AICarriers frustration

[Navy Chief]

I have installed AICarriers several times, but for some reason, I cannot get things right this time. Where should AiCarriers be installed? And can someone please explain just where all the various different ship entries are supposed to be added to the AiCarrier's cfg?

I know about the AiCarriers.net version. Had it working at some point, I think, years ago. But can't remember how to do that, either. My 64 yr old brain ain't working like it used to. Go figure.:banghead:

Anyway, I have the java version on my desktop, but no idea what to do with it.:banghead:

NC

[gray eagle]

Go here to get the AI Carriers net version if you don't have it.

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11293.0

It will come with a few cfg files with ships on them.

If you have FSX/A which I think you do, then Install it at the root of ?:\Program Files (x86)\AICarriers

the ? is where you have your FSX installed, if C then use C:\


You should already have a folder where your various cfg menu entries are unless it all blew up on you.

[Navy Chief]

Ok, somehow I managed to get AICarriers.net to show up on the menu. Selected (in this case the Midway bought it). But no matter the aircraft, it does not trap. And I KNOW I am hitting at least one of the wires. Tried Dino's Viking, and it is the easiest of all to trap.

Is there something I am missing, settings wise? NC

[MrZippy]

Ok, somehow I managed to get AICarriers.net to show up on the menu. Selected (in this case the Midway bought it). But no matter the aircraft, it does not trap. And I KNOW I am hitting at least one of the wires. Tried Dino's Viking, and it is the easiest of all to trap.

Is there something I am missing, settings wise? NC

Possible cause of "missed" traps could be the length of the tail hook. Try adjusting it a foot or so longer in your aircraft.cfg. This is the one I ajusted
for the Alphasim A-3 Skywarrior.


[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 5.5
tailhook_position = -15, 0, -1
cable_force_adjust = 1

[speedy70]

There is a section in the manual on how to configure the tailhook with the wires.

Here http://wiki.simworksstudios.com/index.php?title=USS_Midway_Battlegroup#Arresting_g ear

Typical bloody chief,get someone else to do it!!!!!!! or ****.

Cheers Chris

[SiR_RiPPER]

NC, did you run the installer as administrator? If you did and it still didn't write CarrierExtensions.dll in the dll.xml file :banghead:, please follow the steps in the topic below or we can arrange a teamviewer session to get it sorted sometime tomorrow (e-mail me at support[at]simworksstudios.com).

SWS Forum: Writing into dll.xml (http://simworksstudios.com/forum/index.php?topic=756.0)

As for settings, the Midway/Coral Sea come preconfigured for several aircraft, including Dino's and the Alphasim A-3. If however one isn't configured, you can see the instructions here and set it up easily. The tutorial is much longer than the process: Aircraft Setup tutorials

Thanks,
Alex

[Navy Chief]

NC, did you run the installer as administrator? If you did and it still didn't write CarrierExtensions.dll in the dll.xml file :banghead:, please follow the steps in the topic below or we can arrange a teamviewer session to get it sorted sometime tomorrow (e-mail me at support[at]simworksstudios.com).

SWS Forum: Writing into dll.xml (http://simworksstudios.com/forum/index.php?topic=756.0)

As for settings, the Midway/Coral Sea come preconfigured for several aircraft, including Dino's and the Alphasim A-3. If however one isn't configured, you can see the instructions here and set it up easily. The tutorial is much longer than the process: Aircraft Setup tutorials

Thanks,
Alex

Thank you so much, Alex. I always run installers as administrator. Let me check some things though. I am considering a total uninstall/reinstall of FSX SE. Not because of this, per se, but other crap that has been going wrong. Will let you know. Thanks again! NC

[rcbarend]

Thank you so much, Alex. I always run installers as administrator. Let me check some things though. I am considering a total uninstall/reinstall of FSX SE. Not because of this, per se, but other crap that has been going wrong. Will let you know. Thanks again! NC
Well, if you do decide to re-install FSX, start with installing FSX and anything related to it, OUTSIDE the default Windows ProgramFiles folder (if you already have't done so).
Especially on WIndows-7/8/10.

That will save you a lot of problems to start with.

[PhantomTweak]

I think I posted a pretty comprehensive checklist for installing and making AICarriers.NET work right in another thread.
I can dig it up for you if you like, or you can search for it with my screen-name and AICarriers. It should pop out pretty quick. As I recall, it was fairly recent...
I am far from the greatest authority on AIC. That is Orion, on the FSDT forums, the guy that wrote the .NET version. He's one smart cookie. But I've been using it as long as SE's been out, and I've learned a few tricks...

Pat☺

[expat]

On normal FSX acceleration carriers, what is the recommended way to stop aircraft from rolling over and crashing after catching the wire? Been having a tough time with this behavior with the Viggie.

Most tweaks I see like above (btw, the A-3 IMHO is the toughest to trap without a building crash in this regard) are to the length of the hook. Would making the cable force weaker/lighter make the aircraft more settled and level after hooking the wire?

[Navy Chief]

Well, if you do decide to re-install FSX, start with installing FSX and anything related to it, OUTSIDE the default Windows ProgramFiles folder (if you already have't done so).
Especially on WIndows-7/8/10.

That will save you a lot of problems to start with.

Rcbarend,

Where do you suggest I install FSX SE to? As in in location? Thanks, Pete

[SiR_RiPPER]

On normal FSX acceleration carriers, what is the recommended way to stop aircraft from rolling over and crashing after catching the wire? Been having a tough time with this behavior with the Viggie.

Most tweaks I see like above (btw, the A-3 IMHO is the toughest to trap without a building crash in this regard) are to the length of the hook. Would making the cable force weaker/lighter make the aircraft more settled and level after hooking the wire?

Warning: paid product promotion to follow.

I've personally lost sleep over the issue and adjusting the hook length and cable force may yield some results, but will rarely work as it should. Nosegear digging and instability on arrest is a bug on how FSX (mis)calculates MOI and contact point tolerances. For example, it is almost impossible for me to trap straight in the default Acceleration Hornet because of tipping over.

The inability to hang from the wires is also part of FSX's bugs. Normally you're going MIL/AB when trapping just in case. If you do that in FSX you are going to end up in the drink because FSX will not let you hang and disengages prematurely.

That is the reason why we developed our own arresting gear tech with our carriers. It may need to be set up for planes that we didn't calibrate ourselves, but it works.


Rcbarend,

Where do you suggest I install FSX SE to? As in in location? Thanks, Pete

Intruding the conversation, I suggest that you create a Steam folder at any drive's root. All my Steam folders are A:\Steam, C:\Steam, G:\Steam etc. This way I don't have to mess around with protected folders like Program Files or other problems that come from installing FSX in deep directories.

And to correct my blunder above:
Step 1: Enabling the carrier control panels and creating presets for any plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5YNWJfZobk&list=PL67f2o2ke7QAbQ6quNl3Q5EV 3aXP1tXNZ

[SiR_RiPPER]

And step 2: Fine-tuning an aircraft's hook and approach AoA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqd-Tqw95ew&index=2&list=PL67f2o2ke7QAbQ6quNl3Q5EV3aXP 1tXNZ

We will continue expanding the list of out-of-the-box supported planes, but feel free to get in touch and send us any ones you have made for inclusion.

[Navy Chief]

Thanks much, Alex!

I will definitely take your suggestions, sir! Pete

[Navy Chief]

Warning: paid product promotion to follow.

I've personally lost sleep over the issue and adjusting the hook length and cable force may yield some results, but will rarely work as it should. Nosegear digging and instability on arrest is a bug on how FSX (mis)calculates MOI and contact point tolerances. For example, it is almost impossible for me to trap straight in the default Acceleration Hornet because of tipping over.

The inability to hang from the wires is also part of FSX's bugs. Normally you're going MIL/AB when trapping just in case. If you do that in FSX you are going to end up in the drink because FSX will not let you hang and disengages prematurely.

That is the reason why we developed our own arresting gear tech with our carriers. It may need to be set up for planes that we didn't calibrate ourselves, but it works.



Intruding the conversation, I suggest that you create a Steam folder at any drive's root. All my Steam folders are A:\Steam, C:\Steam, G:\Steam etc. This way I don't have to mess around with protected folders like Program Files or other problems that come from installing FSX in deep directories.

And to correct my blunder above:
Step 1: Enabling the carrier control panels and creating presets for any plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5YNWJfZobk&list=PL67f2o2ke7QAbQ6quNl3Q5EV 3aXP1tXNZ

UPDATE:

Well, I completed the uninstallation successfully, but was unable to reinstall FSX SE in the location I wanted to. I had created a Steam folder on the SSD drive (my game drive), but Steam would not allow me to install there. Grrrr. So I went ahead and reinstalled in the B: Program Files, where it had been previously...sigh.:banghead:

[Daube]

If I'm not mistaken, Steam will always force a certain folder hierarchy, like SteamLibrary\...\...\FSX...
But that "SteamLibrary" folder can be created on any available drive.
So you're not totally free to choose the install path, but at least you can get it out of the OS drive, which is good enough :)

[Navy Chief]

Ok, all uninstalled. Did fresh reinstall to B:/Program Files (X86) etc.... VRS Tacpac and Superbug, plus Simworks Phantom installed. All ok so far. Gotta do errands. Back later to start reinstalling stuff again....:):encouragement: NC

[PhantomTweak]

On normal FSX acceleration carriers, what is the recommended way to stop aircraft from rolling over and crashing after catching the wire? Been having a tough time with this behavior with the Viggie.

Most tweaks I see like above (btw, the A-3 IMHO is the toughest to trap without a building crash in this regard) are to the length of the hook. Would making the cable force weaker/lighter make the aircraft more settled and level after hooking the wire?
Prepare for some long-winded babbling!

There's a trick I found on the FSDeveloper forums for adjusting the tailhook to stop the tipping over problem. Once you have the length right, move it farther aft. Like this: tailhook_position = -79.0, 0, 1.5//-49.0, 0, 2.5//-49.453, 0, 1.556 Note the increase in the longitudinal position, as we tested. Well, I did, anyway. I found that -79.0 made the plane stop straight ahead if you were within 3° of the centerline on touchdown. Farther out than that, up to about 10° off centerline, you might dip a wing, but probably not "crash". Maybe get some damage to the wingtip or nose, or both, however. Farther out than that, you still tip over onto the nose and one wing or 'tother.
The number required for longitude position is different for every plane. That one is what we came up with for the FSDT F/A-18C. It seems to work just about perfectly. The farther aft you move it, the less "tip-over" effect there is, so you don't want to over-do it, but you can't under-do it either. Takes a lot of experimentation.

Naturally, the contact point values #'s 9, 10, and 11 must be correct for the plane as well, to make for a "proper" recovery on the boat. Best to get those right for landing first, on a shore station, then do the tailhook work.

A value setting to help keep you from going on off the end of the deck in full MIL power after grabbing a wire is cable_force_adjust = 1.74. That value for the FSDT plane brings it to stop with the nose-wheel just a foot or two before the end of the angle, if the #4 wire is caught and the throttles are in MIL. Enough for turning the nose-gear to make the plane taxi safely away from where it stops. Again, it will be unique for every plane. Heavier planes need higher values, naturally. You do need to be quick on the brakes and to bring the throttles to idle after the trap, before the plane "spits out" the wire. Just takes some practice, is all.

All this fun stuff works together, naturally, to make for an accurate recovery aboard the boat. Really, if the wires are in the right place on the boat, then it's all up to the plane settings to make it right. Not exactly "real world", since the cable force is adjusted for each plane as it comes in on board the boat, but the closest FSX Acceleration can come.

Ok, I'm done. Sorry for the long-winded-ness :D
Pat☺

[Navy Chief]

If I'm not mistaken, Steam will always force a certain folder hierarchy, like SteamLibrary\...\...\FSX...
But that "SteamLibrary" folder can be created on any available drive.
So you're not totally free to choose the install path, but at least you can get it out of the OS drive, which is good enough :)

Nowhere, that I can see, was a "SteamLibrary" created. Is that a option I can create after the fact? And if so, how? Thanks. NC

[Navy Chief]

Just when things were going great, I selected the SWS Phantom, and none of my flight controls work, except the throttle. Arghhh.....:banghead: NC

[expat]

Ok, I'm done. Sorry for the long-winded-ness :D
Pat☺

Pat, on the contrary, exactly what I was interested in, many thanks. Will experiment with moving the hook position aft. -79 feet seems not too realistic, but if it does the job, great!

