DC Designs Northrop P-61C Black Widow RELEASED

[DC1973]

Hi folks,

The P-61C has now been uploaded here in the FSX Military Props category! Enjoy the airplane, hope it lives up to expectations! :)

[Switchblade408]

I don't see it...... I might have to wait a little bit

[DC1973]

I don't see it...... I might have to wait a little bit

The admins have to clear it first, shouldn't take too long hopefully.

ETA: just got confirmation that it should now be live for download! :)

[thefrog]

It's there - downloading now!

[DaveWG]

Congratulations on release Dean. :applause:
Downloading now...

[Flyboy208]

Thank you so much Dean ! Looking forward to logging some Black Widow time tonight. Mike :ernaehrung004:

[Switchblade408]

There it is! Thank you so much for this!

[MrZippy]

Odd! As it sits (or tries to sit) on the runway, it's bouncing around and the props are trying to spin with stop and go engine sounds and my Sim starts in a cold and dark scenario. Lets see if others have any problems like this! The Recorder was perfect in every sense.

Other than that....Nice looking aircraft!:applause:

I will try another test with more fuel in each tank. I had very little fuel on board for the first test.

[DC1973]

Odd! As it sits (or tries to sit) on the runway, it's bouncing around and the props are trying to spin with stop and go engine sounds and my Sim starts in a cold and dark scenario. Lets see if others have any problems like this! The Recorder was perfect in every sense.

Other than that....Nice looking aircraft!:applause:

I will try another test with more fuel in each tank. I had very little fuel on board for the first test.

Wow, sounds very odd! Not happening for me or the testers - let us know how it goes!

[warchild]

Odd! As it sits (or tries to sit) on the runway, it's bouncing around and the props are trying to spin with stop and go engine sounds and my Sim starts in a cold and dark scenario. Lets see if others have any problems like this! The Recorder was perfect in every sense.

Other than that....Nice looking aircraft!:applause:

I will try another test with more fuel in each tank. I had very little fuel on board for the first test.

thats a contaact point issue..
are yyou using p3d or fsx?? I need to know so i can troubleshoot it properly..

[MrZippy]

thats a contaact point issue..
are you using p3d or fsx?? I need to know so i can troubleshoot it properly..



FSX no Acceleration. I did try the contact points from the Recorder with no success. I can get the engines running but really weird going down the runway and no takeoff other than being buried tail first into the ground.

Thanks for checking this out for me, Pam!:wavey:

[warchild]

FSX no Acceleration. I did try the contact points from the Recorder with no success. I can get the engines running but really weird going down the runway and no takeoff other than being buried tail first into the ground.

Thanks for checking this out for me, Pam!:wavey:

glad to do it.. :)
Just did a quick and dirty out of san jose in fsx: se and saw no ill effects.SO, that tells me theres something deeper happening. its still a contact point issue and it appears from your description you have a CG issue as well, which you would have with the reporters fde. Truth told, the two planes only look alike. So, lets get some basic data first so i can build up a test here..
I'd like to ask:

What airport are you using?
Does it happen on other airports?
are you using third party landclass or scenery??

For the moment, switch back to the fde provided in the download ( both air file and config ), and we'll find a way to duplicate the problem on my end.. OK??
Get you up and running as quickly and painlessly as possible.. :)

aOH, and would you copy and paste the entirety of your [contacts] section of the aircraft.cfg file here for me please?? might need [weights and balance] as well.
Thanks..
Pam

[Mike71]

Quick and dirty - seems great in FSX-SE / Windows 10. Thanks!

[MrZippy]

glad to do it.. :)
Just did a quick and dirty out of san jose in fsx: se and saw no ill effects.SO, that tells me theres something deeper happening. its still a contact point issue and it appears from your description you have a CG issue as well, which you would have with the reporters fde. Truth told, the two planes only look alike. So, lets get some basic data first so i can build up a test here..
I'd like to ask:

What airport are you using?
Does it happen on other airports?
are you using third party landclass or scenery??

For the moment, switch back to the fde provided in the download ( both air file and config ), and we'll find a way to duplicate the problem on my end.. OK??
Get you up and running as quickly and painlessly as possible.. :)

aOH, and would you copy and paste the entirety of your [contacts] section of the aircraft.cfg file here for me please?? might need [weights and balance] as well.
Thanks..
Pam

https://youtu.be/q5bWD1F9-7A I did a quick YouWHoo video of what it does.

[contact_points] //NWS
//0 Class <0=none,1=wheel, 2=scrape, 3=float>
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

static_pitch = 1.35
static_cg_height = 7.83
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 1
max_number_of_points = 12
// #0 #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #8 #9 #10 #11 #12 #13 # #

point.0 = 1, -7.261, 0.000, -7.450, 2000, 0, 2.75, 45.000, 0.148, 1.863, 12.980, 6.000, 2.500, 0, 175.0, 190.0
point.1 = 1, -22.197, -8.750, -7.58300, 2000, 1, 3.90, 0.000, 0.128, 2.670, 0.800, 7.000, 7.000, 2, 175.0, 190.0
point.2 = 1, -22.197, 8.750, -7.58300, 2000, 2, 3.90, 0.000, 0.128, 2.670, 0.800, 9.000, 10.000, 3, 175.0, 190.0
point.3 = 2, -20.631,-33.000, 3.000, 0, 0, 0.00, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0, 0, 0
point.4 = 2, -20.631, 33.000, 3.000, 0, 0, 0.00, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0, 0, 0
point.5 = 4, -38.631, 0.000, 5.000, 0, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9
point.6 = 4, -10.631, 0.000, 0.000, 0, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.7 = 4, -48.631, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 9
point.8 = 4, -7.631, 0, -3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 4
point.9 = 4, -25, 0, -3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4
point.10 = 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4


Airport is L08 Borrego Valley airport in California. I'll try another airport. I only changed contact points, no FDE.

[warchild]

i'm glad you made that video. Thank you!.. That doesnt appear the way i imagined it would. Theres something beyond just the contact points happening there..
May I ask, whos 3rd party photoreal scenery are you using?? and, would you please load in a different aircraft to that same airport to see if you get the same result. I'm sure you wont but at least we can eliminate that possibility

ok, I'm gonna put this out there. I see a lot of very knowlegeable and wonderful people in the room. I'm asking you to watch skippys short vid and tell me if you have ever seen anything like that before..
Engines arent connected with contact points and yet there they sit, spinning like a happy top.. It's almost like something else is sending commands to the aircraft. FSUIPC??? I use it too. Sim connect??? Did Sim connect run on XP?? Tac-Pak?? I know Dean set it up to use it. FS9?? yeah, i know, thats a stretch, but FS9 had a habit of moving things like airports. We used the same model for interior and exterior so its concievable that a second model is being superimposed over the first and offset by some marginal amount.. I just dont know and i would appreciate opinions..
Thanks :)

[MrZippy]

i'm glad you made that video. Thank you!.. That doesnt appear the way i imagined it would. Theres something beyond just the contact points happening there..
May I ask, whos 3rd party photoreal scenery are you using?? and, would you please load in a different aircraft to that same airport to see if you get the same result. I'm sure you wont but at least we can eliminate that possibility

Once again, thanks for the help on this! It does it at all airports that I've tried.....all default, no addons. Borrego Valley is my test airport for all aircraft that I fly. I usually do a circuit around the area and then land back on the same runway. All other aircraft are fine there. I think it's part of Bluesky photoreal.

[warchild]

Once again, thanks for the help on this! It does it at all airports that I've tried.....all default, no addons. Borrego Valley is my test airport for all aircraft that I fly. I usually do a circuit around the area and then land back on the same runway. All other aircraft are fine there. I think it's part of Bluesky photoreal.

aThanks Zippy.. it seems we have a mystery. As I said above, this doesnt look like it's just contact points; at least not with those spinning engines.
Now, I know its no help, but i have two versions of the plane on my computer. There's the dev version in p3dv4 which i built the fde on, and theres the release version in FSX. I'm running FSFX and in P3D i also run UT-Live. and Envtex and envdir in both, and i/'m not seeing anything at all, but there is something unique about this aircraft, that your flight sim doesnt like, and i want to know what it is just as much as you do.. bear with me and thanks for your patience and cooperation. Its greatly appreciated..

what happens if you turn off Bluesky for a quick test???

[warchild]

Decisions decisions..
MrZippy?? I'm going to do something here i dont normally do, but i need a base line..
I have a model thats 5 years old. It's still a WIP but it's being completely revamped by the artist, and is therefore out of date. I want you to download this model and fly it, and tell me what happens.. Its identical FDE wise to the current P-61C except about 70 mph slower and with some changes due too difference in scaling.. Please do not share it.. URL is in the PM i'll send in a moment..
Pam

[Mario Donadon]

show, magnificent, I have no words


https://i.imgur.com/FezME7S.png

[MrZippy]

Decisions decisions..
MrZippy?? I'm going to do something here i dont normally do, but i need a base line..
I have a model thats 5 years old. It's still a WIP but it's being completely revamped by the artist, and is therefore out of date. I want you to download this model and fly it, and tell me what happens.. Its identical FDE wise to the current P-61C except about 70 mph slower and with some changes due too difference in scaling.. Please do not share it.. URL is in the PM i'll send in a moment..
Pam

Thanks, Pam.....Done and did and sent the results in a PM. Test flight is a success!

Also tried Milton's A20G and Manfred's B50 at L08 and they were perfect and no prop oscillations.

[Sundog]

Thanks Dean, I should get a chance to fly it this week. :) I have work to finish for a P-47 Decal Sheet, first.

[SH427]

Just flew a short hop and she flies like a charm! Just a couple niggles about switches

The landing lights can be extended but I can't turn them on, no switch and no taxi light, most switches on the left hand panel appear to be inverted (battery, avionics, engine start switches are on energize when they aren't going and switch to "off" to start, same with fuel pumps)

Otherwise, shes a gem!
Pam, I see what you mean about the wonky takeoff settings, you can feel the weight of those props in the throttle. You should be proud of your FDE work, it feels great!

[warchild]

Thanks, Pam.....Done and did and sent the results in a PM. Test flight is a success!

Also tried Milton's A20G and Manfred's B50 at L08 and they were perfect and no prop oscillations.

Awesome..
OK, so what this means, since the FDE for the zP-61C is a modification of the one i had you download, is that my next step is to put the two side by side and figure out which difference is causing the issue.. This may talke a couple days.. Bear with me :)..

[Seahawk72s]

I see Shift>E opens the RO hatch.
Is there a forward hatch between pilot & gunner..?

[warchild]

Yes there is. It also opens with Shift-E

[Seahawk72s]

Yes there is. It also opens with Shift-E

Wow, missed that, thanks...

[Seahawk72s]

Just flew a short hop and she flies like a charm! Just a couple niggles about switches

The landing lights can be extended but I can't turn them on, no switch and no taxi light, most switches on the left hand panel appear to be inverted (battery, avionics, engine start switches are on energize when they aren't going and switch to "off" to start, same with fuel pumps)

Otherwise, shes a gem!
Pam, I see what you mean about the wonky takeoff settings, you can feel the weight of those props in the throttle. You should be proud of your FDE work, it feels great!

Landing lights in aircraft.cfg are commented out.
I ended up adding a small popup light switch panel.
This will add taxi light...

"//Taxi Light
light.XX =6, -1.40, -0.10, -2.85, fx_landing.fx,"

And if your into it recognition lights.
//Recognition Lights
light.8 = 7, -33.500, 9.50, -0.78, fx_navred // bottom red fuselage recognition
light.9 = 7, -34.500, 9.50, -0.70, fx_navwhi // bottom amber fuselage recognition
light.10 = 7, -35.500, 9.50, -0.70, fx_navgre // bottom green fuselage recognition

[Seahawk72s]

- VCockpit 5 does not seem to be mapped to any surface.
- F15 smoke resides on VCockpit 3 & 4.
- VCockpit 3 is not quite mapped completely to object.(see pic)
- Could VCockpit 4 & 5 be mapped to other RO surfaces..?
- Could generator switch panel be mapped to VC so voltage gauges could be placed..?

[DC1973]

Thanks for the feedback folks! In brief to reply to some observations:

The bouncing aircraft on the runway that won't take off is something I recall seeing myself once before with another airplane and I think it was something to do with airfield elevation but I can't remember what the cause was. I think Pam's right in that it seems to be peculiar to scenery rather than the model. If it pops back into my mind I'll report it here.

Vcockpit 5 is mapped to the upper quadrant of the RO position and displays altimeter and ASI. I'll look at the maps also when I get a chance.

I'll look at the switches in the VC but they're the same set as the Reporter and nothing's been changed that I'm aware of so they should be operating in the same way.

I'll get to any other niggles as they come in for an update, but am having a little break from modeling at the moment before beginning the next project as my daughter's on her school summer holidays at the moment. Once all the data's in I'll do the work and update the files here and at Simviation :)

Cheers!

[DC1973]

Just flew a short hop and she flies like a charm! Just a couple niggles about switches

The landing lights can be extended but I can't turn them on, no switch and no taxi light, most switches on the left hand panel appear to be inverted (battery, avionics, engine start switches are on energize when they aren't going and switch to "off" to start, same with fuel pumps)


I identified the problem with the switches - they're fine, but I used an old texture map instead of the Reporter's new one. Where the panel says "off", it's supposed to say "on"! Will update it shortly.

The landing light switch is on the same panel, bottom middle. Works fine on my machine and extends the lights, illuminated. The landing light is double-spaced out in the .cfg because the light is an attach-point and swings down with the animated light assembly itself.

[MrZippy]

Awesome..
OK, so what this means, since the FDE for the zP-61C is a modification of the one i had you download, is that my next step is to put the two side by side and figure out which difference is causing the issue.. This may talke a couple days.. Bear with me :)..

Thanks, Pam....there's no rush.

[roger-wilco-66]

Hi,

just a few observations on the reported bouncing.

- Props twirling during bounce:

In my opinion: That effect comes from the aircraft being suspended in the air for a second or so during the bounce. With the plane afloat the sim thinks that the prop should be windmilling. As soon as the aircraft lands on the ground it stops the revolutions again. When the airplane bounces all this happens in a short time frame. This is an oversimplification effect of the sim, since a prop should not be windmilling beyond a certain speed.

- Bouncing:

- MrZippy, you could try to adjust your mesh setting to 5m. That's what ORBX recommends for their scenery, and I think it's also a good setting for other sceneries. It also could be that any mesh related problems can be aggrevated by orientation parameters in the aircraft.cfg like static_pitch . We're looking into that.

I flew the P-61C for weeks now, on default sceneries, various payware and a very exotic scenery of my own, and did not experience that effect, I must say. But that doesn't mean that there isn't something going on.


Cheers,
Mark

[Seahawk72s]

[QUOTE=DC1973;1150344]Thanks for the feedback folks! In brief to reply to some observations:


Vcockpit 5 is mapped to the upper quadrant of the RO position and displays altimeter and ASI. I'll look at the maps also when I get a chance. /QUOTE]

I took a second look and RO gauges are on VCockpit 8...?
A small item but I noticed fuel diagram on left is upside down..

[Catboat]

Dean, What can I say! As a person who is a computer Neanderthal, I am as always totally in awe of what you Gents can do!! Great hairy-chested aircraft and a tribute to Jack Northrop, one of the great innovative designers of the era, whose work, though not overlooked, has been overshadowed by some better-known designers of the time.:jump:

[DC1973]

[QUOTE=DC1973;1150344]Thanks for the feedback folks! In brief to reply to some observations:


Vcockpit 5 is mapped to the upper quadrant of the RO position and displays altimeter and ASI. I'll look at the maps also when I get a chance. /QUOTE]

I took a second look and RO gauges are on VCockpit 8...?
A small item but I noticed fuel diagram on left is upside down..

