MV DHC-2 Beaver released!

[YoYo]

Hi,
I'd like to open the new topic about final version of DHC-2 of Milviz (for sticky). The model was released:
http://milviz.com/flight/products/DHC2/index.php .
The model is ready for FSX, P3Dv2 and v3 and future P3Dv4 (will).

btw.
be ready for service pack (or new version) also.
Few small things could be corrected (discovered recently).

:wavey:

[mgr]

Hiya,



Two Body Styles - Passenger version with enlarged rear windows, cargo version with original round rear windows and cargo with selectable visibility.


Are there any screenshots available of the "cargo version" body? So far i could tell all screenshots on the milviz website are from the other bodymodel wiwht enlarged read windows?

Regards,

Marcel

PS Found one ;-)
http://www.gunnarvm.com/beaver/Milviz%20wheels.jpg

[Pat Mussotte]

She's a beauty! Here a vid on how to start the workhorse



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Vo0ve4TEY&list=PL0ZWg-wPO6OlYJLDfP7umBbh8DQpUInur&index=1

Thank you MilViz

Cheers

[stovall]

This aircraft is a real beauty. Great to fly and again an outstanding product from Milviz.

[blanston12]

From those who have it so far, does it allow you to start with the engine running or is it always a cold and dark startup?

[JimmyRFR]

From those who have it so far, does it allow you to start with the engine running or is it always a cold and dark startup?

It allows you to configure start-up one of three ways: A) Cold and Dark, always, regardless of how your previous flight may of been saved. B) Ready to Start, which means that it doesn't start running, but switches & battery are on. Again, this is regardless of how your previous flight may of been saved. C) Ready to Fly. This isn't quite an 'engines running' scenario - what this does is it simply loads the aircraft according to how your previous flight was saved, or how your previous aircraft load state was (as in, if you're in a running aircraft, and you switch to the Beaver, it'll stay running).

The third option is recommended if you're saving flights to pick them up again later (like in-flight), or if you're a 'save it how I left it' kind of guy.

[speedy70]

There were loads of other repaints in the old thread.

Are you going to upload them fellas and if so where?

Cheers Chris

[YoYo]

Cold and Dark startup tutorial:


http://youtu.be/-01y-Un4ioo

[Skyhawk18]

There were loads of other repaints in the old thread.

Are you going to upload them fellas and if so where?

Cheers Chris

http://www.gunnarvm.com/beaver/DH2_package.jpg

[Boss86001]

The Beaver looks beautiful! :encouragement: Looking forward to some beat up bush liveries.

[lownslo]

Milviz's page on the Beaver mentions that the Milviz / REX WX Advantage Weather Radar is included in the purchase. After purchase can we also add the radar to other aircraft?

Thanks,

Greg

[YoYo]

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver28J_aqxwxes.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver29J_aqxwxeq.jpg

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver30J_aqxwxwr.jpg

[speedy70]

We Have that one Yoyo.

Cheers Chris

[olderndirt]

That one was flying out of the CAP hangar at Merrill Field, Anchorage in the seventies.

[TuFun]

Just received an email from Milviz... update Milviz_DHC-2_v1.170526 is available.

[modelr]

Just received an email from Milviz... update Milviz_DHC-2_v1.170526 is available.


Maybe that's why my first three attempts to download it failed... They must have been updating the download file. Finally got it about 1/2 hour ago, updated file number.

[Lane Street]

Cold and Dark startup tutorial:

Thanks for posting.

Two points, if I may.

Whats up with the prop? It should start spinning as soon as you hit the starter switch. In the video it 'stutters' a bit before it starts spinning.

Also, when starting the Beaver (most radials in fact) you let the engine spin a few times under starter power before turning on the mags. This is noted in the manual.

cheers,
Lane

[MustangL2W]

My Beaver that is depicted as the beautiful brown Beaver N297B is actually N117F paint wise, with N297B on the Instrument panel. Is this a standard "quirk" in everyone's download or did others actually get the brown Beaver??

[stearmandriver]

2 possible bugs I've found... anyone else had problems, or am I a dumbass?

1. Starter, the prop almost refuses to turn at first.
2. Skis... one sticks to the ground and the plane leans over like something broke when they're lowered.

[ncooper]

Hello,
Yes, I see both of those things.
Wouldn't bug reports be more useful on the Milviz forums?

[MustangL2W]

2 possible bugs I've found... anyone else had problems, or am I a dumbass?

1. Starter, the prop almost refuses to turn at first.
2. Skis... one sticks to the ground and the plane leans over like something broke when they're lowered.

Yep... I have encountered the same. NOT complaining.... just trying to help Milviz polish the Beaver and make it better. I think it is flying better. Seems a bit more "Draggy" when the flaps come down.
deHavilland airplanes tend to slow down even when the nose in pointed in the direction you usually expect the airspeed to increase! "Flaps full, force the nose down more to break the float and minimize air-speed decay... add power to slow the sink rate...backpressure to "quit" flying!" Yep...that's the deHavilland way. A Canadian Elevator!

[stearmandriver]

Hello,
Yes, I see both of those things.
Wouldn't bug reports be more useful on the Milviz forums?

For sure. Usually I assume I'm doing something wrong ;-). Just wanted to verify.

Same here, not complaining either. A few little bugs are always expectedon on version 1.0!

[YoYo]

Btw. the virtual cockpit has an own programming (so for example Saitek panels dosen't work - especially Saitek Switch Panel).
I created LVAR profile for MV Beaver so if You whant I can share it (works with SPAD.next: https://www.spadnext.com/home.html ).

[YoYo]

Delivery from Tongass Fjords.

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver34J_aqxwwnx.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver3JP_aqxwwnn.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver17J_aqxwspp.jpg

Cargo version.

[cavaricooper]

Hey! That update must have fixed the glass- looking good.

Carl

[stovall]

Hello,
Yes, I see both of those things.
Wouldn't bug reports be more useful on the Milviz forums?

