News on the old Alpha BAC TSR2 and Others

[mal998]

Today I received a correspondence from the owner of the old Alpha TSR2, Dave Hanvey. The last time I heard from him was probably 3 years ago at which time I asked if he would allow me to put a team together in order to upgrade his work to be released as freeware. In my response today I asked if it would be ok to post his email for the forum to see. I am awaiting a response. So, if this is to move ahead I will need to hear from those members who possess the necessary skills to bring this old favorite (and others) up to speed. I suppose that means folks who know how to work on the old model which was built in FSDS and those who know how to rebuild a VC. Milton and crew come to mind but this will be a big undertaking so I guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. BTW, there are several projects he owns the rights to i.e, EE Lightnings, TSR2, Sepecat Jaguars (possibly if Remi gives his permission), F20 Tigershark, Hawker P1127

To be continued...

mal

[Bjoern]

TBH I consider an outright rebuild utopic for general lack of time or interest by most devs, but I figure that those savvy in ModelConverter might just convert a few of the models into FSX/P3D native format as demonstrated by the F-8, F-101, etc.

[Blackbird686]

Now that brings back memories. The ALPHA TSR2 was one of the first payware planes I bought for FS9. I took my copy and added some mods to the panel, changed the sounds... etc. I had Dave Hanvey's blessing when I converted his FS2002 Hawker Sea Fury to work in CFS2, over 8 YEARS ago! (prolly more than that!)

I think Dave would be agreeable with this, and the venerable ALPHA TSR2, even though it's still a very good representation of the real bird, has gotten a little long in the tooth. The TSR2 would be a long overdue addition to FSX, IMO.

BB686:US-flag:

[Sundog]

Is he the one who did the Iris F-20? I would love an update of the model with an accurate two seater and a more accurate cockpit. Maybe even a production version with the bigger wing.

[fsafranek]

That's great news Mitch. Thanks for following up on that.
:ernaehrung004:

[DC1973]

I use FSDS 3.5.1 so would be familiar with the build requirements, but I don't know whether it's worth taking on a full rebuild of any such older aircraft, as the existing models can easily be converted to FSX / P3D standard using Model Converter X, with the model owner's permission. While at it, extras can also be added such as specular, fresnel, bumps etc if they're not already present, so there's no need to head back into FSDS other than to redo the virtual cockpits to bring them up to date. I'll keep an eye on this thread as it's certainly something that I might have an interest in.

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.

[DaveWG]

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.

I love you, and want to have your babies!

[alain0568]

Hello,


-Great news about the Jaguar !!:applause:


Alain
-

[DC1973]

I love you, and want to have your babies!

LOL! A beer'll do Dave :very_drunk:

[DaveQ]

I use FSDS 3.5.1 so would be familiar with the build requirements, but I don't know whether it's worth taking on a full rebuild of any such older aircraft, as the existing models can easily be converted to FSX / P3D standard using Model Converter X, with the model owner's permission. While at it, extras can also be added such as specular, fresnel, bumps etc if they're not already present, so there's no need to head back into FSDS other than to redo the virtual cockpits to bring them up to date. I'll keep an eye on this thread as it's certainly something that I might have an interest in.

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.

I had a look at the Alpha TSR2 a couple of years ago but it was beyond my very limited MCX capabilities. But as part of that exercise, I bought a nice monograph on it and did a stencil walkaround on the one at Duxford. Had another look this week but there are, for me, a number of issues I can't seem to resolve. First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled (:encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with (:banghead:). Added to which the model itself is showing its age. So, for these reasons, I'm awaiting Rob Richardson's version and I'm out!

DaveQ

[DC1973]

I had a look at the Alpha TSR2 a couple of years ago but it was beyond my very limited MCX capabilities. But as part of that exercise, I bought a nice monograph on it and did a stencil walkaround on the one at Duxford. Had another look this week but there are, for me, a number of issues I can't seem to resolve. First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled (:encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with (:banghead:). Added to which the model itself is showing its age. So, for these reasons, I'm awaiting Rob Richardson's version and I'm out!

DaveQ

Sounds like there are some assets that MCX can't access or alter. Besides, if that model looks old now then it's probably time to move on.

Ah, I didn't know that Rob was working on a new one too. Does Mal know? I did check this out and Rob appears to have given up on it for now, as per some 2017 posts on another forum. It would appear that the sim TSR 2 suffers from many of the same issues as its real-world version!

Will see what Mal has to show me in terms of the existing FSDS model / VC. Once I get an idea of where it's at right now, I'll have an idea of what can be done with it.

[mal998]

If Rob is working on a new TSR2 then it might make sense to wait for his version rather than start mucking about with Dave's older version.

[WarHorse47]

If Rob is working on a new TSR2 then it might make sense to wait for his version rather than start mucking about with Dave's older version.
Rob has moved entirely to P3D builds with his latest Meteor. I for one would like to see the TSR2 rebuilt for FSXA.

A few weeks ago I played around with porting over my TSR2 from FS9 to FSX and gave up after awhile as some of the gauges just didn't work. The exterior model looked great, but the FDE also needed some tweaking.

Lets keep things to FSX, okay?

[DC1973]

If Rob is working on a new TSR2 then it might make sense to wait for his version rather than start mucking about with Dave's older version.

Well, maybe he'll see this thread and let us know his plans.

[fsafranek]

Rob has moved entirely to P3D builds with his latest Meteor. I for one would like to see the TSR2 rebuilt for FSXA.

A few weeks ago I played around with porting over my TSR2 from FS9 to FSX and gave up after awhile as some of the gauges just didn't work. The exterior model looked great, but the FDE also needed some tweaking.

Lets keep things to FSX, okay?
The gauges are xml based so they should even work in P3Dv4. They do look very dated though -- 14 years since original release. The entire cockpit is very FS9-ish and could use a rebuilding. If it had a separate interior it could be swapped out for something like a Tornado perhaps. Maybe one of the ModelConverterX gurus, lazarus or hschuit, can fix it up a bit.

The external model still looks good and the animations seemed fine. The flight model was a little wishy washy on approach though but I may have still had too much fuel on board.

Have always liked this aircraft. Hopefully it can get a new lease on life.
:ernaehrung004:

[Essex]

First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled (:encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with (:banghead:).

I'd be amazed if these weren't resolvable in MCX.

[mal998]

I've already done some work on the FDE so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. We are starting to set up a work schedule and figure out exactly what needs to be done.

[Bjoern]

Custom XML animation code in FS9 MDL files can be recovered using a hex editor. It's a mess in terms of formatting, but variables and mathematical operators are plain visible.

Not sure how prone Alphasim was to using custom XML code. It could very well be that nose wheel extension was controlled by something trivial, e.g. the default wing fold animation.

[mal998]

I think the nose wheel extension was tagged to the tail hook function.

[robcarrich]

I became really interested in TSR2, reading everything I could find on the subject and was fired up to get the model finished.
The main landing gears are like nothing else on earth, they must weigh tons!
The prototype was nearly lost in a landing gear malfunction.
I could have told the designers that they would have trouble with them but sadly my opinion meant nothing.
After some pain I managed to get them working on the model, to a point.
Although it has the appearance of some sort of futuristic missile on the ground once in simulated air it looks less appealing!
Enthusiasm for the project began to ebb away.
I would have money on it that they realized it was a lost cause and cancelled it for that reason.
I still fly it around the "Mach Loop" from time to time and may go back to it but not in the foreseeable future.

RobR

[Sundog]

If anyone wants to dig deeper, I highly recommend TSR.2, Britain's Lost Bomber (http://www.tsr2.info) by Damien Burke.

[fsafranek]

Custom XML animation code in FS9 MDL files can be recovered using a hex editor. It's a mess in terms of formatting, but variables and mathematical operators are plain visible.

Not sure how prone Alphasim was to using custom XML code. It could very well be that nose wheel extension was controlled by something trivial, e.g. the default wing fold animation.