Thanks. I'll flip the fuel diagram in the textures. Unfortunately, I just went to check the VC texture maps in FSDS and in the rush of changes and requests, it appears that yesterday I inadvertently deleted the entire VC source model. My fault entirely, but I suspect that any changes from now on will be texture based only. I'm off to have a lie down...

[DC1973]

Dean, What can I say! As a person who is a computer Neanderthal, I am as always totally in awe of what you Gents can do!! Great hairy-chested aircraft and a tribute to Jack Northrop, one of the great innovative designers of the era, whose work, though not overlooked, has been overshadowed by some better-known designers of the time.:jump:

Thanks, glad you like the airplane! :)

[falcon409]

Dean, thanks for yet another beautiful airplane. The P-61 is a gem and I enjoyed a relatively short flight from Nantucket down to Dover AFB. I will say that I saw no real reason for anything other than a very normal approach and landing. I have realism settings almost maxed and using flaps alone I made a normal approach and nice soft touchdown at Dover. I even made the approach a very short one to see if dropping airspeed from 300kts to an approach speed was difficult, but with the spoilers and flaps used sparingly to bleed airspeed, even a short approach was easily performed.

Thanks again and well done!!

[falcon409]

One thing I did discover which I wish had been done differently is that there is no large size gauge panel. I was thinking about adding bezels to the gauges similar to what Dean showed in the actual cockpit images he posted in this thread. However the panel texture (or at least the only thing I can find that seems to be the panel texture) is located in the lower left corner of the "virtual cockpit" texture and too small to allow any enhancements. There are other panel textures but they seem to be only for the various switches and such.

Sorry Dean. . .an otherwise excellent airplane. . .just a personal preference probably not shared by most, lol

:after more searching it seems (according to MCX) that the texture for the panel may be part of the model file and not accessible as it references a texture $VCNEW which I'm pretty sure is a placeholder, but there is no corresponding texture in the folders.

[Seahawk72s]

One thing I did discover which I wish had been done differently is that there is no large size gauge panel. I was thinking about adding bezels to the gauges similar to what Dean showed in the actual cockpit images he posted in this thread. However the panel texture (or at least the only thing I can find that seems to be the panel texture) is located in the lower left corner of the "virtual cockpit" texture and too small to allow any enhancements. There are other panel textures but they seem to be only for the various switches and such.

Sorry Dean. . .an otherwise excellent airplane. . .just a personal preference probably not shared by most, lol

:after more searching it seems (according to MCX) that the texture for the panel may be part of the model file and not accessible as it references a texture $VCNEW which I'm pretty sure is a placeholder, but there is no corresponding texture in the folders.

I too would be interested to hear Dean's response as there are a few paint additions I would like to add to the panel texture.

[Seahawk72s]

.....However the panel texture (or at least the only thing I can find that seems to be the panel texture) is located in the lower left corner of the "virtual cockpit" texture and too small to allow any enhancements. .

This turns out to be the gun sight...

[Seahawk72s]

Using Rosa26 gauges with a few texture tweaks...

[falcon409]

OK, then that leads me to think, unless Dean says otherwise, that the texture for the panel is an internal part of the MDL file. That’s unfortunate.

[falcon409]

Using Rosa26 gauges with a few texture tweaks...
What are “Rosa26” gauges?

[DC1973]

Just a super quick reply but I was asked to remove the bezel part of the VC so that folks could change the layout of the instrument panel. Will reply in more detail later.

[MrZippy]

@roger-wilco-66...tried the 5M mesh setting-no help.

@warchild....Pam, I did a little cheat to get this bird flying. I started off with my twin-engine Volpar and after getting the gear and flaps up, I switched over to the P-61C. Flight performance was spot-on. Achieved a good landing using the air-brakes and flaps. It got real bouncy as it slowed on the runway. Sure is weird! Am I correct that the only steering is the use of differential braking?

[Seahawk72s]

:What are “Rosa26” gauges? :

Gauge cab from an SOH A26 project led by Milton back around 2007.

[huub vink]

I assume these are the gauges by Real Old Salt done for Milton Shupe's (and team) A-26.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=8&id=10505

The can be found in the library here under FS2004 others....

When my memory is correct there were two different .cab files. One with the ghost image of Real Old Salt (called Rosa26.cab) and one without this image (called Nosa26.cab)

Cheers,
Huub

Edit: SeaHawk just beat me......

[Seahawk72s]

I assume these are the gauges by Real Old Salt done for Milton Shupe's (and team) A-26.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=8&id=10505

The can be found in the library here under FS2004 others....

When my memory is correct there were two different .cab files. One with the ghost image of Real Old Salt (called Rosa26.cab) and one without this image (called Nosa26.cab)

Cheers,
Huub

Edit: SeaHawk just beat me......

You topped me with the Nosa26 cab, did not know about that...

[warchild]

@roger-wilco-66...tried the 5M mesh setting-no help.

@warchild....Pam, I did a little cheat to get this bird flying. I started off with my twin-engine Volpar and after getting the gear and flaps up, I switched over to the P-61C. Flight performance was spot-on. Achieved a good landing using the air-brakes and flaps. It got real bouncy as it slowed on the runway. Sure is weird! Am I correct that the only steering is the use of differential braking?

Glad the flight part of it was good :).. we';ll get you fixed on the rest of it too.. Check your PM's and let me know :)..
As for steering, the simple answer is no. I'm old you see and my hands are weak and my joystick is a force sensing one, so using differential braking, was breaking my hand. Youll find i added a 45degree deflection on the nosewheel so we could use nosewheel steering if we choose.

Regarding bouncing.
I just did a flight out of a pre-alpha airbase thats as exotic as you can get. It's part of an as yet unreleased scenery package by a very dear friend, whom i hope gets a chance to release it some day. Of course I had an issue. It put my plane in the middle of a gravel pit that i had to drive out of, but once I was up on the main ground, tyhere were no problems. That of course is using the FDE i sent you. If everything works on your end, I'll post it here as a fix and an update as some minor but possibly important things were reworked..
I also hope everyone enjoys this little snapshot, of Claire Chenaults Kunming China.

https://i.imgur.com/HztTpmi.jpg

[DennyA]

Just a huge thanks to everyone involved in the project! Beautiful plane, and wow, it flies well. Really feels like a real plane as you're reaching takeoff speeds, more so than some payware that just leaps into the sky.

My default flight had the lights on so my guns were stuck firing, but once I figured out they were slaved to a light all went well. :)

[warchild]

Just a huge thanks to everyone involved in the project! Beautiful plane, and wow, it flies well. Really feels like a real plane as you're reaching takeoff speeds, more so than some payware that just leaps into the sky.

My default flight had the lights on so my guns were stuck firing, but once I figured out they were slaved to a light all went well. :)

Fantastic to hear and glad your enjoying it :) ..

[DC1973]

Thanks for the continuing feedback everyone! Sorry for the short reply earlier, I was only on my Kindle and typing on it is a real pain.

Sadly, it does appear that I have lost the source file for the VC. While it's a huge relief that the model was basically finished and I didn't have to start over, obviously it's a bit of a blow as I can't now just nip in and change things very easily.

Regarding the textures, while many parts of the VC are mapped individually, many others are not and simply draw from existing textures from other parts of the airplane. The gunner's sights pillar, for instance, references the aluminium block on the engine texture sheet. This was a time-saving exercise for me in the process of building the VC.

Fingers crossed Pam and co can get to the bottom of the strange bouncing behaviour of the airplane seen by Mr Zippy. A paint kit will soon be released here that covers both the P-61C and the Reporter, so folks can start tinkering in some more detail when it comes to repaints both internal and external.

Cheers :)

[MrZippy]

Glad the flight part of it was good :).. we';ll get you fixed on the rest of it too.. Check your PM's and let me know :)..
As for steering, the simple answer is no. I'm old you see and my hands are weak and my joystick is a force sensing one, so using differential braking, was breaking my hand. Youll find i added a 45degree deflection on the nosewheel so we could use nosewheel steering if we choose.

Regarding bouncing.
I just did a flight out of a pre-alpha airbase thats as exotic as you can get. It's part of an as yet unreleased scenery package by a very dear friend, whom i hope gets a chance to release it some day. Of course I had an issue. It put my plane in the middle of a gravel pit that i had to drive out of, but once I was up on the main ground, tyhere were no problems. That of course is using the FDE i sent you. If everything works on your end, I'll post it here as a fix and an update as some minor but possibly important things were reworked..
I also hope everyone enjoys this little snapshot, of Claire Chenaults Kunming China.

https://i.imgur.com/HztTpmi.jpg

Great shots, Pam. Test results of the FDE and .cfg sent by PM. Even at slow, bouncy taxi speed there is no steering at all and it tends to go extremely left.
Like I said, the P-51B did great in pretty much all phases. Wonder what the effect of placing the original P-51C FDE and engine parameters from the aircraft.cfg into the B would do? More poop to party with??:dizzy:

[mcanx]

Dean this plane is outstanding. It is so good that I retired my old Ito P-61 to the bone yard. SeaHawk I changed the color of my radar bezel to silver like yours. Do you think when your done tweaking your panel you could make up a panel zip so the rest of us could try your panel cfg? I sure like the one your picture shows. I also tweaked my lights and included your taxi and recognition lights. If anyone is interested here is a copy of mine.
[lights]

//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation-recognition, 4=cockpit, 5=landing, 6=taxi

//Navigation Lights
light.0 = 3, -14.83, 33.039, 3.420, fx_navgre
light.1 = 3, -14.83, -33.039, 3.420, fx_navred
light.2 = 3, -43.30, -9.75, 8.00, fx_navwhi
light.3 = 3, -43.40, 9.55, 8.00, fx_navwhi
light.4 = 3, -18.863, 0, -3.103, fx_beacon
//Cockpit Lights
light.5 = 4, -5.109, 0, 1.345, fx_vclight_deepred
light.6 = 4, -10.92, 0, 3.78, fx_vclight_deepred
//Landing Lights
light.7 = 5, -16.72, -23.20, 1.8, fx_landing.fx
light.8 = 5, -16.72, 23.20, 1.8, fx_landing.fx
//Taxi Light
light.9 = 6, -2.00, -0.10, -2.85, fx_landing.fx,
//Recognition Lights
light.10 = 3, -33.500, 9.50, -0.78, fx_navred // bottom red fuselage recognition
light.11 = 3, -34.500, 9.50, -0.70, fx_navwhi // bottom amber fuselage recognition
light.12 = 3, -35.500, 9.50, -0.70, fx_navgre // bottom green fuselage recognition
//Guns----------------------------------------------use strobe switch
light.13= 2, -14.122, 0.500, 4.437, fx_Wing_Guns
light.14= 2, -14.122, -0.500, 4.437, fx_Wing_Guns
light.15= 2, -14.000, 1.200, -2.397, fx_Wing_Guns
light.16= 2, -14.000, -1.200, -2.397, fx_Wing_Guns

Thanks again Dean. Robert

[simtech]

:jump: First, a great job Dean to you and your team. This is an excellent airplane and you and your team did not spare many details. Thank you. In addition to the niggles already mentioned, I experienced something unmentioned up to this point. I'm running FSX-A, plane loaded fine and after engine start attempted to taxi to runup area. At 45"MP, and prop RPM @2400, airplane didn't move. Further examination revealed that even though the prop levers are animated correctly, (Ctrl-F3 for increasing Prop RPM) the RPM gauge is not. It appears to work in reverse whereas Ctrl-F2 increases the Prop RPM indication. To taxi and T/O, the RPM gauge is actually reading minimal. Other indicators seem to reflect expected values. Oddly, while flying, CTRL-F3 will, in fact, increase prop rpm. Not sure what I'm missing here. The performance is excellent, fun and, thankfully, challenging. Just one other observation and question, in this d/l, the Black Widow texture, the cowl flaps, prop spinner and top of the nose is a light OD color. Is this what is to be expected? Not sure. Just asking, perhaps my rig is choking on some colors. I didn't know if these areas were chrome, black or some other color. Again, thank you and your team for a job very well done. This must have been quite a formidable airplane in its time. I'm really enjoying it. Thank you....Terry

[DC1973]

:jump: First, a great job Dean to you and your team. This is an excellent airplane and you and your team did not spare many details. Thank you. In addition to the niggles already mentioned, I experienced something unmentioned up to this point. I'm running FSX-A, plane loaded fine and after engine start attempted to taxi to runup area. At 45"MP, and prop RPM @2400, airplane didn't move. Further examination revealed that even though the prop levers are animated correctly, (Ctrl-F3 for increasing Prop RPM) the RPM gauge is not. It appears to work in reverse whereas Ctrl-F2 increases the Prop RPM indication. To taxi and T/O, the RPM gauge is actually reading minimal. Other indicators seem to reflect expected values. Oddly, while flying, CTRL-F3 will, in fact, increase prop rpm. Not sure what I'm missing here. The performance is excellent, fun and, thankfully, challenging. Just one other observation and question, in this d/l, the Black Widow texture, the cowl flaps, prop spinner and top of the nose is a light OD color. Is this what is to be expected? Not sure. Just asking, perhaps my rig is choking on some colors. I didn't know if these areas were chrome, black or some other color. Again, thank you and your team for a job very well done. This must have been quite a formidable airplane in its time. I'm really enjoying it. Thank you....Terry

Thanks Terry, glad you're enjoying the airplane! :)

The power settings are I think controlled by the FDE and as such that's Pam's expertise. Re' the colours, the black bird is Moonlight Serenade and the cowls, nose, spinners and wing tips should be a sort of light green ( I sampled the colour from photos of the real airplane ). Is that what you're seeing?

[simtech]

Dean, yes, those colors are exactly what I'm seeing. I just wanted to verify that my feeble machine isn't choking. The airplane flies great and other than the prop indication not able to read max on T/O but does indicate higher in the air, no problem. I like your subtle flight crew animations. Thank you.

[warchild]

ok.. Power settings.
Never use em.. I use a throttle so i'm not at all certain of the mechanics of F-1 through F-4 and how they work.
There IS however a mystery that I believe you may have just confirmed..
I have buttons set up to increase and decrease the rpm you see, soo, i push one button and the rpm rises, i push another and the rpm falls.
BUT
youll find that on this plane if you keep the rpms at 2700 even at full throttle, youll never get past 300 mph in level flight. However, if you get the plane to 300 mph then set the rpm's to 2400 - 2450 and reduce the manifold pressure to 45 - 50 In/Hg the plane will accelerate to 360 mph without wep.

what i believe is happening is a glitch in FSX/P3D wherein the angle of the propeller is so great that its no longer able to bite enough air to go any faster, but when you reduce rps, your reducing the angle of the blade just enough that its actually able to do its job more efficiently.. I'll look into this.. bear with me though as I'm already working on MrZippy's issue which is a real head scratcher so far.. I promise i'll get these isdsues eliminated though..
Pam

[MrZippy]

I'll look into this.. bear with me though as I'm already working on MrZippy's issue which is a real head scratcher so far.. I promise i'll get these isdsues eliminated though..
Pam

Pam for President!! I'm sure it couldn't get any worse. It is now fixed, pretty much close to 100%. Just some slightly nervous props before engine start. Nose wheel steering is now effective! WooHoo!:applause:

Now a great Plane, Dean! :ernaehrung004:

[warchild]

Dean, yes, those colors are exactly what I'm seeing. I just wanted to verify that my feeble machine isn't choking. The airplane flies great and other than the prop indication not able to read max on T/O but does indicate higher in the air, no problem. I like your subtle flight crew animations. Thank you.