A tremendous amount of work went into the Beaver from many who fly the her and directly from the manual. Believe me this is a labor of love for those who created this beauty. If you see something that needs to be addressed, the only way it can be corrected is by posting on the Milviz DHC-2 Beaver Support Forum. Please post any concerns there. Thanks

[dvj]

Delivery from Tongass Fjords.

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver34J_aqxwwnx.jpg


Cargo version.
Great shot!

[ezunino]

Updated to v1.170526. After that, when I open MVAMS, select de Havilland tab, says a update is available is you select update, appears a window OMG GUID 3 with various options.. Any idea?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50330&stc=1 http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50331&stc=1

[billhuntsman]

Milviz forum says a fix has been made and a link to the new updater will be sent out soon.

Bill

[RobM]

Ah, someone else has the Beaver auto update with a GUID generator box. I just posted on the Milviz forums.

Thanks - Rob

PS: oops, faster typer than me. :adoration: Thanks - Rob

[ncooper]

As has been mentioned already, such questions are best asked of the developers.
There is a quick fix, supplied by them.

Gentlemen, A quick fix to the issue while the updater is under scrutiny.
Go to > AppData\Local\MVAMS\Versions\DHC2 < and delete the > DHC2 < folder .
Alternatively , click No when asked to update .

[ezunino]

Thanks Friends

[YoYo]

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver44J_aqxsrpp.jpg

Waiting for the pilot...

[dvj]

I just bought it. What the? The Pilot is NOT wearing a baseball cap! What bush pilot does not wear a dirty cap? :dizzy: I do wish they had provided the more "pointed" and narrower spinner as an optional selection. One can only hope the developer continues to update the Beaver as they do the Phantom.

-d

[griphos]

Now see here, that's a lovely spinner, that is!

[Boss86001]

Hope the Beaver gets released for FSW with VC rain effects!

[YoYo]

I just bought it. What the? The Pilot is NOT wearing a baseball cap! What bush pilot does not wear a dirty cap? :dizzy: I do wish they had provided the more "pointed" and narrower spinner as an optional selection. One can only hope the developer continues to update the Beaver as they do the Phantom.

-d

Btw. You have right but as I know Milviz is working on the figure of pilot (but don't know exactly for which model, future, present...) so maybe one day ? ;) (not soon, I'm sure).
I very like figures in products of Carenado/Alabeo. They are perfect here (+the last AH models are fantastic also in this subject). To do realistic person in FSX/P3D it's a very hard job.

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver48J_aqxaqqx.jpg

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver47J_aqxaqqr.jpg

[dvj]

Btw. You have right but as I know Milviz is working on the figure of pilot (but don't know exactly for which model, future, present...) so maybe one day ? ;) (not soon, I'm sure).
I very like figures in products of Carenado/Alabeo. They are perfect here (+the last AH models are fantastic also in this subject). To do realistic person in FSX/P3D it's a very hard job.

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver48J_aqxaqqx.jpg

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/Beaver47J_aqxaqqr.jpg
I think at some point Carenado/Alabeo will make one of these. The AH model will be interesting. Meanwhile, this is enjoyable.

[hairyspin]

Hope the Beaver gets released for FSW with VC rain effects!

Dovetail will have to release an sdk before that's going to happen.

[Timmy74]

I am so enjoying this aircraft!!! Thank you Milviz.

Now hopefully some VH and ZK paints turn up soon...!? -Nudge, nudge, wink, wink-

[BendyFlyer]

I just bought it.....I do wish they had provided the more "pointed" and narrower spinner as an optional selection. One can only hope the developer continues to update the Beaver as they do the Phantom. -d

I would agree that is a stop point for me. I have never seen a Beaver in Oz with a spinner like that. Which leads to my next question for all those who bought or are buying the product - Is there a no spinner version? I could not see one in the publicity pictures. Again most of the Beavers in Oz had no spinner at all.

[ncooper]

Here are some nice images.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/05/f1/6c/05f16c59c0afa70608b6bd52eafd2beb.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-H2FwpT5QEZU/Vi8h8hyYS2I/AAAAAAAAHEI/50-e83d4gvw/s1600/VHPCF_REDIT.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9zs0bln1Q3A/UlVDiwSHuUI/AAAAAAAAclE/O1pflycrk-o/s1600/VH-IDO-waiting+(1).JPG

[speedy70]

Great post Nick.

Cheers Chris

[BendyFlyer]

Nice images Nick. Helps reinforce my point about the spinner, there is a significant different in the overall size and length. The last one is IDO, did an hour and half in it once upon a time, and if I am not mistaken that would be Gladstone, can't miss the chimney stacks strategically place downwind (hills on the other side), not the place to be on a dark and stormy night on a bad weather circuit after completing an instrument approach. Then again when I think of it I cannot recall a Beaver in OZ every being operated IFR (legally).

[TuFun]

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/05/28/B1.jpg

http://www.fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/05/28/B2.jpg

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/sal_provenzano/dhc-2_beaver/images/dhc-2_beaver_8_of_9.jpg

[n4gix]

I would agree that is a stop point for me. I have never seen a Beaver in Oz with a spinner like that. Which leads to my next question for all those who bought or are buying the product - Is there a no spinner version? I could not see one in the publicity pictures. Again most of the Beavers in Oz had no spinner at all.
Yes, you can opt for no spinner if you wish. I've seen both the rounder nose and the pointy nose spinners used in Real Life TM

[griphos]

Like I've said before, flight simmers are a very spoiled bunch....

[Daveroo]

Like I've said before, flight simmers are a very spoiled bunch....


LOL,yes "we" are...

there is a DHC-2 MK.1 that flies in and out of the Auburn Airport several times a week,or did,recently its down in the Bay Area. N299EE. from South Lake Seaplanes out of Glenbrook,NV (Lake Tahoe) my point to this,it flies directly over my house...kills me to hear these radial engined planes and not be able to get outside to see them in time.

[binarkansas]

OK, I've been a flight simmer ever since the Chuck Yeager flight sim days. This morning I purchased the MilViz Beaver and all in all like it very much. I am not too particular. But all this talk about spinners makes me wish the two bladed prop also had the option of a spinner. The spinner modeled is exactly what is on a lot of R985 powered aircraft with the two bladed prop.

