

I definitely have been putting all of my energy into learning the PBR workflow. Anything that will support direct PBR integration including metalness, normal and height mapping, gloss, AO etc. directly into the working models has my vote.

Ganter
July 14th, 2019, 15:33
I definitely have been putting all of my energy into learning the PBR workflow. Anything that will support direct PBR integration including metalness, normal and height mapping, gloss, AO etc. directly into the working models has my vote.


Nice one. It's like MS has caught up with you - not the other way round.

Big respect. :wavey:

vortex
July 16th, 2019, 12:52
Yeah, I got the Unity information from the video interview posted above.

If you're referring to the interview in post #152, I can't see where they mention MSFS in the video - it's just about new modelling tools for Unity for use with Windows Mixed Reality (unless I missed an important part).

gman5250
July 16th, 2019, 14:20
If you're referring to the interview in post #152, I can't see where they mention MSFS in the video - it's just about new modelling tools for Unity for use with Windows Mixed Reality (unless I missed an important part).

After I listened to the interview in post #152 I added up 2+2, drawing from what I have seen and read in their press releases and see in the trailer vid. I would expect that if MS is exploring VR global mapping and building a revolutionary simulation platform, they would integrate the two. That plus what I have learned over the last number of years about scenery development and trying to fathom the massive MSFS data reservoir...my take away is MS is going to take Unity across multiple platforms. Other engines like Unreal approach VR in a different modality.

000rick000
July 16th, 2019, 14:40
Right on Gordon. I believe I mentioned Ray tracing in one of the other threads on SOH and was met with skepticism. Same thing happened with PBR coming to P3D when I mentioned that. I think we as an FS community need to come to grips with the emerging and in some cases (PBR) older tech that is standard in most other gaming. Devs need to learn the new work flows. Our whole hobby will be better off for it!

It's pretty obvious that Ray Tracing will be in MSFS 2020. A year is a long time to integrate VR.

bazzar
July 17th, 2019, 00:26
Actually, devs don't need to learn anything. If they don't want to. Until the manufacturers declare their true position with regard to developers' building and selling add-ons, especially as a commercially viable process, no developer in their right mind is going to spend any amount of time "learning" anything.

We do not know enough to start making any kind of prediction. If MS want to go the factory-controlled content route, they will. That may not suit a lot of developers. And I wonder how many "freeware" developers are going to legitimately spring for the software required to produce high-end material let alone the hardware required to drive it?:engel016:

mike_cyul
July 17th, 2019, 05:42
Actually, devs don't need to learn anything. If they don't want to. Until the manufacturers declare their true position with regard to developers' building and selling add-ons, especially as a commercially viable process, no developer in their right mind is going to spend any amount of time "learning" anything.

We do not know enough to start making any kind of prediction. If MS want to go the factory-controlled content route, they will. That may not suit a lot of developers. And I wonder how many "freeware" developers are going to legitimately spring for the software required to produce high-end material let alone the hardware required to drive it?:engel016:


I'll second that. :)

centuryseries
July 17th, 2019, 13:02
I third that.

Too early to say. Perhaps when the FSInsider or whatever it's called springs into life in August we may find out.

TuFun
July 17th, 2019, 13:53
I thought this might be interesting since Asobo and other developers maybe be involved MSFS.


Of course, creating any open world comes with challenges that developers have to address, especially when players are moving through that world at breakneck speeds. Building the streaming technology to handle a massive world where the environments just fly by required the team to pay special attention to how objects were rendered in both the distance and near the player through a number of tools and graphics engine considerations.


Gamasutra recently sat down with David Guillaume and Carl Pedimina of Ivory Tower to dig the technical aspects of creating an online world that is both massive and detailed. The full Q&A below explores lessons learned by the team during development, ranging from how and why devs zoned environments into areas and sectors to lighten the computational load to tips on how fellow game developers can address the issues that creep up during development of their own open world games.

The core of this feature will be around what kind of technology you use to stream your world. How did you design it? How does it work?
Pedimina: In the very beginning of the project, we tried to look at middleware like the Unreal Engine. It quickly appeared that this kind of game engine would not do. Our world is huge (approximately 120 km by 75 km) with a lot of different places and moods. Furthermore, the player can drive vehicles that can go over 600 km/h!


However, we did not want to reinvent the wheel. So we decided to take the basis of the Dunia Engine (used at Ubisoft for the Far Cry series) and revamp it to our needs. Eventually, we rewrote a lot of things like the world editor, the game editor, the world management, the streaming strategy, the graphics engine… and we used only 10-15 percent of the original engine but it allowed us to quickly prototype and build our own engine by providing solid foundations.

I think this is the most important statement he says...

All in all, I think the most important point is the tools: managing a big map can be very tedious and hard to tackle. Computers are here to do automatic tasks, so build as many tools as possible to help you out: checkers, automated processes… There are so many challenges in game dev, so every bit of help is welcome!

Source: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/325889/QA_Inside_the_tools_and_techniques_used_to_build_T he_Crew_2s_open_world.php

Map tool shown here and using Blender.

https://zenhax.com/viewtopic.php?t=8879

000rick000
July 18th, 2019, 10:13
Actually, devs don't need to learn anything. If they don't want to. Until the manufacturers declare their true position with regard to developers' building and selling add-ons, especially as a commercially viable process, no developer in their right mind is going to spend any amount of time "learning" anything.

We do not know enough to start making any kind of prediction. If MS want to go the factory-controlled content route, they will. That may not suit a lot of developers. And I wonder how many "freeware" developers are going to legitimately spring for the software required to produce high-end material let alone the hardware required to drive it?:engel016:

Yeah you devs can and will do what you want. But honestly I don't care if freeware guys don't spring for the tools. We're entering a stage of gaming/simming that in order to really create content that passes muster of the visual realm in which it's placed will require more effort than has been required in the past. So if this means that attrition occurs, from my POV, so be it. Natural selection of the industry. Those that will survive will. Those who choose not to, won't. I'm not worried. My point is really, that the evolution of this sim is coming - whether it be with this new MSFS title or with v5+ of P3D -- and we should all be ready, as it's highly likely that the status quo will be challenged.

bazzar
July 18th, 2019, 14:50
That has to be one of the most "head in the sand"comments I've read in this forum. You need to quit stating the blindingly obvious and like all of us, wait. Do you really think commercial developers haven't thought about what's coming? You talk about attrition... hah! Just how many commercial developers do you think there are in this hobby? And just where do you think you are going to acquire new add-ons if freeware people stop because they can no longer afford to support you? Oh yes, that's right...you don't care apparently.:engel016:

Ganter
July 18th, 2019, 15:58
Yeah you devs can and will do what you want. But honestly I don't care if freeware guys don't spring for the tools. We're entering a stage of gaming/simming that in order to really create content that passes muster of the visual realm in which it's placed will require more effort than has been required in the past. So if this means that attrition occurs, from my POV, so be it. Natural selection of the industry. Those that will survive will. Those who choose not to, won't. I'm not worried. My point is really, that the evolution of this sim is coming - whether it be with this new MSFS title or with v5+ of P3D -- and we should all be ready, as it's highly likely that the status quo will be challenged.

Yep, I'll go along with that.

Change is coming.
Man and dog on hillside looking East -
"See those storm clouds boy?"
"Woof"
"They're a' comin' this way"
"Woof"
"We scared?"
"Nope."
"I didn't know you could talk"
"You didn't ask..."

Big Devs going down - 'bout time. :very_drunk:

bazzar
July 18th, 2019, 16:10
Thanks for the adult response. Perhaps you would you give us all an idea of who you think is a "Big Dev"and why they would be "going down?"

000rick000
July 18th, 2019, 18:45
That has to be one of the most "head in the sand"comments I've read in this forum. You need to quit stating the blindingly obvious and like all of us, wait. Do you really think commercial developers haven't thought about what's coming? You talk about attrition... hah! Just how many commercial developers do you think there are in this hobby? And just where do you think you are going to acquire new add-ons if freeware people stop because they can no longer afford to support you? Oh yes, that's right...you don't care apparently.:engel016:

What's funny is that, when I originally mentioned PBR coming to P3D, you were one of those.that that opposed the post. Head in the sand??! Ha! You made me chuckle. Back to reality. You're one of many many developers out there. In fact, I think there are more active payware developers than I've ever seen in this hobby, right now.

Where are we going to get our addons? From those that arise in the vaccum. It's free market econ man. Honestly I haven't touched a freeware product in about 3 years. I'm not saying they should leave, I'm saying that if they stay it will be the ones who advance their craft.

State the obvious. I mentioned Ray tracing and was jumped on. I think you were part of that too? By the way all your PBR FB posts look great. Isn't it great that we can now enjoy that level of detail in our hobby?
Captain obvious signing off.

bazzar
July 18th, 2019, 19:45
You've missed the point. Nobody has ever denied that all this is possible for the hobby. What we are saying is just wait and see what transpires and stop badgering others into spending time and cash on chasing theory.