Some of what your seeing is engine spool up. when you reach take off speed, the engine hasnt fully spooled up. you can tell this by the sound. When fully spooled up those engines sound like some gigantic buzz saw cutting through a log. You have to understand. This plane doesnt actually fly. It grabs the sky by the throat and pulls it down to it's own level.. All joking aside though, yeah, you have a 34000 pound plane and 9000 pounds of thrust to get it into the air. It's working its butt off.. Adding WEP will help a lot, but you have only 20 minutes of coolant so use it wisely..

[warchild]

:jump: First, a great job Dean to you and your team. This is an excellent airplane and you and your team did not spare many details. Thank you. In addition to the niggles already mentioned, I experienced something unmentioned up to this point. I'm running FSX-A, plane loaded fine and after engine start attempted to taxi to runup area. At 45"MP, and prop RPM @2400, airplane didn't move. Further examination revealed that even though the prop levers are animated correctly, (Ctrl-F3 for increasing Prop RPM) the RPM gauge is not. It appears to work in reverse whereas Ctrl-F2 increases the Prop RPM indication. To taxi and T/O, the RPM gauge is actually reading minimal. Other indicators seem to reflect expected values. Oddly, while flying, CTRL-F3 will, in fact, increase prop rpm. Not sure what I'm missing here. The performance is excellent, fun and, thankfully, challenging. Just one other observation and question, in this d/l, the Black Widow texture, the cowl flaps, prop spinner and top of the nose is a light OD color. Is this what is to be expected? Not sure. Just asking, perhaps my rig is choking on some colors. I didn't know if these areas were chrome, black or some other color. Again, thank you and your team for a job very well done. This must have been quite a formidable airplane in its time. I'm really enjoying it. Thank you....Terry

Ok. Lets go take a look at this one now.. :)

Ok, so here's where we start.. Grab your favorite beverage, kick your shoes off and get comfy.

First, I'm running fsx:SE and whatever the latest update to that is, on a ryzen 5 and a gtx 1070.

Hardware aside, control F-whatever, doesnt work on SE. F2 decelerates and F3 accelerates.

the thrust levers in my VC work as expected, as do the F keys, and the throttles as well..

My "suspicion" is that its acceleration thats messing you up. The entire plane was developed in P3D and then recompiled for FSX, WHICH could be part of the problem as we now have three sets of code we're dealing with ( P3D, FSX, and acceleration ).

obviously things are already complicated so i'm going to start with the most drastic option..
Do you hate Steam ( lot of people do and I highly dislike them )??
FSX:SE is on sale and bundled with Active Sky right now for 25 dollars. Is this an option you would consider??
https://store.steampowered.com/app/364340/FSX_Steam_Edition__Active_Sky_Next_AddOn/
let me know..

[DennyA]

I forgot to comment on the sound. It's awesome! That noise at high speed with a subwoofer... Dang. How was that created?

[warchild]

I forgot to comment on the sound. It's awesome! That noise at high speed with a subwoofer... Dang. How was that created?

I'm envious. I dont have a subwoofer ::lol::
GMan provided us with the sounds which are from his tigercat, but i've no idea how they were made. I've heard that sound in real planes before, so i fell in love with these sounds as soon as i heard them and the rest is history..

[simtech]

Pam, thank you for your interest in trying to resolve this. As for SE. I have it in my Steam acct., but have never installed it. My ole tried and true FSX-A has always been reliable. I won't abandon her now. This issue relative to all things about this wonderful airplane is so minor I'm not "going to sweat the small stuff." I like your description on how this beast flies. It claws its way into the air. Much like how a helicopter beats the air into submission to get airborne. Thank you for a great effort and I'm looking forward exploring all of the flight envelope of this animal. You're a true gem and thank you for this and the other FDEs you've provided to many outstanding projects.

[warchild]

Pam, thank you for your interest in trying to resolve this. As for SE. I have it in my Steam acct., but have never installed it. My ole tried and true FSX-A has always been reliable. I won't abandon her now. This issue relative to all things about this wonderful airplane is so minor I'm not "going to sweat the small stuff." I like your description on how this beast flies. It claws its way into the air. Much like how a helicopter beats the air into submission to get airborne. Thank you for a great effort and I'm looking forward exploring all of the flight envelope of this animal. You're a true gem and thank you for this and the other FDEs you've provided to many outstanding projects.

I'm always glad to be there. Your all very special too me and I'd move heaven and earth if i could, for any of you.. Let me know if i can help with anything.. :)

Pam ;)

[Seahawk72s]

"OK, then that leads me to think, unless Dean says otherwise, that the texture for the panel is an internal part of the MDL file. That’s unfortunate."


By placing a background gauge at 00 I was able to add 1 bezel, fire instructions & white lines.

[falcon409]

Correct, I forgot about that little trick. Thanks for the reminder

[Seahawk72s]

Correct, I forgot about that little trick. Thanks for the reminder

See if this works for you



//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=1024,1024
visible=1
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$VCNew

gauge00=P61!background, 1,1,1022,593

[falcon409]

Just a super quick reply but I was asked to remove the bezel part of the VC so that folks could change the layout of the instrument panel. Will reply in more detail later.
Understood, however a normal panel background is usually still supplied on a texture sheet to allow additions such as placards, switches, bezels (in texture form, which is what I had planned to do) and so on. Probably should have explained that when you asked the original question. 3D bezels are what I believe you were asking about. . .I add bezels on the panel texture and then drop the gauges into the bezels. . .Milton's Beech 18 and Howard 500 are examples of panels I've done that way. No problem, I'll just find a way to do what I need to.

As I mentioned in my initial post. . .beautiful airplane and enjoyable to fly. Thanks for all the hard work.

[falcon409]

See if this works for you



//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=1024,1024
visible=1
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$VCNew
gauge00=P61!background, 1,1,1022,593
Thanks for taking the time to do that, however I think I'll leave it as is. I'm used to working with a visible panel texture that I can pull into my graphics program and enhance as I go. That isn't available so I'll forgo the plans I had and just enjoy flying the airplane. Thanks again.

[Seahawk72s]

Thanks for taking the time to do that, however I think I'll leave it as is. I'm used to working with a visible panel texture that I can pull into my graphics program and enhance as I go. That isn't available so I'll forgo the plans I had and just enjoy flying the airplane. Thanks again.

MMmmmm, I've had that background into my paint program more then a dozen times tonight so ....?

In any case best of luck, will look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Sundog]

Hi Dean,

Is there a way to remove the drop tanks on this and the F-15 Reporter?

Regards,

Ken

[DC1973]

Hi Dean,

Is there a way to remove the drop tanks on this and the F-15 Reporter?

Regards,

Ken

Hi Ken,

The tanks are fixed in position I'm afraid. However, it would be possible using Model Converter X and a custom XML gauge to make them invisible when fuel tanks are, for instance, 50% full or less. I'm happy for anyone to make such modifications should they wish to, and might do it myself at some point when I get some spare time.

[warchild]

If you are experiencing the aircraft pulling hard to either the left of the right on takeoff, turn the engines off and do a manual restart.
1. Battery on
2. avionics in the off position ( on )
3. fuel pump boosters on
4. apply gas and click the left starter switch. If it doesnt start, apply more gas.
5. repeat #4 for the right starter.
6. Increase the throttle to 1000 rpm
7. keep an eye on oil and CHT temps.
8. wait till the temps are in the green ( about 3 minutes )
9. smoothly and slowly apply more throttle till you reach take off speed and power.

These engines are cantankerous and finnicky. They like to be babied.. Do not simply slam the throttles to the wall and expect things to go well.. A slow steady hand and an observant eye will take you a long way to enjoying your experience more..

[scotth6]

https://i.imgur.com/UhDlRjp.jpg


Absolutely awesome plane Dean, and everyone involved. The modelling, texturing, flight dynamics, sounds, are all superb. I am having a bit of trouble keeping it straight during takeoff and landing, but I'm pretty sure that's pilot error :adoration:.

Thanks very much for an awesome aircraft.

Cheers,

[warchild]

https://i.imgur.com/UhDlRjp.jpg


Absolutely awesome plane Dean, and everyone involved. The modelling, texturing, flight dynamics, sounds, are all superb. I am having a bit of trouble keeping it straight during takeoff and landing, but I'm pretty sure that's pilot error :adoration:.

Thanks very much for an awesome aircraft.

Cheers,

Glad your enjoying it :)
It can take me upwards of thirty seconds to go from stand still to full throttle because i'm constantly moving each throttle back and forth keeping the plane as straight as I can on the runway. Persnickety engines dont help either, but gortunately a restart doesnt take long, when keeping it straight is impossible..

[scotth6]

Glad your enjoying it :)
It can take me upwards of thirty seconds to go from stand still to full throttle because i'm constantly moving each throttle back and forth keeping the plane as straight as I can on the runway. Persnickety engines dont help either, but gortunately a restart doesnt take long, when keeping it straight is impossible..

Thanks Pam,

I just saw your post above mine regarding the takeoff and landing, I somehow missed it before. I probably had the page open as I was posting and it didn't refresh. I will give the engine restart a go. Unfortunately I am not set up with separate throttle levers. Although I do have a Warthog controller, I use the spare two levers for mixture and prop control. I often think separate throttles would come in handy.

I assume you did the flight dynamics Pam. Absolutely awesome job. I really love the way this plane flies.

Cheers,

Scott

[DC1973]

Absolutely awesome plane Dean, and everyone involved. The modelling, texturing, flight dynamics, sounds, are all superb. I am having a bit of trouble keeping it straight during takeoff and landing, but I'm pretty sure that's pilot error :adoration:.

Thanks very much for an awesome aircraft.

Cheers,

You're welcome Scott, glad you're enjoying it! :)

[warchild]

Thanks Pam,

I just saw your post above mine regarding the takeoff and landing, I somehow missed it before. I probably had the page open as I was posting and it didn't refresh. I will give the engine restart a go. Unfortunately I am not set up with separate throttle levers. Although I do have a Warthog controller, I use the spare two levers for mixture and prop control. I often think separate throttles would come in handy.

I assume you did the flight dynamics Pam. Absolutely awesome job. I really love the way this plane flies.

Cheers,

Scott

Thanks Scott.. Yeahh, I and Paul Frimston started working on this FDE in 2010, We worked on it for five years, and then my health got too bad to continue with the schedule i had set for myself.. Paul's now making his own mark in the flight sim world as a flight dynamicist and doing a great job of it.. This FDE taught us more thsn we could possibly imagine back then, and its such a delight seeing it being enjoyed. ;)

[Seahawk72s]

I tried to use mostly SOH team gauges but then found myself needing to go elsewhere
for authentic looking P61 type gauges.

You will need the NOSA gauges that huub mentions in post # 47.
(The rotary variable dimmer works off the "instrument light" switch)

Milton's ST_Lodestar which will give you the radio altimeter.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?s=&catid=37&nameid=&sort=d&page=1&pp=20&keyid=8265

The FDG_P61b gauges from this link. (Authentic looking fuel gauge and recognition switch.)

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=cfsac&DLID=149136

And the center piece, a very good Sperry gyro unit from Roy Chaffin and company.
You will need his B25, a very good aircraft in its own rights.

http://www.roychaffin.com/packages.html

You will see the differences in the screen shots.
Two panel.cfg are included depending on which version you go with, DC3 or RCS.

[PRB]

If you are experiencing the aircraft pulling hard to either the left of the right on takeoff, turn the engines off and do a manual restart.
1. Battery on
2. avionics in the off position ( on )
3. fuel pump boosters on
4. apply gas and click the left starter switch. If it doesnt start, apply more gas.
5. repeat #4 for the right starter.
6. Increase the throttle to 1000 rpm
7. keep an eye on oil and CHT temps.
8. wait till the temps are in the green ( about 3 minutes )
9. smoothly and slowly apply more throttle till you reach take off speed and power.

These engines are cantankerous and finnicky. They like to be babied.. Do not simply slam the throttles to the wall and expect things to go well.. A slow steady hand and an observant eye will take you a long way to enjoying your experience more..

#9 is the key! On my first takeoff [attempt] I drove the beastie off the runway, into the grass, through the woods and into a barn. "What the heck is wrong with this airplane?" thought I, lol. Of course I did slam the throttles full forward when lined up. Did a few more experiments, and sort of figured out Item #9 above by myself, through trial and error and a few runway signs. Once in the air it was a joy to fly. Love the speed brakes. She sure doesn't want to slow down... Landing was not too difficult, but once on the ground you gotta be careful, lest you drive off into the bushes again. Very fun plane. Thanks to all who helped bring this beautiful ship to life!

[MrZippy]

#9 is the key! On my first takeoff [attempt] I drove the beastie off the runway, into the grass, through the woods and into a barn. "What the heck is wrong with this airplane?" thought I, lol. Of course I did slam the throttles full forward when lined up. Did a few more experiments, and sort of figured out Item #9 above by myself, through trial and error and a few runway signs. Once in the air it was a joy to fly. Love the speed brakes. She sure doesn't want to slow down... Landing was not too difficult, but once on the ground you gotta be careful, lest you drive off into the bushes again. Very fun plane. Thanks to all who helped bring this beautiful ship to life!

Now that my aircraft is behaving normally, It did have the tendency for a left pull but with Pam's instructions, it's much easier to keep 'er on the runway. I also added a little more pizazz to my brakes.:encouragement:

[jmfabio]

Thanks Dean for a beautiful black beast. :applause: Downloaded yesterday and did some flights around my Morotai (WIP) and I must say she handles beautifully and is simply gorgeous. She is a welcome addition to my hangar! Great job!:encouragement:

Joe

[warchild]

Now that my aircraft is behaving normally, It did have the tendency for a left pull but with Pam's instructions, it's much easier to keep 'er on the runway. I also added a little more pizazz to my brakes.:encouragement:
::LOL:: It IS a bit like trying to stop a freight train isnt it??
During WWII Johnny Meyers landed a P-61B at 200mph.. it took him two miles to stop.. :)

[ian elliot]

During WWII Johnny Meyers landed a P-61B at 200mph.. it took him two miles to stop.. :)

Thats as fast as the touch down speed of a F104 Starfighter :jawdrop:, loving the aircraft by the way, big thank you to all involved:ernaehrung004:

[warchild]

Thats as fast as the touch down speed of a F104 Starfighter :jawdrop:, loving the aircraft by the way, big thank you to all involved:ernaehrung004:

What amazes me is they didnt blow the tires or struts..

the 104 is interesting too.. Nasa used to use them and regularly took them up too 118000 feet. thats a whole lot higher than the published altitude for the sr-71. amazing plane..

https://incredible-adventures.com/starfighter/

[MrZippy]

::LOL:: It IS a bit like trying to stop a freight train isnt it??
During WWII Johnny Meyers landed a P-61B at 200mph.. it took him two miles to stop.. :)

All successful landings in the last several attempts. One at L08 (5,000 foot runway) and this morning at Santa Barbra Municipal Airport. She seems to slow nicely with intermittent air brake and proper flaps. Finally deploying air brakes at touchdown and gentle pressure on the brakes.

[DC1973]

I tried to use mostly SOH team gauges but then found myself needing to go elsewhere
for authentic looking P61 type gauges.

Great panels! :) I do miss the 3D bezels though as they gave such depth to the cockpit in the Reporter. When I start work on the RF-8 Crusader in a couple of weeks, I'll have the 3D bezels back but with a new set up so that both preferences are covered ( 3D cockpit, ability to alter instruments with ease ). :)

[strykerpsg]

Absolutely beautiful plane Dean and company. I did not find this in the P3D download section. Is it P3D compatible?

[DC1973]

Absolutely beautiful plane Dean and company. I did not find this in the P3D download section. Is it P3D compatible?

