The painfully timeconsuming path to creating something new [Archive]

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Vitus

May 17th, 2019, 08:20

So.... I was just warned and banned from avsim for a day for having the audacity of posting the following story in the hangar chat. I am still bewildered by this experience and still await a response from the moderators over there.
I really like to share my experience and hopefully get some good ideas from the flightsim community.

I hope SOH does not see this as blatant advertisement and allows content like this to be hosted here. Please let me know if I'm in violation of any codes of conduct.

https://i.imgur.com/eAYeRJu.jpg

Hello Avsim!

I would like to share some of the joy and some of the agony I experienced over the past few years working on the simulation of ONE add-on for flight simulator. This is partially personal story, shameless product placement and rant. I started working on the Lockheed Vega about three years ago. The decision to work on that particular aircraft was driven by my passion for vintage aviation and the idea that the simulation of an aircraft like the Vega would be simple enough to complete within about a year time. Boy, was I wrong.

While the essential bits of this iconic aircraft - the 3d model and textures - were completed rather quickly, the simulation of the systems is an entirely different matter. The reason being that I couldn't be satisfied producing an aircraft that just looks good and flies well - I knew from the start that it is the systems simulation that transform a good aircraft to an outstanding add-on.

I launched Wing42 about a year ago and with it released the Lockheed Vega as an Early Access product. I received some criticism for that decision, being told that Early-Access is "money-grabbing" or "pay-for-beta". I whole-heartily disagree! While it is true that the sales I make with the Early Access definitely help financing the development, my main motivation to go down that path was to tap into the hearts and minds of the users and through the interaction with the customers shape the product as close to perfection as I am able to. And let me tell you: the feedback I received through this process has been way beyond my imagination. I can confidently say that the Wing42 Vega would've never gotten to this level of realism without the feedback and criticism gained through the Early-Access program.

https://i.imgur.com/RHjEofI.jpg

The overarching goal of this devellopment is to provide the user with an experience, rather than just an aircraft. I am trying to replicate the experience of operating an aircraft in the 1920s as closely as the platform allows. This immersion into the past is what this add-on represents - at least to me, and I hope for my customers too.

To facilitate said immersion, I tried to replicate operating procedures well beyond the actual flying of the aircraft. With version 0.85 I implemented an interactive ground crew together with a dialog interface. The interface is used to instruct your rampie to install the various ground equipment available and he will respond to you and inform you when the instructed tasks are completed. Apart from the programming of this interface, I also commissioned some artwork to give "Heinrich" a face and I spent considerable time recording the different responses. Another example of how the Vega tries to immerse you into the 1920s lies in the design of the various 2d panels that come with the add-on. The goal with the UI/UX is to incorporate design features of that time and give every interface the look and feel of a piece of paper. As an example for that, have a look at what I am working on at the moment. The upcoming version 0.90 of the aircraft will feature the new "Aircraft Desk" which is used to interact with aircraft log and engine log as well as provide some feedback on the wear & tear of the airplane. I am currently working 70-80 hours per week on this and many other new features, in the hope to get it done by the beginning of June.

https://i.imgur.com/apCfqUS.jpg

So far I received overwhelmingly positive feedback from my customers. I can't recall a single one who was unhappy with the product as it is right now. The feedback that I get from users is mostly suggestions of things they like to see in a future update, or a report of some feature that doesn't work just yet. Despite that, sales have been abysmal lately. I am under no illusion that by itself, this project would ever be able to recuperate the immense expenses that I sunk into this project. But my hope is that the technology that I created in the process of developing this aircraft can be transferred into future products as well and in that way transform Wing42 into a viable business. However, I am still a bit disheartened by the lack of interest by the community as a whole, therefore I'd like to end my ramblings with two questions for you:

1. What do you think is the reason for the disregard of the add-on in the wider flight sim community?
2. I welcome any suggestions how to boost the profile of Wing42 and the Lockheed Vega.

Lastly, I want to thank all of the supporters of my work and everyone who already purchased the Lockheed Vega already. I am certain you will be blown away with the release of the next update and I'll do my best to deliver as fast as possible.

Kind Regards,
Otmar

FlyingsCool

May 17th, 2019, 08:22

That's why I hang out here and not at Avsim anymore. I love these discussions, and love interacting with developers and people who like flight simming without the drama...

FlyingsCool

May 17th, 2019, 08:26

And, as a side note, your constant interaction with the community and release of beta product to the purchasers totally justified early access sales. Criticism should be reserved for those who sell things and don't deliver. You've delivered a million percent.

