Alps Run Practice

[Willy]

Some of us got started on Milton's Alps Run just checking out the lay of the land so to speak. And we had a blast! One little airfield in Austria in particular was something else to make a landing in. I think I had the nose wheel on the tarmac and both mains off the edges of the runway, it was so narrow. And short too. I just knew I wouldn't be able to stop that P-38 in time to stay out of the trees at the end.

As this was the first run thru, we flew it in daylight with the "winter wonderland" weather scheme going. Next time, I'm going for night and bad wx :icon_twi: .

We called a halt in LIPB for the night and will pick up there tomorrow night.

[PRB]

We had fun tonight flying through the start of the route. Lots of P-38s. Hmm. :)

- Paul

[dcc]

nice! too bad I missed it

- dcc

[Windrunner]

If I knew you were coming here. I would had prepared an special dinner!:ernae:



BTW: we are expecting severe snow storms in the next days, so be carefull with real wx...

[Willy]

Well, we'll be picking back up at LIPB tonite. And hopefully with Real Wx back up. The winter wonderland theme was okay, but I still prefer the Real Wx....

Edit: Windrunner, the original plan was to just land and take off again, but it was getting late so we saved the flight there

[mississippi]

I just made it in to LIPB at 5:48 PM Willy and all the othere's are sleeping try and be up tonite to fly some :D . :costumes: :d PS i het a tree whin i landed was not abell to stop .

[Milton Shupe]

Windrunner should have the "home field" advantage there Willy. Maybe he can provide pointers for the route. ;-)

[Willy]

We stopped in Bern, Switzerland for the night and plan to finish up tomorrow night.

Tonite's pics...

1) a pair of P-38 legends! Yippee with White Lightning in behind

2) I spent a bit of time inverted just flying along checking out the scenery.

3) And here's some of the scenery


Talking with Milton and others, we figured it'd be best to run the actual race with FS set to daylight to enjoy the scenery and prevent pilots from finding "granite clouds". Tonite's pics were with default Real Wx, but there's no guarantee for race day. Which btw, we still need to decide that. I'm thinking that it'll take us about 6 hours or so to run the full course.

Near as I know and I'm sure Milton will correct me if I've left a waypoint out, the course is...

Start at LOXZ then...
LOWK
LOWZ
LOWI
LIPB
LIDT
LSZS
LSZA
LSPM
LSZB
LSGS
LSGG
LFNC
and finish at LFMN.

We're making full stops at each airport and not taking off until all aircraft have made it there (landed or crashed)

Any suggestions on whether to fly as teams, singly or ?

I'm figuring the use of RTW Challenge qualified aircraft, and the leg verification as per that race.

[kevib1]

As the course is around 6 hours that could cause a few problems with teams.

The whole race could be over whilst half the world is asleep.

How about trying for 3 teams of similar time zones,
Americas,
Euro-Africa,
Asia-Australia.
Any other forums could enterr similar multiple teams

If each team starts with a local time at LOXZ of 10/11 am but at an appropriate time for their real timezone (say 10/11) CST,GMT/CET,EST.
Everyone should atleast be out of the Granite clouds before dark that way.

The race would be against the clock with the winning team being quickest to finish the course. All teams should fly over the same weekend.

Do we have 3+ pilots in each time region to for a team.

I'm one for a Euro-African team.

If we make it a given plane completing the course it can be flown relay style or by the same pilot throughout allowing one pilot to complete the entire course if desired and the wife allows.

As the teams would be flying at different times the rx weather may change. If this is seen as giving a possible advantage perhaps we should set a weather theme, perhaps suppling a flight t obe used throughout or for different legs of the flight.
I'd say go for rx weather as it will be pure chance as to which, if any, teams get an advantage.

The other rules as per Willy's post I think will be agreable to everyone.

Hopefully my ramblings make sense to anyone other than me!

Kev

[mississippi]

That sonnds good kevib 1 im in cst zone i thank this may be a fun race :applause: :running: :d

[Gnoopey]

did the whole run twice so far ...

take #1 - 19.12.05 - P-47D-25-RA '2N-L'
take #2 - 20.12.05 - P-47M-1-RE 'Raid Hot Mama'
the P-47D-25 is significantly slower and has NO dive recovery flaps - with that one, I'd used conventional WEP to help with steep climb outs but have used full MIL usually in climb - as soon as at cruise altitude, I'd switched to around 42-44" of mercury and 2,100 RPM - whole run took 3 hours 55:34 minutes of baton time measured with the RTW Duenna.

With the P-47M, I used reduced WEP of 2,700 RPM and 60-64 inches of mercury during climb and reduced to full MIL with 2,550 RPM and 54" MP for cruising. Went up a little higher on average than with the D-25 and came in usually pretty hot, used dive recovery flaps to slow down for the landing - whole run took 2 hours 57:35 minutes of baton time measured with the RTW Duenna.

See pics for full statistics - including proposed minimum altitudes when going straight forward.

Could do both runs with real WX provided through FS-METEO and in daylight - having my x-mas holidays already :)

Wx was pretty nice for both days - cold and moderate winds - very few clouds.

[kevib1]

Damn those mountains look good Gnoopey.

Interesting results too.
I think we need to find a couple of shorter runways along the route if you can get your Jugs in and out of everywhere.

Looks like you are enjoying your holidays.

Kev

[Willy]

Gnoop's got that high end mesh for Switzerland and it does look quite excellant. I'm cheap and fly in Golden Wings ;).

I'd like to fly the race on a Saturday. But if we do, we've got Christmas Eve coming up this weekend and I don't feel good about it then. I'd like to suggest the 31st or New Year's Eve.

As for teams, that works for me although we'll have to figure out some way of verifying the legs for the whole team. Also, should a team member crash, should he refly the leg with the resulting extra time being added to the team's total?

[Ferry_vO]

Sure is an iteresting flight ! I made it LIDT tonight in daylight but in real weather.
Had zero visibility in LOWI; The weather was a lot better near LIPB.

If we have to fly this at night, I'm taking a STOL aircraft like the Beaver or Wilga ! Might be slow, but it also doesn't need a lot of runway, so less chance of a crash ! :costumes:

BTW Count me in as part of the Euro team, kevib1 ! (If I have enough time to fly that is.)

[Milton Shupe]

Looks like this is a lot of fun so far and I hope others will feel the same. Let me try this scenario on you and see if we can work toward a final race approach that suits everyone.

1. Race to be held on Saturday, Dec 31st and Sunday Jan 1st local regional team times.
2. Teams may choose to race anytime that weekend as long as the race is completed and results are forum posted by end of their local Jan 1st day.
3. Regional teams may be formed with any number of members per team (minimum=3) decided by each team. Regions may have multiple teams.
4. Teams will be named and numbered by Site/Region/number. Ex: SOH-Euro-1
5. RTW rules apply for realism, aircraft, use of Duenna and posts.
6. Final race route will be posted Dec 30th at 1000 zulu.
7. What else do we need?

[dcc]

7. What else do we need?

prizes? :jump:

looks like fun, hope to join in

- dcc

[Milton Shupe]

In RTW the prize is "bragging rights". :-)

But, I'll happily make the new Spartan available FREE to all winners (and participants) :-). lol

[kevib1]

I'm not so sure I can make New Year's eve/ day. I think the wife will ground me forever!!!

The following wekend I can do and still keep all my bodily parts.

Kev

[Milton Shupe]

We are looking for discourse, communications about the concept and approach. A weekend long timeframe to accommodate all time zones and teams members to get the most out of the race. Not looking for anything but what can make this work. Tell us what can work, what should be changed or added. Work out personal details with your team members once a date is set.

New Year's Eve/day was about the weekend concept. It can be any weekend. The race will be 3-4 hours long max, not the whole weekend for any team.

[Moses03]

Has there been any input or feedback from the Com-Central guys? I would feel better if I knew where they stood on the concept.

Jan 1st works best for me but I'm fairly flexible. How about it team SOH-USA-1?


Moses

[Willy]

For that matter, any weekend is fine. The more practice at running it the better :icon_twi: .

A couple of things on the aircraft flown. My feeling is that what you take off at the start line is the one you should fly the whole course in.

[Milton Shupe]

No, I first wanted to see if you guys liked this route and style of racing.

Then the issue becomes how to manage it which brought forth the questions above regarding teams, weekend race, etc. I really didn't want to ask them until I knew what you guys here think.