We weren't at all. The only xml used was in the gauges.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

I think the nose wheel extension was tagged to the tail hook function.
That is correct. And after takeoff you had to remember to reverse it otherwise the gear would extend into the fuselage and be visible.
:ernaehrung004:

[DC1973]

I became really interested in TSR2, reading everything I could find on the subject and was fired up to get the model finished.
The main landing gears are like nothing else on earth, they must weigh tons!
The prototype was nearly lost in a landing gear malfunction.
I could have told the designers that they would have trouble with them but sadly my opinion meant nothing.
After some pain I managed to get them working on the model, to a point.
Although it has the appearance of some sort of futuristic missile on the ground once in simulated air it looks less appealing!
Enthusiasm for the project began to ebb away.
I would have money on it that they realized it was a lost cause and cancelled it for that reason.
I still fly it around the "Mach Loop" from time to time and may go back to it but not in the foreseeable future.

RobR


Thanks for letting us know Rob, looks like we should forge ahead and see what we can do with the TSR 2! For those worried about FSX / P3D compatibility, I'll be able to ensure the model works in both. Did it for the Reporter / P-61C and I don't think there were any issues. Fingers crossed, I can bring in Ambient Occlusion and PBR for the P3D version but still learning those techniques at the moment.

[fallenphoenix1986]

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.

Whats your favourite beer? Theres a case on the way lol

The first two times I ever saw a fighter it was a Jag. First time I was in my uncles car and we overtook one that had been loaded on to the back of a truck. The second time it was a pair in formation screaming through a glen in the West of Scotland below the point at which I was standing, have had a bit of a soft spot for them ever since.

:very_drunk:

[Dev One]

Whats your favourite beer? Theres a case on the way lol

The first two times I ever saw a fighter it was a Jag. First time I was in my uncles car and we overtook one that had been loaded on to the back of a truck. The second time it was a pair in formation screaming through a glen in the West of Scotland below the point at which I was standing, have had a bit of a soft spot for them ever since.

:very_drunk:

Noisiest beasts when one is under one in the low level flying area in Wales, surprises people as well as cattle etc! Wonder what TSR2 sounded like, never heard her although I worked on her for 3 years in the Weybridge D.O.

[fsafranek]

Noisiest beasts when one is under one in the low level flying area in Wales, surprises people as well as cattle etc! Wonder what TSR2 sounded like, never heard her although I worked on her for 3 years in the Weybridge D.O.

They used two Rolls-Royce Olympus engines. Same as was used in the Avro Vulcan V bomber and the Concorde (renamed the Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593). So half of whatever those sounded like?
:ernaehrung004:

[centuryseries]

If it were possible to gauge the level of enthusiasm for the TSR2, I could be persuaded to continue with one I started a while back for FSX and be P3D compatible. :wavey:

[DC1973]

If it were possible to gauge the level of enthusiasm for the TSR2, I could be persuaded to continue with one I started a while back for FSX and be P3D compatible. :wavey:

We've got a good 'un on the roll here - we thought we'd be updating an old FS9 model, but the TSR 2 we've been offered to complete is pretty much payware quality, far more advanced than I'd thought it would be!! Keep watching this space as I'm sure Mitch and others will be updating soon with more news :)

[dhazelgrove]

They used two Rolls-Royce Olympus engines. Same as was used in the Avro Vulcan V bomber and the Concorde (renamed the Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593). So half of whatever those sounded like?
:ernaehrung004:

Exactly like a British Phantom, then.

Dave

[Motormouse]

Exactly like a British Phantom, then.

Dave

Those were Speys on Phantom (fitted enough of them), Olympus is much, much louder.

Ttfn

Pete

[dhazelgrove]

Those were Speys on Phantom (fitted enough of them), Olympus is much, much louder.

Ttfn

Pete

Of course. I was trying not to say "Vulcan".

Dave

[centuryseries]

We've got a good 'un on the roll here - we thought we'd be updating an old FS9 model, but the TSR 2 we've been offered to complete is pretty much payware quality, far more advanced than I'd thought it would be!! Keep watching this space as I'm sure Mitch and others will be updating soon with more news :)

Sounds good, the TSR2 is lacking in FSX and a good one would be very welcome.