FlyingsCool

May 17th, 2019, 08:35

To answer your questions:

1. What do you think is the reason for the disregard of the add-on in the wider flight sim community?
2. I welcome any suggestions how to boost the profile of Wing42 and the Lockheed Vega.

1. It's a single product with likely somewhat limited audience. Flight simming is a HUGE expanse of interests.
2. It's your first product... It'll take probably a few years for it to really start gaining some traction....Marketing will be very important.
3. I'll bet the audience for beta product is somewhat limited. Many people will want to pay only for finished product.

In general, I think patience is in order on your part. My bet is interest will be slow to build, but that it will once you release the product for real. Then, I think the good thing is, hopefully you'll consider developing 2 or 3 more planes, and that the process will go MUCH faster for those planes based on your experience with this one. Having an expanded product line and high quality products like this one, will drive more and more word of mouth and more and more people to your site and to purchases.

To sum it all up - Don't give up! You're on your way :) You've created something very impressive here. I imagine you already have, but think about approaching the CalClassic folks. Big audience for you there.

P.S. Your plane is on my list of purchases to be made, likely over the next year or so.

FlyingsCool

May 17th, 2019, 08:50

P.P.S... And not wanting to have you dilute your work, but maybe get together with a really good scenery developer and create some period airports and scenery. It's always nice to fly in context.

Edit: I think I misworded what I meant, as scenery won't dilute your work in any way, but having to learn all you'll need to learn to create a new scenery would tend to take you away from your other work. There are plenty of people out there who you could work with to develop it... And I think such a product would be really key for a lot of people.

SiR_RiPPER

May 17th, 2019, 09:00

I don't frequent avsim for the same reasons, but to stick to the topic:

I've been through that curve myself and I believe that we'll come out of it soon. From my standpoint, the steps to growing are:

Quality: that's something your Vega seems to have to the max
Quantity: get more products out. One plane is a firework, no matter how good. Many planes are what will catch more people's attention, increasing your market. As we're doing simobjects, we need to put more products out. On the other hand, if you were developing something like AccuFeel or Chaseplane you could get 10x more sales than you would with an excellent airliner.
Experience: That's something where views may differ. Your Vega seems to offer the full monty in managing the machine itself. My personal preference to take this one notch further would be to add, i.e., a scenery that matches the era. Be that a different product or part of the same.
Honesty: Don't sell your stuff for what they're not. People hate it when they get less than they were promised. If there's a reason to withdraw a feature, be up-front and say why. If you can't do something, don't promise it.

johnwillimas2

May 17th, 2019, 09:02

Well, for what it's worth, this post encouraged me to head on over to the Wing42 site to have a look. (Which I guess plays to FlyingsCool's remark "Marketing will be very important".

It certainly looks like an impressive development and the deep simulation of systems is something that appeals to me (I've never really been a ctrl-E sort of guy). A2A have shown that there is a desire for classic aircraft with complex systems and I'm guessing that those who liked the Connie or the Strat might well line up for this too.

The question of paying to gain early access to software is always going to divide folk. On one hand its a great way to encourage a developer and to participate in the development of the product (I know I have a smug feeling when I use a feature that I've commented on or made a suggestion to improve). On the other the FS world is littered with products where development times have stretched into the far horizons (and in some cases never been realised - the AT Sims Antonov AN2 has only now fixed stuff in the original Sibwings product of at least 6 years ago!). Not many folk have that much patience. The issue will always be whether there are enough of the former to keep the developer going until they get to release

I guess my advice is the same as that of Winston Churchill, "Keep b***ering on!" I'm sure that the enthusiastic plaudits of your early access users will be a great aid to promotion once the product is complete.

As to why AVSIM got themselves in a twist over this, I can't imagine. Some folk have problems recognising the commercial realities of the world in which developers often want (quite reasonably) to get paid for their efforts. Certainly it seems you ask two very reasonable questions. From my own viewpoint the Vega isn't an aircraft I would have thought have buying - I don't think I ever flew the one one if FS2004 - but what I've read on the Wing42 site has me intrigued and I'll add it to my watch list!

Cheers and good luck - the FS community needs developers committed to pushing the simulation envelope with whatever airframe!

falcon409

May 17th, 2019, 09:23

I would echo much of what FC had to say. The passion of a developer for a particular Era of flight is something that may not be shared by others in the Community in the numbers you might have wanted or expected. Everything has a niche and depending on the individuals that can be quite vast for some (WarBirds, Business Jets and larger Commuter types for example) and not so much for others (Experimental, WW1, Amphibs) those groups are passionate to be sure, but the actual numbers may not be what you would have expected.