It is indeed Matt, works a treat in all P3D versions :)

[strykerpsg]

It is indeed Matt, works a treat in all P3D versions :)

Thanks Dean. Downloading now

[MrZippy]

Still flying good! Has anyone tried the autopilot? I found that it will hold any heading perfectly but will not come close to holding altitude. I've copied and pasted into the aircraft.cfg the [altimeters] from another aircraft but still no luck. I've tried using my own Autopilot with another [autopilot] section with no luck. Ctrl+z won't hold it.

Anyone else have this problem?


62702

[SH427]

I'm not sure I could get the heading to hold either. I've been flying mostly VFR in real time weather so I thought I'd try it to see if it would hold me steady when it got breezy up near KBVS, which is my home base in the sim.

[MrZippy]

I'm not sure I could get the heading to hold either. I've been flying mostly VFR in real time weather so I thought I'd try it to see if it would hold me steady when it got breezy up near KBVS, which is my home base in the sim.

Thanks for the reply. Once you click on the knob for A/P or hit the z button, turning the knob on the A/P compass should make the aircraft turn and hold wherever you set it. Make sure the little light is on. Once I/We get the altitude hold working, it should be a comfortable plane for longer duration flights.

[falcon409]

No problems here. I did do away with the antique radio and made my own radio setup with the Collins radios and an autopilot from the AlphaSim B-57, (no changes were made to autopilot section in the aircraft.cfg file). I took off from Nantucket heading for Dover AFB on a hdg of 260. . .Altitude of 3000'(Following GPS track). . .as I was passing Marthas Vineyard I set a hdg of 040, switched from NAV to HDG on the autopilot and the Blackwidow turned to the new heading, maintaining the correct altitude.

NOTE: I always hit the "B" key and "D" key to ensure that the correct altimeter and compass headings are set. If those don't update as they should, altitudes and hdg's can be buggy as the AP is trying to compensate for incorrect information.

[MrZippy]

No problems here. I did do away with the antique radio and made my own radio setup with the Collins radios and an autopilot from the AlphaSim B-57, (no changes were made to autopilot section in the aircraft.cfg file). I took off from Nantucket heading for Dover AFB on a hdg of 260. . .Altitude of 3000'(Following GPS track). . .as I was passing Marthas Vineyard I set a hdg of 040, switched from NAV to HDG on the autopilot and the Blackwidow turned to the new heading, maintaining the correct altitude.

NOTE: I always hit the "B" key and "D" key to ensure that the correct altimeter and compass headings are set. If those don't update as they should, altitudes and hdg's can be buggy as the AP is trying to compensate for incorrect information.

Thanks! I'll try the B and D key on the next flight.

[jimjones]

Thanks so much Dean, Pam and the rest who worked so hard gifting this community of hobbyists with a long wished for version of the widow for FSX. It's a beauty. So hurried was I to fly that I took off, circled around and landed safely without flaps or speed brakes. Nice handling for such a beast.

[Dev One]

My two pennorth,
Very good modelling, Nice FDE Pam, but I'm suffering from jitters on the deck & prop rotation with everything switched off.
Take off OK, but almost no rudder effect on ground or in flight, & also get jitters in level flight. Cannot understand why one must pull pitch lever back at about 300 mph as well as throttle, AFSD shows prop pitch about 23 degrees at 300 mph & not much more at 400 mph - & then advance again to get through the brick wall - got it to 400 mph. Landed OK full flaps etc & spoiler, then switched off engines using M-, props stopped then reversed direction. Did notice the the dirt throws up about 18" aft of each wheel. So jitters might be two things, 1) incorrect contact points, but 2) more likely to be MoI related as noticed in aircraft cfg a very, very large yaw value compared to the pitch value.
I don't like to denigrate your work Pam as I know from experience how difficult FDE can be, so please take this as positive criticism.
BTW I got jitters on an addon Biggin Hill as well as standard Heathrow using FSX SP2.
Keith

[MrZippy]

My two pennorth,
Very good modelling, Nice FDE Pam, but I'm suffering from jitters on the deck & prop rotation with everything switched off.
Take off OK, but almost no rudder effect on ground or in flight, & also get jitters in level flight. Cannot understand why one must pull pitch lever back at about 300 mph as well as throttle, AFSD shows prop pitch about 23 degrees at 300 mph & not much more at 400 mph - & then advance again to get through the brick wall - got it to 400 mph. Landed OK full flaps etc & spoiler, then switched off engines using M-, props stopped then reversed direction. Did notice the the dirt throws up about 18" aft of each wheel. So jitters might be two things, 1) incorrect contact points, but 2) more likely to be MoI related as noticed in aircraft cfg a very, very large yaw value compared to the pitch value.
I don't like to denigrate your work Pam as I know from experience how difficult FDE can be, so please take this as positive criticism.
BTW I got jitters on an addon Biggin Hill as well as standard Heathrow using FSX SP2.
Keith

Nice to know that I am not the only one with a jittery aircraft in a cold and dark state. Pam did wonders for mine! Only slightly nervous props now.

[warchild]

let me check through those MOI's... Its been years since i looked at them..
I'm a little on the ragged edge this morning... Bear with me. My emphysema has kicked in full and theres a lot of chest pain and i cant get my breath and i can hardly think. A few days ago, i had an episode where i couldnt figure out how to open up a new window tab in firefox. My life is changing and i'm breaking down, slowly. Life does that. Life of all kinds.. Software life is life..
Charlie, your running acceleration on Win XP. Jim, your running SP2.. I developed this FDE, with Accel, SP2, SE, and P3D, and it wasnt all at once. Like I boasted so brazenly: the FDE was special. It was started in 2010 and was worked on 18 hours a day, seven days a week, till 2013 when i burned out and parted with flying.
Like i said, i did this fde in p3dV4 Thats because thats what i have on my computer. It's not even P3D. It's P3DV4!. Its a completely different animal from what it started out as. Still looks like FSX though.. The point i'm trying to make though is that the world changes. We can try and slow it down, but we're just fooling ourselves. You keep up, or it leaves you behind. Just like it's leaving me behind now because my body can no longer, keep up. Thats life.. We woul;d all like a magic blue pill that keeps us able to live in out matrixed fantasies of our nearly not so perfect worlds. You want me to support a program thjat hasnt been around in a very long time. You want me to support several programs that havent been around in a very long time, and an operating system that is all but extinct. I'm running a Ryzen 5 with six hard cores, six virtual cores, twelve threads, full virtualization as well and sixteen gigs of ddr4 ram pumping at 3200 mhz while running the absolute latest version of big brother windows 10 there is. Life has come a very long way from that little two core intel one point two ghz cpu that fsx was designed to run on.
I'll do my best to make this work for you folks, just as I always do, But really folks, it may be slow, but I'm dieing, and once i'm gone, I wont be there fore you or me or anyone any more. You need to learn to advance with the times before the times leave you behind, and your left with nothing.
I love you all.. Just bear with me. Today's a little rough..
Pam

heheheh 2011. same fde. there were no jitters then.. Enjoy..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v0EzTZQuTU

[PRB]

Love that video Pam! Got it "stickied" or "liked" or whatever you call it on YouTube! :encouragement:

[MrZippy]

Take care of yourself, Pam! Mine is running fine on FSX with SP2. No jitters in the air or on the ground. Just working out why it won't hold A/P altitude. No biggie:wavey:

[Dev One]

Pam, Very sorry to hear you are having a bad day, at least my half a blue pill 3 times a day is helping contain my Parkinsons tremors!

Anyway did a back of the envelope MoI calc according to the FS9 SDK & got
Pitch = 77235
Roll = 59283
Yaw = 110376.
I deleted the cross coupling.

Then found that the contact points wheel radius is actually the dia ( by scaling the onscreen model), so have halved that & then col #10 for the nosewheel damping was 12.98, so now its .98.
This has stopped the jitters which can be seen from the onscreen g reading, not jittering. Unfortunately the props still will not stop!
Tried a few prop alterations too,
Prop rotation was 1,0, now 1,1
beta min now 10
min gov rpm now 800, otherwise rpm too great & hence HP throttle closed so taxy speed 30 kts! Need to put prop pitch to coarse though.
low speed theory now 80.
There doesn't seem to be the necessity to change pitch or throttle at 300, it will pass through it albeit slowly - I got to 388 mph.

After all this the props will not stop - now the only thing I can think is that the prop still notation in the model mdl is wrong, as cannot see anything else that would affect them.
AFSD shows a negative rpm & gives a HP reading!

Now these work for me, might not be correct though. I still need to get more rudder authority, but thats probably in the air file.

Keep your chin up Pam, we are rooting for you.
Keith

[warchild]

Pam, Very sorry to hear you are having a bad day, at least my half a blue pill 3 times a day is helping contain my Parkinsons tremors!

Anyway did a back of the envelope MoI calc according to the FS9 SDK & got
Pitch = 77235
Roll = 59283
Yaw = 110376.
I deleted the cross coupling.

Then found that the contact points wheel radius is actually the dia ( by scaling the onscreen model), so have halved that & then col #10 for the nosewheel damping was 12.98, so now its .98.
This has stopped the jitters which can be seen from the onscreen g reading, not jittering. Unfortunately the props still will not stop!
Tried a few prop alterations too,
Prop rotation was 1,0, now 1,1
beta min now 10
min gov rpm now 800, otherwise rpm too great & hence HP throttle closed so taxy speed 30 kts! Need to put prop pitch to coarse though.
low speed theory now 80.
There doesn't seem to be the necessity to change pitch or throttle at 300, it will pass through it albeit slowly - I got to 388 mph.

After all this the props will not stop - now the only thing I can think is that the prop still notation in the model mdl is wrong, as cannot see anything else that would affect them.
AFSD shows a negative rpm & gives a HP reading!

Now these work for me, might not be correct though. I still need to get more rudder authority, but thats probably in the air file.

Keep your chin up Pam, we are rooting for you.
Keith

Oh gods I hate the tremors.. I get them any time my blood oxygen drops or I get overstressed. The VA diagnosed me with "Parkinsonians like disease" a long time ago after my motorcycle accident where i came down on my head.. hehehe.. I'm brain damaged ::lol::... Glad you got it covered.. Damned shakes rive me nuts..

Anyway.. I would think that that .98 in colum 10 would cause your nosewheel to dive into the pavement when you hit the brakes.. Thats why it was so high. I just kept making it higher till the wheel stopped going sub terrestrial..
Your correct about the rudder. That is located in section 1104 in the air file I believe. and is under the yaw sub section.However, I believe you might be better served simply by lowering the weathervane entry. We designed the fde based around reports of reports of Johnny Meyers tyranical insistance of how the plane needed to be built, while he was chief test pilot for the project. It could be flown by an eighteen year old farm boy from Iowa whos never seen a plane before, and it'll bring him home safe.
That and the MOI's were finalized in 2012 so, things are much different now and perhaps its time for me to take my own advice and update all the old data..

Oh, days not bad. Just emotional and cant breathe but i'm winning that one too, for the moment :)..

[Josh Patterson]

Just wondering the trick to the prop control on this and the Reporter. I have trouble finding the sweet spot. If I pull the prop control from where it is initially it will bring the RPMs down as expected but then they will rise again. If I push it they rise very slowly. I can get it off the ground, but it takes more work than I am used to. (Usually on these big radials I take off with about 50" MP and about 2500 RPM. Even when I initially adjust the Widow and Reporter to this they just don't accelerate and I have to walk the RPMs through 2500 till I get to the setting that works.) Looks great and fun to fly once off and trotting though!

[SH427]

My experience dictates that the weight of the props won't allow you to go at or above 2500 until you're well down the runway on your takeoff roll. Once I get it stable (I fly VFR at about 3-4k') I usually pull back to 2000 or 2100 and 40" of MP, that'll get you up to 300 mph pdq

[Dev One]

My experience dictates that the weight of the props won't allow you to go at or above 2500 until you're well down the runway on your takeoff roll. Once I get it stable (I fly VFR at about 3-4k') I usually pull back to 2000 or 2100 and 40" of MP, that'll get you up to 300 mph pdq & Josh's comment - I got over that with my mods to the aircraft.cfg prop values mentioned above, basically with the unmodified values the prop is too coarse pitch & acting like a fixed pitch prop, making it start at 10° helped, but one needs also to reduce the min control rpm.
These are all things that I have never had a problem with before, so flummuxed as to why they are appearing now - could it be the use of Jerry Beckwiths program putting hidden things in the software?
Keith

[Dev One]

Bit more info on prop rotation cold & dark - the problem lies in the airfile item 509, the graph has no negative x value; normally a neg y value is needed for the first point neg x. followed by the same values but positive values. I need to trim mine to get the prop to stop in time with the sound, otherwise the remaining values so far are OK. Sounds greek? Will try again tomorrow.
Also fiddling with the rudder in the 1101 air file, got a bit more control but not enough. Still need to go to coarse pitch on landing to reduce power. Thats the next hurdle.....
Good night
Keith

[warchild]

Just wondering the trick to the prop control on this and the Reporter. I have trouble finding the sweet spot. If I pull the prop control from where it is initially it will bring the RPMs down as expected but then they will rise again. If I push it they rise very slowly. I can get it off the ground, but it takes more work than I am used to. (Usually on these big radials I take off with about 50" MP and about 2500 RPM. Even when I initially adjust the Widow and Reporter to this they just don't accelerate and I have to walk the RPMs through 2500 till I get to the setting that works.) Looks great and fun to fly once off and trotting though!

Hmmm. You pose an interesting question. Let me see if i can answer it.

You see, I never use prop control. The manuals dont talk of it either. Instead the manuals use MP and RPM. The problem is, something happened when i connected a supercharger up to the turbocharger and now, it seems rpms are dictated by the throttle. Thats not the case with the P-61B however, and that confuses me because they both use an almost identical FDE, but thats not the case at this time.

The P-61s use Hamilton Standard Electric propellers. These are self adjusting propellers. There is no sweet spot. Unlike some planes where you set the pitch and the rpms follow, on this plane, you set the rpms and the propeller pitch follows. however, as you climb, cruise dive bank and turn, the pitch of the propellers is constantly being adusted. You just dont normally see it as there isnt a gauge to show it.

My recommendation is to set an axis for rpropeller rpms and use that instead of prop pitch. Takeoff is max rpms ( 2700 ) though most likely youll be in the air before you hit 2300 rpms. The plane is incredibly powerful. It also weighs half again as much as a fully loaded B-25 bomber at 34000 pounds. At the beginning of your takeoff run, the blades follow the throttle until they are at maximum pitch. As the plane overcomes the weight ( MOI's ) the blades adjust and trim to a finer pitch. As you rotate and begin your climb, the blades once again go to full pitch and bite into the air to pull you off the ground. aand up, and your rpms stay low. What I do is after takeoff I level out and wait for the rpms to come to full ( 2700 ) then i throttle up and begin my climb.

The base rule of thumb is to set your MP to 54 I/Hg and rpms @2700 for takeoff. For cruise Set your rpms to 2400 - 2450 and your MP to 50 I/Hg. 45 I/HG is also acceptible. cruise is 315 mph, though it'll probably creep up to 350.

hope this helps a little bit..

Pam

[falcon409]

. . . . . .My recommendation is to set an axis for propeller rpms and use that instead of prop pitch. Takeoff is max rpms ( 2700 ) though most likely you'll be in the air before you hit 2300 rpms. The plane is incredibly powerful. It also weighs half again as much as a fully loaded B-25 bomber at 34000 pounds. At the beginning of your takeoff run, the blades follow the throttle until they are at maximum pitch. As the plane overcomes the weight (MOI's) the blades adjust and trim to a finer pitch. As you rotate and begin your climb, the blades once again go to full pitch and bite into the air to pull you off the ground and up, and your rpms stay low. What I do is after takeoff I level out and wait for the rpms to come to full (2700) then I throttle up and begin my climb.