It is simply not sensible for any developer to spend money (yes it will cost) and valuable time attempting to second -guess what people like Microsoft have in store. To create new assets for a new simulator platform with the kind of technology you are guessing might be there will not be cheap. Software costs alone are spiralling upward. We are talking thousands of dollars a year before we can even start work. The hardware to drive such technology will also be out of the reach of many. Of course we, like many developers, adapt and adopt. We have been doing just that for 20 years. But will people want to pay for all of this "evolution"?

I seriously doubt it. They have problems paying for thousands of hours of work that goes into what we have now. So, what are we going to see? $150 add-ons?

Historically, people don't like paying for DLC either. Yet, it is highly likely that the new sim will be subscription-based with add-ons only available via download and through a factory-governed store, on-line.

More than any of the above, however, and what gets my goat is the toxic attitudes out there that actively appear to want developers to fail. Why? No developer, in my experience, has ever made anybody buy anything. If you don't like what you see don't buy it. Simple. So, are the devs doing people any harm? No. What they do is support and assist in growing the hobby - many for no recompense. So why the "celebration" that many will fall?

And as for "Big devs", I haven't heard such nonsense in years. Most developer businesses are groups of less than 10 and often as few as 2 people. Sales in a good year, for most, might measure in the hundreds -certainly not thousands.

So, for those who want to see these people fail , carry on, because the sad irony is that it is this same attitude that will kill the very hobby they appear to enjoy.

The logic eludes me.:engel016:

hairyspin
July 18th, 2019, 23:00
Wow. Nobody knows for a fact yet what game engine is to be used, what tools the sdk will need and whether the new sim will be generally open to third-party development, but we’re already bickering over what developers “must” do. Microsoft haven’t told anyone yet!

Popcorn, get your popcorn here!

stansdds
July 19th, 2019, 04:51
Until I see it released, I consider it vaporware. Everyone is getting their panties wadded up over speculation.

gman5250
July 19th, 2019, 09:01
I don't really have a dog in the fight, and I probably will not give this new sim too much attention other than to observe the implementations of technology MS chooses to use. My money is on Unity, but I've been wrong in the past.

That said, I think that any developer or casual tinkerer who invests a modicum of time and energy into the known advancements i.e. PBR will benefit. I did explore some various technologies like Unreal, but realized that their applications in large scale VR were going to be unlikely...at least until such time as we all have quantum computers dangling from our studio ceilings. That particular foray left me in need of a complete re-install of 3D Studio, due to the residual bits of code left by a highly proprietary architecture. The opportunity to re-install Studio conveniently became a reality when the necessity arose that I build the new system.

Taking into consideration the "known knowns", we can anticipate what will most likely come down the pike, whether it be from Microsoft or Lockheed Martin. Both are tight lipped, so the above comments all have merit. We know that Physically Based Rendering is here to stay based on what we have in hand in P3D and can be surmised from a deep look into the MS trailer. Where there is PBR, there will inevitably be a demand for ray tracing. We know where we are with NVIDIA on ray tracing.

If you are a professional developer or casual user you will probably mull over the cost benefit of investing your time into learning PBR. This particular corner of the development process can be done without significant investment via GMAX/gimp and a modest investment in a Quixel license. That investment is less than I spend on coffee in a week, and I don't drink a ton of coffee. Learning the skills in advance of full PBR integration will definitely benefit everyone, and hopefully we will arrive at a place where, having done all of the interior and exterior skinning in 3D virtual space, those assets can plug directly into a simulator without need of "translating" the art. Admittedly, we are not there yet but to quote Dylan, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows". I'm banking on the probability that we will have two fully loaded PBR, full global spectrum simulation platforms next year. If not, I'm not out anything because I can still use PBR quite effectively in what I do have in hand now. As far as ray tracing goes, I'm learning particle physics just because I enjoy pain and abuse. If I never use those skills...it won't matter in fifty years.

Certainly, I don't think anyone on this forum would actually celebrate the loss of any developer, regardless of their pay grade. I certainly mourn the loss of Real Air or any other who may not survive the economic hardships inherent in our commitment ot our passion. We don't do it for the money, even the mega companies who do make a reasonable living are struggling, much like a bodybuilder, with the need to constantly maintain their gains. As the two major flight platform designers go about their secret business, the mere mortals in this industry will consult their crystal balls regularly in an effort to remain relevant or mildly profitable.

I'm out of the development curve now due to my mishap, but will fulfill my commitments to complete at least four projects I had begun pre-crash. If I choose to go strictly PBR, I'll most likely get fragged for leaving FSX behind. In my case it is a cost benefit analysis to the end user, not me. IMO, MS will leave FSX to wither on the vine when they drop support for Win7 and commit fully to the new sim/marketing venture, which will probably be subscription based. I arrive at that conclusion based on what I observe in the industry with Autodesk, Adobe and virtually every other software developer dropping support of physical media in favor of the cloud. The subscription aspect is not a problem for me because that's what I do now with P3D...at least until such time as LM produces a full PBR engine...or better. As I have a personal beef with MS, I most likely will not become involved with the new sim for personal reasons.

One reason I love this forum, and its members...it is a venue where gentlemen and gentlewomen can engage in discourse that leaves the external world outside. We respect each others knowledge, skills and opinions and attempt to extend that respect to one another. Rick made some good points as well as Baz. Bottom line is we are all in the dark until such time as we can actually "kick the tires". I'll throw in my two bits here and there but, quite frankly, I'm spending most of my time restoring 60 year old redwood and improving my house, so I can't really render any in depth analysis of anything for the next few months. That said, I do spend five to six hours in the early AM tinkering about with mesh and code, so I'll be following these conversations and the intermittent updates on the new sim as time moves on. I'll make my course adjustments along the way, as I'm sure everyone else will do as well.

IMHO...as always.

PilatusTurbo
July 19th, 2019, 10:00
Looks amazing. I'm just concerned they'll follow their older ways; it won't run smooth until PCs of 2030 are here with liquid nitrogen cooling. 🤣

wombat666
July 19th, 2019, 10:27
It's Microsoft.
Big on promises and short on results.
At this point in time nothing is certain and everyone who is NOT aware of the pitfalls in developing FS projects is fantasizing.
Settle down ladies.
:173go1:

PilatusTurbo
July 19th, 2019, 14:15
It's Microsoft.
Big on promises and short on results.
At this point in time nothing is certain and everyone who is NOT aware of the pitfalls in developing FS projects is fantasizing.
Settle down ladies.
:173go1:

Exactly my sentiments :bump:

DC1973
July 20th, 2019, 01:09
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a new menu option that allows us to get sucked, Tron-style, into the game in order to dogfight bad guys within a fully immersive world where time means nothing and all beer is free, along with a brand-spanking new F-18E with my name on it. Nobody can be absolutely sure that option won't be there.

bazzar
July 20th, 2019, 01:46
Free beer, now that's a worthwhile improvement. I'm in.:engel016:

gman5250
July 20th, 2019, 02:24
I'm down with the beer as well. Where do I sign up? :very_drunk::very_drunk:

stansdds
July 20th, 2019, 07:00
There's free beer? Where???? :very_drunk:

wombat666
July 20th, 2019, 08:05
Only if it's XXXX.
:pirate:

magoo
July 20th, 2019, 08:30
Beer.

Not only a beverage, but it can be a meal as well.

Now you've got my attention.

:ernaehrung004:

Bjoern
July 20th, 2019, 10:27
Welcome to Flightsim Alcoholics Anonymous (FAA).

hairyspin
July 20th, 2019, 11:32
Might come in handy to wash down the popcorn! Hic. :very_drunk:

heywooood
July 20th, 2019, 21:37
there's the things that never change though you wish they would..and then there's the things you'd like to have remain the same for as long as possible - yet away they go in twice the hurry.

and here y'all are whangin' away at each other over something no one knows a damn thing about.

everyone wanted a better FSX since it was released - this might be that and it might not. Right now it's just mystery meat. Period.

"fear is the mind killer"

stansdds
July 21st, 2019, 05:34
Welcome to Flightsim Alcoholics Anonymous (FAA).

So that's what "FAA" really stands for! :biggrin-new: :biggrin-new: :biggrin-new:

TuFun
July 21st, 2019, 21:50
FUI... some of u r!

https://i.iheart.com/v3/url/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY29hc3R0b2NvYXN0YW0uY29tL2NpbWFnZX MvdmFyL2V6d2ViaW5fc2l0ZS9zdG9yYWdlL2ltYWdlcy9jb2Fz dC10by1jb2FzdC9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L3RodW1ibmFpbHMvYnVkLW xpZ2h0LWFyZWEtNTEvMTExOTQ1MC0xLWVuZy1VUy9CdWQtTGln aHQtQXJlYS01MS5qcGc=?ops=scale(728,0)

stansdds
July 22nd, 2019, 02:41
FUI... some of u r!

https://i.iheart.com/v3/url/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY29hc3R0b2NvYXN0YW0uY29tL2NpbWFnZX MvdmFyL2V6d2ViaW5fc2l0ZS9zdG9yYWdlL2ltYWdlcy9jb2Fz dC10by1jb2FzdC9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L3RodW1ibmFpbHMvYnVkLW xpZ2h0LWFyZWEtNTEvMTExOTQ1MC0xLWVuZy1VUy9CdWQtTGln aHQtQXJlYS01MS5qcGc=?ops=scale(728,0)

A little disappointing that the aliens don't have better tastes in beverages. :playful:

heywooood
July 22nd, 2019, 14:51
lol - Remember the Cant !

TuFun
July 25th, 2019, 15:06
https://fsi.microsoftstudios.com/

“Update to an update about an update” – AVSIM member post

Heading into the last week of July the team is excitedly awaiting the arrival of August. There are a number of big updates planned for August and September starting with the V1 release of the Development Roadmap.
Within the next few weeks we’ll be providing the official release date for the Development Roadmap, in the meantime, we’d like to share a few of the deliverables from this plan:


August (Early/Mid) – Insider Program kickoff

First batch of content for the Insider Program members is being prepared for delivery:

Advanced preview of the Development Roadmap
“In-Sim” content – clips captured from build.
Preview Build Program – Detailed information on first build deliverable, Insider participation sign-up







August (Mid/Late) – Development Roadmap Release (v.2019.08/drr1)

Development beats through EOY 2019

Build Program Recruitment and Release timeline
SDK Update
3rd Party Content Update
UGC Content Update







August (Late) – Build Program Kickoff

Preview Build Program – Detailed information on first preview build deliverable
Preview Build Program – Public Participation sign-up
Preview Build Program – Preview of next build details



“What we want” – AVSIM Thread
There are two important plans we will be sharing with you in September:


The pipeline for how we will provide an in-depth look at the product we are building.
The process for how we will integrate the community into this process to facilitate a collaborative partnership to bring this product to launch.

Threads like this on AVSIM, and across all the forums we pay close attention to, are truly valued by the team. So though we may not be directly interacting with you at the moment, we hear you. August is about setting expectations, providing a clear Development Roadmap outlining how we get from today to launch. September is about how we accomplish that task, together.

“Early August for Insider… Hope I get in.” – Reddit User r/flightsim
MSFS – You’re in. In August we’ll kick-off the Insider Program. Insiders will be able to login to the site and be given access to the Insider area, and not just redirected to the FAQ, as per current.

“I want to pay for it in unmarked, non-sequential, low denomination bills, placed in three black plastic bin bags, left on the third floor of an abandoned multi-story car park, at midnight.” – AVSIM User
MSFS – Done. Once you make the drop, head south 3 kilometers. Locate a metal trash bin, retrieve mobile phone at bottom of bin. At 1:06AM text “no subscription”. Await further instruction.

“Microsoft don’t read AVSIM or any other forums, they read their own gaming forums and insiders community forums, it is standard company policy.” – AVSIM User
MSFT – Well this is awkward…

Finally, the team would like to take a moment to call attention to AVSIM mod 188AHC. Your effort and contributions do not go unnoticed. Thank you.

Next update coming August 8th!

Sincerely,
The Microsoft Flight Simulator Team

PS: Hint — Announcement coming next update:

Daube
July 26th, 2019, 00:43
I'm a lurker at avsim (registered but never posted). I have been following the various topics about MFS, and it's really funny to see the replies from MS in that update.
A bit disappointed with the content of that update, but not disappointed at all with their communication skills :D
I'm not sure how much forums they really follow, but they confirmed they at least read avsim carefully. I'm glad they are looking more open to community interactions than in the past.

TuFun
July 26th, 2019, 01:15
Interesting when I posted that info the MFSX wasn't there. That showed up later.

PS: Hint — Announcement coming next update:

https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/logo-300x87.png

stansdds
July 26th, 2019, 03:57
Sounds encouraging.

000rick000
July 26th, 2019, 08:51
Announcement Regarding FSX? Interesting. Probably shutting down support and activation services for it. Need to shut down all remaining competition to their new product that they can prior to release of their new Sim.