A few comments. I did not realize that being x degrees off the center line was relevant. My traps are therefore likely part of the problem as I often line up off the angle and more toward the bow (probably as the eye is drawn to the longer deck runoff area on an empty CV than using the angle deck space). Have to stop that. Re-training classes now required!

Also, did not think you could use full MIL power on trapping with the Acceleration wires i.e., as you would bolter, but perhaps your cable_force_adjust 1.74 solves this. Been wary to make this stronger than 1.0 on the assumption it makes the wire like a stronger elastic band and will just "whip back" and unsettle or tip over the plane, but perhaps not. Will try that too.

Lastly, others have commented never to touch the brakes trapping as that will crash or unsettle the aircraft. Perhaps not.

Thanks again for your comments.

[expat]

Just when things were going great, I selected the SWS Phantom, and none of my flight controls work, except the throttle. Arghhh.....:banghead: NC

Tempted to get the SWS Phantom and Coral Sea this weekend. Won't accuse if of being "buggy" but it does seem a bit fiddly - I just have so little time to tweak/configure FS and need to use what time I do have for a few quick launches and traps.

[Dimus]

Having had the fortune and pleasure of testing these (SWS) carriers, I have to say that the FSX peculiarities with trapping are all gone. The experience of approaching and trapping is much more realistic, and yes, you can select full mil upon trapping and still remain trapped. The icing on the cake is the animation of the wires.

[expat]

Think you have sold me Dimus!

[PhantomTweak]

Lastly, others have commented never to touch the brakes trapping as that will crash or unsettle the aircraft. Perhaps not.
The trick is to gt on the brakes after you stop. Let the wire pay out as far as it's going to, and then, before the plane spit's out the wire, grab the brakes and cut the throttles to idle. But not until you're completely stopped. There's a short moment of time, between when the wire's holding you stopped, and the engines start moving the plane. That's when you get on the brakes. It takes some practice to get the timing right :D
But then, what part of recovering on a boat doesn't?


My traps are therefore likely part of the problem as I often line up off the angle and more toward the bow (probably as the eye is drawn to the longer deck runoff area on an empty CV than using the angle deck space). Have to stop that. Re-training classes now required!
Making a couple of presumptions here. The boat is in motion forward, and the WOD is correct for the plane and it's gross weight. In the case of the FSDT Hornet, with the boat moving forward, you need about 10Kts wind to make up the proper WOD value. You can set this in the Custom Weather, Advanced tab. And make sure it's down the Angle, not the boat's centerline. All that being the case, when you roll out in the groove, you should be aimed toword the boat's "crotch". Actual Naval terminology :D
That's your line up, not the bow, not the angle, but the crotch, where the angle meets the boat's centerline, on the port side of the forward portion of the boat, starboard of the front of the angle. Correct your line-up when in close with the rudders. Of course, when you roll out in the groove, you've got the correct sink rate established, and the proper AOA. That keeps you lined up properly for the angle, since the boat moving ahead, with the wind, moves the tailhook's touchdown point (between the #2 and the #3 wire) at an angle to your motion, if you see what I mean.
Again, assuming an overhead recovery. For a nice, easy, gentle, straight-in approach, you need to still line up on the crotch, but you've got a lot more time to get the AOA and sink rate set.
For both, your course is the angle, not the BRC. The BRC is for upwind, then after that, it's all relative to the angle, not the boat's course.

If you want to use real-world weather, you have to adjust the boat's speed in it's sim.cfg to make the proper WOD, and set the boat's course to make the wind down the angle. A bit more complex, but not impossible.

This is, naturally, for FSX Accel, not the real world (where IS that place, anyway??), but comes fairly close.


-79 feet seems not too realistic, but if it does the job, great!
It's not about the hook's position visually, which is set in the .mdl file. It's about where the sim places the hook and then the forces it applies to everything with the hook there.

No matter what, have fun with it! Can you tell I do? Although those AI LSO's hate me, I swear. I won't comment on the grades they give my recoveries, even under the most perfect conditions...
Pat☺

[Navy Chief]

Just wanted to post that Alex, with SWS, helped me fix all my problems with AI Carriers, AND their Phantom as well (control surfaces). Thanks Alex! NC:encouragement: