Model Converter X question

[Sundog]

Hi everyone,

Can MCX be used to re-scale a model? I have a plane I really like, but it's out of scale with the sim (it's too big). I would fly it more if it was to scale. So I would like to know if it can be re-scaled using this tool and, if so, would I have to re-scale all of the textures as well?

Thanks,

Ken

[Mach3DS]

No it can't. As far as I know.

[Sundog]

Dang, thanks. It was worth asking though.

[Mach3DS]

out of curiosity what model are you talking about?

[roger-wilco-66]

MCX can rescale a model. It's a function hidden behind the "Transform object" button, where you also can move or rotate an object.

The textures are unaffected by that, since the UWV mapping is relative. In other words, don't worry about the texture maps.

Cheers,
Mark

[Mach3DS]

That's why I said as far as I know! Some of you are far smarter than I! Thanks Mark! That's great to know!

[roger-wilco-66]

No worries Rick, this is about helping and expanding knowledge, and not about being 100% right all the time :-)

When I stand corrected myself I'm actually glad, because I learned something or got rid of a misconception.
I'm also glad that SOH is a very casual and productive place in regard of that.

[edit: regarding being smarter, I wish I had your texturing capabilities. So much for that :-) ]

Cheers,
Mark

[jeansy]

or there is this option,

http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/topic/25269-editing-the-viewing-distance-of-aircraft/

[Roger]

I have used RADItor.exe to resize a model, which I believe is one of Arno's tools.

Ah I see that is Matt's option in the post above.

[falcon409]

Maybe the OP can add some additional info here, but my assumption was that he was saying the aircraft itself. . .in the Sim, was too big (to me, "In the Sim" refers to once he has loaded the aircraft in the Sim). The last few suggestions (using RADItor) would not fix that, they would only adjust the size as viewed in the aircraft selection menu. Maybe I misunderstood his idea of "In the Sim".

Addendum: Yea, don't think I misunderstood. . .he says he would fly it more if was to scale. Don't think I've ever come across an airplane that was scaled incorrectly for the sim.

[Roger]

Maybe the OP can add some additional info here, but my assumption was that he was saying the aircraft itself. . .in the Sim, was too big (to me, "In the Sim" refers to once he has loaded the aircraft in the Sim). The last few suggestions (using RADItor) would not fix that, they would only adjust the size as viewed in the aircraft selection menu. Maybe I misunderstood his idea of "In the Sim".

Addendum: Yea, don't think I misunderstood. . .he says he would fly it more if was to scale. Don't think I've ever come across an airplane that was scaled incorrectly for the sim.

Ed, RADitor is good for seeing the aircraft correctly in sim if it seems a long way off or much to close, not only in the selection menu! I used it for the Piaseki flying Banana which always seemed a long way off when it loaded.

[falcon409]

I guess I'll leave this one alone until Sundog comes back to answer the suggestions from the thread. It's my feeling that the distance (close or far away) isn't the issue. When he says he would fly it more if it were to scale. . .tells me that the aircraft itself, compared to other aircraft of the same general size, is too large. . .physically too large compared to the dimensions of the real world aircraft. Nothing to do with distance when it loads. . .everything to do with the actual scale of the airplane based on real world dimensions.

[Dangerous Beans]

I have come across a couple of planes, mainly Alphasim ones that although they look OK normally when in VR with the Oculus Rift the VC is huge and its like being a small child sitting in the cockpit :)

I tried rescaling some of them in MCX but the animations get screwed up and I dont know how to fix them.

[roger-wilco-66]

I think Ed is right. The correct answer depends on what the OP is up to.


Cheers,
Mark

[Bjoern]

I have used RADItor.exe to resize a model, which I believe is one of Arno's tools.

The last few suggestions (using RADItor) would not fix that, they would only adjust the size as viewed in the aircraft selection menu.

Ed, RADitor is good for seeing the aircraft correctly in sim if it seems a long way off or much to close, not only in the selection menu!

RADItor edits the crash box and radius of an aircraft. As all of you stated, the radius determines the initial camera distance for user aircraft, but it also determines the parking spot size for AI aircraft, which makes using RADItor an essential step in every FS9 -> FSX aircraft conversion. The crash box is self-explanatory.

[Stefano Zibell]

One of these days I'll have to try my hand at converting project open sky Embraer ERJs.

[Sundog]

It's the Razbam Convair Model 201. I've attached two pics showing it and then the FSXBA F/A-18C next to static F/A-18s for reference. The F/A-18C has a length of 56 ft 1in, a wingspan of 40 ft 4 in, and a height of 15 ft 5 in. The C201 has a length of 52 ft 6 in (Shorter than an F/A-18C) a wingspan of 27 ft 10.2 in (Smaller than an F/A-18) and a height of 18 ft. (Slightly taller than an F/A-18). As you can see from the images below, the C201 is much larger and I really notice it around ground objects (Hangers, fuel trucks, etc.)

So, if I could fix that, I would fly it much more, as I've always liked the design, and inmany ways, it would have been the JSF of the 70's, since there was also a VTOL version, and this is also the design that General Dynamics (Formerly Convair) used as the metric for maneuverability when designing the F-16. In fact, the main reason it wasn't built is the Navy chose the XFV-12A over the C200 (STOVL version of the C201). The XFV-12A used existing airplane parts and looked good on paper, but they greatly miscalculated duct losses and ended up a massive failure.

Anyway, that's why I asked about being able to re-scale a model. It looks too big to me. Maybe it's just an optical illusion?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53675&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53676&stc=1

[roger-wilco-66]

Did you check or compare the model dimensions in MCX?

You could get the dimensions of the aircraft by checking the bounding box dimensions (Button "object information"). However, if you do so be sure to activate the visibility of the bounding box so you see what is actually being measured. Jet models often incorporate the jet exhaust in the model, so the reading for the length will be larger than the airframe itself.

I'd also check the dimensions of the static F-18.

However, I would find it hard to believe that Razbam didn't get the dimensions of this aircraft right.

This reminds me of something. Years ago I noticed that scenery objects (vehicles) I created looked too small in comparison to the aircraft I flew, even though I designed them in their original size. This also happened with static aircraft. After some tests I found that the sim generally downscales scenery objects by a factor of 1.12. When I upscaled my scenery objects in MCX by that factor everything was fine! Maybe you're experiencing the same issue.


Cheers,
Mark

[Mach3DS]

I think the scale is correct Sundog. Looking at your images side by side in the small thumbnails they look as they should. I'm also noticing that your images the aircraft aren't placed in the same locations, so the perspective is slightly off. Try parking in a parking spot with yellow "T" markings. Then take a screen capture. Then switch aircraft in sim, so the new one loads directly into the same position as the previous then take a screen capture. I have the 201 as well and never noticed this. I like the airplane a lot as well. I bet the static models are incorrect. I'm with Mark, I can't believe that Razbam would have got the scale wrong...but stranger things have happened! :)

[jeansy]

another thing static objects in the generic addon library arent all to the correct scale, ive had some aircraft oversized and some under sized while ive had a truck bigger than a plane

it may be the case the krestel is the right size and the hornets are the wrong size

the low poly library objects are not the best thing to use as a reference


edit, i see you have checked with another hornet, well its hard to say

[Sundog]

Yeah, I think it's what Gordon said, I think the plane is correct it's the scenery is too small. I should ask Orbx to come out with a new scenery objects add on that makes them the proper scale. ;)

Also, thanks for the tip on how to use the bounding box to check dimensions, that will come in handy.

[roger-wilco-66]

I found an old screenshot I made when I dabbled with the phenomenon. I made a 10x10 meter box with a fine scale pattern and hooked it to the active aircraft scale. Then I made another one and left it as it was. By comparison I saw that it was different and I also checked my vehicles against it, and lo and behold, they were too small.

It totally escapes me why the sim does that.


Cheers,
Mark



https://www.dropbox.com/s/vziov9i5m7k9tr7/scale-grid-test-rescaled110.png?dl=1

[Dimus]

Mark, your post made me wonder, so I went to check the static SM1019 I just converted for Locher. I put it next to the actual flying plane (sim object) and they were identical, no scaling.

[roger-wilco-66]

Hmmm. Seems we're not at the bottom of this. Is the SM1019 a flying model converted to be static?

[Dimus]

Hmmm. Seems we're not at the bottom of this. Is the SM1019 a flying model converted to be static?

Yes, Mark, exactly.

[Bjoern]

Are you guys taking LOD models and camera properties into account?
Vertex clustering may shrink a model a bit when a lower LOD model is used and at least the cockpit cameras in FSX produce a bit of a fisheye effect at lower zoom levels (and with WideViewAspect set).

[Dimus]

In my case no LOD was involved, model was a pure LOD1 converted to static and I virtually put one on top of the other by slewing to compare their sizes.

[roger-wilco-66]

Good point, Bjoern. But mine neither. I never LOD the models.

Cheers,
Mark

[Bjoern]

Good point, Bjoern. But mine neither. I never LOD the models.

LODs are fairly easy to create in MCX, but as usual, you need to find a balance between performance (lower detail LODs available = better rendering performance) and and memory usage (more LOD models = larger model files). Same as for textures (mips or no mips). And regardless of which approach you take, quantity will kills regardless.