Carenado WIP: Beech D18

[mgchrist5]

It'll be hard to improve upon Milton's offerings, but it appears that Carenado has D18 in the works...

http://www.carenado.com/CarSite/Portal/comingsoon/55/98288868581901.jpg

[ak416]

I suppose it will be nice to have an updated model, but I can't say I've enjoyed flying any of Carenado/Alabeo's aircraft for quite some time.

[jankees]

..and really hard to repaint probably

[Milton Shupe]

Well, it's about time someone did a nice model of this aircraft. I for one am happy to see it. My old unit is 12 years old and I think this is an exciting development much needed in the FSX/P3D world.

Saluté :applause:

[mal998]

Hallelujah! Couldn't agree more with Milton. I've looking forward to an brand new D-18 for a long time. It's been great to have freeware to fly but I am really glad that this aircraft is being built from scratch for FSX and beyond. Can't wait to see the new VC.

[Daube]

I wish Simcoders would produce their reality expansion packs for Carenado airplanes in the FSX/P3D environment as well :banghead:
Without this, and combined with the "almost impossible to repaint" problems mentioned earlier, I'm afraid this D-18 is not going to be very interesting...

[stansdds]

It's Carenado, so it is guaranteed to be an absolutely stunning visual model. Beyond that... I'll likely pass.

[Bushpounder]

I wish they would have done a different model. Milton did one, which is still a classic, and there are others out there as well. Maybe if they did a G model with three-bladed props and the newer wing and slightly longer nose on it, which can be modded into a Volpar very easily, I would be getting excited. What's next, another 172? I also go along with the unpaintable comments as well. BUT ....... it WILL look pretty.

Don

[jmbiii]

Sticking with Milton. As much as how super their visual models are, both Carenado and Alabeo are the most aggravating to repaint. I like to personalize the aircraft I "fly".
Until they change their paint kit ways (don't hold your breath) this is another pass. Keep up your good work Milton.:applause:

[TuFun]

Looking at that model, that is one element that is still missing... self reflection. Notice the cowl reflection on the fuselage. I'v tried that once on the Howard.

[bob407]

Sticking with Milton. As much as how super their visual models are, both Carenado and Alabeo are the most aggravating to repaint. I like to personalize the aircraft I "fly".
Until they change their paint kit ways (don't hold your breath) this is another pass. Keep up your good work Milton.:applause:


Totally agree.

[wellis]

Totally agree.


likewise on this end!

[jankees]

it's not so much the paintkit ways, I find the white textures perfectly easy to paint, I may even prefer them over regular psd paintkits, much easier on my old system. Here's one to prove my point:
http://fs-snaps.com/images/2017/10/30/jk2570.jpg
No, it's the lay-out of the textures that is the problem. Bit and pieces all over the place, cut up fuselages, sometimes rotated relative to each other as well.. I tried really hard to make some decent paints for the Aerocommander, but it was just too complicated. Remember, I do this for fun, and there was no fun in that one. So as long as they make a model with a half decent texture lay-out, count on paints from me. If not, forget it.

[jeansy]

Looking at that model, that is one element that is still missing... self reflection. Notice the cowl reflection on the fuselage. I'v tried that once on the Howard.

Really?

Its a wip image thats not even in the sim

[jmbiii]

No, it's the lay-out of the textures that is the problem. Bit and pieces all over the place, cut up fuselages, sometimes rotated relative to each other as well.. I tried really hard to make some decent paints for the Aerocommander, but it was just too complicated. Remember, I do this for fun, and there was no fun in that one. So as long as they make a model with a half decent texture lay-out, count on paints from me. If not, forget it.

Yes, Jan, I agree wholeheartedly. Any paint with curved tapered lines for a Carenado aircraft will drive you to drink !:banghead::very_drunk:

[Tim-HH]

It definitely looks stunning :applause:

https://abload.de/img/33455487_171112542896zco6h.jpg

https://abload.de/img/33328850_1711125525639qrf4.jpg

https://abload.de/img/33397504_171112553896rcoi3.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/Carenado/

Greetings
Tim

[txnetcop]

Milton yours is going to be hard to beat...
Ted

[jamminjames]

Milton yours is going to be hard to beat...
Ted And it cost a whole lot less....