I'll ask Willy to post the route there immediately and a link to this thread to stir interest.

I have the flu right now, and other unmentionable maladies that is keeping me in bed or in the bathroom. :-/

[Willy]

I'll ask Willy to post the route there immediately and a link to this thread to stir interest.

Uh... anyone got the link to ComCentral? Would ya believe me last HD re-format ate it? :redf:

[Milton Shupe]

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=13

[Willy]

Duly notified!

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=14245#14245

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I'd be in for those days as it appears right now that we won't be traveling. (Could change though). I'm on Vancouver Island so PST for me anybody else?

-Ed-

[PRB]

No, I first wanted to see if you guys liked this route and style of racing.


Good route. Rather challenging, but that's a plus. I flew a couple of legs last night using real weather - it was 1 - 2 miles visibility! It will be a busy 3 - 4 hours of fun.

- Paul

[Gnoopey]

finally found some time to go after the NDM flight modeling that I'd began a while ago - just gimme a few hours more and it will be ready for alpha / beta tests - it's thought to be used together with the recently re-released Simtech Do 335 A-1 :)

- using specs from various sources, these are the main params so far:

+ Weight: 17376 lbs Max 24330 lbs
+ Power: 1750 hp MIL 1900 hp WEP
+ 8.5g Corner speed: 296 mph
+ Max speed @ SL: 409 mph
+ Max speed: 477 mph @ 32800 ft
+ Climb rate: 3850 ft/min @ 157 mph
Flight Dynamics By: Tom Kohler
Mudpond Virtual Aircraft @ Gnoopey's - © 2005
FD Build 1 - 22.12.2005 11:24 CET
Flight Dynamics Workbook V2.84.50g

I'm currently lacking proper info about the fuel system - if by any chance somebody (Willy) should have some more info on this topic, I'd be very glad to read it ;)

[Willy]

He he Gnoopey, I'm glad you got me to relooking into my sources. I've lost a ton of them in my recent HD troubles, but I found a few more that I'd missed previously.... :d


I'm including this one as I believe it to be as close to correct as we'll get to the in-service question. Web searches are all over the board on that.. :banghead: Also as AvSim is on the rules committee and they are putting this info out... :d
http://www.avsim.com/pages/1102/cfs_part2/cfs3_part2.html
From MS via AvSim:


Dornier Do335 "Ameisenbaer" ("Anteater")

An aircraft of most unusal design, the tandem push-pull engines layout first patented by its designer, Dr Claude Dornier, in 1937, but not utilized by the German government until the end of 1942, in this aircraft. In just nine months, the prototype was ready, flying in August 1943, and doing so better than expected.

The A-1 began delivery into service in November 1944, massively armed with 15mm, 20mm and 30mm cannons. It was extremely fast and handled well, and luckily was never encountered in service by Allied forces, despite a total of 38 being built and in service by the end of the War.

Like the Messerchmitt Me163, Hitler himself demanded that the aircraft be converted to a bomber role, delaying the project by over 18 months. The aircraft could have therefore been in service as soon as mid-1944, which would have played major mayhem in Allied bombing programs.









Number built: 38 in service (bold is mine, I've always figured about 2 dozen in service :d ), 89 airframes/prototypes altogether. General characteristics Dornier Do335:




Engines: 2x 1,900hp Damlier Benz DB 603G 12-cylinder liquid-cooled inverted vee, in push/pull configuration
Wingspan: 45 ft 4in (13.8m)
Length: 45 ft 6 in (13.87m)
Speed: 474mph (763 km/h)
Rate of Climb: 4,430 ft/min
Ceiling: 37,400 ft (11,470m)
Range: Internal tanks & clean, 2,050km (1,280 miles); with drop tanks, 3,750km (2,330 miles)
Armament: 1x 30mm MK 103 cannon firing through propeller hub, 2x 15mm MG 151/15 machine guns above nose; racks for light stores and centreline rack for 1x 1,100lb (500kg) bomb.





Okay back to the fuel question, simTech had the internal fuel into two tanks which I knew to be incorrect. And everything I'd been about to find points to a 325gl main and a total internal capacity of between 520 & 530. So I set the wing tanks to 100. I also peeked into the CFS 3 Do 335 airfile as I figured the MS CFS Aces Team had better sources & resources than what simTech did and they had the same answer. Here's what I've currently got in my fuel section:





[fuel]
Center1=-15.500000,0.000000,0.000000,325.000000,0.000000
LeftMain=-15.700000,-5.800000,-1.300000,100.000000,0.000000
RightMain=-15.700000,5.800000,-1.300000,100.000000,0.000000
fuel_type= 1.000
number_of_tank_selectors= 1
electric_pump=0

JMO, but I've always thought that the simTech airfile was out to lunch in the handling department. From everything I've read from Dornier test pilot reports to Capt Eric Brown's postwar test flights for the British, the Pfeil was surprisingly a joy to fly. If Dornier had been allowed to build the 335 on their original schedule, we'd have had one very nasty opponent over Europe in it.

Right now the main problem I see with the Pfeil is low speed handling. But I guess you can't have everything ;)

Looking forward to testing out your flight model!

[Gnoopey]

big thx Willy :)

I'm pretty glad - we obviously did similar things (sneak peaking into the CFS3 stuff etc.).

OK - I'd got the same tank info as you - only a minor difference of 2 USG - I'd used 99 USG per wing tank :d

Mr. Wood is showing us a 3D model with B-2 armament ==> http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/do335.html ... so therefore I'd prepared an aircraft.cfg with both armament versions - an A-1 and the B-2 with the B-2 as the default - that costs two (2) mph in top speed.

Couldn't go higher than around 4000 fpm for initial climb - must be a spreadsheet 'bug' (which would be of course MY fault, NOT Jerry's!)- the B-2 armament does 'cost' 242 fpm, too.

But ..... this baby accelerates like an early rocket - yeeehaaaw :)

Here's the main params now with the latest changes included:

A-1 armament:

+ Weight: 17376 lbs Max 24330 lbs
+ Power: 1750 hp MIL 1900 hp WEP
+ 8.5g Corner speed: 296 mph
+ Max speed @ SL: 409 mph
+ Max speed: 474 mph @ 32800 ft
+ Climb rate: 4000 ft/min @ 156 mph
Flight Dynamics By: Tom Kohler
Mudpond Virtual Aircraft @ Gnoopey's - © 2005
FD Build 12 - 22.12.2005 21:55 CET
Flight Dynamics Workbook V2.84.50g

B-2 armament:

+ Weight: 18020 lbs Max 24330 lbs
+ Power: 1750 hp MIL 1900 hp WEP
+ 8.5g Corner speed: 302 mph
+ Max speed @ SL: 409 mph
+ Max speed: 472 mph @ 32800 ft
+ Climb rate: 3760 ft/min @ 160 mph
Flight Dynamics By: Tom Kohler
Mudpond Virtual Aircraft @ Gnoopey's - © 2005
FD Build 11 - 22.12.2005 21:51 CET
Flight Dynamics Workbook V2.84.50g

---

so ... here it is - take it as is - just copy / paste the stuff all [] sections below all the [fltsim.x] sections!

Any feedback appreciated!

BTW - fully automated ILS landing (coupled with 'otto') already tested successfully!

BTW2 - for WEP, you'd want to include a WEP gauge e.g. like this ...

panel.cfg - [Window00]
//
//
gauge27=jwb_WEP!wep,830,490,27

[Moses03]

Dang it Gnoop. I was all comfortable with simTOM's airfile and now you go and throw a spanner in the works! ;)

The best I got out of simTOM's was around GS430 @ FL220. His max indicated speed was 760! Quite the change from your 522. So much for those near Mach 1 power dives. :d

I used the B-2 airfile since it is matches the exterior model. Didn't bother with the A-1. No point unless we have a non-wing cannon model to use IMO. WEP not added yet.

FL220 GS396 (455MPH)
FL260 GS404 (464MPH)
FL300 GS408 (269MPH)
FL320 GS409 (470MPH) <----fastest

Tanks full or tanks half full had little or no effect.

Pros:
-I like the airfile because it matches the real world performance better.
-Extra fuel with the 3 tank config is much needed.
-Low speed handling is improved (Willy will like this)


Cons:
-Unless everyone who decides to fly the 335 for the race adopts the new airfile, those of us who fly it with the real specs will be at a disadvantage.
-Plane will not rotate until you hit 140kias (no flap+heavy trim. Fliger's airfile for the CFS2/FS9 model that Willy and I played with had this same characteristic I think - can't remember exactly as I abandoned it after simTOM released the complete FS9 package. Plane will rotate at 116kias with 2 notches of flap. Original will rotate at 95kias without flap and some trim)
-Climbout is much slower. i.e. 270kias at 1000fpm (Howard 500 will beat that)

Your cfg was missing the landing lights. Not historically accurate but much needed at dark unlit airports.

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0 = 3, -3.84, -22.23, 0.45, fx_navred ,
light.1 = 3, -3.84, 22.23, 0.45, fx_navgre ,
light.2 = 3, -23.39, 0.00, 7.68, fx_navwhi ,
light.3 = 1, -24.60, 0.00, 8.09, fx_beacon ,
light.4 = 1, -24.33, 0.00, -5.22, fx_beacon ,
light.5 = 4, 1.02, 0.24, 2.53, fx_vclight ,
light.6 = 5, -1.16, -13.66, -0.23, fx_landing , 30.00, 0.00, 0.00
light.7 = 5, -1.32, -14.21, -0.20, fx_landing , 30.00, 0.00, 0.00

Smokesystem as well:

[SMOKESYSTEM]
// (feet) vertical, longitudinal, lateral,
SMOKE.0=0.00, 7.00, -1.84, FX_HB_FS2002_ENG_SMOKE,
SMOKE.1=0.00, 7.00, 1.84, FX_HB_FS2002_ENG_SMOKE,
SMOKE.2=0.00, -14.00, -1.73, FX_HB_FS2002_ENG_SMOKE,
SMOKE.3=0.00, -14.00, 1.77, FX_HB_FS2002_ENG_SMOKE,
SMOKE.4=0.00, -10.00, -22.65, FX_HB_CONTRAIL_S,
SMOKE.5=0.00, -10.00, 22.65, FX_HB_CONTRAIL_S,


There is some feedback for ya-

Moses


335 trials at Edwards AFB:
http://tinypic.com/iz8gom.jpg

[Willy]

Moses, just a quick thought about the pros and cons of which airfile to use. Those that use the old will be having to deal with the low speed handling issues unless they become very well versed in it. Gnoop caught me off guard with this as I was planning on flying the Alps run over again today in the NDM with the old file. Looks like I get to practice with the new one.

been rather busy today test piloting a certain P-51 to meet a coming deadline, so I didn't get much chance to deal with the 335. But that's pretty much a wrap now, so I'm off from virtual North American to virtual Dornier.... ;)

[Ferry_vO]

Back to the race; I have a few questions.

The whole team should fly every leg, is that correct ?
Does the whole team have to use the same aircraft ?
Do we need to use the same aircraft for the duration of the race ?

I guess every one should use the Duenna; Do we use the fastest or slowest time for each team ?
Or do we track time by posting on the forum, like the RTW ?
Do we have to post after each leg or when a team finishes the entire flight ?

[Willy]

Just my twee centimes on these.....

Back to the race; I have a few questions.

The whole team should fly every leg, is that correct ?

I'd say yes. All members of a team are to fly every leg.

Does the whole team have to use the same aircraft ?

No, each pilot can chose his own mount, but it helps if you all have aircraft with similar flight envelopes

Do we need to use the same aircraft for the duration of the race ?

Yes, the same one from start to finish. Just seems more sporting.

I guess every one should use the Duenna; Do we use the fastest or slowest time for each team ?

I'd say the slowest time for that leg by a team member. We need to figure out a way to include time having to refly from a crash.

Or do we track time by posting on the forum, like the RTW ?

Oh definitely. This could quite well be the answer to the above question

Do we have to post after each leg or when a team finishes the entire flight ?

I'd say each leg. Adds to the excitement to know how the other teams are standing

[Milton Shupe]

Back to the race; I have a few questions.

The whole team should fly every leg, is that correct ?
Does the whole team have to use the same aircraft ?
Do we need to use the same aircraft for the duration of the race ?

I guess every one should use the Duenna; Do we use the fastest or slowest time for each team ?
Or do we track time by posting on the forum, like the RTW ?
Do we have to post after each leg or when a team finishes the entire flight ?

My personal opinions:
The whole team should fly every leg, is that correct ?
Team choice, however if only one flies a leg, redoing the leg will cost severely. If two or more fly, then best completion time is used. (Note this differs from what has been discussed but will help keep the race shorter and competition tighter. It also allows someone to skip a leg or two if RW jumps in.)

Does the whole team have to use the same aircraft ?
No, multiple aircraft adds intra-team competition and fun. :-)

Do we need to use the same aircraft for the duration of the race ?
No, multiple aircraft adds pilot challenge under duress. :-)

I guess every one should use the Duenna;
Yes
Do we use the fastest or slowest time for each team ?
Fastest just like with "Best Ball" in golf.
Or do we track time by posting on the forum, like the RTW ?
Same posting procedure (this is practice help for RTW)
Do we have to post after each leg or when a team finishes the entire flight ?
After each leg is best to keep the RTW spirit and practice.

[Ferry_vO]

Hmm, two replies, two different answers to some questions. :d

We still need to figure out a few things I see.

Anyone else wants to share his opinion ?

[Milton Shupe]

LOL Exactly what this thread is about. Let's keep it fun and challenging, and easy to track. No losers here; just winners. :-)

EDIT: Other ideas to improve are welcomed

[Willy]

LOL Exactly what this thread is about. Let's keep it fun and challenging, and easy to track. No losers here; just winners. :-)

EDIT: Other ideas to improve are welcomed

What Milton said!! :d

The main idea is to have fun.

[kevib1]

I agree with Willy and would like to see a person using the same plane throughout.

If a member can't complete a leg it would be nice is someone else can step in to fly their plane to the next location. Thus the intension is to get three planes along the entire course.

Each person in the team should be free to pick the plane they fly but should bare in mind that the point is for the team to fly together. All flying the same plane would make for some nice formatin flying.

Perhaps we should fly a plane from our own team region or is that a little limiting? It would add to the inter-continental rivalry but I think there are enough fast planes from all around the globe.

Anyone up for some repainting in team colours. Perhaps a paint job using the Olympic colours or flags/ensignia of the teams nationalities?

I would rather see a combined time for the entire race per team perhaps combining the faster 3 time of each team across the entire course.
Alterrnatively, one time could easily be given by using the third man to complete each leg. This maintains the team atmosphere rather than just straight fastest man for each leg and may encourage a team to stick together. Otherwise it may as well be an individual race.
By taking the third mans time also encourages a safer less risk strategy with a safe landing being more important than crashing in the rush to land fastest. Again good practise for the next RTW.

Do we, like the RTW race take the time from the start of the first leg t ocompletion of the last or just flying time thus allowing a team to take a break for RW if need be. If flight time is only around 3-4 hours and hopefully all route planning has been done in advance planes should only be on the tarmac to refuel and the pilots to post and take on fuel themselves :d
That's my chocolate pennies worth. :santahat:

Kev

[mississippi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferror
Back to the race; I have a few questions.

The whole team should fly every leg, is that correct ?



I'd say yes. All members of a team are to fly every leg. What abort people that has some thing come's up and can not do some leg's ? :173go1: :d

[Willy]

I'd like to see the team members stick together on the legs myself rather than spread out into individual races.

On our online "Cornut Flights", we usually try to stay at least within sight of each other. Makes for a more enjoyable experience.

[Willy]

Flew a leg in some oldtimers just before signing off tonite....

[Milton Shupe]

I'd like to see the team members stick together on the legs myself rather than spread out into individual races.

On our online "Cornut Flights", we usually try to stay at least within sight of each other. Makes for a more enjoyable experience.

Well, of course. Kind of like Nascar teams; everyone leaves together for each leg, but races to the next stop. When everyone is down and posted, then off together to the next stop. Much like we have been practicing. :-)

[Senator_Tehocan]

btw, what's the current practise server? i connected to netwings serveral times, but nobody was there

[Willy]

We've been running on the NetWings server in the evenings starting around 9-10pm US Central time.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I completed all legs between yesterday and today and got the following statistics for the 13 legs.