Your Vega is a first rate Airplane and your desire to make it exceptional is evident, but it falls into a niche where your passion for that airplane and the Era of Flight it represents is not shared by a huge following, probably not in the numbers you had thought, IMHO.

Your reason for the Early Access Program as a way of releasing the product and the intentions you stated as your true reason for doing so are commendable, however, in the end. . .folks see it as "I'm paying someone to beta test an airplane". Simple as that and as FC stated, the audience for Beta Testing an airplane you paid for is limited and frowned upon in most cases. This idea has been used to the point of frustration by buyers who don't think it's a good idea or good form to pay for an airplane they view as unfinished.

You have a great product, you have a following. . . .in numbers that may grow over time and sales that will continue to happen. The best to you and your continued development.

henrystreet

May 17th, 2019, 10:37

For what it's worth, Jim Young at Avsim has made minor edits to Vitus' post to remove violations of their forum policies and made the post visible again. He also added a bit of commentary in support of developer discussion.

Vitus

May 17th, 2019, 10:46

Hey guys,

just a quick heads-up: Jim Young of avsim reacted to my message and unlocked the topic again. Not without leaving a remark (warning?). You can find it over here:
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/554572-the-painfully-time-consuming-path-to-creating-something-new/

While I disagree with his interpretation of my original post, I am glad that he allowed it for others to read and react and I would like to leave it at that.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! One thing I want to stress straight away: I am actually extremely happy in the little niche of vintage aircraft and I think that it is big enough to build a business around. If anything, A2A showed us how success can be achieved within this space of aviation. While I am a wee bit disappointed about how the sales were going since update 0.85, I can appreciate and understand the hesitation many flightsimer have both towards Early Access and a newcomer like Wing42.

What's really interesting is your suggestions of taking sceneries into the portfolio. This has also been on my mind for a long time, among a lot of other things I have planned for the future of Wing42! If only I could work faster or longer hours, I have so many ideas what should come next :biggrin-new:

Marketing is another huge issue that needs to be tackled in one way or another. I try to get in touch with youtubers to help spread the word, I booked advertisement and I try (sometimes more, sometimes less frequent) to utilize social media to keep Wing42 fresh in the minds. But for the most part this is also a double edged sword. The more time I spend "advertising", the less time I got for the development and I really want to get the Vega out and move on to the next project...

Thank you all for your encouragement and your suggestions! I love this community!

FlyingsCool

May 17th, 2019, 11:11

...

What's really interesting is your suggestions of taking sceneries into the portfolio.

...

Immersion is what it's all about!

...

This has also been on my mind for a long time, among a lot of other things I have planned for the future of Wing42! If only I could work faster or longer hours, I have so many ideas what should come next :biggrin-new:

....

But for the most part this is also a double edged sword. The more time I spend "advertising", the less time I got for the development and I really want to get the Vega out and move on to the next project...

Yeah, there's not enough time in the day for anyone. :(

This is why I suggested getting involved with one or two other people, most development is done by teams of people for this reason. Scenery development is largely a WHOLE other set of skills, and would definitely veer your focus away from what I know you want to finish...

speedy70

May 17th, 2019, 15:05

flyingscool.

I note your copious advice to Vitus and your diatribe saying --

P.S. Your plane is on my list of purchases to be made, likely over the next year or so.

Perhaps if the likes of you said less about planes you have never even purchased before you passed an opinion the likes of Vitus would be better off.

It is obvious you know nothing about the project which is fantastic.

Buy it and then pass an opinion!!!!

Vitus

May 17th, 2019, 15:58

pilto von pilto

May 17th, 2019, 17:48

Niche market in a niche market. Eg vintage GA in a community where approximately 10-20 % of the people on forums will actually buy your product. I have to say this quietly though as a number of people ( even on here ) don't like to hear that this side of the market is dwindling. Look at the big boys and what they are developing. Not a single vintage aircraft. Or if it is , it's a passionate project.

Early access is an issue even if intelligent people know that you're actually improving the product and acting upon (some of ) their wishes. Early access has been stained by the steam debacles of past. People see early access now as something to avoid. I know I would be waiting for v1.0 rc rather than early access even with the price discount.

As for the avsim thing... it's understandable. I think they should have what they have on the sub-reddit flightsim forum or xplane forum where devs can advertise their wares on a specific section. sure the traffic might not be as great as general discussion but you are at least adhering to a convention of sorts. If anyone from avsim is looking in on this ? A space for commercial interests posting news would be quite useful in bringing more devs back to avsim after some of the community issues avsim seems to have had in the past. But at the end of the day I think avsim is for end consumers and not devs.

SOH seems to be a little more relaxed about devs which is nice. But you still need to watch how you interact on here. This is primarily a forum for end users.

wombat666

May 17th, 2019, 23:39

Vitus,
Anything that is non-combat or contemporary will struggle, that seems to be a brutal fact.
I applaud yourearly access approach, as it does allow (those of us) early access buyers to give positive feed back and a feeling of involvement in bringing the Vega to fruition.
'Early Access' is not a bad thing, having personally been involved in a couple of Race Sim projects I have gained considerable insight into project developement and the pitfalls within.
This is a process entirely dependant on the enthusiasm of all involved, ergo the failure of certain 'Steam Efforts', due to a few rogue developers and a largely puerile audeience.
Keep on keeping on, when the Vega reaches completion and your work becomes known, the hard yards are over!
:encouragement:

erican2

May 18th, 2019, 01:16

It looks very nice, post some screenshots on other flightsim sites the more people that know about it the better.

MrZippy

May 18th, 2019, 04:28

As for the avsim thing... it's understandable. I think they should have what they have on the sub-reddit flightsim forum or xplane forum where devs can advertise their wares on a specific section. sure the traffic might not be as great as general discussion but you are at least adhering to a convention of sorts. If anyone from avsim is looking in on this ? A space for commercial interests posting news would be quite useful in bringing more devs back to avsim after some of the community issues avsim seems to have had in the past. But at the end of the day I think avsim is for end consumers and not devs.

There are a couple of ways to do it at AVSIM. You can submit a new Product Announcement/Press release or post in the Bargain Hunters forum as a Commercial Member, which Vitus is.

69110

Bruce66

May 18th, 2019, 07:55

Hi Vitius

I find this discussion interesting for many reasons but lets start with potential customer feedback:

Would I buy your product? At present, no, for these reasons.

a. I know little about the aircraft in reality so the prime interest is not there. I went to A2A originally to find a good Spitfire - in the end I left combat sims and switched to FSX just to get the A2A Spitfire. So that is the drive to get a new aircraft.

b. I have a limited budget (very limited budget!) and need to make my purchases carefully.
- A good demo video or a free demo version are two possible ways to attract my attention.
- Positive customer feedback is another way.
- And previous good experience is a third way.
So basically if I buy a plane somewhere after being convinced by a demo video and good customer feedback and then something doesn't work and the customer service is poor I wont buy there again (this happens far too often). A good free demo version is a great way to get my money because when I have tried something and I like it I feel very obligated to make a contribution (I know lots of people don't have this compulsion but I do). There are a few examples in my hanger of planes I had never heard of where I have gone on to purchase a few planes from a developer just because I was so impressed with their products.

So what would convince a person like me to buy?
- An historical context for the product (I like the idea of period scenery but that is not necessarily important - a simulated airshow would likely suffice).
- Why is the aircraft important to you?
- Why should it interest me?
This may all be in your website but as a busy family man (my kid is pummeling me with his pad right now!) I have little time to spend reading unless I am motivated. This thread has gone a little way to grabbing my interest, a good short/ish video would go a long way towards convincing me.

You mentioned you have talked to youtubers about marketing. In what sense? An ad that pops up? That would cost you I bet. Has no one been willing to make a video to show off your product's features? I have a You Tube channel which I do NOT use for plugging products or doing reviews - it is just for fun - but I do know how to make You Tube videos. I know a friend of mine who has a channel of his own makes videos commercially for customers to use on their own websites or whatever. He does not do simulator stuff but has done aviation videos. If you want to ask for more information about the You Tube thing feel free to send me a personal message.

Edit: I've had a bit of time to take a closer look at your page and see you have some perfectly good videos up there. So my comments about the video side of things are more-or-less redundant. (Remember I said my kid was hitting my round the head with his pad.....makes it hard to concentrate....)

Bjoern

May 18th, 2019, 07:56

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 10:41

Got the Vega 5 today and with the help of Vitus, it was subsequently rendered functional in P3D V3 - originally, it would install in P3D V4 or FSX; I use neither, but Vitus reconfigured the installer
so that it would install in P3D V3 and it works great. It is an awesome experience to fly a work of art such at this and it's only a beta. It has a spark advance lever that has to be set correctly or
else a lot of backfire will happen. There is the assistant "Heinrich" that you can call on to install/remove chocks/Pitot tube/ baggage cart and ladder. There realisim settings are a WIP.

I have a few screen shots of some of the liveries - didn't capture all of them. I highly recommend this one :encouragement:

https://i.postimg.cc/XJY11p6f/Vega.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sfZqkGZm/vega1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/0Nbc7hYn/vega2.jpg

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 10:42

Thanks Vitus for this creation.....

https://i.postimg.cc/15BH2yMM/vega3.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/yx2Hz2m8/vega5.jpg

Bruce66

May 18th, 2019, 12:04

Well the kids have gone to bed and the wife is watching a romance so I took some time to watch the videos and read up a bit. And I see my friend Gray Eagle has purchased and recommended this plane as well!

I am impressed with the detail of the systems etc and it looks really nice! I take it the engine sounds have not been implemented yet? Also in the videos the wheel smoke etc seems to be in the early stages - I assume that has been sorted. I think you may need some recent videos - or perhaps you are waiting for the final version for that.

I am still struggling with the price (I know I'm mean) for a plane I never actually heard of until today. (The Electra now - that interests me!) Not that I think it is overpriced for what a person would be getting. Just on a budget a guy has to make choices somehow...

We will see.....

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 12:09

Josh Patterson

May 18th, 2019, 12:19

Bruce66

May 18th, 2019, 12:27

There are engine sounds....Not sure about what sounds were not implemented.

Here is video of real deal - the one in this video is included in the vega 5.

Cheers Gray Eagle, I just watched that video and was about to post it myself! Very cool!

Love those engine sounds near the end!

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 12:42

Here are some pics of the other liveries that are included

https://i.postimg.cc/44t8CVVv/vega-6.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3wVZVxwb/vega-7.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Y2ZwR6k1/vega8.jpg

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 12:47

Just got this last night and got a flight in today. Engine kept backfiring then I saw the spark advance lever. Now I can make like Stan Laurel with his Model T and misuse this lever to make ear splitting bangs! Flies very well just have to get used to no flaps and plan my approaches better. Can't wait for the full version! I do have a hard time seeing under the instrument panel as it's very dark. I did find the starter though.

I found under electrical installation view where the light switches are (last one on right for the cockpit lights)

https://i.postimg.cc/Pqdm7VY9/vega9.jpg

When I switched on the cockpit light switch this is result

https://i.postimg.cc/vTq77YCz/vega10.jpg

gray eagle

May 18th, 2019, 14:34

This is an older video (Aug 2018) of WIng42 Vega 5 back then. Some updates were done since then I'm sure but back then, you can see and appreciate the awesome imagination and effort
that went into the development of this addon. The spark advance is now functional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyMoI4WLIJE

Vitus

May 18th, 2019, 14:41

Hi guys,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I was busy the whole day answering emails and wrapping a new installer to add support for Prepar3Dv3. Please note that the installer on the website is still only for FSX/SE and P3Dv4, but if you're also still flying P3Dv3, let me know and I can give you access to the modified download as well.

Thank you all for keeping the conversation going. I learn a lot reading through all your comments and suggestions and I am very grateful for your help!

Gray Eagle, thank you for your patience and being the "guinea pig" for the new installer. I also love your screenshots, it always brings a smile in my face when I see the Vega featured like this! Thank you!

Bruce, I think some of your questions have already been answered here. The Lockheed Vega was an amazing aircraft for the time, she was flown by Wiley Post (the "Winnie Mae") who twice took her around the world, the second time solo, beating his previous record. Amelia Earhart did her solo Atlantic crossing in a Vega 5B. Jimmy Doolittle flew set new intercontinental speed records. The Vega was flown on record flights by Ruth Nichols, Roscoe Turner, Jimmie Mattern and many others. Because she was by far the faster aircraft of her time!

Tom Harnish wrote a 70 page ebook for Wing42 in which he outlines the story of the Loughead brothers and their amazing aircraft. It's a really good read for anyone who's interested in the history behind the airplane.

A quick word on the engine sounds: the sounds included in the add-on are temporary and not very good. One of my milestones for version 0.90 is a replacement of those with a better sounding Wasp!

dvj

May 18th, 2019, 17:40

So far I received overwhelmingly positive feedback from my customers. I can't recall a single one who was unhappy with the product as it is right now. The feedback that I get from users is mostly suggestions of things they like to see in a future update, or a report of some feature that doesn't work just yet. Despite that, sales have been abysmal lately. I am under no illusion that by itself, this project would ever be able to recuperate the immense expenses that I sunk into this project. But my hope is that the technology that I created in the process of developing this aircraft can be transferred into future products as well and in that way transform Wing42 into a viable business. However, I am still a bit disheartened by the lack of interest by the community as a whole, therefore I'd like to end my ramblings with two questions for you:

1. What do you think is the reason for the disregard of the add-on in the wider flight sim community?
2. I welcome any suggestions how to boost the profile of Wing42 and the Lockheed Vega.

Lastly, I want to thank all of the supporters of my work and everyone who already purchased the Lockheed Vega already. I am certain you will be blown away with the release of the next update and I'll do my best to deliver as fast as possible.

Kind Regards,
Otmar

1. The simple answer just could be that the Vega is just not that popular or attractive enough of an aircraft to inspire interest except from a few niche customers. This is a wonderful simulation, but one aircraft does not make a portfolio of products from which to generate continued interest or income. You also vanished it seems for a few months between updates which may have left potential customers wondering if there would be on-going sales and product support. There is also a child's "new toy" syndrome that folks go through. It's new for a few months of flying, but many find themselves going back to flying old favorites. I am certain there are many virtual hangers filled with gigabytes of unflown aircraft sims.

2. Today, there are folks who act as "influencers" in social media who demonstrate and talk about products. This goes a long way to stimulate interest, discussion and maybe a few purchases.

Moses03

May 18th, 2019, 17:56

Hi Otmar,

Have to ask, in your avatar are you chording a B-E-G# triad?

Your Vega is really nice!

Kevin

tgycgijoes

May 18th, 2019, 18:04

Expand the experience to outside of the airplane to make it stick out from all the other add-ons. All the complexity of an old aircraft doesn't work if user are flying it in a 2005 environment.

A stretch of an air mail route, with lighted beacons, emergency (mud) fields, maybe even some Low Frequency Radio Range stations and backdated airports would be cool. Add some scenery objects like trains or cars from the period or something else. If you publish the assets you've used for that as a SDK, you might even get users interested in expanding on your original work. I figure a late 1930s FSX would generate quite a bit of interest.

Its a shame that the FS9 classics Golden Wings was never updated or Silver Wings both of which I used bacl then. Pre-WWII Hawaii scenery for the Clipper was so cool. Calclassics has a lot of good airports that can be used to at least get more of a look and feel of the time so that unless you actually want to be a restorer of a vintage Vega in 2019 and you have Airbus and Boeing 737s at Philadelphia or Cessna's and Beechcraft Kingairs at your regional airport...you get my drift. Tom Gibson and crew have a lot of really nice backdated airports over at CalClassics.

FlyingsCool

May 18th, 2019, 20:09

Speedy, I appreciate your enthusiasm I value the support you gave me tremendously! But to be honest, I am more than happy to hear flyingsCool's opinion, in part because I couldn't convince him of the product yet. I want to know why and I want to know what I can improve to convince him!

Every one of us has reasons why we decide to spend money on add-on A but not on add-on B, and from my point of view it's not the users fault if product B doesn't sell at the end of the day. My intention is be better at what I am doing, whether that is the product itself, the support or the marketing.

So no need to be upset at each other. We're all in different positions in life and I would love to continue an honest conversation both from people like you, who have the first hand experience already, but also from people that are still unconvinced. :ernaehrung004:

You could give me a raise....
Like everything... About the only thing holding me back from buying everything I ever want is budget.... I've got a plan and your plane is in that plan. Sadly, I've also got a guitar addiction to support, as well as two boys in college.

And yes, the Lockheed Vega has always been an interesting plane to me. I love the Golden Age, and back in the FS9 days I was planning on developing a mission series around Amelia Earheart.

Josh Patterson

May 18th, 2019, 21:12

I found under electrical installation view where the light switches are (last one on right for the cockpit lights)

https://i.postimg.cc/Pqdm7VY9/vega9.jpg

When I switched on the cockpit light switch this is result

https://i.postimg.cc/vTq77YCz/vega10.jpg Thanks Gray! I did fiddle with that box yesterday but mainly because I saw you could open it and check the fuses. (Just remember, a good pilot always keeps good quality .22 caliber bullets on hand in case a fuse blows.:biggrin-new:) Usually I don't read the manual instead choosing to sit in the cockpit and get familiar with things. (I also hunt for Easter eggs hidden around the cabin. I do wonder if the doors in the wing roots will ever open and what's inside of them!)I'll check the lights out in a bit. I do have to say in real life I would be very afraid of a mid air collision in a Vega. Clearing turns are tricky because you really have to crank up a wing to check your 3 or 9 o'clock through the sliver of a window Lockheed provided under the wing!

Vitus

May 19th, 2019, 02:46

Have to ask, in your avatar are you chording a B-E-G# triad?

Your Vega is really nice!

Hey Kevin,
Haha! The Avatar is as old as my account here on SOH itself, so let me just say.... yes. :jump:

Tom Gibson and crew have a lot of really nice backdated airports over at CalClassics.

I really need to set up an account at CalClassics...

In regards to scenery: to me this is currently the worst immersion breaker within the sim. But when I look for historic representations of airfields, I rarely come across ones that kept up with modern sim technology - i.e. complex models, good textures etc. Which is why I mostly stick with Orbx airfields.

I wonder how big the market is for a scenery of a 1930s representation of an iconic airfield in California.

Usually I don't read the manual instead choosing to sit in the cockpit and get familiar with things. (I also hunt for Easter eggs hidden around the cabin. I do wonder if the doors in the wing roots will ever open and what's inside of them!)

I'd highly recommend you flick through the manual anyway. There's a couple of things you probably wouldn't be aware of if you don't read about them. If you're having trouble starting your engine again after a previous flight, you probably forgot some important business of the startup procedure and broke some engine components as a result of it ;)

gray eagle

May 19th, 2019, 03:39

Hi Otmar,

For the P3D V3 users, I'd like to know if the future updates will be posted on your wing42 page and labeled for P3D V3 users?
Also, wouldn't it of been easier to just combine the FSX/P3DV3 & V4 into one installer?

Using an animated logbook for the preflight and the chocks, tie downs and baggage cart is brilliant. It reminds me of what the A2A folks use. :encouragement:
Still trying to figure out what the moveable floorboard in front of the stick is for. I opened it but didn't see anything underneath it. I saw the sticky note
taped on the dash and took that to be a hint of what may be below that movable floorboard....

Vitus

May 19th, 2019, 04:30

Yes, the changes I made to the installer will be included in the next update. So there will only be one installer that works for FSX, FSXSE, P3Dv3 and P3Dv4.x! Btw: It'd be easy enough to include support for the previous P3D versions 1 and 2 as well, since the model and systems are identical to FSX. But I don't know if there's demand for that. If anyone is interested in this, please send me an email! The only reason why I haven't included it by default is the hassle of getting the licenses from LM and having to install those packages as well.

The animated floorboard doesn't serve any function, besides providing a view at the control cables for the rudder. There's a few of those type of "useless" animations in the model. For example you can fold up the seats, open the ashtrays or extend the two "steps" on the port side of the cockpit. It's there just to add flavor to the experience.

You can remove the note on the dash by clicking on it, if you're annoyed by the smugness of your mechanic :biggrin-new:

Bruce66

May 20th, 2019, 04:10

OK, time to tell you where I am at:

Would I buy your product? I am nearly there! In fact I almost coughed up the dough yesterday and then stopped myself when I remembered something.

Let me explain. You have to face a long, and checkered history of developers who have not delivered the goods - some a bit slack, some downright disreputable. I am not commenting on you or your product at all - in fact I had made my mind up to buy and then I remembered this. I bought a plane a while back by a developer who delivered precisely what they advertised, they only made the one plane and it is immaculate - a piece of art! But I never fly it! Hmmm, why. I deceided to go back to that plane before taking the plunge on yours to find out why I never fly the previous one.

I remembered fairly quickly the problem - they do not support the mapping of the switches and controls to a controller but the virtual pilot MUST click in the virtual cockpit with the mouse on all the switches etc except for the yoke and throttle quadrant. Now I have mobility issues which make this process downright painful! So I have never actually taken this plane for a proper fly since, like many sim pilots I assume, I also hate to use the auto-start key. I WANT to go through the start-up procedure and I NEED for that procedure to be, at least mostly, mapped to the switches in my real cockpit so I can make a variaty of movements (continued use of the mouse causes my hand and arm to lock ending the flight).

So now for the big question: Can the majority of the controls in the Vega cockpit be mapped to a controller or are they mouse only? Its a deal breaker for me! (I mean this in the best possible way :jump:)

As to the long history of developers - it makes us poor customers with limited budgets a bit skittish when it comes to buying anything new. I bought another plane recently which had rave reviews, all the comments were good etc etc. But when I use the procedure to start the engines only two of the engines start by following the book. Nothing online about the problem so I contact the seller - they say they just distribute but here is the contact details for support. Thanks say I and try to contact the developer - the contact details are defunct so I go back to the seller. They give me new contact details which I promptly use to try and solve my problem. Never a response from the developer! Now the plane WILL start with auto-start but remember I HATE using auto-start so now I am reluctant to buy from either that developer or the seller that sold me the dud product.

You see our problem as buyers...

All that said I feel you have gone a long way to build a good reputation and your plane looks FANTASTIC! I love all the detail and the plane is actually a very interesting one now that I have done a bit of research. I am hoping the controls can be mapped so I can jump on board!

LouP

May 20th, 2019, 19:43

While I purchased the Vega when it was in early access and am really enjoying her, something else just came to me tonight. My buying has really dropped off and I will continue to be very selective until more is known about the next gen simulator and what will run on it. Given the trend that a lot of developers are starting to charge for upgrades or make you re-purchase the product all over again, I'd rather not throw my money into an item that could be soon obsolete.

LouP

gray eagle

May 21st, 2019, 05:18

I wanted to see if any one else having issues using the inertia startup switch on the Vega 5?
After trying to use the starter switch I always end up using the CTRL + E to start the engine.
I hear the flywheel spinning and after `30 seconds, pull the switch out and it is supposed to mesh
with the crankshaft ergo start the engine.

This start switch is a lofty idea however, for me, I'm not having much luck using it to start the engine.
When the flywheel is engaged with the crankshaft, I usually manage to briefly rotate the prop while
I hear the engine trying to turn over.

Not sure how long to push in the starter switch but if for too long, I will blow a fuse which has to be replaced.
By then, one has to check the fuel pressure switch, (It will bleed if engine not running) by pumping the pressure up.

tgycgijoes

May 21st, 2019, 11:27

gray eagle

May 21st, 2019, 13:03

If this is a stupid reply, then I apologize up front, but did you push the mixture to "idle rich" which all aircraft that are not auto-mixture require? My standard checklist is to turn over the starter so that the prop rotates 5-6 times and circulates oil in the cylinders if its not hand rotated like the B-17's were and then give it spark with the magneto and idle rich mixture to give it fuel as you prime a few times. Now if the Vega doesn't work that way then chalk up my comment to.....:dizzy:

CTRL E automatically gives idle rich mixture increases prop pitch if variable pitch prop and cracks the throttle as it starts the engine(s).

If this is a stupid reply, then I apologize up front, but did you push the mixture to "idle rich"

I did. I went by the start up book - one thing I noticed is that CTRL+E will rotate the fuel starter switch to the right and will start- I thought it had to be set of BOTH which I am trying to determine.
Pointing forward?
I almost had it going with the starter switch but it was quick to fizzle out on me.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRrBXZKP/Capture.jpg

Fuel mixture to idle rich also........

EDIT! I found out that with CTRL + E the fuel selector switch is supposed to switch to the right. There once was a BOTH but not any more.
It may be a P3D V3 issue and perhaps that will be fixed.
Now there's three fuel tanks in the wing, each stores 32 gallons and during flight, you need to switch from tank to tank manually.

tgycgijoes

May 21st, 2019, 15:43

I did. I went by the start up book - one thing I noticed is that CTRL+E will rotate the fuel starter switch to the right and will start- I thought it had to be set of BOTH which I am trying to determine.
Pointing forward?
I almost had it going with the starter switch but it was quick to fizzle out on me.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRrBXZKP/Capture.jpg

Fuel mixture to idle rich also........

EDIT! I found out that with CTRL + E the fuel selector switch is supposed to switch to the right. There once was a BOTH but not any more.
It may be a P3D V3 issue and perhaps that will be fixed.
Now there's three fuel tanks in the wing, each stores 32 gallons and during flight, you need to switch from tank to tank manually.

Your picture as I see it is the fuel tank selector and since you say that their are three fuel tanks, then I see left, right and center or something like that in that fuel cock. Now Left, Right and Both usually is a magneto switch for the spark. I'm going by the PT-13 Stearman but that only has one fuel tank in the upper wing with 46 gallons. That is my thought. Obviously Vitus who created and designed this knows much much better than I do how its supposed to work. My vintage experience is based on the C-47/DC3; Stearman PT-17; Curtiss SOC3 Seagull and Vultee BT-13 Valiant as far as somewhat of the Vega era though its some years earlier. You'll figure it out and I'm sure he'll help.