[top gun]

would love to see one made for FSX / PR4 please , my all time fav aircraft

[fsafranek]

If it were possible to gauge the level of enthusiasm for the TSR2, I could be persuaded to continue with one I started a while back for FSX and be P3D compatible. :wavey:
Well, about 16 participants here if that's any gauge.
Certainly not enough to make a marketability decision on.
Maybe enough for a decision to go ahead with a free update into FSX?
:ernaehrung004:

[jjdc]

I saw one during testing. Impressive aircraft blind politicians.

Looking forward to it.

John

[mal998]

No worries. We are moving ahead with the TSR2 update.

[DC1973]

Just gonna leave these here, now that the project is officially underway with model-creator Dave Hanvey's encouragement and support... :encouragement:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68253&stc=1 http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68254&stc=1 http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68255&stc=1

[Sundog]

That looks amazing! This is going to be another great release.

[jamminjames]

Put me down for one!

[top gun]

fantastic , I can't wait
well done thank you for your work

[Blackbird686]

She looks superb in her white livery, one of my all time favs, Alpha TSR2. I've had the FS9 model active since I bought it way back. I'll be following this one for sure. :encouragement:

BB686:US-flag:

[Josh Patterson]

Thanks for letting us know Rob, looks like we should forge ahead and see what we can do with the TSR 2! For those worried about FSX / P3D compatibility, I'll be able to ensure the model works in both. Did it for the Reporter / P-61C and I don't think there were any issues. Fingers crossed, I can bring in Ambient Occlusion and PBR for the P3D version but still learning those techniques at the moment. Dean, what is PBR? Every time I see it I think "Pabst Blue Ribbon" and although drinking a few may improve the looks of a dodgey sim your flying skills would degrade accordingly.:gameoff:

[DC1973]

Dean, what is PBR? Every time I see it I think "Pabst Blue Ribbon" and although drinking a few may improve the looks of a dodgey sim your flying skills would degrade accordingly.:gameoff:

LOL! Indeed. PBR stands for Physically Based Rendering, which is just the way in which materials reflect light more realistically in P3D v4. I haven't had the chance to play with it yet, so when the TSR2 is ready for its final compile I will take a look and see if I can't include it in the release. Don't worry though, if I can't the model will still have fully functional bumps, specular maps and all the usual goodies :)

[Josh Patterson]

LOL! Indeed. PBR stands for Physically Based Rendering, which is just the way in which materials reflect light more realistically in P3D v4. I haven't had the chance to play with it yet, so when the TSR2 is ready for its final compile I will take a look and see if I can't include it in the release. Don't worry though, if I can't the model will still have fully functional bumps, specular maps and all the usual goodies :) Thanks for the wee lesson Dean. I am now that much closer to scratching the surface of the stuff I don't know! Maybe one day I'll at least be hopefully successful with my George Laven F-100 paint for the Milviz bird!(Come on, just get one. It's gotta get easier from there, right!?) As it sits the TSR2 in the screenies above work just fine as is for Mr. Patterson! Anything better is just icing on the cake!!

[ian elliot]

I remember'd these from way back, if its for the same bird, these are some great what-if paints to play with. Andy was a regular some years back and then fell of the Radar, but i think Matt is painting real airplane's now

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/81035-Alphasim-BAC-TSR2-Repaint-Pack-1-zip

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/81036-Alphasim-BAC-TSR2-Repaint-Pack-2-zip

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/81037-Alphasim-BAC-TSR2-Repaint-Pack-3-zip

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/81038-Alphasim-BAC-TSR2-Repaint-Pack-4-zip

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/81039-Alphasim-BAC-TSR2-Repaint-Pack-5-zip

[DC1973]

I remember'd these from way back, if its for the same bird, these are some great what-if paints to play with. Andy was a regular some years back and then fell of the Radar, but i think Matt is painting real airplane's now


Wow, what a find Ian! Fingers crossed these work with the new version, it will save a huge amount of time! :) Do you have any contact details for Andy to see if he will let us include them in the package?