How's that for my only complaint! I am now waiting for repaints...........it'd take me about two months to do one myself!

Cheers

Barry

[binarkansas]

OOPS! I just looked up a little on the forum and see a photo of a two blade model with and without the spinner.............what command does that?

Barry

[binarkansas]

See title.

[THibben]

Do any of the planes have instrument panels a different color that white?

Thanks,

Tom

[ncooper]

Just the one colour.

[thefrog]

OOPS! I just looked up a little on the forum and see a photo of a two blade model with and without the spinner.............what command does that?

Barry
You need to run the MVAMS utility from your desktop icon.

[stearmandriver]

Hello,

I've submitted an email to register at the Milviz support forums (this is my first Milviz product), but in the meantime I thought I'd ask here: has anyone had an issue running the updater? When I try to run it (anti-virus disabled, running as admin, Windows 7) I get an error about "integrity check failed". Tried deleting and re-downloading, same issue. Any thoughts?

Thanks...

[dvj]

Hello,

I've submitted an email to register at the Milviz support forums (this is my first Milviz product), but in the meantime I thought I'd ask here: has anyone had an issue running the updater? When I try to run it (anti-virus disabled, running as admin, Windows 7) I get an error about "integrity check failed". Tried deleting and re-downloading, same issue. Any thoughts?

Thanks...

There is a fix to the updater coming with the next version.

[Pat Mussotte]

Hi Guys!
For those who installed the Beaver with the latest installer(v1.170528) do you have the same problem as I have(Ok it's P3D but maybe it's the same thing in FSX). All the versions are installed in the "Airplanes" folder but...
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50369&stc=1
as you ca see the Toundra, skis and floats version don't show. I tried to report to MilViz but I can't reach the site for a DNS problem.

Cheers

Pat

[simondix]

Just checked my FSX=SE and all appears OK.

[Pat Mussotte]

Thank you simondix! I'll see with Milviz as soon as I can access the forum!

[BendyFlyer]

Like I've said before, flight simmers are a very spoiled bunch....

Nope not at all, (well some are) it is just in this part of the world, and there were a lot of beavers about once, spinners were for some reason not used or taken off. I have never seen a Beaver in this country (OZ) with the large spinner thats all. They used to use them for spraying and super spreading (There were about 20 operating in my district alone for probably 20 years or so), later they went on to be converted back and most ended up as amphibians. So the large spinner seemed very odd thats all. But now they have a no spinner option, well, I am a simple soul, it now looks right.

[Timmy74]

Hi Guys!
For those who installed the Beaver with the latest installer(v1.170528) do you have the same problem as I have(Ok it's P3D but maybe it's the same thing in FSX). All the versions are installed in the "Airplanes" folder but...
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50369&stc=1
as you ca see the Toundra, skis and floats version don't show. I tried to report to MilViz but I can't reach the site for a DNS problem.

Cheers

Pat

Hello Pat,

If I may...did you uninstall your previous version before installing the latest one by any chance?

Mine is working fine and that is what I did. Not saying that is the answer but it may help?

I hope you get it sorted.

Cheers,
Tim.

[Pat Mussotte]

Hi Tim!
Yes I did it and I checked if the planes folders were removed from"Airplanes". I'm gonna do it again and check if the folder in "AppData/Local is removed just in case!
Regards

Pat

[griphos]

Nope not at all, (well some are) it is just in this part of the world, and there were a lot of beavers about once, spinners were for some reason not used or taken off. I have never seen a Beaver in this country (OZ) with the large spinner thats all. They used to use them for spraying and super spreading (There were about 20 operating in my district alone for probably 20 years or so), later they went on to be converted back and most ended up as amphibians. So the large spinner seemed very odd thats all. But now they have a no spinner option, well, I am a simple soul, it now looks right.

Actually, that is kind of what I mean: people demanding a developer model the plane in every way as they have personally experienced it in their little part of the world or they won't buy it (taking the trouble to point this out in a release or other thread). I'm not saying that's what you did, but that's what some people are doing. It's funny that we have been fortunate to have gotten planes that in real life are modified in many different ways from developers who have taken pains to offer options to allow us to configure them differently, and we have turned that gift into a baseline expectation.

Spoiled. That's what we are.

I started simming when an expectation that the sky would look like sky and the ground like ground was actually a bit too much to ask. Planes didn't have external models!

I was was flying the SMS Beaver last night in XP11 in BC and the suspension of disbelief was incredible. There were just many and long moments when I was transported into the feeling of actually flying. To have that, but to demand that the spinner, which I CANNOT see while flying, look a very particular way....

...spoiled.

[MustangL2W]

My hat is off to MILVIZ, This Beaver is a fantastic representation of its real world counterpart. I have flown it the last couple days and the modeling really allows the STOL capability and fly's power settings like the aircraft is known for. Hope some painters put eventually put this one in uniform and allow us to enjoy the U-6A down the road. I am still amazed by the accuracy of the T-50 Bobcat, and now the Beaver is right there too. Thanks to Milviz for tackling some really iconic aircraft and really doing them the justice they deserve in the FlightSim world!!

[BendyFlyer]

Griphos -I understand the point your making. There are a lot of unreal expectations regarding flight sim models. There are also countless variations and changes in real life aircraft that no modeller or creator can hope to emulate, I have seen more variations of instrumentation and avionics in real world aircraft (the same type) for example than one can imagine, because something broke, or something better was available etc. The DC-3 C-47 is a case in point- there was no standard panel layout and they all ended up different for different reasons. I am no purist either.

Back to MILVIZ I have no doubt that this is a high quality product, all there work is. That was not the point. But a lot of sim users are not in North America and local variations such as repaints etc are important but not critical. Because I do not have a repaint in the colour scheme or registration of an aircraft I would like does not mean I would not use the model, the only things I look for is fidelity, in the way it looks but most importantly the numbers I see in the sim when I use it. I have rebuilt the panels and gauges and made changes to a number of models I have bought to get the replication I wanted and that is part of the fun of this activity, flight simulation that I like most, the fact that you can.

