FSX Tailhook Question/Problem

[TARPSBird]

In order for an aircraft to catch a wire on a FSX Acceleration carrier, does the Shift + Q "raise/lower tailhook" command have to see a physical tailhook in the plane's .mdl file or is the [Tailhook] entry in the aircraft.cfg file all it takes? Reason I'm asking, I downloaded A.F. Scrub's VE-7 Bluebird biplanes to land aboard the USS Langley (CV-1). A.F. did not provide a tailhook-equipped version so I figured no problem, I'll just add a tailhook section in the .cfg file. No such luck, I cannot get the VE-7 to catch a wire on Langley no matter what tailhook numbers I enter in the .cfg file. It won't trap on Yanco's USS Enterprise (CV-6) either. Any help is appreciated as always.

[DaveB]

Hello mate,

No, it doesn't. As long as the entry is in the aircraft.cfg, the model will catch the wire. It's a little disconcerting not being able to see the hook because you can never be sure if you've hit shift+q correctly but otherwise.. the model doesn't physically have to have a hook modelled, just the entry in the cfg;)

ATB
DaveB:)

[Milton Shupe]

If positioning is an issue, try using a nav light entry to help locate the proper spot.

Here is the SDK write-up on the tailhook and LSO.

[tailhook] If a tailhook entry is made, it will override the attachpt_tailhook_pivot and attachpt_tailhook_hook entries for the aircraft, if these attach points exist.


Property
Description
Examples


tailhook_length
Length of tailhook in feet.
FA-18 Hornet( tailhook_length = 4.5 )


tailhook_position
Tailhook pivot point relative to datum reference point (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#datumreferencepoint).
FA-18 Hornet( tailhook_position = -49.0, 0, -2.5 )


[launch_assistance] If a launch_assistance entry is made, it will override the attachpt_Launch_Bar_Pivot and attachpt_Launch_Bar_Lug entries for the aircraft, if these attach points exist.


Property
Description
Examples


launch_bar_pivot
Launch bar pivot point relative to datum reference point (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#datumreferencepoint).
launch_bar_pivot = 5.0, 0.0, -1.0


launch_bar_lug
Launch bar lug point relative to datum reference point (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#datumreferencepoint).
launch_bar_lug = 5.0, 0.0, -4.5

[TARPSBird]

Thank you DaveB and Milton, I shall keep trying. :banghead:
One more question: What effect does changing the "cable_force_adjust =" value in the [Tailhook] section have on an aircraft's landing on deck? Most .cfg files have the value of 1.0 but I've also seen it as high as 1.9. I set it at 2.0 for the VE-7 thinking it would tighten the cable and bring the plane to a halt but the plane just continues down the deck.

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you DaveB and Milton, I shall keep trying. :banghead:
One more question: What effect does changing the "cable_force_adjust =" value in the [Tailhook] section have on an aircraft's landing on deck? Most .cfg files have the value of 1.0 but I've also seen it as high as 1.9. I set it at 2.0 for the VE-7 thinking it would tighten the cable and bring the plane to a halt but the plane just continues down the deck.

Good question. I cannot find that statement/parameter in the FSX or P3D SDK at all.

The only two listed are the ones I posted above.

From my limited experience with this with the Tracker series, the position and length are critical to catch the wire.

So, you must determine the proper pivot point for the hook, and proper length so it can drop down at about 60-80 degrees to catch the wire. It needs to be lower than the main gear.

I would start with finding the proper pivot point using a nav light.
Then determine the vertical distance difference between that and the main gear hanging.

The tail hook needs to be of sufficient length to hang below that gear when the tail hook is at 60-80 degrees.

[TARPSBird]

Thanks again, Milton. :encouragement: When I checked the SDK I didn't even find the tailhook stuff you posted above. Maybe I just have the SDK for original FSX and not FSX Acceleration.

[Allen]

"cable_force_adjust =" is from CFS2. No detail was given in any CFS2 aircraft.cfg so I'll quote the old MS website https://web.archive.org/web/20050126144504/http://www.microsoft.com:80/Games/combatfs2/SDK_aircraft_parameters.asp

You can use the "adjust" term to increase or decrease the tension to which the cables are adjusted for this aircraft. The cable tension is automatically configured for this aircraft's mass and normal approach speeds, so this term is usually correct at the default value of 1.0.

[Milton Shupe]

"cable_force_adjust =" is from CFS2. No detail was given in any CFS2 aircraft.cfg so I'll quote the old MS website https://web.archive.org/web/20050126144504/http://www.microsoft.com:80/Games/combatfs2/SDK_aircraft_parameters.asp

You can use the "adjust" term to increase or decrease the tension to which the cables are adjusted for this aircraft. The cable tension is automatically configured for this aircraft's mass and normal approach speeds, so this term is usually correct at the default value of 1.0.

Thanks Allen; mystery solved :-)


Thanks again, Milton. :encouragement: When I checked the SDK I didn't even find the tailhook stuff you posted above. Maybe I just have the SDK for original FSX and not FSX Acceleration.

Per my FSXA SDK, that was an addition for Acceleration.

[Cees Donker]

Jerry, which one did you download? I'll have a look. Can't make any promises, but I'll try.

:wavey:

Cees

Edit: Had a few trials with adapted tailhook settings: no luck!

[PhantomTweak]

You can use the "adjust" term to increase or decrease the tension to which the cables are adjusted for this aircraft. The cable tension is automatically configured for this aircraft's mass and normal approach speeds, so this term is usually correct at the default value of 1.0.
It has been found on the FSX BA F/A-18C that needs to be 1.62 to 1.65, depending on you normal landing weight. Much less, and the bird will go off the end of the deck :D
And, like a cat, I have an aversion to getting dunked that way :biggrin-new:


So, you must determine the proper pivot point for the hook, and proper length so it can drop down at about 60-80 degrees to catch the wire. It needs to be lower than the main gear.

I would start with finding the proper pivot point using a nav light.
Then determine the vertical distance difference between that and the main gear hanging.

The tail hook needs to be of sufficient length to hang below that gear when the tail hook is at 60-80 degrees.
A small note on the positioning and length, if I may. Not only should the tailhook extend below the gear when extended (both the gear and the hook), and NO weight on the gear, but it's horizontal position is critical to how the plane stops. If it's too far ahead of the actual rear of the fuselage, the plane will pull to the side, and possibly tip over, even if perfectly on the center of the wires, and traveling in exactly the right direction, when trapping. The FSX BA Hornet I mentioned has the horizontal position at -79, which actually well aft the rearmost point of the plane, visually. The trick is put it far enough aft to prevent the plane pulling to the side, but not so far that it won't pull tot he side or tip over when not landing with proper alignment, IE: Off centerline. The landing area's centerline, and direction, not the overall boat's, btw.
A way to start setting the position and length of the hook, I've found, is to use the Nav light method for a starting point. Adjust it so it shows at the aftermost point of the fuselage, and slightly below. To set the length, I've found, is to look at the main gear contact points, the 3rd positioning number, which is actually the 4th number after the equals sign ( = ).
Like this: point.2=1, -36.760, 12.000, -7.100 The RED number. Now, make where you place the hook's vertical position just below the visual bottom of the fuselage, thus: tailhook_position = -79.0, 0, 1.5 ,and the tailhook_length = 6.34, to complete the same length as the gear. Notice, in this example, it's longer than the gear, as Mr. Shupe mentioned. Not much, but longer. It's basic trig, if you'e any good at that, although some experimentation is required. Too long, and the hook will grab the wire well before the gear touches the deck, causing an "in-flight arrestment" to occur, which will invariably trash the gear. Too short, and it will never catch a wire.
It should be just long enough to grab a wire, just as the mains touch the deck, with the plane at the proper AOA. Bear in mind, that the AOA will be slightly lower when the boat is moving, and/or there is wind-over-the-deck. Normal WOD for the Hornet is 35 kts. The boat creates relative wind when moving at 25 kts, the default speed for most carriers in FSXA, including add-ons, so one should add 10kts of wind to make 35 Kts WOD.
If you watch slow-mo vids of planes trapping aboard, you will see the hook hit just before the mains, and drag along the deck a little before picking up a wire. Thus, slightly longer hook than mains.

I'm sorry, this is a subject I am very fond of, so I tend to ramble on a bit...
Pat☺

[vmag17]

TARPSBird

I also tried to get the tail hook working on this model - but encountered a problem I have not seen before.

The virtual tail hook does not deploy.

After adding a Tail Hook entry to the Aircraft.cfg and then loading the "ShowMarkers" program one can see
the "TailhookEnd" point displayed in game but Shift-Q (lowering/raising the tail hook) causes NO change in
the "TailhookEnd" position. (Nor do different key commands for the tail hook action have any effect).

I experimented with a few other non tail hooked models (such as the A2A P-47) but they all worked as one would expect.

Hopefully someone out there can shed some light on this.

[TARPSBird]

vmag17,
Thank you for your comment, that confirms my suspicion that maybe nothing was happening when I hit the Shift + Q command to lower the hook. Since there's no hook modeled on the plane I had no way of knowing for sure. I'm giving up on the VE-7 for now, when it stops being fun it's time to move on to another project.

[TARPSBird]

Jerry, which one did you download? I'll have a look. Can't make any promises, but I'll try.
Cees
Edit: Had a few trials with adapted tailhook settings: no luck!

Cees, I have the FSX-native version, "fsxnative_ve-7fsfighter_trainer.zip" at Flightsim.
See vmag17's post, he used the ShowMarkers program and there was no hook point position shown. That would explain it, I guess.

[mal998]

I did a bit of experimenting and I could not get the hook to deploy. Is it possible that the tailhook needs to be activated during the model's build?

[TARPSBird]

I did a bit of experimenting and I could not get the hook to deploy. Is it possible that the tailhook needs to be activated during the model's build?
I'm wondering about that myself... vmag17 used the ShowMarkers program which shows the various items attached to the aircraft, he saw the tailhook pivot point (so did I when I loaded that little program) but no hook end point. Very strange.

[vmag17]

TARPSBird

The problem is in the Aircraft.cfg entry - [hydraulic_system] - where the "normal_pressure" is set to "0.0".

Hydraulic pressure is required for raising or lowering the Tail Hook on all AC.

Just modify the entry to - for example "normal_pressure = 1050.0" (units in PSI) and the Tail Hook should work.

[TARPSBird]

vmag17, that did the trick! Changed the hydraulic pressure entry and now I can catch a wire. Thanks for your help. :encouragement:

[DaveB]

Glad you got there fella:encouragement:

ATB
DaveB:)

[TARPSBird]

Glad you got there fella:encouragement:

ATB
DaveB:)
So am I, Dave. I can usually resolve FS weirdness on my own and it aggravates me when I can't figure out what's happening. Thanks again to you and everybody else who posted. Always good to get "a little help from your friends". :adoration: