Microsoft Flight Simulator X

[JakemasterD77]

IT HAS BEEN PREVIEWED, THE NEXT VERSION OF FS, FSX This is so exciting! It was posted on SimV, and this is definately credible, its from PC Gamer magazine!

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/fsxmobe.jpg

And, due sooner than you'd think, February!

[DaveKDEN]

If true, very interesting and exciting. Seems kind of funny to announce a new version in such a way though. Regardless, I'm certain to be one of the first in line when it does come out.

[warbirdlover]

I hope this isn't going to the "fish-eye" look!!! I absolutely hate that. Like reality isn't good enough so we have to "enhance" it.

:icon_eek:

[Ken Stallings]

Not only that, and I hate to say it, but the preview screenshot in that banner ad gives me reason for concern, but this is also a good time to think about holding off on expensive payware until you can answer a few questions:

1. Will said payware for FS2004 be compatible for FSX?

2. If it is not, then will you be happy continuing to play FS2004?

If the answer to either question is, "yes," then purchase on.

But for me, now that we see indications the next generation is only a few months away, that puts the lid on my own purchases unless I can get a reasonable "yes" on the first question.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ken Stallings]

However, if what is promised for FSX is delivered, then it will be very nice indeed! :mixedsmi:

Already, there must be some difference from the engine used on CFS3 because in that game, true world-wide flying was impossible to render. So, that gives me a bit more optimism with regard to the absence of the dreaded fisheye lens look.

Cheers,

Ken

[Ickie]

hummm, it says version 11, what happened to 10?

[Ken Stallings]

Hmmm ... excellent observation!

[Sailor]

And how many comps used by the ones here can run it? Will your present comp do ok or be brought to it's knees?

[MCDesigns]

default Beaver and Goose, interesting! If this is true, the dynamic world part is what interests me, finally!

If it is released in Feb, how can it take advantage of Vista features???

[Ken Stallings]

I think if it is released ahead of the new O/S, then it will be backward compatible with at least Windows XP. However, more likely than not, to unlock the full potential -- whatever that is -- one is required to upgrade to Windows Vista.

Can you say, "product upgrade marketing strategy?" :costumes:

Ken

[Helldiver]

Well I tried it in a Spitfire in FS9 and I couldn't get that fisheye look. If that's the way planes will be rendered in FSX I will definetly stay with FS9. I hope that was a gimmicked up picture and not illustrative of what the new Flight Simulator will deliver.

It's rather strange, from a marketing standpoint, that they would be delivering it at this time of the year. Perhaps the original delivery date may have been just before Christmas.

[AckAck]

It doesn't actually say it is version 11, it says 10. (Air-sickness bag comes with version 11). Although I wondered that for a second too.

Brian

[Panther_99FS]

hummm, it says version 11, what happened to 10?

It says "10" on the cover here--> http://www.pcgamer.com/inthisissue.html (http://www.pcgamer.com/inthisissue.html)

[Panther_99FS]

I like the "AI Herds of wild animals" and AI moving vehicles :)

[MCDesigns]

To get that fisheye look in FS9, simply go to view tab and decrease the distance to your aircraft and then back out a notch, instant fisheye! LOL I agree, hate that look.

[Death_Eagle_571]

w000000t!!!!

[DaveKDEN]

Wouldn't read too much about the "look" of any version based on such a rough (and grainy) preview picture. Probably not even a game rendered picture. Looks to me more like an artist's conception.

[Snuffy]

Still can't shoot or drop damagable bomb loads. :banghead:

[Silver Fox]

I would imagine full compatability with "true" FS9 models. Those models actually built to FS 2002 standards may be in trouble though.

The big difference will be bump mapping, re-texturing of older models may be a really big thing with the new version.

The dynamic world sounds very cool!

[JakemasterD77]

If its all true, Im sure we'll be hearing a lot more pretty soon.

[gary20]

It wont be on my shopping list if it does ship with the fisheye look.

That picture from the magazine sure looks like it does ............

[Tom Clayton]

My only question is this - the way I understand "bumpmapping" is that it uses the Alpha channel in the texture. If this is accurate, how will you handle chromed parts on the model that are now done with Alpha?