[Penzoil3]

And Milt's D18 probably flies better and has better systems !
Sue

[wombat666]

Sometimes..........:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[ryanbatc]

It definitely looks stunning :applause:



I've submitted this livery for them to paint. It was ferried to Germany a few years back. I was able to meet the pilots and check out the plane... stunning :)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1749/27610178567_fd56dbb3d9_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/J4Poav)IMG_2330 (https://flic.kr/p/J4Poav) by ryan b (https://www.flickr.com/photos/136697393@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1725/42480895071_da316fb943_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27HTG6n)IMG_2338 (https://flic.kr/p/27HTG6n) by ryan b (https://www.flickr.com/photos/136697393@N03/), on Flickr

[Roger]

Looking forward to the D18 and will be a must have purchase for me, as it is one of my favorite aircraft. I will keep Milton's and the FCS model asa they fulfill different functions.

[Josh Patterson]

I've submitted this livery for them to paint. It was ferried to Germany a few years back. I was able to meet the pilots and check out the plane... stunning :)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1749/27610178567_fd56dbb3d9_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/J4Poav)IMG_2330 (https://flic.kr/p/J4Poav) by ryan b (https://www.flickr.com/photos/136697393@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1725/42480895071_da316fb943_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27HTG6n)IMG_2338 (https://flic.kr/p/27HTG6n) by ryan b (https://www.flickr.com/photos/136697393@N03/), on Flickr I like trim around the cowling very similar to a Staggerwing. Would be interesting to see this same style in burgundy/cream or black/burgundy.

[Bomber_12th]

I'll be buying this Carenado model in a heartbeat/just as soon as it is released. A great, great choice of aircraft.

[Postbaer61]

A Matt Younkin version would also be great

https://i.imgur.com/P2B7wgk.jpg

[MustangL2W]

Twin Beech is just a remarkable airplane. That bare metal scheme Carenado is showing is a real "Looker!"

[wombat666]

I'll be buying this Carenado model in a heartbeat/just as soon as it is released. A great, great choice of aircraft.

That's two of us JT!:encouragement:

[William Njurmi]

With glass cockpit? :-(

[mgr]

With glass cockpit? :-(

Yes there is glass in the cockpit...

on the steamgauges...

https://scontent.fams1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33073621_1711125415630932_7959952667378188288_o.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=aa67be249a466a30965d4e168d8baa81&oe=5BB8C1F4

:pirate:

Marcel

[William Njurmi]

Then I'm in! :-)

[Vitus]

Hey guys,

sorry for hijacking this thread but I was just wondering: what makes repainting of carenado aircraft so difficult? I didn't do much repainting before - other than my own aircraft - so I really don't know...

[stansdds]

Hey guys,

sorry for hijacking this thread but I was just wondering: what makes repainting of carenado aircraft so difficult? I didn't do much repainting before - other than my own aircraft - so I really don't know...
It has to do with the way Alabeo/Carenado breaks apart the aircraft for texturing. They make really great use of a limited number of texture files, but it also makes repainting their aircraft a chore.

[Vitus]

ooh I understand. So when there is a box the six sides are split up and end up at seemingly random locations on the texture map?

[stansdds]

ooh I understand. So when there is a box the six sides are split up and end up at seemingly random locations on the texture map?

That's pretty much the case with their HD textures.

[Cirrus N210MS]

looking forward to a new D18

[jankees]

That's pretty much the case with their HD textures.
And they break up the sides, rotate them randomly, and then spread them randomly....
but I'll still buy this one instantly and will try my best to paint it..

[Tim-HH]

Carenado has posted some more pictures on their Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Carenado/) page:

https://abload.de/img/36264270_174917850515oksqd.jpg

https://abload.de/img/36650083_176095051731ltsud.jpg

https://abload.de/img/36241829_174917833849kiswl.jpg

https://abload.de/img/35882557_174917868182nashs.jpg

Greetings
Tim

[mal998]

This beauty is most definitely a keeper for me. A first rate VC is what I've been waiting for. Card at the ready. Hope it comes out soon. In fact, as luck would have it, a Beech D18 flew over my house yesterday.

[Daube]

Wow look at that view from the VC ! :dizzy:
Superb modelling, as expected from Carebeo. :applause:

[ryanbatc]

Ooooh! Perhaps they're doing the red livery I posted!

[Tim-HH]

Ooooh! Perhaps they're doing the red livery I posted!

Yes, they do! And it looks excellent :)

https://abload.de/img/36570934_1760950773980as2s.jpg

https://abload.de/img/36587410_176095060731ztsch.jpg

Greetings
Tim

[WarHorse47]

IT'S OUT NOW :redfire:

Just got mine, and took a short flight. Beautiful, just beautiful. :encouragement:

I think they might have a few left if your hurry. :playful:

[dvj]

IT'S OUT NOW :redfire:

Just got mine, and took a short flight. Beautiful, just beautiful. :encouragement:

I think they might have a few left if your hurry. :playful:


That RED, OMG! I got the last one!

-d

[Anthin]

It handles really well and has a great sound.
5 stars.
Very expensive though for anyone living in
Australia...Almost $50 Aud.

[tailspin45]

An absolutely beautiful aircraft, but (with apologies to Anthin) to me it sounds awful and flies nothing like a real Model 18.

Worse, it has lots and lots of silly problems. Carenado says they'll fix them "soon," but....

See https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/538815-poor-sounds-and-flight-model/

I've temporarily added Milton's wonderful sounds and fiddled with the AIR and CFG files so it is flyable, but unless your willing to do that I'd stay away until they release an update.

But, dang, it's beautiful!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61781&stc=1

[bbrz]

... flies nothing like a real Model 18.
Oh my. It's already bad enough that you are flooding another forum with your super-negativity and your apparently faulty installation and/or faulty joystick setup.

You might not believe it, but there are real pilots who are actually enjoying the Carenado D18 in its present form!

Btw, posting unauthorized FDE 'modifications' is an absolute no-go and comparing a FDE to a repaint shows how little you know about FDE design.

FYI, rest assured, the FDE will not be changed, or at least not significantly, in any future patch.

@Anthin, don't let tailspin45 spoil your fun with the D18. His 'bug' reports concerning the FDE are at least questionable.

[henrystreet]

Full disclaimer: I have NO experience in a Beech D18S and no real world reference for my comments.

Just for grins, I compared the aircraft.cfg files from Milton's FSX port available for download here at SOH and the aircraft config from the Carenado model. Some specific differences:

-the differences between the 2 cfg files regards empty weight, flight tuning, etc are really small in general. However.....
-Milton's is fully loaded with passenger weight and the Carenado has only a pilot (no copilot) in the station weights. this should make Milton's "heavier" in takeoff and increase the stall speed.
-the MOIs on the Carenado are significantly larger than Milton's. I suspect Milton has used a specific MOI calc model and Carenado has generalized numbers. this should make the Carenado more sluggish in roll and pitch.

i have not (and will not) look at the .air files.

be back in a minute with my popcorn.

[bbrz]

1.I suspect Milton has used a specific MOI calc model and Carenado has generalized numbers.

2.this should make the Carenado more sluggish in roll and pitch.

3.i have not (and will not) look at the .air files.
1. Wrong assumption and I don't know how you want to 'generalize' MOI values. Furthermore MOI numbers have very little to do with sluggishness etc.
2. It's exactly the opposite. The Carenado D18 has very high roll rate at high speed (70deg/sec)….that's the same value like the real D18..
3. Without looking at the airfile, the core, you can't even remotely judge a FDE.

[henrystreet]

state your expertise and experience. otherwise you are a poser.

PS are you afraid to post at Avsim?

[tailspin45]

The Carenado D18 has very high roll rate at high speed (70deg/sec)….that's the same value like the real D18..

You can check your assertion about roll rate by watching Matt Younkin's performance. With full throw on the yoke, doing about 200 mph, it takes a fraction over 8 seconds for him to complete a 360-degree roll. At your 70 deg/sec rate he would have been able to complete 560º, more than a roll and half. And keep in mind he's flying a very light aircraft with minimum fuel.

BTW, I love the way the aircraft looks and have flown it over 10 hours in the last three days. I'm simply reporting the problems I've discovered so others won't be befuddled by problems or think it somehow represents how the real aircraft flies.

I do think Carenado should be embarrassed for releasing an aircraft in such poor shape, however. If it was billed as pre-release I'd have no gripe, and would be happy to help as I have other developers.