We are indeed fortunate that there are groups and businesses like MILVIZ who are prepared to do the hard work to recreate an aeroplane from the past for flight sim and for that one is grateful not ungrateful.

As far as the spinner is concerned well it seems that they were not fitted in Australia from 1948 until about the mid 1980's, and yes there are some that have the large spinner. I have no doubt that the spinner issue had something to do with engine cooling and it is most common in amphibians not wheeled versions, so there you are. Other than that it looks like a great product and I will in due course add it to my hangar. :untroubled:

And I have sidetracked this post enough.

[Josh Patterson]

The Beaver looks great. I haven't had a bad Milviz product yet (granted I don't have all of them) but they seem to stay on top of glitches and work to put out top notch stuff. (I don't even know what version the F-4 is running anymore, but I keep getting update emails to fix stuff I didn't even know was broken!) With the Beaver and Otter that I think AH is putting out it looks like I'm going to have a couple more of DeHavilland's finest in my hangar!:jump:

[Timmy74]

The Beaver looks great. I haven't had a bad Milviz product yet (granted I don't have all of them) but they seem to stay on top of glitches and work to put out top notch stuff. (I don't even know what version the F-4 is running anymore, but I keep getting update emails to fix stuff I didn't even know was broken!) With the Beaver and Otter that I think AH is putting out it looks like I'm going to have a couple more of DeHavilland's finest in my hangar!:jump:

We just need a good DHC-4 Caribou now too!!!!

[dvj]

I don't think anyone is suggesting not to buy because of the spinner design chosen by Milviz. If you do a web search on the DHC-2, most of the pictures of aircraft employ the more pointy and shorter spinner. It would nice to see this as an optional selection along with floats only in the MVAMS at some future point. That's all. Oh, and let's not forget the optional baseball cap for the bush pilot too. ;-)

[MDIvey]

Someone posted a photo ("Airtrooper") I think it was and I thought I like that one. I had a bit of spare time today so messed around with Milviz paint kit. I'll do for me but I'm not sure its good enough to release. The fact that the Ailerons and elevators are not individually mapped meant I had to fudge the Camo a bit and I couldn't figure out how to get rid of the silver on the rear portion of the stationary prop but heh ho.

Matt

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50461&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50462&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50463&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50464&stc=1

[Cees Donker]

What a wonderful plane!

:applause::applause::applause:


Cees

[jpmouse]

What a wonderful plane!

:applause::applause::applause:


Cees


I heartily agree! Enjoying it immensely.

[Roger]

Someone posted a photo ("Airtrooper") I think it was and I thought I like that one. I had a bit of spare time today so messed around with Milviz paint kit. I'll do for me but I'm not sure its good enough to release. The fact that the Ailerons and elevators are not individually mapped meant I had to fudge the Camo a bit and I couldn't figure out how to get rid of the silver on the rear portion of the stationary prop but heh ho.

Matt







http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50464&stc=1

I'd like the repaint, Matt:applause:

[MDIvey]

Ok Roger no problem but it appears you're not the only one. Ill get it ready and upload it here when I can find the time... I don't mind as long as people accept it as is... warts and all, as i've spent as much time on it as I'm prepared to.

Matt

[MDIvey]

My Beaver Paint is uploaded... hope its all ok as my first attempt at uploading something here.

Matt

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50545&stc=1

[Timmy74]

My Beaver Paint is uploaded... hope its all ok as my first attempt at uploading something here.

Matt

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50545&stc=1

Thank you very much Matt. :jump:

[doublecool]

At the bottom of the page by down loads
see the extra paints

http://milviz.com/flight/products/DHC2/index.php (http://milviz.com/flight/products/DHC2/index.php)

[cavaricooper]

Can anyone provide feedback on the v4 patch and on the FDE? I am waiting to install until they release the installer for v4, and I am hoping that the service releases are shaping her into an indispensable aircraft for the backcountry flyer......

TIA

Carl

PS- really interested in the axis assignment issue, as I use the A2A 182 as well, and that one requires the throttle be mapped to Throttle, not Throttle 1.... any insights would be most appreciated.

[jeansy]

Can anyone provide feedback on the v4 patch and on the FDE? I am waiting to install until they release the installer for v4, and I am hoping that the service releases are shaping her into an indispensable aircraft for the backcountry flyer......

TIA

Carl

PS- really interested in the axis assignment issue, as I use the A2A 182 as well, and that one requires the throttle be mapped to Throttle, not Throttle 1.... any insights would be most appreciated.

its still in testing

[YoYo]

Are You ready for hard work this summer?

Expansion incoming!

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC21JP_qpqswwp.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC22JP_qpqswwe.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC23JP_qpqswww.jpg

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC24JP_qpqswws.jpg

Screenies in P3Dv4.

[Boss86001]

Great work on the skin!

[stearmandriver]

Are You ready for hard work this summer?

Expansion incoming!

http://s10.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC21JP_qpqswwp.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC22JP_qpqswwe.jpg

http://s5.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC23JP_qpqswww.jpg

http://s2.ifotos.pl/img/CDDHC24JP_qpqswws.jpg

Screenies in P3Dv4.

Nice! The duster looks like fun, but I think I'm more eager for the straight floats, STOL kit and the FDE tweaks. Any idea on release? Are we talking hours, days, weeks? ;-)

[speedy70]

Isn't it strange that we get pictures of the modified aircraft here but nothing on the milviz forum.

Cheers Chris

[cavaricooper]

Yo-Yo et al-

The ag. kit is great, but please tell me more about the FDE and how she FLIES... there was work remaining... has progress been made?

Best- C

[jeansy]

Isn't it strange that we get pictures of the modified aircraft here but nothing on the milviz forum.

Cheers Chris

not really, MV have been posting pics and updates on Facebook of several new products for a long time

[cavaricooper]

UPDATE AND EXPANSION PACK OUT NOW- installing :)

C

[Penzoil3]

As for the announcement... We are releasing a very extensive expansion pack for the DHC-2, which includes straight floats, a STOL wing mod kit, and a version of the DHC-2 with a fully functional crop duster. This expansion brings the total number of DHC-2 variants to 11! The expansion pack is a separate purchase, with a regular price of $14.99. However, we are giving all current Beaver owners who purchased directly from us a $5 discount on the expansion pack for the next 30 days, bringing the price down to $9.99.

Your individual discount code is: removed

To use this discount code:
1) From our website, add the expansion pack to your shopping cart
2) Enter the provided discount code by clicking on the text that reads "Got a code?". Be sure to click on 'update' to apply the code and update your shopping cart total.
3) You may checkout your cart at any time.

This discount code will only be valid for the next 30 days. It may not be used for any other product other than the MilViz DHC-2 Spray n' Play Expansion Pack, and is only valid on our website. (Important: This discount is only available to customers of the MilViz DHC-2 Beaver who have purchased the aircraft directly from our website. Please do not share your code with anyone else.)

Learn more about the expansion pack here: http://milviz.com/flight/products/DHC2EXP/

[AussieMan]

Got my email this morning. Downloaded the upgrade but will have to wait until next pay day to get the expansion pack. Nothing was mentioned about the paint kit being upgraded though.

[cavaricooper]

It has been quite a while (with additional releases) since this post.... has there been any further work on the FDE re. ground handling during the T/O roll and in the latter stages of final approach? I keep wanting to love this one, as I waited so long for her... but she's not there yet. Any word on the clipping of the last radio digits? She's well worth knocking for a six, and I hope they do it!

Best- C

[Ranger75]

Any word on the clipping of the last radio digits?



If you are referring to the half digit showing in the standard radio stack, edit file 'radi_d.xml' in base Beaver 'panel/C310_XMLGauges'

Change 6.3 to 5.2 in these two lines:

<String>%((A:COM1 ACTIVE FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>

<String>%((A:COM1 STANDBY FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>


WS

[Rudyjo]

It has been quite a while (with additional releases) since this post.... has there been any further work on the FDE re. ground handling during the T/O roll and in the latter stages of final approach? I keep wanting to love this one, as I waited so long for her... but she's not there yet. Any word on the clipping of the last radio digits? She's well worth knocking for a six, and I hope they do it!

Best- C

I prefer to buy directly from the developers, but FSPilotshop now has 30% off the Beaver and the Expansion pack.
Would I buy it again? Without a doubt.
As someone who flies nowhere but the PNW up to Alaska and very rarely goes above 5,000ft, it's the perfect plane for me.
There are a few things that I wish Milviz did differently. I suppose it depends on how much you like flying into small places in bad weather.
If you decide to get it, I would recommend the expansion pack also.
It also comes with the MV_WX radar built into the panel

[stearmandriver]

It has been quite a while (with additional releases) since this post.... has there been any further work on the FDE re. ground handling during the T/O roll and in the latter stages of final approach? I keep wanting to love this one, as I waited so long for her... but she's not there yet. Any word on the clipping of the last radio digits? She's well worth knocking for a six, and I hope they do it!

Best- C

I so absolutely second this. I know there was a patch released at the end of December I have not had a chance to install yet, but there were no FDE changes in the changelog so I'm assuming it wasn't touched.

But she is SO CLOSE to perfect, and I think that is what makes the unrealistic tail behavior on takeoff and landing so vexing. If she flew more like a video game than a quality simulation, this kind of thing would be expected, but it IS frustrating to see a developer create such a lifelike model and then neglect something so central to taildragger flight dynamics as propwash/tail behavior during the roll, and ability to perform wheel landings when circumstances would call for them in real life.

I fully recognize that's easy for me to say, given my lack of knowledge of what goes into actually coding these things. However I can't help but observe that several other payware and freeware models more accurately represent taildragger behavior on the ground than the MV Beaver. She is, as Carl says, SO close to perfect... why not get her there?

[Rudyjo]

One more thing I should say about how it flies. And it is probably the same in the real Beaver.
How it takes off and lands has a lot to do with how it is loaded.
When you set up the plane, you select whether it is for passengers or as a cargo plane, if you select cargo, you can fill the plane up with cargo all the way to the back.
Until you change that setting, it is always loaded this way. If you don't change the amount of fuel when setting up your flight, it is always completely full.
You tend to forget how heavy the plane is when you just start up a flight and take off.
Last night I started a flight in one of the float versions and it would not get off the water. It took me awhile to figure out why, it was full of cargo and all three tanks were full. I emptied some of the cargo and reduced the amount of fuel and it took off fine.
I think that most of the people who have complained about how it handles have the plane overloaded.

[henrystreet]

I think that most of the people who have complained about how it handles have the plane overloaded.

This is SOOOO common in the ESP sims mostly because the default fuel load is full all tanks.

Milviz has endured a lot of criticism about some of its models that was a direct result of armchair pilots not checking the performance specs against the weight of the aircraft (which was accurately modeled in all the cases I've seen).

[cavaricooper]

If you are referring to the half digit showing in the standard radio stack, edit file 'radi_d.xml' in base Beaver 'panel/C310_XMLGauges'

Change 6.3 to 5.2 in these two lines:

<String>%((A:COM1 ACTIVE FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>

<String>%((A:COM1 STANDBY FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>


WS

WS- Ta! I will give that a go!


This is SOOOO common in the ESP sims mostly because the default fuel load is full all tanks.

Milviz has endured a lot of criticism about some of its models that was a direct result of armchair pilots not checking the performance specs against the weight of the aircraft (which was accurately modeled in all the cases I've seen).

... not the case this time... I LIKE how she flies MOSTLY.... there are some little bits that still need work. For some reason I really wanted to quoth, "Nevermore!" here ;)

C

[henrystreet]

For some reason I really wanted to quoth, "Nevermore!" here ;)

C

teehee ;-)

[Rudyjo]

Cavaricooper:
I only read your post #88, as it was new today.
I thought you were still on the fence about whether to buy the beaver, I didn't realize you had already bought it.
I guess my reply didn't make much sense. Anyway, I agree with you that there are a few things that I hope Milviz will update.

[stearmandriver]

I can't comment on community feedback about other MV aircraft as I don't have any, but I can say that these specific criticisms are warranted. At no weight or CG can the MV Beaver come close to replicating realistic taildragger tail behavior on the takeoff roll; nor can it replicate wheel landings - which, if you're a taildragger pilot, is one of the more fun things you can do in an airplane (not to mention being operationally dictated in some bush scenarios). For what it might be worth, not just an "armchair" pilot here.

MV confirmed on their forum that propwash is not modeled, which means the tail will never behave correctly on takeoff. I still can't figure out exactly why it can't wheel land; there's plenty of elevator effectiveness in flight but as soon as airspeed drops below a certain value on the ground, elevator effectiveness disappears all at once instead of gradually, so holding the tail up is pretty impossible.

If you choose to only perform 3 point takeoffs and landings, she flies great in my opinion. That's just not how taildraggers are always, or even usually, flown.

I still fly and enjoy her a lot, but those points really do tarnish an otherwise excellent model for me...

[Rudyjo]

I don't have the Milviz Otter, has Milviz addressed the problem in that model ? Or is it something that they just don't model.
I do have the A2A Cub and the Flight Replicas Super Cub, both of which model propwash, in both models the rear of the plane can be lifted off the ground at standstill with the brakes applied.
So It certainly can be modeled. Hopefully Milviz will put out an update that models this.
Even with it's faults, it is a very nice plane, I have no regrets about buying it.

[stearmandriver]

I don't have the Milviz Otter, has Milviz addressed the problem in that model ? Or is it something that they just don't model.
I do have the A2A Cub and the Flight Replicas Super Cub, both of which model propwash, in both models the rear of the plane can be lifted off the ground at standstill with the brakes applied.
So It certainly can be modeled. Hopefully Milviz will put out an update that models this.
Even with it's faults, it is a very nice plane, I have no regrets about buying it.

Hi there,.

I don't have the Otter either, so I'm afraid I don't know. The A2A accusimmed Cub (and even more so, their T-6) are my gold standards of taildragger behavior in the sim though. I understand that's somewhat proprietary technology, but when even some freeware models behave more realistically in this regard... well, it's frustrating is all.

But I agree with everything you've said: it IS a very nice plane, one of my favorites in fact, and I absolutely have no regrets about buying it. I encourage everyone who enjoys this kind of flying to buy it. I'd rather fly it as is than not at all!

[kdl]

FYI

MilViz 30% Off Sale

http://www.pcaviator.com.au/store/home.php?cat=915

Dieter

[bazzar]

Be careful not to confuse propwash effect with CoG effect with brakes on. If the contacts are slightly behind true CoG, even a fraction, and brakes are held, you can artificially create tail lift with judicious use of power. That is not propwash.

[cavaricooper]

FWIW-

The Beaver in its current iteration is good... but has potential to be GREAT. It it my hope that the FDE can be revisited and tuned specifically in re. the low airspeed regime and ground handling (tail) behavior. That and attention to the longitudinal axis trail in pitch/power application, would elevate this model to superlative standing.

The radio digit clipping I will fix (thanks again!).

Best- C

[henrystreet]

For what it might be worth, not just an "armchair" pilot here.

No specific aspersions intended. In fact, yours and Cavaricooper explanations have helped me understand bush flying a little better. My regime is typically MIL jets that are accompanied by whole manuals, dozens of pages, of performance data that is frequently ignored or even considered incidental to many simmers.

Again, thanks for the great explanation.

[Rudyjo]

I'm a little more impressed with this plane now.
I took all the cargo out of it and put 20 gallons in each tank.
With just a few degrees of flaps and the pedestal wheel full forward, I have no problem running the plane all the way down the runway on two wheels. Same on landing, as long as the speed is kept up it will stay on two wheels all the way down the runway.
Also much better handling on the ground, with a little speed, it will now turn almost within it's own length.
Getting the weight out of the plane has made a big difference.
I've only tried this with the Tundra model, will see how it works with the regular wheels.

[cavaricooper]

Thanks Rudy-

I will reinstall and check... deleted it after the first few updates, perhaps they tweaked the FDE since I last flew her...

Best- C

[stearmandriver]

The amount of speed required is the issue. Yes, with enough speed, the elevator becomes effective. The problem is just that 50kts shouldn't be required to get the tail up. This video illustrates a normal Beaver takeoff (or most other taildragger). Notice how aggressively the tail pops up, how soon in the roll, and at how slow of an airspeed (and with less than full down elevator deflection).
https://youtu.be/KHVfZx_MCoc

Don't mean to harp on this. She's still very fun to fly. Just want to be clear that the issue isn't a subjective one of weight and balance.

[cavaricooper]

Andrew-

Is this with the latest updates? If so, I shan’t bother reinstalling... I keep hoping that the FDE will evolve into something wonderful...

Best- C

[henrystreet]

It would be very easy to replicate the conditions in the video. 5NC2 RW20 wind from the south at 7. The unknowns, of course, are weight and balance of the aircraft.

EDIT: Another variable that has not been discussed is the realism settings in the simulator doing the testing. A video showing the behavior of the model accompanied by good documentation of weight/balance, simulator realism settings, environmental conditions, etc would likely go a long way to getting an FDE update, if the FDE deviates from the aircraft actual performance..

Has anyone tried this test with the JustFlight model out of curiosity? Again, using the same criteria and settings as discussed here.

Finally, I have no dog in this fight except to illustrate how quick the community is to criticize and how sloppy their "testing" can be. Real world experience is obviously very important in judging the accuracy of the FDE but are you assuming that the developer did not use real world pilots in their testing?

[Dimus]

Experienced STOL pilots even lift the tail by gently braking during the take off run. Just saying, not sure if it was done in this video.

What I can confirm is that the FDE was developed by a real world Beaver pilot with enormous experience, same like in the Otter. We all know how bad FSX is in ground dynamics, friction etc. Developing an FDE is always a big compromise and setting of priorities. If a possible shortcoming in this particular behavior is something that will keep one from enjoying all the rest that this model has to offer, of course it is up to them.