The base rule of thumb is to set your MP to 54 I/Hg and rpms @2700 for takeoff. For cruise Set your rpms to 2400 - 2450 and your MP to 50 I/Hg. 45 I/HG is also acceptable. Cruise is 315 mph, though it'll probably creep up to 350.

hope this helps a little bit..

Pam
Pam, I normally don't fly with anything checked that will cause me to have a bad flight (crash detection, engine exploding, airframe coming apart in mid-air, etc), lol. However after reading all the previous posts and all the adjustments people are making to the airfile and cfg file I decided to do my worst and check everything available.

Amazingly, your description above matches what I found without doing anything other than simply "Flying the airplane". . .what a concept, lol. I also level off after gaining some altitude, enough to clear tall grass, low trees and little birdies. . .and allow the airspeed to increase to a respectable level for a 1000'fpm climb rate. By the time I was at 4000' I was at 300kias. I flew like that (adjusting the RPM's to 2400 and MP to 45in) and flew from Nantucket to Logan. Then I decided to take the flight to Loring, Maine and so I began a climb to 24,500 (just below critical altitude). I maintained a climb rate of a rock steady 1000fpm at an airspeed of 300kts. It took an additional 120nm to make it to 24,500 and then leveled off and again adjusted the RPM's to 2200 and the MP to 42in which gave me a ground speed of 412kts. I failed to keep an eye on my distance to Loring and after fiddling in the forums a bit found myself just 54nm from my destination and still humming along at 24,500, lol. I set the descent to 3000fpm, pulled the rpm and Mp settings back to keep things respectable and when I was 10nm out I was just under 4000' (airport elev. is 750approx). . .set up for landing and touched down with nary a puff from the tires. . .a beautiful airplane. . .you should be proud of the work you did on the FDE. . .splendid.

[PRB]

I made a P-61 video! Landing at TOL, New Britain. If you're in IE you will only see a black box. Go to FF or Chrome. Don't know why yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OL4IqrA04o

[Stinger]

Works great in P3Dv4.2 Pam, nicely done!!!:applause:

[warchild]

I made a P-61 video! Landing at TOL, New Britain. If you're in IE you will only see a black box. Go to FF or Chrome. Don't know why yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OL4IqrA04o

There better be a Mai Tai and Poi waiting for you in one of those huts ::lol:: Great job on landing that bird..

[warchild]

Works great in P3Dv4.2 Pam, nicely done!!!:applause:

Thanks Stinger :) glad your enjoying it ..

[warchild]

Pam, I normally don't fly with anything checked that will cause me to have a bad flight (crash detection, engine exploding, airframe coming apart in mid-air, etc), lol. However after reading all the previous posts and all the adjustments people are making to the airfile and cfg file I decided to do my worst and check everything available.

Amazingly, your description above matches what I found without doing anything other than simply "Flying the airplane". . .what a concept, lol. I also level off after gaining some altitude, enough to clear tall grass, low trees and little birdies. . .and allow the airspeed to increase to a respectable level for a 1000'fpm climb rate. By the time I was at 4000' I was at 300kias. I flew like that (adjusting the RPM's to 2400 and MP to 45in) and flew from Nantucket to Logan. Then I decided to take the flight to Loring, Maine and so I began a climb to 24,500 (just below critical altitude). I maintained a climb rate of a rock steady 1000fpm at an airspeed of 300kts. It took an additional 120nm to make it to 24,500 and then leveled off and again adjusted the RPM's to 2200 and the MP to 42in which gave me a ground speed of 412kts. I failed to keep an eye on my distance to Loring and after fiddling in the forums a bit found myself just 54nm from my destination and still humming along at 24,500, lol. I set the descent to 3000fpm, pulled the rpm and Mp settings back to keep things respectable and when I was 10nm out I was just under 4000' (airport elev. is 750approx). . .set up for landing and touched down with nary a puff from the tires. . .a beautiful airplane. . .you should be proud of the work you did on the FDE. . .splendid.

Thanks Ed.. I'm very proud of her.. Theres a few gotcha's that popped up that have me scratching my head still, but i'll get those ironed out and update everyone. Nothing manjor.. Just you knoiw, accelerate down the runway and the plane suddenly decides it has to go exploring to the left and nothing you do can change itszs mind.. I'll figure it out though, i promise..
Love your flight description. I was flying out of dulles looking for trouble today. Found it too, about forty miles northeast. It had everything. super cell, wall cloud rain wrapped area where a funnel should have been, but no funnel, and the worst rear flank downdraft i've ever seen. stopped the plane dead, and smashed me too the ground.. It was amazing ::LOL:: I'm going to make a special version of the thunderstorm plane outfitted with weather radar, gps, and an efb where i can tie into the web and download the latest doppler returns from the NOAA. Then i'm going hunting and blending real world storm chasing, with in sim storm chasing.. :).. I've loved this plane since the day Rick first gave it to Robert and I, in all of its incarnations.. I cant tell you how much it means to see so many enjoying it. And you. Your a vet, my brother in arms, AND a pilot who just happens to fly the occasional relief mission after a hurricane.. Your special Ed. And i want to thank you.. :)

https://i.imgur.com/1XEPAx7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mP2jrJP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/K2mJ58q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PPYHZvJ.jpg

[RKinkor]

Excellent flyer all around but I have noticed that the props seem to turn the wrong way at start and running to I suppose. By wrong way I mean against the angle of the prop if that makes sense. They are turning to the port wing tip but the blades show they should be turning to starboard. Otherwise been having a lot of fun with your splendid fde, Pam!

[warchild]

Excellent flyer all around but I have noticed that the props seem to turn the wrong way at start and running to I suppose. By wrong way I mean against the angle of the prop if that makes sense. They are turning to the port wing tip but the blades show they should be turning to starboard. Otherwise been having a lot of fun with your splendid fde, Pam!

I had initially reversed one prop to help troubleshoot the problem where the plane pulled to the left, but it took your comment to spur me into going through and finding the culprit.. For that, I thank you. However, my cat is not happy.. Your astute observation and the resulting inspiration lead me to change my position as i opened the files to edit, and that woke him up as he was sleeping on my lap.. Poor kitty ::ROFLMAO:: The solution is below.. Thank you for that.
Pam

[warchild]

All of us have been having problems with the plane pulling to the left on takeoff.. My bad.
Would you all please open your aircraft.cfg file in notepad or notepad++?

Scrolling down to the [Propeller] section locate the line that reads "rotation=" and change it to read "rotation= 1,1.

Next scroll down too [AntiDetonation System.0] and on the lines that read "reservoir_size = 48 ; gallons" AND " flow_rate = 1.3 ; gallons per minute" delete the ;'s and replace them with double back slashes (//).
Thats it. go fly
I do apologize for missing the typo's.
Another update will be coming in a few days..

Pam

[falcon409]

Pam, does this setting require the change as well?

reservoir_position = 0, 0, -1.8 ; long (+ is fore), lat (+ is right), vert

[RKinkor]

I had initially reversed one prop to help troubleshoot the problem where the plane pulled to the left, but it took your comment to spur me into going through and finding the culprit.. For that, I thank you. However, my cat is not happy.. Your astute observation and the resulting inspiration lead me to change my position as i opened the files to edit, and that woke him up as he was sleeping on my lap.. Poor kitty ::ROFLMAO:: The solution is below.. Thank you for that.
Pam
Lol I know how that is as well! I say to the cat, I have get up, Cat says no you don't.

[RKinkor]

All of us have been having problems with the plane pulling to the left on takeoff.. My bad.
Would you all please open your aircraft.cfg file in notepad or notepad++?

Scrolling down to the [Propeller] section locate the line that reads "rotation=" and change it to read "rotation= 1,1.

Next scroll down too [AntiDetonation System.0] and on the lines that read "reservoir_size = 48 ; gallons" AND " flow_rate = 1.3 ; gallons per minute" delete the ;'s and replace them with double back slashes (//).
Thats it. go fly
I do apologize for missing the typo's.
Another update will be coming in a few days..

Pam
Thank you!

[warchild]

Pam, does this setting require the change as well?

reservoir_position = 0, 0, -1.8 ; long (+ is fore), lat (+ is right), vert

ooo ooooooo.. My bad.. yes. please get rid of that semicolon.. Semicolons are fine in fsx, but p3d throws a major fit..

[warchild]

Thank you!

And thank you, and everyone for your patience and continued support. :) its greatly appreciated..

[warchild]

Lol I know how that is as well! I say to the cat, I have get up, Cat says no you don't.

::LOL:: yup! :)

[warchild]

Well, this went a little better than expected, so here it is, a little bit sooner than expected..

Zippy!:
backup your aircraft.cfg file. Once you install this new Aircraft.cfg copy the [contacts] from the old config file into this new one.

DevOne!: Your ahead of the game. Your napkin back MOI's were damned good.. So good, I used them. Make a backup of your current fde before replacing the files with this one and make adjustments as you see fit.

Everybody else!::: Make backup copies of your existing FDE and then delete the current aircraft.cfg and P-61C.air files. copy the update files from the zip file into your Northrop P-61C Blackwidow directory. Then go fly and have fun.

Love you all..

Pam

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7ng6qcrjd0ojkj/Northrop%20P-61C_FDE-2.5.zip?dl=0

[falcon409]

NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol

A few other notes: This may be something everyone in the world is aware of except me, however: If, after taking off with the Blackwidow, you decide to set your autopilot for a particular altitude, be aware of what your current altitude is, lol

I set mine for 4000' not realizing I was already at 5200. The autopilot correctly set for a 1000' descent. . .In my wisdom I said. . ."That's not right I need to climb" and reset the AP for a 1000' climb. . .which it did. . .and continued to climb to 7000' before I caught it. So despite the preset altitude of 4000', you can override it even though initially the AP knew it needed to descend.

The pulling to the left (or right) is quite irritating and the only way I've found to combat that is to kill (or greatly reduce) the realism settings for "Torque, P-Factor and Gyroscopic Precession", 3 three factors that cause it. Yea it's not "realistic" but I'm in this to enjoy flying. . .that isn't enjoyable.

Finally for Dean. . .for those of us (there are many) who don't use Tac_pac. . .being able to utilize the entire area alloted for the radar screen would be great. As it is right now the placeholder for the usable area is too small and needs to be extended to the outter limits of the box that was built to place the tac-pac radar on. . .if I were to actually measure it in a real cockpit there is about 1" on each side and 2" top and bottom that is unusable which greatly decreases the area we could use to place our own working radar or weather radar and have it be readable. If I need to I can take a screenshot of the radar I have in mine to illustrate.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g84/ejwells409/radar%20screen.jpg

The radar I'm using has too many small information blocks really. . .everything is too small to read at a glance and I'll probably go back to a simple airborne radar screen, but this illustrates how much unusable area there is as it stands right now.

[gaab]

ooo ooooooo.. My bad.. yes. please get rid of that semicolon.. Semicolons are fine in fsx, but p3d throws a major fit..

Are you REALLY sure ? Checking aircraft.cfg files in P3D V4, I found that the majority (if not all) have several comment with ;

Just my two cents.

Gérard

[MrZippy]

Well, this went a little better than expected, so here it is, a little bit sooner than expected..

Zippy!:
backup your aircraft.cfg file. Once you install this new Aircraft.cfg copy the [contacts] from the old config file into this new one.


Love you all..

Pam

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7ng6qcrjd0ojkj/Northrop%20P-61C_FDE-2.5.zip?dl=0

Changes made and will test after breakfast! Thanks for your diligence. Hope you are feeling better:wavey:

[warchild]

Of course I could be incorrect, but i find it difficult to argue against the observed evidence that when you shange the semicolons to backslashes in this fde, the plane accelerates along a straight line during takeoff, iinstead of pulling itself off the runway by veering left.
I could be incorrect, and there may indeed be some supernatural magic hoodoo going on that providence has lain upon my shoulders that i simply dont understand, but I dont think so.. Still, you provide evidence to support the notion that a semicolon is merely a device to seperate comments from instructions. As I said. I could be incorrect, but it appears to be working in this FDE..

[warchild]

Changes made and will test after breakfast! Thanks for your diligence. Hope you are feeling better:wavey:

Thanks Zippy. I wish i did feel better. I'll try something later on that hopefully will help ( heat ). That'll at least feel good :)..

[warchild]

NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol

The pulling to the left (or right) is quite irritating and the only way I've found to combat that is to kill (or greatly reduce) the realism settings for "Torque, P-Factor and Gyroscopic Precession", 3 three factors that cause it. Yea it's not "realistic" but I'm in this to enjoy flying. . .that isn't enjoyable..

I eliminated those Ed, and the plane kept pulling left. Thats when i noticed the semicolons and changed them and the plane started behaving properly. Trust when I say that I find that pull to the left equally as irratating, and perplexing as i want this to be a good flight model everyone enjoys. Believe me. theres nothing quite so humbling or humiliating than spending years on a beautiful gift for everyone, only to have it crumble to dust when you deliver it.

[Seahawk72s]

Pam,
Not sure what other differences there may be but aircraft.cfg update is dated ( May 2018 ).
Published in zip package is ( August 2018 )

[warchild]

Pam,
Not sure what other differences there may be but aircraft.cfg update is dated ( May 2018 ).
Published in zip package is ( August 2018 )

Half of that query is easy to answer. I develop in P3D and only copy over to FSX as needed. That would in general create the opportunity for a latency between sims to exist. However, you use fsx so i'm a bit confused.
The plane was released with FDE version 2.0 dated august 6th 2018. Zippy recieved versions 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 as we attempted to correct the issues he was seeing. Version 2.4 existed as only a backup in case version 2.3 didnt work for Zippy, and the update is 2.5 dated yesterday.
The earliest version of the FDE ( 1.0 ) is dated july 15th 2018. There has never been a release done during may. Only the readme file had a date of May 7th 2018. I'm a bit lost into where your aircraft.cfg came from and how it exists to begin with. I recommend you make backups of that fde and then use the FDE supplied in the update instead of those old files..

[Seahawk72s]

Half of that query is easy to answer. I develop in P3D and only copy over to FSX as needed. That would in general create the opportunity for a latency between sims to exist. However, you use fsx so i'm a bit confused.
The plane was released with FDE version 2.0 dated august 6th 2018. Zippy recieved versions 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 as we attempted to correct the issues he was seeing. Version 2.4 existed as only a backup in case version 2.3 didnt work for Zippy, and the update is 2.5 dated yesterday.
The earliest version of the FDE ( 1.0 ) is dated july 15th 2018. There has never been a release done during may. Only the readme file had a date of May 7th 2018. I'm a bit lost into where your aircraft.cfg came from and how it exists to begin with. I recommend you make backups of that fde and then use the FDE supplied in the update instead of those old files..

Sorry for the confusion. I was only talking about the aircraft.cfg not the FDE.

[warchild]

Sorry for the confusion. I was only talking about the aircraft.cfg not the FDE.
I know.. But you see, the files in the fde, follow the version and date of the fde itself. So for instance, FDE v1.0 dated 7/15/2018 has files in it dated 7/15/2018, While FDE v1.29 dated 7/30/2018 contains one file dated 7/29/2018 and one file dated 7/30/2018. The files inside the FDE are almost always in near lockstep with the FDE itself. Thats what makes you having a file dated in may that much more of a conundrum. I didnt release anything in may, unless it was a one off on the rf-61 reporter, which is a possibility, although you would see an amazing difference between the two.

[Dev One]

Thanks Pam.
Have tried & as is my usual twiddling self, done some. Still had problems with the cold & dark props rotating, so Table 509 came in for some testing. In the end I had to change table 509; X=+500 to -500, & Y at that value to -12. the next value becomes X=+500 with a Y=+12, The remainder stays as is.

In the cfg I had to change the min throttle limit from -0.25 to +0.1 otherwise the engines stopped after a little while. In order to get the props to be nearly synced with the sound on stopping I had to reduce the Prop MoI to 35 (was 135).

For more rudder authority, so one can sideslip or crosswind landing, in table 1101 Cn beta Yaw Moment, I made this 1000,(was 2765) & increased Cn_dr Yaw Moment-Rudder Control to 450 (was 263). Could still do with a bit more authority, but its a balance against taxying, even so I've had to reduce the steer angle to 15° in the contact points otherwise its too easy to oversteer. Yaw stability in Flight Tuning I've changed to 1.0 from 1.63. I find she flies straight with no problems.

I noticed that the Braking strength value in 1101 was -32768, so changed that to positive, I think it made a bit of difference to the amount of power one can apply before the wheels skid.....
One horrible thing I've not been able to resolve is if one over rotates on take off the tail dives underground & to all purposes one has crashed.

Recovery from a stall also takes a long time! Need a lot of height!

Otherwise I'm having a great time with her, a nice change from my usual light aircraft performance - thanks again.
Regards
Keith

[falcon409]

I eliminated those Ed, and the plane kept pulling left. Thats when i noticed the semicolons and changed them and the plane started behaving properly. Trust when I say that I find that pull to the left equally as irratating, and perplexing as i want this to be a good flight model everyone enjoys. Believe me. theres nothing quite so humbling or humiliating than spending years on a beautiful gift for everyone, only to have it crumble to dust when you deliver it.
For me, even with the updates you supplied this morning it still pulls incredibly hard, thus my decision to eliminate the three realism settings. The other things I noticed (1) If I taxi below 15kts the airplane will track straight. . .above that and it gradually begins to pull. (2) Despite setting the contact point for the nosewheel to allow nosewheel steering rather than differential steering unless I taxi very slowly it will react as though differential steering is required. . .which because of my control setup means hitting the brakes to turn.

[warchild]

For me, even with the updates you supplied this morning it still pulls incredibly hard, thus my decision to eliminate the three realism settings. The other things I noticed (1) If I taxi below 15kts the airplane will track straight. . .above that and it gradually begins to pull. (2) Despite setting the contact point for the nosewheel to allow nosewheel steering rather than differential steering unless I taxi very slowly it will react as though differential steering is required. . .which because of my control setup means hitting the brakes to turn.

Your using FSX. Know how I can tell?? Because the update does the same exact thing in my fsx as it does in yours. I just dont get it. It works perfectly in P3D, and completely fails in FSX. Meanwhile, the FDE for Roberts P-61B works perfectly well in both p3d and fsx, and its the same FDE.. I'll tell ya Ed. I'm not a drinker, but what i'd give for a bottle of scotch right now.. Let me go through the FDE and all the notes here amd see if i can find a clue as to whats going on..

[MrZippy]

It's pretty much spot on perfect in my FSX, Pam! No hard pulls in either direction on the takeoff roll. Smooth as butter with the A/P turned on climbing out at 1000 feet/Min and levels off smoothly at the desired altitude.

Happy camper time:applause: :ernaehrung004:

I will try some taxi tests later while I'm mucking around with trying to install a radar.

[docjohnson]

@Warchild, I had to give up scotch because it causes me to have alcohol poisoning! <laughing> But my favorite is the Famous Grouse or as they call it in Scotland "Low Flyer" (I'm ~70% Scottish by ancestry). When I first drank it in Edzell Scotland the barkeep said it was the standard bar scotch. Oh sorry, vivid memories...Keep at it you'll figure the FDE out.

[Seahawk72s]

I know.. But you see, the files in the fde, follow the version and date of the fde itself. So for instance, FDE v1.0 dated 7/15/2018 has files in it dated 7/15/2018, While FDE v1.29 dated 7/30/2018 contains one file dated 7/29/2018 and one file dated 7/30/2018. The files inside the FDE are almost always in near lockstep with the FDE itself. Thats what makes you having a file dated in may that much more of a conundrum. I didnt release anything in may, unless it was a one off on the rf-61 reporter, which is a possibility, although you would see an amazing difference between the two.

Hi,
The aircraft.cfg you supplied as an update this morning, "Northrop P-61C_FDE-2.5.zip" has ( May 2018 ).

[warchild]

For me, even with the updates you supplied this morning it still pulls incredibly hard, thus my decision to eliminate the three realism settings. The other things I noticed (1) If I taxi below 15kts the airplane will track straight. . .above that and it gradually begins to pull. (2) Despite setting the contact point for the nosewheel to allow nosewheel steering rather than differential steering unless I taxi very slowly it will react as though differential steering is required. . .which because of my control setup means hitting the brakes to turn.

Ed!
I'm sorry to put you through this, but i need you to do two things for me and then report your experience..
1.
In the aircraft.cfg file, go to the [Propeller] section. Under that heading is an entry called "prop_sync_available". Set it to "1"

then

2.
Under [Piston Engine] find the entry titled "idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar" and change its value to "0.689"

then give it a try and let me know. Yeah, I know it sounds absolutely insane, But i just did several tests in FSX SE and it works for me.. The theory is, those props weigh about a thousand pounds each, and if they get out of synch, one prop will become dominant providing more thrust and causing the plane to turn.
let me know if that works or if i've completely gone over the edge. Ok??
Thanks.
Pam

[warchild]

Hi,
The aircraft.cfg you supplied as an update this morning, "Northrop P-61C_FDE-2.5.zip" has ( May 2018 ).

Ummm, Where are you seeing this?? heres what i released this morning..

https://i.imgur.com/8xukygY.jpg

[falcon409]

Ed!
I'm sorry to put you through this, but i need you to do two things for me and then report your experience..
1.
In the aircraft.cfg file, go to the [Propeller] section. Under that heading is an entry called "prop_sync_available". Set it to "1"

then

2.
Under [Piston Engine] find the entry titled "idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar" and change its value to "0.689"

then give it a try and let me know. Yeah, I know it sounds absolutely insane, But i just did several tests in FSX SE and it works for me.. The theory is, those props weigh about a thousand pounds each, and if they get out of synch, one prop will become dominant providing more thrust and causing the plane to turn.
let me know if that works or if i've completely gone over the edge. Ok??
Thanks.
Pam
Loading FSX now. . .by the way, this is what my [piston_engine] section was already set to (this is your aircraft.cfg from this morning). . .

max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=0.689 //1
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=0.689 //1

[warchild]

It's pretty much spot on perfect in my FSX, Pam! No hard pulls in either direction on the takeoff roll. Smooth as butter with the A/P turned on climbing out at 1000 feet/Min and levels off smoothly at the desired altitude.

Happy camper time:applause: :ernaehrung004:

I will try some taxi tests later while I'm mucking around with trying to install a radar.

Thats absolutely awesome news Zippy :) :).. Thanks for letting me know..

[blanston12]

I downloaded and tried it late last night and also had the problem holding it on the runway, full rudder one way and it would still turn rapidly in the other direction. Then I noticed I still had activesky/real world weather active and there was an 11 kn cross wind. I turned off activesky and reset for fair weather with no wind and was able to takeoff straight.

This morning I tried again, winds 8 kn at 240 degrees using runway 27 and could barely keep her on the runway, but was able to safely takeoff. Changed the wind to an 8 kn crosswind and there was no way I could keep it on the runway.

I hope this information helps debug things, its a great aircraft.

I was using P3D v4.3

[falcon409]

No change Pam. Actually at any speed above 15kts, if there was enough area, it would do a complete circle. It requires full right rudder and braking to bring it back in line.

[warchild]

This is supposed to have quoted you.. ::sigh:: Just one more weird anomoly to deal with today..
Anywayyyy..
I can see why you made changes too things like the minimum throttle. You see, As I was telling Falcon409, those props weigh upwwards of a thousand pounds each. When you set the MOI to 35 slug pounds of force, you gave them all the weight of a cessna's prop. The engine actually has more friction on the shaft than that prop can develop, and thats why your engine dies. Your using a butterfly to pull a freight train so to speak. Now, an MOI of 135 Slugs is what is correct for the P-61B which still uses a Hamilton Standard electric prop, but its a normal prop. The props on the P-61C are paddle props and almost a full foot wider at the apex. They weigh far more than the P-61bs and require a lot more effort to overcome their inertia. What your doing has set you on a course that will at some point end up in disaster.. Trust me. I'm an expert at blindly creating disasters.. Setting the prop moi back ti 135 should give you an rpm oif 800 for idle. If it doesnt ( which I still think may be accel or SP2 related ) then go to the [Piston Engine] section, and increase the Idle mechanical efficiency. That should at least get you running.
And if this browsers weirdness ever goes away I'll be able to post quotes and converse more directly with you..

[warchild]

No change Pam. Actually at any speed above 15kts, if there was enough area, it would do a complete circle. It requires full right rudder and braking to bring it back in line.

Thanks Ed.
I'm really sorry.. Let me jump back into it and see what i can see..

[MrZippy]

Ummm, Where are you seeing this?? heres what i released this morning..

https://i.imgur.com/8xukygY.jpg

These are what I show, also!

[Seahawk72s]

Ummm, Where are you seeing this?? heres what i released this morning..



Hi,
Open the aircraft.cfg, at the top of the page. See screen shot.

Also from a remark made by falcon409, message # 126, where he notes a wrong texture location.
"NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol"

I think this might indicate that an older aircraft.cfg was being used and not the release version.

[Seahawk72s]

Waiting for the paint kit and the texture "pros" to start their magic.

[warchild]

Hey Ed??
I dont mean any offense but when was the last time you calibrated your joystick/yoke??

[warchild]

Hi,
Open the aircraft.cfg, at the top of the page. See screen shot.

Also from a remark made by falcon409, message # 126, where he notes a wrong texture location.
"NOTE: the texture name for "texture.791" has changed to "texture.Baremetal". Make that change to your texture folder or the Sim won't display that airplane, lol"

I think this might indicate that an older aircraft.cfg was being used and not the release version.

OHHHHH.. No.. That was a notation by Dean. When he started on the P-61C he used the fde from the RF-61 as a starting point. I yanked the guts out of it leaving only the flightsim and camera entries, and put in the FDE from roberts plane. THATS why it says May 2018. Thats when he started on the P-61C. I just havent changed it because its just a notation and serves no purpose..

[warchild]

Waiting for the paint kit and the texture "pros" to start their magic.

Pssssst.. she wore red ::LOL:: Great paint job :) thank hyou..

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/775/pics/3_8_a1.jpg

I can only theorize that this was the inspiration for the plane and the nose art..

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjMxOTExNTI2Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMjk2Mzc0MjE@._ V1_.jpg

[SH427]

once the kit arrives I have a handful of "B" nosearts I want to throw on and, of course, one for my personal plane, which I make for every A/C once I take a liking to it :encouragement:

[Dev One]

This is supposed to have quoted you.. ::sigh:: Just one more weird anomoly to deal with today..
Anywayyyy..
I can see why you made changes too things like the minimum throttle. You see, As I was telling Falcon409, those props weigh upwwards of a thousand pounds each. When you set the MOI to 35 slug pounds of force, you gave them all the weight of a cessna's prop. The engine actually has more friction on the shaft than that prop can develop, and thats why your engine dies. Your using a butterfly to pull a freight train so to speak. Now, an MOI of 135 Slugs is what is correct for the P-61B which still uses a Hamilton Standard electric prop, but its a normal prop. The props on the P-61C are paddle props and almost a full foot wider at the apex. They weigh far more than the P-61bs and require a lot more effort to overcome their inertia. What your doing has set you on a course that will at some point end up in disaster.. Trust me. I'm an expert at blindly creating disasters.. Setting the prop moi back ti 135 should give you an rpm oif 800 for idle. If it doesnt ( which I still think may be accel or SP2 related ) then go to the [Piston Engine] section, and increase the Idle mechanical efficiency. That should at least get you running.
And if this browsers weirdness ever goes away I'll be able to post quotes and converse more directly with you..

Yes I understand Pam, but it seems that reducing the MoI is the only way I know to make the prop slow down more quickly, having said that maybe the 0.689 efficiency scalar might have an effect corelated with values in table 509? - Something else to try. I might also light up my old 'puter & try it in FSXA which I assume Falcon is using as opposed to me using SP2.

Seems rudder authority needs a bit of tweaking with others not able to cope with a crosswind.

Interesting...... ain't it - & not only with Rowan & Martin!
Regards
Keith

[Seahawk72s]

OHHHHH.. No.. That was a notation by Dean. When he started on the P-61C he used the fde from the RF-61 as a starting point. I yanked the guts out of it leaving only the flightsim and camera entries, and put in the FDE from roberts plane. THATS why it says May 2018. Thats when he started on the P-61C. I just havent changed it because its just a notation and serves no purpose..

Except for the fact that the sim entry is wrong...

[warchild]

Except for the fact that the sim entry is wrong...

Where??? The very top where it says may?? Everything else on that page is correct.
So, the creator of the model, decides to notate this as an rf-61C in and FDE i spent thousands of hours working on ( about 5.5 actual years ) and you wanna bust my chops for it.. You dont like it, change it to something else. Simple as that. You know why i only worked on the fde 5 years and it took 8 years to get it too you?? Its because i got tired of the absolute bullhocky like this that was happening and I left simming. I'm sorry the notation is wrong. Tell Dean.. I'm sorry the XB-35 wasnt finished. Find someone whose good with MCX and Gauges, I'm not. I go the mile and more for all of you on a daily basis because i really DO care about this community. Give me a flippin break..

[falcon409]

I guess at this point a full setup description is in order:

I have been using FSX/Accel for all but one flight (I also have P3D_V4.2 but rarely fly it).
I have a CH Pro Throttle with one control so I do not have the ability to regulate individual engine settings (dual throttles)
I have a fairly new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick with twist grip (the normal throttle tab on that is mapped to Prop Axis)

Both controllers were calibrated a few days ago after I woke one morning to discover that both controllers had lost all the mapping and had been reset to default (a PITA).

I always fly with realism settings "middle of the road". Crash detection off, Engine damage off, Aircraft stress off, automixture on, gyro drift off, unlimited fuel off and so on and so forth. However for this airplane I turned all damage and stress settings on and did my level best to fly with the intent of making it home alive.

I also have a weather program (FSRealWX_Pro) which I rarely use and several REX Programs. . .also rarely used. So in fact, whenever I fly on a normal basis I have "0" wind so that is a non-factor related to the inability to control the airplane during taxi (above 15kts) or take off roll.

I do have now and actually have from the start, had a sound running in the VC with engines off, reminiscent of an old car I had as a kid that wouldn't shut off after I had removed the key. . .something we referred to as "dieseling". It's not heard from the exterior. . .only in the VC.

I think that about covers everything.

[Seahawk72s]

Pssssst.. she wore red ::LOL:: Great paint job :) thank hyou..



I can only theorize that this was the inspiration for the plane and the nose art..



Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

[warchild]

Yes I understand Pam, but it seems that reducing the MoI is the only way I know to make the prop slow down more quickly, having said that maybe the 0.689 efficiency scalar might have an effect corelated with values in table 509? - Something else to try. I might also light up my old 'puter & try it in FSXA which I assume Falcon is using as opposed to me using SP2.

Seems rudder authority needs a bit of tweaking with others not able to cope with a crosswind.

Interesting...... ain't it - & not only with Rowan & Martin!
Regards
Keith

YAYYY.. Its posting quotes..

Just remember it's not going to have a lot of rudder. thats because most of the mass is carried by the booms which are something like 24 feet apart or so ( blatant guess ). it was designed that way specifically to stabilize its yaw, because its much harder to tip a block than it is a stick. Still, your correct. There is far too little rudder authority at the moment ( i cant even do a half arsed hammerhead ). Let me know how it goes. After my outburst towards Seahawk, I'm gonna take a day or so to chill and get my perspective back..

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Yeahh, It looks good in blue. It's always been a debate whether she wore red or blue and its been a debate in circles we cant even think of belonging too.. Personally, I still believe Ginger Rogers was the original Lady in the Dark, and she wore red, but really, whether it was red or blue is down to a matter of personal taste now as everyone involved is passed, and they never said either; taking a rather mischievous bit of humor over it..

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Hey.. I found something for you and your grandchildren.. Keep it safe..

http://www.mission4today.com/uploads/DL2012//47_lady%20dark%20color%20from%20film_2.jpg

It's Blue. She's Blue :) :) :)

[warchild]

I guess at this point a full setup description is in order:

I have been using FSX/Accel for all but one flight (I also have P3D_V4.2 but rarely fly it).
I have a CH Pro Throttle with one control so I do not have the ability to regulate individual engine settings (dual throttles)
I have a fairly new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick with twist grip (the normal throttle tab on that is mapped to Prop Axis)

Both controllers were calibrated a few days ago after I woke one morning to discover that both controllers had lost all the mapping and had been reset to default (a PITA).

I always fly with realism settings "middle of the road". Crash detection off, Engine damage off, Aircraft stress off, automixture on, gyro drift off, unlimited fuel off and so on and so forth. However for this airplane I turned all damage and stress settings on and did my level best to fly with the intent of making it home alive.

I also have a weather program (FSRealWX_Pro) which I rarely use and several REX Programs. . .also rarely used. So in fact, whenever I fly on a normal basis I have "0" wind so that is a non-factor related to the inability to control the airplane during taxi (above 15kts) or take off roll.

I do have now and actually have from the start, had a sound running in the VC with engines off, reminiscent of an old car I had as a kid that wouldn't shut off after I had removed the key. . .something we referred to as "dieseling". It's not heard from the exterior. . .only in the VC.

I think that about covers everything.

The sound in the VC is the fuel pump. If you turn on the booster pumps, the sound changes but never actually goes away until the engines are started. its kind of like the pumps ran dry and are sucking air.

I can sympathize with a complete controller reconfig, and these days, with the X-65 iii climb in a plane and its basically re-calibrate the joystick..
Let me drop down to a single throttle and see what happens. that kinda tweaked a bone when you mentioned that so i want to investigate a bit more..

[falcon409]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

[simtech]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

[warchild]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

It perfectly reflects my own initial experience, though mine was in P3Dv4. And then when you go into fsx, that very same fde turns into a monster. Just sent you a PM. Its for FSX..
My suspicion however I've been cautious about sharing because a lot of people wouldnt like it. The problem isnt with the plane directly, but rather its with the way the specific version of FSX interprets the data. ( i.e. SP2 is nearly ten years old now. Accel is nearly ten years old nowTheres problems that pop up in accel that SP2 never sees and vice versa. and then theres SE ). Now, the only thing all of these versions have in common is that they ARE ALL BASED ON ms esp, which was designed to assist efficiency experts design offices and factory floors and set up the actual workflow within the buildings.
However, I started poking around esp towards the beginning of 2009 ( about when i started to get cocky, and somewhat good ) and I discovered some non documented ( for fsx ) abilities it had and started making use of them. Some of those featuures still exist in fsx and p3d, only we no longer know if the sim is interpreting the data and executing some of those undocumented features or not. It would appear like something weird and unexplainable happened for the better, or worse..
The fact that you and I can fly it in P3D simply proves we can fly it in P3D. Meanwhile, unless the version I just sent you magically works, FSX is still broken and i havent got a single lead.. But we'll figure it out.. :)
Pam

[warchild]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.
I will find a way to fix it. I promise :)..

[falcon409]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

[warchild]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

The harder i turn left to stay on the runway, the harder it pulls right. The harder i turn right to keep it on the runway, the harder it pulls left.
If this were yesterday, I'd be calling for dean to fix the code becsause this is certsainly something in the way the yoke compiled, BUT, That fde is the one i've used since godawful early this morning, and it works perfectly and much to my amazement, on my fsx:SE. But will it work after I reboot?? Who knows??? I'm not saying the compile is off the hook yet, but the fact mines working and the same exact copy doesnt work on your machine, certainly puts a damper on the compile theory.
Yeahhh, the same exact copy, uploaded to dropbox. The only major differences here are fsx SE and FSX SP2.
Damn my memory. Damn it o hell.. Someone above just mentioned it works perfectly on accelleration. Was accel pre or post sp2??
It's not that FSX is dearly loved, even though it is, amd its not that FSX is familiar and comfortable, even though it is. It's that P3D is black, and its layout is more like a parts catalog than a friendly kiosk, and it almost insists on loading the aircraft first instead of letting you create your scenario from a blanck slate in the opening kiosk. I dont know about anyone else, but I remember when in fsx if you changed aircraft once one was loaded, the aircraft you changed too retained some of the previous aircrafts traits. Try changing from a cessna to a yf-23 and see how well it handles regardless of who created it. That was the old FSX. P3D is about as friendly as a dentist. Just open up and say ahhhh. This'll hurt a little bit.. Uh huh.. So I cant recommend you migrate to P3D, and yet, it works. FSX SE, seems to work, and its reported FSX: Acceleration works. I will keep plugging away, but it's looking a bit like its a version problem, but only a bit. I'm still lost and reaching for straws hoping to find a little wisdom here..
Pam

[falcon409]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

[warchild]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.
Ok Ed. Sounds good. I think youll enjoy 4.3. It was a bit of a headache installing it, but it works pretty well and as I joke with Mark, it looks more like FSX than FSX.. you might want to consider envtex and envshade. they go a long way to enhancing immersion..

[MrZippy]

Just to re-iterate, all is well in FSX SP2. Taxi, takeoff, flying, slowing for a landing, CRASHING...dammit, if I pay attention, then landing is fine also.:applause:

[warchild]

Welllll, to be honest, I'm not completely happy. The near identiczal twin of this FDE for Roberts P-61B runs fine on all platforms. Ironically, it was developed on FSX: Acceleration. Theres a lot of things that have popped up the last couple days that I dont understand, or do not have the capacity to understand any longer. Falcon409's issues being one of them. Why does it worrk on my machine and not his?? Why would the P-61B's fde work on any machine and the P-61C's wont. Do I need to go back to using FSX for development and port it up to P3D?? I made something I was incredibly proud of. The very best FDE I had ever made, and in less that a day i've been made to feel like a complete failure who produces nothing but manure. I feel that I failed everyone, but especially, myself. Its a hard pill to swallow..

[warchild]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

Yeah but, you shouldnt have to use something you dont like.. That saddens me. it means you may not fly the plane as often nor enjoy it as much. zNaturally, I want everyone to enjoy my plane, all the time ::lol::.. Well, Deans Plane.. I still want to solve this, but without access to a lab with all versions available, testing is a one sided deal. Even amongst the wonderful people here who have reported their findings, there are anomolies. zit works on Accell, and one SP2, it fails on another Sp2. Why??

[warchild]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

I wonder, I fly with realism set to 100% on all controls. Falcon flies at 50%. I'm willing to bet theres some correlation between reality settings and degrees of pull, but there just isnt enough evidence too support it. Also, Falcon isnt the only one to see the reversed rudder problem. I've seen it too.. You steer left it goes right, Steer right it goes left, just like the issues the 737s had a long time ago. I just dont know..

[PhantomTweak]

I'm willing to bet there's some correlation between reality settings and degrees of pull
Actually, there is, and evidence to support it. Many of the formulae utilized in the .air file work differently with the Realism sliders below 100% than when the sliders ARE up to 100%. 99% is the same as 1% to these formulae. But it does matter.
This information is taken from Yves Guillaume's great PDF, Flight Dynamics in MSFS V1.0. A truly amazing work for those who are willing to put some mental effort into adjusting .air file settings. It's for FS9 and FSX, not P3D though, so be aware.
If you wish to use it to it's full capabilities, be ready to do some pretty advanced math, although it's not up to calculus. Algebra and trig, with maybe a little geometry thrown in.
Even without actually doing the math for yourself, the explanations Yves gives are very enlightening.
It's available on the FSDeveloper form, IIRC, and if not, it's easy enough to find on Google. Just punch in Yves name and MSFS, or something like, and it's easy to find. If you want to adjust .air file settings, I strongly suggest getting, and using it. Couple it with Airfile Manager, and you have a superb .air file adjustment setup.
I wish more devs use it. NOT pointing any fingers, it would just make things a lot easier, and more accurate, as well as saving a lot of experimentation for them.

Hope this is of a little help...
Pat☺

[Dev One]

My FSX SP2 is set for full realism on all sliders, crash detection Off, auto rudder Off, unlimited fuel, no g effects. As far as I know SP2 came before Accel, I use SP2 because my models will not accept wingfold from my FS9 portovers!
I have not experienced reversal of rudder whilst taxying & the nosewheel seems to point in the right direction! Find fast taxying twitchy to say the least.
Having rudder authority problems in the approach if off line of the runway, it just will not change track although heading changes, stability setting too high?
Will try later today with my FSXA puter & report back.
Keith

[falcon409]

I had a long post going about 10 minutes ago and then my computer decided to lock up and I lost it all. . .not going there again so I'll make this short. There are some statements I made earlier that have been misinterpreted and those need to be made clear.

1) For the sake of testing the Black Widow. . .I have had all realism sliders to full and all crash detection and similar damage boxes checked (true for both Sims). I made that statement in a previous post.
2) To be clear, when I described taxiing around my airport and noticed that a hard left turn resulted in the aircraft pulling to right after I had made the turn. . .there is no "rudder deflection" involved. I turn left and after straightening out, the plane wants to pull right. . .the rudder and nosewheel remain in a neutral position. . .conversely if I turn right and then head straight down a taxiway the airplane will pull to the left.

[DC1973]

Hi everyone, sorry for the delayed reply but I've been away,

I hope that everybody is enjoying the Widow despite the issues some have been seeing. The changes made since I last visited have caused some confusion again which is understandable considering the number of variations in people's platforms. I can't answer every question but in general here are my observations:

Textures: my own final .cfg file has not been used as a base for further alterations since the original release. Hence, the "791" textures and other important changes I made in the .cfg before release suddenly disappeared from later .cfg files released here. I did try to control which .cfgs were used but this hasn't happened and may well be behind some of the problems folks are seeing.

The Virtual Cockpit master model was unfortunately deleted, by me, in error. For this reason I won't be making any changes to the cockpit textures / VC instrument maps etc, because I can't. At some point I will convert the model and re-build the VC ( I still have the Reporter VC which acted as the base ) and will try to accommodate some of the requests made. However, in attempts to make changes based on requests I think that the model suffered a little and doesn't look as good as the Reporter did. For those wanting larger or extra VC texture maps I would suggest mapping weather radars to the RO position or modifying the panel.cfg to allow for 2D pop-up windows to achieve what you're looking for.

Prop spin direction: this is the result of real-life engineering differences in aircraft manufacture. In the UK, where I'm from, airplane props spin one way. In the USA, they spin the other way as standard. If I were charging money for the Widow and Reporter I'd alter it, but for now I don't think it's that big of a deal. I did make a note of the difference though, so that next time I don't make the same error.

I have extensively tested all of Pam's various AIR and .cfg files in both FSXA and P3D v4. I couldn't recreate any of the issues discussed here, such as jumping airplanes, jerky props, rudders etc. That doesn't of course mean that they don't happen but it's tough to know whether the model was ever at fault. I sent the model to a couple of friends to get some extra feedback and they also reported no issues. The Widow is exactly the same model as the Reporter, they just have different fuselages - nothing else changed at all other than the FDE. I'm afraid that I can't see anything that would cause all of them but the .cfg / FDE changes or differing simulator set ups.

Sorry that I can't be of more help folks, I'll be releasing the paint kit here in a day or two for those who would like to colour the plane differently :)

Cheers,

[MrZippy]

I wonder, I fly with realism set to 100% on all controls. Falcon flies at 50%. I'm willing to bet theres some correlation between reality settings and degrees of pull, but there just isnt enough evidence too support it. Also, Falcon isnt the only one to see the reversed rudder problem. I've seen it too.. You steer left it goes right, Steer right it goes left, just like the issues the 737s had a long time ago. I just dont know..

Sorry, I did forget to say all realism settings at 100% always. I have never varied from that, even when testing. If the plane veers on taxi, just a slight bit of opposite rudder brings it back. I normally taxi around 15 knots.

[Dev One]

My report re: FSXA using the V2.5 FDE of 12 Aug.

Everything works OK!!!!! Cold & dark, props stationary. Engines start OK with throttles cracked open. Taxy OK & take off straight as a die. Realism settings at 100% except for crash tolerance.
Did notice that if engines are not at same rpm & temp, which can happen if No 2 needs a manual start, then obviously if one is in too much of a hurry then there is thrust assymetry.

So for me prop cold & dark & rundown problems only exist in FSX SP2 - why Dunno!!!!

Pam you can relax a bit, Falcon, Zippy et al, it looks as if we are stuck if using SP2, although I might continue with my mods - even though the prop MoI might be horribly wrong. BTW my old Cyborg I have with that puter is horribly worn sticky & a slight out of alignment causes quite a large deflection in roll in flight! My Logitech in my normal puter is a lot better - & newer!

Keith

[Dev One]

Just a quick thought - if wanting to eliminate joystick problem, disconnect same & use keyboard keys?
Keith

[warchild]

Actually, there is, and evidence to support it. Many of the formulae utilized in the .air file work differently with the Realism sliders below 100% than when the sliders ARE up to 100%. 99% is the same as 1% to these formulae. But it does matter.
This information is taken from Yves Guillaume's great PDF, Flight Dynamics in MSFS V1.0. A truly amazing work for those who are willing to put some mental effort into adjusting .air file settings. It's for FS9 and FSX, not P3D though, so be aware.
If you wish to use it to it's full capabilities, be ready to do some pretty advanced math, although it's not up to calculus. Algebra and trig, with maybe a little geometry thrown in.
Even without actually doing the math for yourself, the explanations Yves gives are very enlightening.
It's available on the FSDeveloper form, IIRC, and if not, it's easy enough to find on Google. Just punch in Yves name and MSFS, or something like, and it's easy to find. If you want to adjust .air file settings, I strongly suggest getting, and using it. Couple it with Airfile Manager, and you have a superb .air file adjustment setup.
I wish more devs use it. NOT pointing any fingers, it would just make things a lot easier, and more accurate, as well as saving a lot of experimentation for them.

Hope this is of a little help...
Pat☺

Thanks Pat.
I've got three or four copies of it on my system and one on dropbox just in case. I'll also be putting a copy up on my minecraft server as an extra layer of protection. Its the first reference i go to when i'm setting up an fde.
Now, I would personally go a lot further than just recommending this PDF. The PDF itself was written during a period where the general paradigm was that flight sim was a "game". It SAID simulator but most people just giggled at that and didnt take it seriously. The PDF was and is a perfect reflection of the attitudes of that day. Its formulae are mostly approximations modified and simplified to be easy to use, but providing an inferior product.
Now, as i said. I keep four or five copies of this on hand as its my main goto document. But to be honest, we stopped using "game" centric physics calculations back around 2008 or 2009. There is no such thing as good enough or close enough. PMDG, A2A, Myself, Jerry Beckwith, Tom Faley, Berndt Stoley, a lot of us, Use only real life physics. My recommendation is that, if a person wants to do physics, get an education first. High school isnt enough. Get airframe and powerplant and whatever else you can gobble up from the schools because the future of simulation is reality itself. Anything less than real, is only a game..