[Ken Stallings]

Duh!

In hindsight, it seems so clear. The "X" is not experimental. It's the Roman numeral for 10! :redf:

Ken

[Prowler1111]

Tom:
Perhpas we should be on the wait for the SDK´s...i wonder what´s new under the hood in this sim, bumbmapping is a certain mod, but perhpas there is a new exporter .dll?

Best regards
Prowler

[JakemasterD77]

I would imagine that it would have full backwards compatibility with FS9 stuff, especially if Microsoft has learned anything from CFS3. FS2002 planes (the ones that are fully compatible now) may be like older ones in FS( where certain things like the prop dont show. Senery may be another story, as with the dynamic scenery not only will it be completely different, but will be a whole new challenge for scenery designers. I still hope that an active camera like utility is included, which seems to be the case because of the fisheye (using f1 view you can scroll in then zoom out to get fisheye). Im sure it will need power, but if you turn settings down (like autogen from dense to normal or sparse) youd handle it fine. If you look at the requred specs for 2004 they are a LOT lower than what many of us have and what you really need, so I guess that'll be a base is if it requres what we have now we may be screwed. No matter what it will be good, ms has spent almost 3 years working on it, so I doubt it will be any less than great. I just hope the DC-3 is still included

[Wulf190]

........great, wonder what monster PC is going to be required for FSX.:censored:

[CWD]

*Strong feeling of melancholy*

[PRB]

AI wild animals! That's funny. On the other hand, Janes WWII Fighters had that ten years ago, and VCs too. But nobody even remembers that fine product. Cutting edge it was, ahead of it's time, but that's another thread. FSX (10) looks like it will be really something. I'll wait to see what sort of processing power is needed, then build another computer for it :)

- Paul

[Death_Eagle_571]

Yeah, same here, I plan to upgrade around that time too...

[LonelyplanetXO]

I wonder if their "bump-mapping" is anything like what I've been using for a while with repaints? Take a look at the Alpha Channel on Roberts Sea Hurricane (shiny versions) at the rivets along the fuselage - or a better example; my "Sea Bee Air" repaint of Bill Lyons Goose. I made the rivets and some panel lines appear 3d simply by manipulating the alpha channels; an idea "adapted" from Bill Lyons work. In the latter case, I was experimenting with the technique and overdid it somewhat. The panel lines & rivets appear only on the alphas - they're not rendered in the texture files at all.

As for FSX, Ken's rather cynical "can you say "product upgrade marketing strategy?" is about right in my view. Although i imagine it will be a fabulous leap forward, I can't see myself spending $4000 on a new PC to run it, now or ever. I've discovered overseas holidays are a better investment :), plus I have less & less free time these days. So unless it runs _really_ well on an AMD 3200 I'll be flying FS9 for a while yet.
Still, never say never :)

LPXO

[warbirdlover]

I'm betting you can make stuff work for both fs9 and this one probably using different makemdl programs? We're going to have a couple of planes finished up about then.

[wombat666]

........great, wonder what monster PC is going to be required for FSX.:censored:

Any of the current generation boards capable of handling the present upper level CPU series (reading between the lines!) should be fine, but I'll bet a PCI Express card will be a "must have"!:icon_eek:

I will certainly refrain from buying version 1 until the usual crop of MS bugs that come free are sorted.:d

[huub vink]

Hmmm, I can't help it, but my first thought was "at last". When developers start making thing for FS10, I don't have to worry about all those new releases and will finally find the time to fly all those beautiful aircrafts made for FS9. :isadizzy:

Huub

[Gdavis101]

You know what I find funny. is that MS chooses to make these "announcements" in magazines like PC GAMER, not that there is anything wrong with it as I used to be a subscriber, but why don't they make these announcements on dedicated Flightsim sites? I gave up on most other PC GAMES simply because they all started looking the same..

I guess I will have to buy that new computer when FS X gets released, I sure hope its backwards compatible though!

[michaelblackbird]

Hello

Anyway, I find that the software title is a good choice : X for ten in roman style, X for secret.....

Well done !
But I'm very septic on the news ?????

Bye

[Ferry_vO]

Sounds interesting, but of course rumours of FS10 have been around since the day Fs9 was released. ;)

It will be good to see that the next version can take full advantage of the current (and next) generation of videocards. Anyone that has recently played some of the new games like Call of Duty 2, Fear and others knows what is possible. The current version of flightsim relies to much on CPU power.

I'd say you'll need at least a 2.0 ghz processor, 512 mb ram a Dx 9.0C compliant videocard and win XP to run it though, looking at the demands for the newest games.

And like most, I hope Fs10 is compatible with aircraft and mesh made for Fs9.
You would probably miss a few 'special effects' with the old aircraft though.

[gerard]

I wonder if their "bump-mapping" is anything like what I've been using for a while with repaints?

It is my understanding (and hope) that X will use "normal mapping" instead of conventional (and butt ugly) bump mapping. With normal mapping you can "bake" the surface detail of multi-million polygon meshes into a special texture and use that on a low-poly mesh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping

Unfortunately, you need sophisticated 3D software to generate normal maps so gmax and FSDS are out of the question. MS might have worked out a method to do simple stuff like rivets and panel lines with paint programs though. Conventional bump mapping is based on 8bit grayscale images BTW.

Some thoughts:

- Everything mentioned in the article can be done in DirectX 9

- DirectX 10 is not compatible with 9

gh

[Ickie]

here is the cover of pc gamer and it has a referance to FS10

[Prowler1111]

Wll, ABACUS just released their last version of FSDS, and also some new scenery design software, wonder how much such a big company like them (they are big, regardless of their aircraft addon quality, not under discussion here)are taking about all this new anouncement.I Think there won´t be a dramatic change on aircraft design(in fact, i think there will be a gmax included there, only that this time the sim itslef pay the admision fee)but there will be the way the sim handles sceneries(no, it´s not wishfull thinking), and then again, i still don´t think there will be dramatic changes on design.
It will be good to see that the next version can take full advantage of the current (and next) generation of videocards. Anyone that has recently played some of the new games like Call of Duty 2, Fear and others knows what is possible. The current version of flightsim relies to much on CPU power. <--that´s what to expect, IMHO.

Best regards
Prowler

[Stove_Pipe31]

The Bridges !!!! What about the Bridges ?????????????? ( sarcasm )

:censored: :costumes:

Figure I would jump the gun before anyone else dose.......... :d

[MCDesigns]

I wonder if their "bump-mapping" is anything like what I've been using for a while with repaints? Take a look at the Alpha Channel on Roberts Sea Hurricane (shiny versions) at the rivets along the fuselage - or a better example; my "Sea Bee Air" repaint of Bill Lyons Goose. I made the rivets and some panel lines appear 3d simply by manipulating the alpha channels; an idea "adapted" from Bill Lyons work. In the latter case, I was experimenting with the technique and overdid it somewhat. The panel lines & rivets appear only on the alphas - they're not rendered in the texture files at all.

LPXO

It's a different procedure. Since the current reflective properties are enabled using the alpha, they will probably enable the use of a reflect map texture for the shine now and then you'll use a "normal" map texture for the bumpmapping, which has the same grey scale as a alpha texture but is used (programmed) differently. I do a lot of SIMS2 designs and they use the reflect map as well as the normal map and the amount of detail you can achieve using it is pretty amazing. (ie making painted on jewelry look like it is 3D)

In SIMS2 you can enable the specular , reflective, transparent, etc properties of an object in a CFG so to speak rather than imbedded in the MDL as it is now for FS. Would be awesome if they did this in the new version to where you can change properties in either the CFG or another area on the fly.

I feel the bumpmapping will have more uses in scenery design rather than aircraft.

[crashaz]

From what I remember from the Avsim convention, I believe the bump mapping is accomplished by another channel in the texture. Feel free to jump in here Dave (Ridge).

(* Edit to not contribute to more rumors LOL! *)

Yeah I too am confused about using PC Gamer to announce the news. I figured it would go this year... but February!?! Maybe some marketing weenie made a mistake... and now the developers are smacking their heads :isadizzy: back in Redmond going... oh crap... promise the world and now we have to deliver in this timeline. It happens in the software world all the time... you could say I have had a little experience with the inside life of a software company. :d

[Ridge]

All modeling up to date has had around a dozen textures, only 3 of which have actually been useful:

Diffuse: Basic texture, what you see in the daylight
Light: Just what it seems, the night texture
Alpha: Reflection

Bump: 3d texture added to the model (only been useful in programs like 3ds Max up till now)

What has me worried is novice developers will mix those up, leading to perfectly smooth aircraft with reflection maps that look like a wet basketballs...

[WilliamS]

hummm, it says version 11, what happened to 10?

It says "has got everything BUT the air sickness bag" "that comes with ver. 11"
meaning the air sickness bag is not included with 10, will be in ver 11. (I know it wont, but just pointing out the the way it was meant).

Regards
Ben Williams

[PilatusTurbo]

Hey All, personally I'm a little disappointed. After all the fiascos that came with FS9 back in July of '03, we're all in for more, yet again. I would suggest to all, keep FS9. FS10 will be very enhanced, and you'll also need an incredibly enhanced system. That was so funny about FS9, "We have updated Weather and Clouds"... That will murder your FPS on ANY system you have. The textures and mountains simply weren't upgraded from FS8, They should have upgraded the things they are doing for FS10, for FS9.

1. Will said payware for FS2004 be compatible for FSX?

Negative Mate, or at least it will be a while for mediocre upgrades. Same thing happened after FS2004 came out. I was waiting for a few big Payware upgrades, but MS did not release the SDK's until 5 or 6 months after release. And when they did, Payware companies hardly "Updated" anything at all. My Lago F-16 was and is useless in FS2004, My Cessna 421 doesn't really have an updated VC either. The Lago F-16 was the ONLY craft I ever flew from the 2D only, the update made things bad. The 2D no longer had gorgeous fluid Frames like it did in FS2002, instead it had a horrible 5-10 FPS, for me. The Update only ruined the plane.

I understand payware companies have to spend time on new products and not just free updates, but just consider any payware you buy for that simulator, for that simulator ONLY. Just about every payware from FS2002 I had, does not fly with me in FS2004. Bill and Lynn Lyons stuff shows incredible cross compatibility, only few paywares from FS2002 I can still run, their beautiful STA.

I think FS9 is the last simulator I will fly, I don't have money for a new computer, which I almost guarantee will be needed for this New FS. They may say all you need is a 400 Mhz PIII for FS9, and that is all you need, for 3 FPS. :d :d New graphics engine will be nice, but it'll also mean new memory, processor, and graphics card required. If it were 49.99 or less I'd actually consider buying it, but not for over 50 bucks. I'd also consider if I knew these performance issues weren't there and I actually could run it. Am I going to go out and buy it hoping I can run it, No. If there were some kind of demo or trial version, where you could see a mountain range, test a weather theme and all, I'd be right there like we all would. Like I said, I'm not going to "Buy and Try" and end up having a game that I can't run. Call of Duty 2 is out, and the demo ran nicely for me.

Just my two cents

[MCDesigns]

PT, sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I don't remember any kind of fiasco when FS9 was released, I installed day one, got better performance than I had in FS2002 with the same hardware and a week later, after comparing, FS2002 was history. The F1 cessna 421 is one of my fav aircraft and works fine for me. If you are referring to the new XML/3d smooth gauge technology, I don't believe that info is directly in the SDK anyway, or I think it would have shown up faster and in more designs.

I am as much about eye candy in the sim (which I feel is necessary) as I am about systems modeling. I feel that no matter how realistic you make the FD, you still lose one important thing in the sim you have in the real world, a danger of dying while flying, which gives you a totally different perspective and mind set. So in essence, I feel they should improve more on the actual world around you in the sim moreso that the systems.

While I do have issues with perfromance in bad weather, I think it is unfair to "assume" that you'll need to run out and upgrade to enjoy the newest version, I know I didn't for FS9. We'll just have to wait and see what happens and hope for the best. I just upgraded, more for my design applications (3DSMax, Poser, Bryce) which take more resources than Fs9, so I don't like the idea of having to do it again so soon either, but we'll see.

[PilatusTurbo]

Hey MC, how's it going mate? I wasn't referring to the smooth gauge tech, although that is nice.

Just the fact that the 421 did not and still doesn't have a clickable VC, neither does the P-38, and it's still one of my favorite planes. There were a couple payware upgrades I was looking for, but they just didn't meet my expectations. I'm sorry if my expectations were too high, they must've been. All I wanted for my LAGO F-16 was the 2D panel to be as smooth as it was for FS2002. Now the 2D panel stutters all the time, and the VC, I never used because you can't read any of the HUD info at less than 1.00 zoom, and the MSFS VC Hud was and is now stone age slow at updating.

I haven't upgraded my PC other than Mem and Vid card since before FS2002. I'll be getting a job in Summer '06 when my Mom can be more independant and help herself more, when I have job money saved up I may get a new computer then. That's one reason I have no money, except for an under 20$ payware, once in a while. I live with my Mum and she's got MS, she has trouble doing things. After an operation she's supposed to have, she should be doing a lot better.

Thanks again All

[CWD]

So, could bump map textures concievably be added to current aircraft imported to FSX to achieve the same effect?

[Prowler1111]

So, could bump map textures concievably be added to current aircraft imported to FSX to achieve the same effect?

I think you need the source to do that..or some HEX editing

Best regards
Prowler

[Silver Fox]

It is conceivable that bump maps could be added to existing aircraft...but it will depend on how they are enabled in the sim.

Case 1: Bump maps are a texture function only. This would mean that the only thing needed to add bump mapping is to create a new texture file in the required format.

Case 2: Bump maps are a texture function that needs the .mdl filed to be compiled with a "Has Bump Mapping" flag set. In this case re-compiling the model would be required before bump maps would work.

A lot will depend on how the original plane was made and on what MS does to change the texture formats. It might be that bump maps can only be added by sacrificing something else in older models. This will mean, of course, that some models will be suitable for upgrades and some will not be suitable.

[RickN]

If you can not blow anything up, why bother???? :d:d

[Overshoe]

Interesting, all this excitement and all these thoughts about something that Microsoft has not announced. I'll wait I guess...

[Silver Fox]

If you can not blow anything up, why bother???? :d :d :d

I would submit that Panther has definitively proven that blowing things up (at least yourself) is quite possible in FS.

:isadizzy:

[Ridge]

Quite right!

[Cazzie]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/cazmodel/woot.jpg

Here's a "woot" for the OH.

God, back to the computer store, time for the 7800, another 1024 SDRAM and maybe even a new motherboard and processor. Might as well wait for MS Vista though. I'm sure it'll run on XP SP2, but to take advantage of all the new features, I'm sure the Vista O/S will be needed.

Oooh, the flying gods are at it again, OFF, FSGW3, all the goodies by people like this SOH gang that have made FS 9 such a truly wonderful flight experience. No put down on OFF, I have to get my frustrations out by pullin' a trigger every now and then. But there is no flight sim that has ever been so much of a thrill as the Flight Sim series since FS 98. Sure, I'll get FS X, but I shall keep FS 9, because I can now fly in it at decent frame rates with all my sliders maxed. I bet there is no way I can do that with FS X, heck I can only push 3s in OFF. These graphics are starting to get serious.

Cazzie

[WuhWuzDat]

Interesting, all this excitement and all these thoughts about something that Microsoft has not announced. I'll wait I guess...

I quite agree, Tom!
IF & WHEN Microsoft decides to actually announce this product, this forum will become useful.
Until that point, I'll be in the FS9 forum, where (simulated , non-hypothetical) reality still rules.

February? LOL, I'll let Dilbert speak for me on that!

http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20051211.html

Jeff

[Roger]

I'd be a little surprised if Microsoft decided to use PCGamer to announce Fs10. It's just too hokey. A few beta leaks or some BIG smilies from the team but PC Gamer??? huh???

If this is now Microsoft's route to market then I'd wonder what it's worth?