DH Hornet

Mean flight time - 13 min 41 secs
Mean Duenna time - 14 mins 00 secs
Mean GS - 233.28 Kts

I also had 1 crash - real bad weather and visibility and did a stall and fall at less than 80 Kts and 30 ft or so above the runway - should have gone around. Also I had two major go arounds one of which was a hunt for airport in the snow - leg speeds were 204 and 180 Kts.

I was roughly 20 secs per leg Duenna time slower than Gnoop. Of course I wondered why and realized that my routine on every leg was to 1) set up the flight plan 2) go to the runway 3) start Duenna 4) program autopilot 5) take-off 6) land (inc control+.) 7) stop Duenna. Talk about a systematic error! I should have switched steps 3 and 4 around! No doubt they cost me that 20 secs or more since I program all three (Hdg, Alt, climb out VS).

I suggest that people have a checklist to avoid this kind of error. I plan to.

Also I have figured out what seems to be a pretty fast way of flying the Hornet. Takeoff, max-climb, cruise, step down to around 8000 or so feet if you can, at 6-7 miles or so hold nose up at idle bleeding off speed, then full flaps and gear down (so you don't forget) :mixedsmi: dive short of runway, at right time shallow dive watch speed apply short burst(s) of power if necessary to stay above about 100 Kts, over runway put plane down on ground (don't float or you stall) at less than 100 but greater than 85 Kts and stop. Note that in the hornet you can stall diving at the ground (depending on angle of course) so pay attention to airspeed! I've no doubt it's technically wrong but it does seem to work.

What would a real racer or pilot do different?

I'm in this weekend don't know if online will work though as I have a long history of always getting booted.

-Ed-

[PilatusTurbo]

Which server is the actual race on, Netwings Right?

I plan to be racing this Feb, and will honor that promise regardless of other hobby-related obligations. That's very cool, our team name will be "Team Outhouse"! :d I like it, talk about an original name, too. :d

Easy Ed, was the visibility absolute 0/0 when you crashed? If so, hopefully we're allowed to divert to another airport in the real race. In real life, you DO NOT land at any airport with Absolute 0 visibility, not even IFR procedures. If you cannot see the runway until you touchdown, it's far too dangerous. I hope there are provisions in the RTW Race for detours, because landing in a full IFR is not realistic, and it isn't done to my knowledge. Please let me know if I'm wrong, but my father does have some real experience, and he says it doesn't happen. Fliger! :d Do airline pilots land at 0/0 vis airports even with ILS, or do you have to divert?

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Yeah I'm sure it's on Netwings. I'm also sure there will be more detail coming in the next day or two.

The visibility wasn't 0/0 but it was low runway appeared at about 100 to 150 feet above it. By the time I realized I was long I stalled. Perhaps just as well as finding it again would have been a chore. In a Cessna or similar I'd a probably been fine. In the RTW yes you can divert - In this practice I'm not sure what we'll do if anything is that socked in.

-Ed-

[Willy]

I've ran the course several times now in Yippee and while the P-38 is not the fastest aircraft out there, it gets the job done with good handling and none of the tail dragger uglies.

I've done some practice at what I feel to be the toughest stop on the route, LOWZ, in really poor vis. The best I can advise for it is to make it the first time in if you can. If you have to go around, finding it again can really be a :censored: . That one is a forest with a runway stuck in the middle. :d

[JohnM]

I'm bringing out the big guns (bottle rockets) when you guys fly over my yard :costumes: :costumes:

Hey, any of you guys up to play with a new version of the Duenna with a real-time transponder + online flight logging? I'm finishing it up now and could use some beta-testers :isadizzy:

Have a good run, guys!
John

[Moses03]

John- Check your pm's about the latest Duenna testing.

Where do things stand with the Alps race? I have not seen any new discussion about the start day & time. Willy's race post at Com-Central has had just one iffy response unfortunately.

I don't like loose ends! :d


Moses

[Willy]

Right now as it stands, I'm hoping to kick it off on the 7th. Time TBD. I'd like to get this out of the way so we can really get to practicing for the RTW.

Tomorrow (well today now) I'm planning on running a full length Alps Rally practice at 1300 US Central (not sure what that is GMT/Zulu now). This will be with duenna and the whole nine yards.

John, I'd be more than happy to test out your latest version. Not sure what those new features are all about though... ;)