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61794&stc=1

[henrystreet]

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

[heywooood]

all developers are different but I think today, as a rule, all add on aircraft releases are beta..to be tested in the wild over a far wider field of equipment and consumer knowledge - then adjusted by the developer according to PROPER feedback.

if you have bought the product, evaluated it, and responded to the developers own website, gotten no reply let alone repair after a reasonable time period..then I suppose grousing about it here would be understandable. But when I hear people say 'this should never have been released in this state' after less than a WEEK I just scratch my head. lol

I have not bought it yet and never buy anything like it in the first week - for just this reason. The airplane is beautiful. In 3-6 months it will be even better, and likely on sale somewhere.
To all of the customers making serious squawks to Carenado on their website or to their email I thank you. I'm sure you will be satisfied in due time.

[bbrz]

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!
And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.
Unfortunately this most of the time goes hand in hand.

Maybe you can read or use a stopwatch better than tailspin45. Just check how long it takes for Matt to roll the Beech the remaining 90deg of the aileron roll:
https://youtu.be/9Jk83zZXhBI?t=179

@tailspin45. Did you notice that he's even reducing the aileron travel at the last part...talk about embarrassing...

[heywooood]

tag team is puerile at best...this site has devolved somewhat -or maybe it's just the weather. Seems to me we see this garbage more during the summer months lol

[henrystreet]

And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.

You have 31 posts, none signed with any kind of real name. No demonstrated experience or expertise and you expect everyone else to bow to your little tarts of wisdom. I qualified my knowledge, how about you?

PS you still afraid of posting at Avsim?

[magoo]

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsu3hiP1ikQ

[henrystreet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsu3hiP1ikQ

Har! thanks for that one. I saw this movie as a first run at the drive in!

[Roger]

Just so everyone understands, this thread is being closely watched. If it devolves much more it will be closed.

[Ivan]

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

70 Degrees per second is actually very mediocre rolling performance for a fighter of that era but what do you expect out of something as big as the P-38 Lightning.
It also matters what the airspeed is for that roll rate.
If you really want to see a fantastic roll rate, check out this video at about 1:55-2:05.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8-hoY0DGYg

- Ivan.

[gman5250]

I'm going to purchase it tomorrow just to evaluate it for myself.

Sure glad they make SDKs for those folks who want to build to spec. :very_drunk:

[tailspin45]

I'm going to purchase it tomorrow just to evaluate it for myself. :very_drunk:

Welcome to the club!

Reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to the refrigerator, get out out a carton of milk and says, "Yuk, this stinks. Here, smell!" Maybe that's me?

That said, you'll be glad you did if they fix everything and make it the great aircraft it can be.

Breaker, breaker, good buddy.

Regarding the Mad, Mad, Mad World clip, I stood outside that hangar, before they tore it down, and pondered what it would have been like to fly through it in a Twin Beech.

And then I remembered Corky Fornoff did it in a little Bede Jet, too.

What I didn't know at the time was that a serious concern was how much air was displaced by the aircraft and how quickly.

The problem was you could blow the roof off the place, even with the doors open on both ends!

[gman5250]

Won't know until I fly the airplane, but I own every Carenado in the inventory and love them all.

I don't, as a rule, reverse engineer payware aircraft. I wait for the devs to do their updates, which are part and parcel of the development process.
I use the SDK to develop aircraft that have not yet been created for sim, or update older releases with the permission of the original developer.

My point about the SDK was to point to the fact that the tools are available for everyone to begin with a blank canvas and create to their own requirements. :encouragement:

[mongo55]

Hi all: I think this may be the first time I posted on this forum. Anyway, I compared the Carenado FDE with FDE's from other commercial and freeware Beech 18's and made some changes. The plane is now a lot more stable and enjoyable. I checked with Avsim and Carenado to seek if I could post my changes. Carenado responded by thanking me for my feedback. So I posted my changes on the Avsim Carenado forum. I'll post them here if it's OK with the administrators. Also, I'm a lawyer, not a pilot or flightsim expert. Thus, please feel free to post bad lawyer jokes, but don't beat me up to badly about my FDE changes. Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.

[falcon409]

I could be wrong Mongo (a bad habit of mine), but thanking you for your feedback doesn't sound like a clearance to post changes, rather just a "thanks a lot and we'll look into it" reply. If they had said "yes, by all means please post any changes you wish". . .then I'd say you had every reason to go forward and post what you changed. They may very well take your changes and use them as is or modify them to their liking, however the airplane hasn't been out very long and Carenado has some obvious fixes to comply with so. . . .thin ice here I would think. . .and as an Attorney I would think you'd have known that. But, as I said, I could be wrong.

[tailspin45]

On this whole FDE issue, where is it written that an AIR file, or any other component, can't be shared for non-commercial purposes?

I don't ask that as a challenge to anyone, by the way, but strictly for informational purposes. It would be helpful if we had some facts to go by on this issue.

With a lawyer in our midst, perhaps we can learn something about intellectual property and copyright issues that might be involved here.

If I buy a product—sim, software, music, or whatever—and send a copy of it to someone, it's clear to me that is unlawful, akin to stealing.

But if I buy a car and modify the code in the chip that controls the engine not only can I share it, apparently, but there are companies that sell such add-ons.

Is that any different than sharing (or even, gasp, selling) a modified FDE?

(I wonder if this should be a new thread?)

[dvj]

Carenado owns the rights to that FDE and when you bought the product, you agreed to the terms and conditions. It's like changing the lyrics of a song and republishing it. Rather than publish the modded FDE, maybe just say what you did so that other's can experiment privately?

The D18 is a pretty sweet model as it is.

[tailspin45]

Carenado's Terms and Conditions aren't relevant to this disussion, but the End User License Agreement is.

To answer my own question, it's very specific:


All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole, may be copied, re-distributed, disassembled, re-packaged or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose without the express permission of Carenado.

Emphasis mine.

[mal998]

Regarding flight dynamics there are a few videos out there that show off the D18's flight capabilites. Here is just one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0mk3c6TLmE

Now as far as rolls are concerned have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RYZTr9gzuQ

Also there are several pilot reports on flying the Beech D18. Very informative. http://www.pilotweb.aero/features/flight-test-beech-18-expeditor-1-4923761

[tailspin45]

Whoa! That second video is, um, incriminating, isn't it!

It demonstrates essentially the same roll rate as Younkin's very light aircraft, too, which is interesting.

Loved the article you found. Brits have a way with the English language, don't they.

Good video I just stumbled on at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qSzCnzXvY. Lots of interesting tidbits, but very choppy editing.

[Obie311]

re: the FDE characteristics

Milton's 18 flys like a dream in my humble estimation. How does the Carenado compare to that?

[blanston12]

Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.


All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole,
1) may be copied,
2) re-distributed,
3) disassembled,
4) re-packaged
5) or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose


without the express permission of Carenado.


You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.

Having said that, giving instructions how to do it would be considered free speech and you would be on firm legal grounds to do so, although this site could have its own rules on that, and I won't comment on those (since I don't know).

[wombat666]

Just to reiterate Roger's comment, this subject is being monitored 24/7 and the simple facts are 'No, you really can't mod the FDE'......:173go1:
Semantics and dancing around the issue does not make it legal, do it in the privacy of your own hanger but keep it there if you must.
End of discussion 'Ladies'.
Just wait and Carenado will patch it if needed.

[WarHorse47]

Carenado just released version 1.1 of the D18S which includes a lot of minor fixes. :encouragement:

[heywooood]

shocker - first patch already...

[tailspin45]

re: the FDE characteristics
Milton's 18 flys like a dream in my humble estimation. How does the Carenado compare to that?

Milton's is best there is, as far as I'm concerned. Sounds and flies right
.

[tailspin45]

Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.
You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.

Hmmm, good point.

[bbrz]

Milton's is best there is, as far as I'm concerned. Sounds and flies right
Just installed Miltons Beech and flying his version at 2000ft, 180kts, no pax no payload, 50% fuel, I need 4 sec for an aileron roll to the left and 5sec to the right. With the Carenado version the figures are 5sec and 6sec.
I honestly don't understand the outcry that the Carenado version 'flies nothing like the real thing' has unrealistic 'fighter like performance/handling' since Miltons Beech rolls even quicker.
Roll inertia is also very similar (which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.

[henrystreet]

(which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.

I qualified my experience and/or lack there of. You still have not.

Shame knowing Milton did not rub some of his gentlemen-like and polite demeanor on to some folks he knows.

[gman5250]

Just purchased and downloaded the Beech.
Watched the cockpit videos....with stopwatch.

Gonna go fly the new model.
(BTW...have tons of hours in Milton's version.)

Anyone want to guess the first thing I'm going to do????

I'll take requests for inflight video to post as memorial to the occasion. :biggrin-new:

BTW
BTW
We had a D-18 when I was a kid. Can't honestly remember how long it took to do a full aileron roll.

[henrystreet]

And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.


You know I completely get that some folks have more developed subtlety and social skills than others. And, that social skills are not correlated to technical skills. So, in the spirit of this forum, "it is better to be helpful than right", I will lay it out in spades.


On the one hand, we have a person (let's call them Pilot B), a professional pilot, hundreds of hours in the Beech D18S, flew it commercially, wrote an FAA manual for it, and is a positive contributor to the community. Pilot B bought the Carenado model, then, using his experience and expertise, compiled a well documented bug list (mostly in the cockpit) that was submitted without malice to the developer. Oh, and by the way, uses his real name so you confirm his qualifications and expertise.


On the other hand, we have a person (let's call them Commenter A), a forum lurker, who does not use their real name or have any documented expertiese concerning the Beech D18S (or flightsim even). According to Commenter A, his stated expertise is knowing Milton Shupe for many years.


So Pilot B applies his experience and expertise and within hours is attacked by Commenter A. No one is 100% right all of the time, even Pilot B. But Commenter A doesn't try to understand at all, instead applying whatever undisclosed (and maybe irrelevant) experience, they attack Pilot B. All the while hiding behind anonymity and forum PMs.


I ask you, who are we supposed to believe or even deal with? My parents were close friends of Charley Pride for much of the 1960's but that hardly qualifies me as a country music expert.


For Commenter A to attack the knowledge, experience and expertise of Pilot B who made an entire career out of commercial pilotage (much of it in the D18S) is the height of hubrus and foolishness. If you do not see this, you might want to consider empathy classes.


To question, to vigorously discuss, and to demonstrate expertise is all good. Hell, even encouraged. To repeat, Pilot B may be mistaken by virtue of a hundred reasons. But, Commenter A has only demonstrated expertise in trolling and refuses to participate in a human way to further everyone's knowledge.


Sorry, at this point, I'm aboard Pilot B's D18S, even if not perfect. Commenter A has no demonstrated or even explained expertise.

[bazzar]

It is interesting how flight dynamics have become "the new black". It used to be systems depth, then fidelity of detail and textures, now everybody is an FD officianado. What's next? The quality of the checklist?:engel016:

[stovall]

Good post Henrystreet! Please keep things from being personal. We have a great aircraft here. Enjoy it and make constructive comments. I have Milton's Beech D18 and love it. No doubt I will be getting the Carenado version as well from what I see here and the release post that I stickied.

Constructive comments please.

[heywooood]

I seem to be spending a lot more time lately being underwhelmed by the crap some people think they know...

seems to happen only whenever I'm paying any attention at all to the crap those people say.

the good news is that the feeling goes away completely when I stop, so - problem solved I guess

[MustangL2W]

The Carenado D18 is a wonderful example. I am thankful for their development and I am totally happy to have purchased it. Money well spent. I too Love the Shupe example and have no preference of one over the other. I appreciate them for all the effort involved in bringing them to us to enjoy. I have purchased a lot of payware over the years... some good, some not so good. I LOVE Flightsimming....and believe totally in supporting the community that keeps this hobby what it is. The developers out there keep raising the bar and we should all be grateful. If you want "perfect" flight dynamics for a Beech 18 experience..... go out and Fly a real one! Opinions and criticisms aired-out on an internet forum can, and possibly has, prevented a developer from doing something amazing in the future. It is heartbreaking when a developer throws in the towel. We all need to be reminded of that.

[magoo]

When did Milton & Co. first release their Beech 18 series....was it still with FS2002...?