[Rudyjo]

The amount of speed required is the issue. Yes, with enough speed, the elevator becomes effective. The problem is just that 50kts shouldn't be required to get the tail up. This video illustrates a normal Beaver takeoff (or most other taildragger). Notice how aggressively the tail pops up, how soon in the roll, and at how slow of an airspeed (and with less than full down elevator deflection).
https://youtu.be/KHVfZx_MCoc

Don't mean to harp on this. She's still very fun to fly. Just want to be clear that the issue isn't a subjective one of weight and balance.

Thanks for the video, while I saw quite a difference with the weight reduced, it wasn't like the film.
I don't know anything about changing numbers in the fsx.cfg files, is it possible that there is a number in there that if changed would produce what I'm seeing now at 30kts instead of 50 kts ?
I had no idea that the real life Beaver was capable of taking off almost as quickly as a Cub, it shows just how right they got it when they designed it and why it was so popular in places like Alaska.

[vortex]

What I can confirm is that the FDE was developed by a real world Beaver pilot with enormous experience, same like in the Otter.

But surely if Milviz haven't modelled prop wash effects, it won't make any difference who helped develop it as it will never match one of the key features of the real thing?

[stearmandriver]

It would be very easy to replicate the conditions in the video. 5NC2 RW20 wind from the south at 7. The unknowns, of course, are weight and balance of the aircraft.

I would encourage you to test this out if you have the MV Beaver. Give yourself every advantage. Nice and light, medium headwind, CG as far forward as you can stuff it. If you can get the tail off the ground anywhere near that quickly and positively, with that small amount of forward yoke (you can see the small amount of elevator deflection in the video), I will have to assume there's something wrong with my install. For me, with the model loaded as stated, with full forward elevator deflection, the tail *grudgingly* starts to ease up around 50kts; a speed at which the aircraft would actually fly. This is simply not correct.


EDIT: Another variable that has not been discussed is the realism settings in the simulator doing the testing. A video showing the behavior of the model accompanied by good documentation of weight/balance, simulator realism settings, environmental conditions, etc would likely go a long way to getting an FDE update, if the FDE deviates from the aircraft actual performance..

There's truth to this. There are obviously limitations to any sim engine. I'm using maxed realism settings on everything, and I guess I just assume everyone else reporting this issue is as well, since they tend to be more experienced sim or RW pilots who would notice the issue in the first place.


Has anyone tried this test with the JustFlight model out of curiosity? Again, using the same criteria and settings as discussed here.

We're talking about the Beaver here. JustFlight did an Otter, right? I don't have the Otter from either dev so can't comment on that. I'll say that, comparing this FDE to the FDE of the best Beaver we had in the sim until MV came along, the Aerosoft Beaver X... The MV FDE is superior in a general sense, though the Aerosoft was still very very good... and the Aerosoft Beaver can pop her tail off the ground just as sprightly as any taildragger pilot would expect, unless she's loaded with a very aft CG.


Finally, I have no dog in this fight except to illustrate how quick the community is to criticize and how sloppy their "testing" can be. Real world experience is obviously very important in judging the accuracy of the FDE but are you assuming that the developer did not use real world pilots in their testing?

I only have a dog in it in the sense that I'd love to see this model live up to its potential. It's already very very good... it could be damn near perfect. My comments aren't geared to "fight", exactly; I'm aware people love to argue for its own sake on the internet, and sometimes they have a vendetta against a particular dev. None of that applies to me. I continue to respond just to rebut the other side of the coin: people who defend the dev because they assume any criticism must stem from user error or lack of knowledge/experience. I'm sure that's often true... but not always.

I'm not assuming the developer did not use RW pilots... but I'll admit, it's occurred to me to wonder just how much wheeled Beaver experience their guy has. If, for instance, he spent the majority of his time on skis or floats, it could affect things. In trading correspondence with MV, I have only heard from programmers who lose the thread of the conversation quickly when it turns to aerodynamic matters and operational reasons why it's not only possible but sometimes important to get the tail off the ground. They seem to have been told that 3 point takeoffs/landings are the norm and so normal takeoffs and wheel landing performance just aren't a priority for them. ::shrug::

I'll note again the statement from the (somewhat arrogant, I find) head of MV: he told me propwash is not modeled, and I was unreasonable to ask about it, because (direct quote): "we aren't doing accusim at this price point." Now, first of all, the MV Beaver with addon (which is required to equal the number of configurations that come with, say, the accusim Cub) is well into accusimmed price range... but secondly, it would seem to me to acknowledge they're aware of this and just don't care to address it. Which is, of course, their prerogative... but let's be honest about it!

[cavaricooper]

Well said, Andrew... I would echo your sentiments... it's good, and has potential to be GREAT.

I personally wish they'd get there because I'm hopelessly infatuated with this airframe and bush lore... This one has the looks, but...

Best- C

[fliger747]

I did the FDE programming and as a matter of fact have over 1000 takeoffs and landings in the Actual Beaver. My personal airplane, a Supercub, I can stand the tail up at a full stop, not so with the Beaver and in fact it is quite reluctant to lift the tail. The main landing gear, just as with the Otter, is placed quite a ways forward. With full power it is possible a ways into the takeoff run to get the tail up a little, which is important in protecting the tailwheel on rough fields and reduces the drag on a ski takeoff, but it's a ways. My belief is that the forward gear location is designed to resist nose over tendency on soft, rough and short bush strips where there may be a necessity for strong braking. Certainly uneven deep snow on skis the lane resists nosing up well, much better than say a 185.

Flight simulator flight dynamics programming is lacking in several areas. The elevator action is certainly one of the most egregious in that it does not directly model the airflow over the stab and elevator surfaces, but applies a rotational moment to the aircraft CG based on indicated airspeed and elevator displacement. Many taildraggers can be in a three point position scooting down the runway and application of up elevator will lift the mains off the runway. Think about this one a bit, in actuality the plane cannot increase it's lift unless the AOA is increased, which is impossible when the tail remains on the ground.