[jankees]

wow, what a stable aircraft! It flies as if on rails!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/932/43965387992_9f0557cef6_b.jpg

euh, was there talk of a paintkit?
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1814/44013916851_32ea543b6d_b.jpg

[warchild]

Just a quick thought - if wanting to eliminate joystick problem, disconnect same & use keyboard keys?
Keith

Worth a quick try, but i'm not certain that would work. Like I was telling my associates over at Jade Island, Windows 10 updated and all of a sudden, I didnt have a problem.. I become more convinced by the moment, that the issue isnt with the plane. Its in the way the instructions from the hardware are interpreted by the system before they are handed back off to the programs api. Yeah! Its that deep. There are, off the top of my head, at least ten entries in the .air file that change several other areas of the airfile, on the fly. Those ten area's are effected by and changed by entries in the config file, and its all a big inter-relational mess that borders on the mystic more than the physical realms. Learning, and relearning how to manipulate those relationships is the key. Heh. Home for me in other words..

[warchild]

wow, what a stable aircraft! It flies as if on rails!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/932/43965387992_9f0557cef6_b.jpg

euh, was there talk of a paintkit?
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1814/44013916851_32ea543b6d_b.jpg

Yup.
When Paul and I first started the FDE back in 2010 GODS how we wanted to make this plane a challenge to fly. Here it was, the Chuck Norris of Fighterdom. The biggest baddest airplane on the block. Had to be difficult to fly right??
Wrong.
The arguments between Johnny Meyers and Northrops engineering staff became legend. He was bound and determined to make them make a plane that was stable, easily controllable and had few if any negatives working against it. It had no stall characteristics, no spin characteristics, nothing. It was the most infuriating FDE I have ever worked on, because we couldnt get creative in the normal way, we had to get creative in a completely different way. We had to make it real, and that meant milk toast boring. The plane is a magic carpet. Go ahead, find your buddies in the F6Fs and kill an engine, then embarrass the hell out of them because you can still fly circles around them. Take on a P-38 and watch it die. Get inside an FW-190s turning radious and shred him because you can turn tighter than he can.
These were the realities of the plane, recorded and reported. Its not just the FDE.
If you look up the P-61 projects thread here at SOH, youll find a ton of references to people and places and history. I felt it was mandatory that we didicate the fde to those men who flew the plane and some of them dieing in it. It had to be real, just out of respect for my own brothers in arms. Heh, ancestors of the battlefield. Trust me, your 150000 dollar cessna can be far more dangerous than this thing will ever be.
This plane WAS the Chuck Norris of fighterdom. Johnny Meyers was the Chuck Norris of Northrops P-61 division.

::LOL:: and yes, theres a paint kit coming :)

[warchild]

My report re: FSXA using the V2.5 FDE of 12 Aug.

Everything works OK!!!!! Cold & dark, props stationary. Engines start OK with throttles cracked open. Taxy OK & take off straight as a die. Realism settings at 100% except for crash tolerance.
Did notice that if engines are not at same rpm & temp, which can happen if No 2 needs a manual start, then obviously if one is in too much of a hurry then there is thrust assymetry.

So for me prop cold & dark & rundown problems only exist in FSX SP2 - why Dunno!!!!

Pam you can relax a bit, Falcon, Zippy et al, it looks as if we are stuck if using SP2, although I might continue with my mods - even though the prop MoI might be horribly wrong. BTW my old Cyborg I have with that puter is horribly worn sticky & a slight out of alignment causes quite a large deflection in roll in flight! My Logitech in my normal puter is a lot better - & newer!

Keith

::LOL:; Keith! Your a treasure.. I hope you never change and i hope you never stop what your doing.. :)

[SH427]

Well put, Pam.

I watched the "Beginner's guide to the P-61" video from 1944 about half a dozen times and I'm in awe of how easy it looked to fly. Like a giant, twin-engine 172 with even more stable flying characteristics. I'm used to flying deathtraps. I loved the ALPHA Gee Bee, the Alabeo Z, the F-104 in various configurations. I flew P-51s and P-40s like bush planes and got away with it in the sim. Then along comes this P-61 you guys made and suddenly this "flying" thing is deceptively easy. :biggrin-new:
I'm awestruck by your passion for FDE modeling Pam. You did a great job and I can't sing you enough praises.


Yup.
When Paul and I first started the FDE back in 2010 GODS how we wanted to make this plane a challenge to fly. Here it was, the Chuck Norris of Fighterdom. The biggest baddest airplane on the block. Had to be difficult to fly right??
Wrong.
The arguments between Johnny Meyers and Northrops engineering staff became legend. He was bound and determined to make them make a plane that was stable, easily controllable and had few if any negatives working against it. It had no stall characteristics, no spin characteristics, nothing. It was the most infuriating FDE I have ever worked on, because we couldnt get creative in the normal way, we had to get creative in a completely different way. We had to make it real, and that meant milk toast boring. The plane is a magic carpet. Go ahead, find your buddies in the F6Fs and kill an engine, then embarrass the hell out of them because you can still fly circles around them. Take on a P-38 and watch it die. Get inside an FW-190s turning radious and shred him because you can turn tighter than he can.
These were the realities of the plane, recorded and reported. Its not just the FDE.
If you look up the P-61 projects thread here at SOH, youll find a ton of references to people and places and history. I felt it was mandatory that we didicate the fde to those men who flew the plane and some of them dieing in it. It had to be real, just out of respect for my own brothers in arms. Heh, ancestors of the battlefield. Trust me, your 150000 dollar cessna can be far more dangerous than this thing will ever be.
This plane WAS the Chuck Norris of fighterdom. Johnny Meyers was the Chuck Norris of Northrops P-61 division.

::LOL:: and yes, theres a paint kit coming :)

[warchild]

Well put, Pam.

I watched the "Beginner's guide to the P-61" video from 1944 about half a dozen times and I'm in awe of how easy it looked to fly. Like a giant, twin-engine 172 with even more stable flying characteristics. I'm used to flying deathtraps. I loved the ALPHA Gee Bee, the Alabeo Z, the F-104 in various configurations. I flew P-51s and P-40s like bush planes and got away with it in the sim. Then along comes this P-61 you guys made and suddenly this "flying" thing is deceptively easy. :biggrin-new:
I'm awestruck by your passion for FDE modeling Pam. You did a great job and I can't sing you enough praises.

::LOL:: Yeahhh. The P-61s great claim to fame: Lose an engine on takeoff and your dead ::LOL::.. But watch out. She may have big wings with aa light wing loading ( 45 pounds/foot/2 ) but she still weights 34000 pounds.. Her electrically assisted elevator can pull you out of a lot of jams, but not all of them, and it can put you into a few. It must have been really weird being a P-61 pilot back then. You were a fighter pilot, but you werent, because your plane was twice as big as any other fighter out there. it had to be weird..

[Dev One]

::LOL:; Keith! Your a treasure.. I hope you never change and i hope you never stop what your doing.. :)

Thanks Pam, Just try stopping me - I'm a stubborn Taurean thats why. Working also as an aircraft Development Engineer doesn't help either.......as that was mainly with a UAV, one could fly it & try it.....walked away from a couple that fluttered at 520 IAS - from the control room that is.......
Keith

[jankees]

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/42210585160_4ae845fa87_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27j1hnE)jk3943 (https://flic.kr/p/27j1hnE)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1813/43113533595_5b4a83b302_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28FN8u8)jk3955 (https://flic.kr/p/28FN8u8)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1831/29082279647_924bcde5eb_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LiUhwB)jk3951 (https://flic.kr/p/LiUhwB)

[warchild]

I LOVE that Last image Jankees. Thats gorgeous..

[DC1973]

wow, what a stable aircraft! It flies as if on rails!
euh, was there talk of a paintkit?


Awesome images Jankees, glad you're enjoying the Widow! :) I'll upload the paint kit here today.


And here it is!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=222

[jankees]

xcf files? how do I open those? Photoshop doesn't like them...

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1775/44029687021_a66667834e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2a5KDYR)jk4060 (https://flic.kr/p/2a5KDYR)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1778/44029687181_9bf9bddc6e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2a5KE2B)jk4053 (https://flic.kr/p/2a5KE2B)

[warchild]

.xcf files are used by Gimp. Gimp also exports photoshop files..
Oh and, sorry it took so long to get the plsne too you.. :)

[jankees]

Ok, managed to convert them.
I also uploaded the earlier all black paintjob, check it out!
If you like it, I'd appreciate a screenie.

[DC1973]

Ok, managed to convert them.
I also uploaded the earlier all black paintjob, check it out!
If you like it, I'd appreciate a screenie.

Done, looks nice with the satin finish paintwork! :)

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62802&stc=1

[jankees]

Does the model work with spec files, I did not see any in the package?

[MrZippy]

Great paint, as always, Jan! Dean, your plane flies like the proverbial "Bat outta Hell" More fun than a barrel o' monkeys!:applause:

62811

62812

[DC1973]

Does the model work with spec files, I did not see any in the package?

The main texture folder contains a single specular that was applied to the fuselage, wings and booms, plus two Fresnel ramps: fresnel_ramp_2 is for the body work, the other is for the canopy glass and gunsight. Reflections, metallicity and other visuals are created using these and texture sheet alphas. Easy if you say it quickly enough :biggrin-new:

[DC1973]

Dean, your plane flies like the proverbial "Bat outta Hell" More fun than a barrel o' monkeys!:applause:


Thanks! :)

[jankees]

The main texture folder contains a single specular that was applied to the fuselage, wings and booms, plus two Fresnel ramps: fresnel_ramp_2 is for the body work, the other is for the canopy glass and gunsight. Reflections, metallicity and other visuals are created using these and texture sheet alphas. Easy if you say it quickly enough :biggrin-new:

so if I were to make individual spec files for all textures that would not have any effect?

[DC1973]

Replied to your PM Jan :)

[warchild]

Here ya go Jan..


https://i.imgur.com/rUxiEKR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Dc7yWpW.jpg

[jankees]

still playing with the paintkit:

bit more dirt on the wings, and bare metal fuel tanks:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/43354773155_3b7c984db5_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2947xAT)jk4216 (https://flic.kr/p/2947xAT)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1886/44260235411_a1dc0e7447_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ar8gZ6)jk4217 (https://flic.kr/p/2ar8gZ6)

[docjohnson]

Outstanding!

[huub vink]

You know I like them dirty :biggrin-new: :encouragement:

Cheers,
Huub

[MrZippy]

Hey, Jan, I'm still flyin' the "black" one. You know what they say about that, Right?:wavey:

[DC1973]

still playing with the paintkit:

bit more dirt on the wings, and bare metal fuel tanks:


Awesome work Jankees! :)

A small note: another texture artist contacted me to tell me I had neglected to map the control surface lowers to a separate texture. This was an oversight on my part, due to neither the Reporter or the P-61C carrying anything other than one-colour paints during their service lifetime. The P-61B was the airplane that bore many different schemes.

I am hoping to update the model in the future to give a broader scope to repaints, and will post a notice here when I get the work done. Hugely busy at the moment though so I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.

[jankees]

another suggestion could be to map all cowl flaps. Some P-61B's had different colors on different flaps.
Uploading a few more paints..
"Night Take-off", of the 548th NFS, based on Iwo Jima:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1851/42466397090_341d7deb00_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27GBomb)jk4360 (https://flic.kr/p/27GBomb)

"Cooper's Snooper", also of the 548th:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1842/44225805022_0d353b2764_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ao5P2G)jk4347 (https://flic.kr/p/2ao5P2G)
I've added bare metal tanks, and darker interior textures.

and "Little Audrey" of the 422nd NFS, based in France and Belgium in 1944.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1870/42466397280_ebfbdfa833_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27GBops)jk4349 (https://flic.kr/p/27GBops)

I know, they're all P-61B's.

[DC1973]

another suggestion could be to map all cowl flaps. Some P-61B's had different colors on different flaps.


They're mapped Jankees, inside and out - GearandDoors texture I think :)

[K5083]

I know that this is a dead thread, but I only recently downloaded the P-61C and encountered the "bouncing" problem discussed here a couple of years ago. As I don't see any reference to the fix that I found, I am posting my experience here for future visitors.

I installed the P-61C in P3Dv4.5. When parked, it would skitter and slide around the ramp. It was even worse when I had it parked using Where Are My Aircraft and viewed it from another aircraft. It would launch itself hundreds of feet into the sky and gyrate wildly. Quite annoying. It happened with no other airplane.

Having heard that this kind of thing can be caused by a contact point error, I opened the aircraft.cfg and checked it. One value in the contact points jumped out at me as being obviously wrong. The damping value (10th parameter) for the nose wheel is set to 12.980. The actual allowable range of this parameter is supposed to be from 0 to 1! Since damping relates to how much the airplane bounces when landing, I reasoned that such an outsize value might be bouncing the plane violently into the air, or at least causing it to jump around.

So I reset the value from 12.980 to 0.980, which is consistent with the values for the main landing gear. Specifically, go to the first "point" line under [contact_points], which in the stock aircraft.cfg is:

point.0 = 1, -7.261, 0.000, -7.400, 2000, 0, 2.75, 45.000, 0.148, 1.863, 12.980, 6.000, 2.500, 0, 175.0, 190.0

and change that 12.980 to 0.980.

So far this seems to have completely cured the problem and the P-61 sits nicely on the ramp like any other plane.

It's hard for me to believe this wasn't spotted during the work that was done to cure this issue a couple of years ago, but I don't see a reference to it in this thread, and the latest version of the P-61C available in the Library appears to still have the incorrect value in the contact point.

Anyway, I hope this helps other late-to-the-party downloaders enjoy this excellent airplane.

August

[FlyingsCool]

I know that this is a dead thread, but I only recently downloaded the P-61C and encountered the "bouncing" problem discussed here a couple of years ago. As I don't see any reference to the fix that I found, I am posting my experience here for future visitors.

I installed the P-61C in P3Dv4.5. When parked, it would skitter and slide around the ramp. It was even worse when I had it parked using Where Are My Aircraft and viewed it from another aircraft. It would launch itself hundreds of feet into the sky and gyrate wildly. Quite annoying. It happened with no other airplane.

Having heard that this kind of thing can be caused by a contact point error, I opened the aircraft.cfg and checked it. One value in the contact points jumped out at me as being obviously wrong. The damping value (10th parameter) for the nose wheel is set to 12.980. The actual allowable range of this parameter is supposed to be from 0 to 1! Since damping relates to how much the airplane bounces when landing, I reasoned that such an outsize value might be bouncing the plane violently into the air, or at least causing it to jump around.

So I reset the value from 12.980 to 0.980, which is consistent with the values for the main landing gear. Specifically, go to the first "point" line under [contact_points], which in the stock aircraft.cfg is:

point.0 = 1, -7.261, 0.000, -7.400, 2000, 0, 2.75, 45.000, 0.148, 1.863, 12.980, 6.000, 2.500, 0, 175.0, 190.0

and change that 12.980 to 0.980.

So far this seems to have completely cured the problem and the P-61 sits nicely on the ramp like any other plane.

It's hard for me to believe this wasn't spotted during the work that was done to cure this issue a couple of years ago, but I don't see a reference to it in this thread, and the latest version of the P-61C available in the Library appears to still have the incorrect value in the contact point.

Anyway, I hope this helps other late-to-the-party downloaders enjoy this excellent airplane.

August

Nice catch :)

[Dev One]

Interesting....all my versions of the aircraft.cfg show that value as 1.98.
Keith

[FlyingsCool]

Interesting....all my versions of the aircraft.cfg show that value as 1.98.
Keith

I just downloaded it from here, and it was set at 12.98