[Dev One]

I hope you can modify the cockpit interior colour, it is much too blue. The parts that are blue in some interior photos are I think roundel blue which is the standard colour for experimental parts/units/structure. Flight test equipment & cables were orange. This is so they can be easily identified if/when the aircraft is returned to 'normal'use. If I remember correctly the interior was 'light battleship grey' can't remember the BS number - it is almost 60 years since I was in the Weybridge D.O!
Keith

[ian elliot]

Andy was a SOH member, so a PM maybe,he still might be lurking out there. Matt was good friend with Nigel Richards, so he may know

[hschuit]

Keith, the cockpit interior still has a temporary development (wireframe) texture, painting it is on my to do list.

Henk.


I hope you can modify the cockpit interior colour, it is much too blue. The parts that are blue in some interior photos are I think roundel blue which is the standard colour for experimental parts/units/structure. Flight test equipment & cables were orange. This is so they can be easily identified if/when the aircraft is returned to 'normal'use. If I remember correctly the interior was 'light battleship grey' can't remember the BS number - it is almost 60 years since I was in the Weybridge D.O!
Keith

[Sundog]

There were also all of the repaints (https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=TSR2&CatID=root&Go=Search) by Pierre Lheureux.

[mal998]

We have several photos that chronicle the interior so matching paint shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Regarding additional skins, back in the day, there were 3 packs of add-on skins released by Pierre Lheureux available at AVSIM. I believe they will work in FSX. I have pack 1 installed and they all show up without issue. There were also some paints done by Jens-Ole Kjølberg, so they'll be lots of skins to chose from.

68288

68289

[fsafranek]

Yep, Jens-Ole Kjølberg did a couple nice repaints of it back in the day.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

Wow, what a find Ian! Fingers crossed these work with the new version, it will save a huge amount of time! :) Do you have any contact details for Andy to see if he will let us include them in the package?
They will work. As long as there is no need to change the texture mapping there is no reason for them not to work.

That said, please do not bundle any textures that are readily available elsewhere. It just unnecessarily increases the size of the package.
Mitch can certainly add mention of the textures sets already out there in the readme file along with tested links. Just my 2-cents.
:ernaehrung004:

[DC1973]

They will work. As long as there is no need to change the texture mapping there is no reason for them not to work.

That said, please do not bundle any textures that are readily available elsewhere. It just unnecessarily increases the size of the package.
Mitch can certainly add mention of the textures sets already out there in the readme file along with tested links. Just my 2-cents.
:ernaehrung004:

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking that last night, there's so many of them about which I had no clue that it would create an unnecessarily large package. I'll make sure that we put something in the manual that lets users know there are a ton of textures out there for it.

Regarding the comments on the cockpit area, I'm working on the VC at the moment, and all colours and details are coming from images of the real airplane. Dave's VC for this FSX version, by the way, is fully functional with barely a switch or button not modelled :jump:

[Dev One]

Looking at the cockpit photo in #52, that looks very much like the mockup cockpit - the junction at the cill & windscreen arch is the give away, no shoot bolt locking receptacle or the quadrant infill & pressure seal/ rain ingress gutter, but the colour looks good.
Keith

[mal998]

While we're on the subject of cockpit and panel, if anyone out there has more detailed photos of the cockpit interior (other than the ones that are readily available on the internet) please let us know. We already have the manuals that show us the instruments, what they are and where they are located, but good large color photos are hard to come by.

[Matt Wynn]

i think Matt is painting real airplane's now

real... and virtual, currently working for SimWorks Studios as External Texture Artist (Not done any real jets since the Tonka last year) :wavey:

[DC1973]

Boing boing boing... It's a testimony to the existing FDE that this airplane is tricky to land even when using the officially printed figures. One of the real life test pilots almost stacked the prototype during flight testing, so if they found it tough, what chance us mere mortals?