Life would be easier if the tail feathers were directly modeled as to the airflow from prop wash, flap extension and a myriad of other items that have effects on the plane with power and speed change. There are various workarounds, but one thing changes another and some compromise is necessary in an inexpensive desktop simulator. Overall I feel as an experienced Beaver pilot and some other 25,000 flight hours that it pretty closely replicates the experience of flying the DHC2.

[Rudyjo]

Stearmandriver and Cavaricooper:

I just finished reading one of the best flight simulator reviews I have come across regarding the Milviz Beaver, it's a very long review.
The author says just what you are both saying.....It is one of the better planes released for flight simulation with a few negatives, one being the very long time to get the tail wheel off the ground.
The easiest way to find this article would be to Google "Milviz Beaver", one of the first links is " Avroliner project, Review of the Milviz DC-2".
Besides the part about the Milviz Beaver, it also goes into the history of the DC-2, if you have an interest in the actual plane, it is very interesting.

EDIT... the post from fliger came in while I was writing this, I had not read it before posting this.

[cavaricooper]

Tom-

I am MOST gratified you posted here- THANK-YOU! I appreciate your experience and the work you have put in. As far as the FDE, I believe your statement and summary is succinct and accurate. I am fond of most of it except for the ground handling and the pitch power lateral stability where there seems to be a hard crossover point in re. the yaw axis. In descending and ascending turns, with power application and removal, there is a hard point in the yaw behavior/curve that shows up readily on the ball indicator.

I would plead you continue to press the case to obviate your next sentence... "Life would be easier if the tail feathers were directly modeled as to the airflow from prop wash, flap extension and a myriad of other items that have effects on the plane with power and speed change".

This is TOO GOOD a model to just let this go. Please, please plead with Colin and revisit this issue when possible. I WANT TO LOVE THIS SIMULATION, but with a fair bit of tail wheel time myself, I just cannot bring myself to do so in it's current iteration.

Best- Carl

[Daube]

Nice to read about the technical details involved in the Beaver, directly from the mouth (well, fingers...) of the FDE developer. It's also cool to read that the FDE dev has actually some real experience about the plane itself.

Concerning the tail-raising behavior, I believe A2A was able to get some kind of prop-wash modelled into their aircrafts. But since the simulator engine can't handle that, they are probably modelling it through the external Accusim module, then. Perhaps Milviz can implement some similar external module in future, which would allow them to model much more things the sim can't do ?

[vortex]

With full power it is possible a ways into the takeoff run to get the tail up a little, which is important in protecting the tailwheel on rough fields and reduces the drag on a ski takeoff, but it's a ways.

First, thanks for responding on the forum. I'm in no way questioning your experience on the Beaver, but based on your comment above I'm curious to know how you explain the performance of the real Beaver in the YouTube link above (https://youtu.be/KHVfZx_MCoc). Within just a few seconds of starting to roll, and with only a small amount of elevator deflection, the pilot's able to easily level the fuselage during the takeoff run. This does seem to be at odds with what you've said.

[stearmandriver]

Tom,

Thank you very much for chiming in. I can only echo what Carl has said; I REALLY hope that now that the Otter is out, you have the opportunity to revisit the Beaver.

I understand your points about the far forward position of the mains , and I can certainly see how that would cause her to resist tailing up a bit; but then, I also feel like the relatively long arm (at least with a forward cg) of the decent sized elevator would go a ways to making up for that. I know she's no super cub, and I certainly don't mean to come off as argumentative and apologize if I am... it's just that I can also see that her tail comes up a good bit better than the MV rendition, both on videos and when I watch a wheeled Beaver take off in reality. She also seems happy to make wheel landings, something the MV rendition struggles with.

I have no Beaver time, but a good bit of time in various other medium sized taildraggers (Howard DGA, gull wing Stinsons, Stearman etc), and this just doesn't "feel" right. It wouldn't be so glaring if the rest of the flight envelope DIDN'T "feel" so right, and so really is a testimony to the great work you've done with this model.

Personally, I would pay for a custom flight dynamics environment / upgrade that can overcome the limitations you mention (which I understand are very real), the way other developers have done. Of course that doesn't mean enough others would that it would be cost effective or time effective for MV to build it, but I'll join Carl in pleading - I'll even BEG - for any improvement.

Thanks again!

[cavaricooper]

If you are referring to the half digit showing in the standard radio stack, edit file 'radi_d.xml' in base Beaver 'panel/C310_XMLGauges'

Change 6.3 to 5.2 in these two lines:

<String>%((A:COM1 ACTIVE FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>

<String>%((A:COM1 STANDBY FREQUENCY, MHz))%!6.3f!</String>


WS

Based on Andrew'ss recommendation, I just reinstalled the latest installer and the FDE mod... the panel clipping issue is still uncorrected. Thanks for this tip! I'm off to fly her now...

C

[bbrz]

Concerning the tail-raising behavior, I believe A2A was able to get some kind of prop-wash modelled into their aircrafts. But since the simulator engine can't handle that, they are probably modelling it through the external Accusim module, then. Perhaps Milviz can implement some similar external module in future, which would allow them to model much more things the sim can't do ?
You definitely don't need accusim, 'external FDE' etc. to simulate propwash. It's a standard option in the airfile. I don't know why some designers don't use it. Of course you need a finely tuned basic FDE for this feature to work correctly.

[Naruto-kun]

This is TOO GOOD a model to just let this go. Please, please plead with Colin and revisit this issue when possible. I WANT TO LOVE THIS SIMULATION, but with a fair bit of tail wheel time myself, I just cannot bring myself to do so in it's current iteration.

Best- Carl

Just for those wondering why Milviz releases fast jets with completely external flight models that rival and actually exceed DCS's advanced flight model, but doesn't do the same for the "simpler" prop planes....

Our ADV dev works only on fast jets. Personal preference of his which we quite happily respect. I do have a personal dream of doing an external flight physics engine for our prop planes but the problem there is a that my talents have been honed on building the systems and avionics used in the fast jets to such an extent that KC can't spare me anywhere else that readily. One day....