Sundog
July 26th, 2019, 10:34
What is UGC content? User Guide?

heywooood
July 26th, 2019, 13:27
What is UGC content? User Guide?
User Generated Content?

000rick000
July 26th, 2019, 13:38
I'm curious if that joke "Text 'no subscription' - and await further instructions" has some truth to it. that would be amazing if it were NOT subscription based.

TuFun
August 15th, 2019, 22:57
If you have an insider account MS posted two screenshots and four videos.

Truly amazing! Gota sees the clouds in the video.

tgycgijoes
August 16th, 2019, 07:27
What kind of computer is it going to take to run this? I can't run P3DV4x on mine now and I can't afford to buy new equipment just to fly, paying for other things like a car and a house that take a little more priority. Exciting news? I don't know if it is for me or not.

TuFun
August 16th, 2019, 08:40
Video by gibbage1 talking about the update.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8KK0P_lRsY

tgycgijoes
August 16th, 2019, 10:43
I watched the videos and thought they looked great...went to Flightsimulator.com to sign up for the Insider to get first hand updates. That never worked because I REFUSE to create an X-box profile for them. Asked MS for help and they connect me with X-box support chat that didn't help at all because he admitted after 15 minutes of click and type that he didn't know a thing about the flight simulator and said he would give me a link which he gave me to X-box support. Duh!!! with a CAPITAL D. Tufun did you have to create an X-box profile to get in or how did you join Insider. I did the signup; email confirmation and that's when all this X-box junk started. Am I unhappy right now?

TuFun
August 16th, 2019, 11:49
I watched the videos and thought they looked great...went to Flightsimulator.com to sign up for the Insider to get first hand updates. That never worked because I REFUSE to create an X-box profile for them. Asked MS for help and they connect me with X-box support chat that didn't help at all because he admitted after 15 minutes of click and type that he didn't know a thing about the flight simulator and said he would give me a link which he gave me to X-box support. Duh!!! with a CAPITAL D. Tufun did you have to create an X-box profile to get in or how did you join Insider. I did the signup; email confirmation and that's when all this X-box junk started. Am I unhappy right now?

I have a Microsoft account for my Windows 10 account and Microsoft Casual Gamer account which use Xbox Live. Don't know if it's required since I had these account last year.

Daube
August 16th, 2019, 12:28
That never worked because I REFUSE to create an X-box profile for them.

Just out of curiosity: Why ?

I don't remember creating an XBox profile... maybe I did in the past ? Not sure.
The website identified me with my Windows10/Outlook accout (I use hotmail for my emails since a very long time), and I also have an Office365 subscription...
Never had an XBox, but maybe I performed the steps to create a profile in the past and I don't remember?...
Anyways, I just signed up for the insider program, received an email, clicked on the confirmation link, and that's all.

YoYo
September 20th, 2019, 11:03
Sept 19 update:

https://www.flightsimulator.com/september-19th-2019-development-update/

http://i.imgur.com/zOEdi4bl.png (https://imgur.com/zOEdi4b)

:biggrin-new:

Jafo
September 20th, 2019, 17:09
Announcement Regarding FSX? Interesting. Probably shutting down support and activation services for it. Need to shut down all remaining competition to their new product that they can prior to release of their new Sim.
That will be in violation of consumer protection laws .... unless they just put in place a process where activation is no longer required....;)

tgycgijoes
September 20th, 2019, 17:10
I have a Microsoft Account...I have an Xbox profile...every time I try and open up to see the updates all I get is an unexpected error try again later. I would really like to try and be a part of the Alpha team to see if this will work on my system and how but am getting very frustrated with this. You got any ideas?:banghead:

Managing to get in by repeatedly pressing enter I'm in now an hour later I may get something to work who knows.

This is probably the most confusing thing I have tried to do in a long time but I finally got an answer...I am Windows 7 NOT Windows 10 so I cannot get an Xbox APP and therefore cannot participate. That's OK. I am relaying this to anyone else who is not on Windows 10 or later don't bother trying.

TuFun
September 20th, 2019, 17:46
I think that's a given for MSFS being on Windows 10 since Xbox is on that OS. As for FSX who knows maybe an update to DX11 giving it a little more life.

tgycgijoes
September 20th, 2019, 19:12
I own FSX Box and Acceleration on Disk so I will be flying that with all my addons as long as I want to. I don't know what the ones on FSX(Steam) will do if they pull the plug on that. Perhaps go to P3DV2 or P3DV3 both of which my computer will run because the FSX stuff is compatible I believe. FS2020 is truly beautiful I agree but when I'm flying in an aircraft that I repainted to and from airports that I created I'm truly a happy simmer. :biggrin-new:

jdhaenens
September 21st, 2019, 20:06
I'm in.