Reading the manual and following procedure is going to be essential with this one...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68407&stc=1

[Blackbird686]

Fast, Fast, Fast!!! She comes in HOT, DC. At least the FS9 model did. It took me numerous flights to learn how to stick the landing without bouncing all the way down the runway. :dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

[DC1973]

Fast, Fast, Fast!!! She comes in HOT, DC. At least the FS9 model did. It took me numerous flights to learn how to stick the landing without bouncing all the way down the runway. :dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

This was stage 3 flap, 78% power with 12 degree pitch AOA and max elevator up-trim. Touch down was on the numbers at 150 knots indicated but I was just a little light on the flare so off she went boinging along. Touch of power and off we went again for a go-around. It's great fun, especially in VR :encouragement:

[Blackbird686]

It isn't much, but here are a few shots of the interior. Pretty much all grey and white but the seats were a light brown/tan.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6062/6158618692_0321dae4b0.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6188/6158626024_8ecf2600a0_b.jpg

Hope this helps.

BB686:US-flag:

[fsafranek]

This was stage 3 flap, 78% power with 12 degree pitch AOA and max elevator up-trim. Touch down was on the numbers at 150 knots indicated but I was just a little light on the flare so off she went boinging along. Touch of power and off we went again for a go-around. It's great fun, especially in VR :encouragement:
How much fuel were you carrying?
:ernaehrung004:

[DC1973]

It isn't much, but here are a few shots of the interior. Pretty much all grey and white but the seats were a light brown/tan.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6062/6158618692_0321dae4b0.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6188/6158626024_8ecf2600a0_b.jpg

Hope this helps.

BB686:US-flag:

That's brilliant, thanks! :)

[DC1973]

How much fuel were you carrying?
:ernaehrung004:

35%, and the airplane was below max landing weight. Good call though :) It's just a very heavy airplane and the pilot needs to be right on the numbers to get it down just right, which is great to see in a sim as it demands much more than just "light the fires" and go.

[mal998]

Remember, I am in the process of reworking the FDE. It will be flyable and landable. Flight dynamics will be based on original test pilot reports, recollections by Bee Beamont and Jimmy Dell. Both flew the original test flights of the TSR2.

[DC1973]

Remember, I am in the process of reworking the FDE. It will be flyable and landable.

I think that the landing characteristics are actually spot on already. Rudder authority is fine, but both elevator and aileron authority is way too low - roll rate should be higher on an airplane with such a high wing loading and narrow span, while pitch, while it would be weaker, should be better than it currently is. I haven't had much time to test really though as I'm mostly working on the VC.

[Blackbird686]

I did a re-vamp of the FDE for the FS9 TSR2. I wanted to give the model a bit more power without affecting roll rate and landing characteristics. The Pegasus engines used were quite powerful, and based on what little research I could find because of the limited resources available... the end result wasn't much different than the original FDE. The British Aerospace Corporation website had some technical data on the TSR2 that I used for the changes to the FDE.

I also did a visual re-vamp of the afterburner effect for the TSR2 in FS9. It may work in FSX but I never tested it. It came out quite nice. If anyone is interested I would be more than happy to share it.

BB686:US-flag:

[mal998]

As I said, FDE will be based on test pilot recollections. From there if people want to modify what's been done, be my guest.

[FlyingsCool]

I love discussions like this :adoration:

[NOSNILMOT]

A good source of what if colour schemes (and their backstory) is "TSR2 Lost Tomorrows of an Eagle" by Paul Lucas 2009. Also detail on potential weapon loads and future developments.

Not sure how easy it is to find now ....

[Blackbird686]

A good source of what if colour schemes (and their backstory) is "TSR2 Lost Tomorrows of an Eagle" by Paul Lucas 2009. Also detail on potential weapon loads and future developments.

Not sure how easy it is to find now ....

Available here: https://www.amazon.com/BAC-TSR-2-Tomorrows-Eagle-2009-10-24/dp/B01MS1BR9L

BB686:US-flag:

[Josh Patterson]

Boing boing boing... It's a testimony to the existing FDE that this airplane is tricky to land even when using the officially printed figures. One of the real life test pilots almost stacked the prototype during flight testing, so if they found it tough, what chance us mere mortals?