[bbrz]

1.The Carenado D18 is a wonderful example. I am thankful for their development and I am totally happy to have purchased it. Money well spent.
2.If you want "perfect" flight dynamics for a Beech 18 experience..... go out and Fly a real one!
3.Opinions and criticisms aired-out on an internet forum can, and possibly has, prevented a developer from doing something amazing in the future. It is heartbreaking when a developer throws in the towel.
1. I'm happy that you didn't loose interest in the Carenado version despite tailspin45s claim that the Carenado version flies nothing like the real thing.

2. Exactly. The D18 roll rate is a good example. The yoke on the D18 rotates 90deg in each direction and an average joystick approx 25deg. This makes the simulated D18 almost 4 times more 'sensitive' than the real one.

There's simply no way to recreate 'only' the 'correct' handling with a joystick or a cheap yoke.
If you are using an expensive control loading yoke that rotates 90deg, the experience will be much closer to the real one, but still a far cry away from flying the real thing.

3. That's unfortunately true. I opted for another way since I love flying and flightsimming since many decades. I 'officially' stopped developing high quality FDEs a long time ago and I'm trying to refrain from posting as much as possible.
If you want to experience pure whining and developer bashing head over to the 'other' forum. Although it seems that since Jim Young has taken over, it's starting to become a much more friendly place.
SOH is the only forum I 'could' enjoy. But as you can easily tell in this thread, it was unfortunately a good idea not to reveal my identity.
I'd love to take part in FDE discussions but I've had such bad experiences with customers I finally gave up.
Again the D18 is a good example. Even with many decades of RL flying and FDE developing experience, I know that I wouldn't had a chance at the 'other' forum if a RL D18 pilot states that the Carenado D18 has a crap FDE, although it turns out that this apparently isn't the case.

[Bushpounder]

Henrystreet, you nailed it. Good post.

Don

[falcon409]

3. . . . . . . . .SOH is the only forum I 'could' enjoy. But as you can easily tell in this thread, it was unfortunately a good idea not to reveal my identity.
I'd love to take part in FDE discussions but I've had such bad experiences with customers I finally gave up.
I am looking in from the outside on this discussion simply because I know nothing about FDE's and won't be purchasing the Carenado Beech 18 (I've got Milton's which is plenty for me).

This community has quite a few FDE guru's, all well known, all widely accepted, all very competent, so I'm curious about why it is that you feel that revealing your true identity would be so detrimental to you? If you intend to portray yourself as an expert, then I suggest you drop the melodramatics and let everyone know what your true background is and who you actually are. . .otherwise nothing you say can be taken seriously.

[bbrz]

Fear not. I will not make the error to post here ever again.

[heywooood]

Clear and Direct - there is no other way to be, Falcon
and by the reply it was effective

[Milton Shupe]

Just a couple of comments from the "Shupester"

1) My original D18S was released in 2005 for FS2002 and FS2004. I did the FDE using Jerry Beckwith's FD Worksheet and tuned it to my liking.
Just FYI; I have never flown in any aircraft from the left or right seat.
My latest release of the FSX native D18S has the same FDE with minor tweaks as the original.
I was a novice then; I am an FDE novice now and rely on Airwrench to give me the basic performance and handling results. Then I tweak handling to suit my tastes.

2) I am saddened by how this thread has devolved and the obvious piling on of a member. That is unacceptable.

3) I have known, worked with, and respected "bbrz" since 2001-2 in developing my very first aircraft. He was instrumental in providing tons of data (Full RL POH), reference pictures, hours of videos, advice and counseling on the aircraft he piloted for so many years. He has many hours of pilot time in singles, twins, quads, and jet airliners. I also know that he authored the FDE's for many payware aircraft that people here love. He also did the FDE for one of my more recent releases. English is not his primary language.

With that said, I ask that you focus on being helpful and treat all members as you would like to be treated.

Thanks
Milton out ... :-)

[Willy]

.
With that said, I ask that you focus on being helpful and treat all members as you would like to be treated.

Thanks
Milton out ... :-)

Just to add to what Milton said, it was often said by one of the founders of SOH, "Let being helpful be more important than being right".

[heywooood]

I apoligize for my part in it. Yesterday was a rough day. I come to this forum to
get some relief. When discourse like this occurs again I’ll just walk away and remind myself
it can happen anywhere. Lately it seems to be happening everywhere..like a new ‘normal’