Jim

000rick000
September 21st, 2019, 20:20
I own FSX Box and Acceleration on Disk so I will be flying that with all my addons as long as I want to. I don't know what the ones on FSX(Steam) will do if they pull the plug on that. Perhaps go to P3DV2 or P3DV3 both of which my computer will run because the FSX stuff is compatible I believe. FS2020 is truly beautiful I agree but when I'm flying in an aircraft that I repainted to and from airports that I created I'm truly a happy simmer. :biggrin-new:

You don't have to perform an online activation? I have the discs as well and it still requires an activation online....can't imagine they would continue with that option when trying to launch their new product....

Daube
September 22nd, 2019, 03:02
Yes, the disc version of FSX still requires activation, which for a lot of users (if not most?) has to be done by phone instead of online.

Stefano Zibell
September 22nd, 2019, 03:41
I own FSX Box and Acceleration on Disk so I will be flying that with all my addons as long as I want to. I don't know what the ones on FSX(Steam) will do if they pull the plug on that. Perhaps go to P3DV2 or P3DV3 both of which my computer will run because the FSX stuff is compatible I believe. FS2020 is truly beautiful I agree but when I'm flying in an aircraft that I repainted to and from airports that I created I'm truly a happy simmer. :biggrin-new:

If they stop selling FSX steam, it will still be available to download anytime, anywhere for everyone that owns it. That's how steam works. Even FSW still is.

p14u2nv
September 23rd, 2019, 11:50
Yes, the disc version of FSX still requires activation, which for a lot of users (if not most?) has to be done by phone instead of online.

I recently installed a fresh copy (3rd time) of FSX from original discs and didn't have an issue with calling anyone concerning activation.

(Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that for fear that going forward M$ will now be reading my posts...and merely awaiting any new installations!)

TuFun
September 26th, 2019, 19:44
Looking good! Wow NYC!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW2kQnWpUJ4

Sundog
September 27th, 2019, 20:37
The graphics look simply amazing. I see them threatening my current PC like it's a Great White Shark; I'm gonna need a bigger boat. :pop4:

Boss86001
September 27th, 2019, 23:59
Looks pretty amazing!

stansdds
September 28th, 2019, 05:57
The graphics look simply amazing. I see them threatening my current PC like it's a Great White Shark; I'm gonna need a bigger boat. :pop4:

That's just it. What sort of PC will it take to run this sim? FSX was stunning when it was released, but the minimum requirements made for a visually bland experience and it was some time before PC hardware caught up well enough to actually allow the sim to run with nice, but not full, graphic goodies.

SSI01
September 28th, 2019, 07:01
Looking like it's going to take one of those computers in the basement of the Pentagon to run that scenery without the slightest hiccup. I'll settle for MS giving us FSX folks our worldwide weather link back.

DaleRFU
September 30th, 2019, 05:55
Interesting video

https://youtu.be/Fj8h6yibHHc

Seahawk72s
September 30th, 2019, 06:26
Interesting video

https://youtu.be/Fj8h6yibHHc

Thank you..!
A lot of detailed system information with more jaw dropping in sim scenery.

dvj
September 30th, 2019, 07:44
hitting social media:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/30/flight-simulator-2020-hands-on-pre-alpha/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGKs0JuKFyf3kScw9DmCfcxUS8GY WUKE6P1mhVPRNXhNX6rTslBE0T_bPL4GlvRrgI2iJ-zi4cEqGvcrQhBkFll31qndfHef9N60bCy0O8BVvhzCKdsFqcdG OAPYM2RslUHuyvTFEN2RCqVywc71K9K3dIAtrWP-Cyq4KZg2A7ut

Bradburger
September 30th, 2019, 08:33
A few more videos from the MS presentation Renton: -


https://youtu.be/a-ppN8HjZGk


https://youtu.be/Nj2gac_1wA0


https://youtu.be/ikT8qKZxGAw


https://youtu.be/HrJs0jK4a1g

Cheers

Paul

TuFun
September 30th, 2019, 08:35
What About All of My Third-Party Aircraft?