[Henry]

If this is now Microsoft's route to market then I'd wonder what it's worth?
upgrading to xp:wiggle:
LOL
H

[Willy]

The following is my own personal opinion and in no way to be taken as the position of Sim Outhouse.

I'm also waiting for official word from "on high" at Redmond. Until Microsoft makes an official announcement, anything else is just rumour.

After my experience with CFS 3, I'll wait until FS X is out a while and then decide on it. I did buy FS 9 within a couple of days of it's release, but I'm not sure my current machine could handle what all the rumored stuff FS X is purporting to have.


I've a lot of time and effort into my ongoing custom rebuild of FS 2004 into FS 1954. I'm very likely to stay with it for quite some time to come. There's still some folks flying CFS 1 & FS98 now, so FS 9 should be good for a while yet ;)

[Panther_99FS]

There's a guy I know that I'm quite sure is a FS-10 beta tester (though he's never told me and I've never asked him)

Anyways, he says that part of it is rubbish, Microsoft is catering to PCGAMER or someone has breached their NDA.

Make your own conclusions.....

[RickN]

The following is my own personal opinion and in no way to be taken as the position of Sim Outhouse.

I'm also waiting for official word from "on high" at Redmond. Until Microsoft makes an official announcement, anything else is just rumour.

After my experience with CFS 3, I'll wait until FS X is out a while and then decide on it. I did buy FS 9 within a couple of days of it's release, but I'm not sure my current machine could handle what all the rumored stuff FS X is purporting to have.


I've a lot of time and effort into my ongoing custom rebuild of FS 2004 into FS 1954. I'm very likely to stay with it for quite some time to come. There's still some folks flying CFS 1 & FS98 now, so FS 9 should be good for a while yet ;)

I am one of those still flying CFS1 and there is still a lot of life in the old girl. Of course I also fly CFS2 and soon as I get time I will be flying OFF. ( also known as CFS3 )

[ceechow]

Played FS since FS 2.0...Have FS 98,2000,2002 and 2004,CFS1,CFS2,and CFS3 along with Korean Skies and OFF...Microsoft could put the fish eye pespective in and stuff the CD or DVD into a brown paper bag and sell it for $50 and I would still get it because,it's a MicroSoft Flight sim. I have spent so many enjoyable hours flying and fighting in their sims,there is no doubt in my mind that,I would be spending hours with this version too. BRING IT ON MICROSOFT!!!

[ceechow]

Oh BTW..I am sure you guys with older systems will have to go out and upgrade to play this...FS has always pushed the edge. Start saving now..or just buy one piece at a time...before you know it,you'll have a new comp.This sort of thing is to be expected...I guess I should break out my old PIII with 128MB of RAM,PCI Voodoo5.5 Vid card,and try and play Half life 2 on it. C'mon people get real...upgrade.

[Mike]

Hah haha sorry but I just read all the previous posts and stuff... come on fellas!! Your favourite sim ( FS2004 junkies anyway ) is about to see a huge upgrade. Whenever it is, I doubt february - which means poor Ken wont be getting any more payware for the whole of 2006 :P.

I will bet you any money that as soon as some of the early adopters( Panther I reckon will be the first person in the entire world to have it :) ) get it and start posting screenshots we'll all be clammerin' to get ourselves a copy and then all the " how do i tweak this to work on my ... " type of threads will start up. See it happened for fs2004 and it will happen again. We cant help ourselves. All the belly aching over the fisheye in CFS3 was all good and well but we all still bought it ! And we will all still buy FSX.

I say bring on FSX with all its bumpnoxious, hdri bloom effecticiously, billionpolygonial, bring-my-computer-to-its-knees, herds of buffaloes going buckwild, goodness.

:female: cos i dont know how else i was going to use this icon.

[foreigndevil]

I like the "AI Herds of wild animals" and AI moving vehicles :)
Will we get AI traffic jams? The herds of wild animals will probably be cows with mad cow disease!:d

[egypt]

..........YAY MIKE hahahahahahaha i agree:costumes:

..and all the time we can still "FLY" maxed out on FS2002

........whatever it is??? its goin to be angled at whatever op sys that M$ IS pluggin mates.

.........(life(ms) is like a box of choklits.....forest gump)