Reading the manual and following procedure is going to be essential with this one...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68407&stc=1 There is an interesting video on YouTube with a camera in the well pointed at the gear during touchdown. Initially the TSR landed with the gear orientated as in the screen shots here. The rear main tyre (It IS a British jet now after all!) would touch down first and twist the entire strut towing out the front wheel so that when it touched down it was at a severe angle to the direction of travel and would twist the strut even further which would then spring back sending vibrations through the ship. The solution presented itself in a malfunctioning gear cycle on flight 7 where the leading tyre touched down first as the bogie was in the "wrong" position. The same thing would happen, but this time the twisting strut skewed the trailing wheel inward so when it touched down it kind of brought everything back in line and the vibrations were reduced. This is how the TSR2 landed from that point on. In any case, the amount of rubbery wigglies the gear exhibited in the slow motion footage is hilarious! Can't wait to see If I can get this in and out of Oshkosh!! This is a lovely shot BTW!

[Josh Patterson]

While we're on the subject of cockpit and panel, if anyone out there has more detailed photos of the cockpit interior (other than the ones that are readily available on the internet) please let us know. We already have the manuals that show us the instruments, what they are and where they are located, but good large color photos are hard to come by. Try TSR2 Britain's Lost Bomber by Damien Burke. Quite a few color shots in there (and it's a really nice read). My favorite is the seat! Natural metal frame, black cushions and PURPLE seat belts!! Clearly they were building this plane for Prince!

[Dev One]

Post #64 seat colour - I think you will find that the seat back & squab cushions were black, the orange/brown effect is reflection from the yellow possibly sodium lighting. Those pictures were obviously of XR219 as there are various panels painted experimental blue.

[noddy]

Would be great to get the Jag back in to the sim.

[Sundog]

Would be great to get the Jag back in to the sim.

That's in DC1973's other post.

[DC1973]

Would be great to get the Jag back in to the sim.

A Jag? In FSX and P3D? Hi-def? It'll never happen. Don't know where this image came from either. Wasn't me guv, honest :)

Won't be ready until late 2019 - early 2020 though so don't hold your breath just yet.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68466&stc=1

[mal998]

I think you're talking about this one. This Jaguar is part of the package that Dave sent us for possible future release. A long way off.

68467

[Sundog]

I think you're talking about this one. This Jaguar is part of the package that Dave sent us for possible future release. A long way off.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68467&stc=1

So do you guys have anything else in the works in the mean time? It's been a long time since we've had any new releases. ;)

[mal998]

Aside from me (not much to do since Virtavia moved on), I'm sure Dean has his hands full with his own releases and the TRS2. Henk always has things on the burner so we have enough to keep us busy. Depending on how well the TRS2 ends up we'll have to wait to see what might be next. There are only so many hours in the day with so much to do and the fact that building these planes takes so much damn time it's a wonder anything gets done at all. As always patience is the watchword.

[Sundog]

Aside from me (not much to do since Virtavia moved on), I'm sure Dean has his hands full with his own releases and the TRS2. Henk always has things on the burner so we have enough to keep us busy. Depending on how well the TRS2 ends up we'll have to wait to see what might be next. There are only so many hours in the day with so much to do and the fact that building these planes takes so much damn time it's a wonder anything gets done at all. As always patience is the watchword.

I didn't realize you weren't with Virtavia anymore, as that's what I was referencing. Thanks for the info.

[mal998]

What's that old saying; I didn't leave Virtavia, Virtavia left me. Phil went off to pursue other creative endeavors. If he decides to build planes again I suppose I will once again create the flight dynamics for them.

[harrybasset]

I am using the revised FDE from mal998, thank you. The panel is much improved. Has anyone overcome the Concorde vizor problem to get the weapons fits working?

[kelsh003]

Slight bump here...wow, I didn't realize an updated TSR2 was possibly in the works! Any further word on this project?

[mal998]

Unfortunately we were never able to get the updates off the ground (no pun intended). The thing that needed the most work was the VC and we weren't able to get it done. Real life got in the way.