Microsoft is incorporating a legacy mode that it expects will provide near-complete backward compatibility, so those of us who have huge libraries of old favorites won’t be starting entirely from scratch. In addition, Microsoft is committed to providing a software development kit (SDK) with the product at launch that will give developers the tools they need to build add-ons, though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates. In other news for add-on aircraft builders, every parameter is now exposed in plain text, with no more binaries. This means it’s going to be easier than ever to create high-quality add-on aircraft, or to tinker with the ones you already have. For those who like emulating glass cockpits, those displays are fully programmable based on straightforward coding instead of a library of animations, and support things like touch screens and synthetic vision.


While the team is currently evaluating something like an in-sim store for supplemental content, there will be no requirements to use it, and no restrictions of any kind on downloading freeware or payware add-ons from other sources.

Javis
September 30th, 2019, 11:13
Not much response yet to these mindblowing videos..... ( thanks guys! ).
I suppose everybody is blown away, speechless or looking for their socks or jaws :dizzy:

One of my favourite snippets (put it in a loop and watch it for an hour or so) :


https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/Feb%20Build%20Non%20Active%20Dash.mp4?_=2

Here's an article by former Aces member Hal Bryan:

http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/?fbclid=IwAR0dYUMkYaBXH04K2Ua8OopuxV5Ru-SHWBewVEzcqfCKBeLpxdy-hHgXxoc (http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/?fbclid=IwAR0dYUMkYaBXH04K2Ua8OopuxV5Ru-SHWBewVEzcqfCKBeLpxdy-hHgXxoc)

AFAIK nothing about ATC or AI sofar...

TuFun
September 30th, 2019, 12:26
Not much response yet to these mindblowing videos..... ( thanks guys! ).
I suppose everybody is blown away, speechless or looking for their socks or jaws :dizzy:

One of my favourite snippets (put it in a loop and watch it for an hour or so) :


https://cdn.microsoftstudios.com/fsi/Feb%20Build%20Non%20Active%20Dash.mp4?_=2

Here's an article by former Aces member Hal Bryan:

http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/?fbclid=IwAR0dYUMkYaBXH04K2Ua8OopuxV5Ru-SHWBewVEzcqfCKBeLpxdy-hHgXxoc (http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/?fbclid=IwAR0dYUMkYaBXH04K2Ua8OopuxV5Ru-SHWBewVEzcqfCKBeLpxdy-hHgXxoc)

AFAIK nothing about ATC or AI sofar...

That quote I post was from Hal. I forgot the source link.

It's going crazy over at Avsim! Pretty much dead here. :biggrin-new:

warchild
September 30th, 2019, 12:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrJs0jK4a1g

mal998
September 30th, 2019, 13:16
I wonder if anyone has seen the file structure yet. There is a good chance I'll be developing FDEs for one of the payware companies and I'd love to know more about the flight model build process.

Is it time to say goodbye to AirEd? If it is what's next?

PRB
September 30th, 2019, 13:31
I just finished watching that FlightChops video. Was going to post it here but Pam beat me to it. :untroubled: Looks pretty good! I didn't understand the scenery discussion. Sounds like we will need an Internet connection to see pretty scenery. Hopefully not a super fast one.

RobM
September 30th, 2019, 14:03
I just finished watching that FlightChops video. Was going to post it here but Pam beat me to it. :untroubled: Looks pretty good! I didn't understand the scenery discussion. Sounds like we will need an Internet connection to see pretty scenery. Hopefully not a super fast one.

From Hal Bryan's article:

"The scenery is built on Bing satellite and aerial imagery, augmented with cool buzzwordy stuff like photogrammetric 3D modeling and multiple other data sources, all of which is streamed via Microsoft’s Azure cloud service. Yes, the word streaming means you’ll need an internet connection, but you can download and pre-cache scenery areas for offline use, or even fly in a fully offline mode".

"The computers were described as upper-, but not top-, end machines with GeForce RTX video cards, and the internet connection feeding the scenery tested out at about 25 megabits"..

25 megabits is equal to 3.126 Megabytes.

-RobM..

warchild
September 30th, 2019, 14:15
I wonder if anyone has seen the file structure yet. There is a good chance I'll be developing FDEs for one of the payware companies and I'd love to know more about the flight model build process.

Is it time to say goodbye to AirEd? If it is what's next?

Thats been my question since i got myfirst sniff of it a few weeks ago. sadly, theres been an nda in place thats kept a gag on it all till today. One thing i'm certain of is that they're out to beat down x-plane 11 in some aspects while maintaining that fun feeling fsx always had.