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YoYo
May 18th, 2017, 10:36
For sure, its a Alpha but many poor opinions on Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/389280/Flight_Sim_World/#app_reviews_hash
http://store.steampowered.com/app/389280/Flight_Sim_World/

(till now ;) ).

I haven't it... yet or not yet, I'll wait.

Dangerous Beans
May 18th, 2017, 10:54
I'm uploading a video to YouTube of my first flight ATM, I'l link it here when its done.

I don't know whats up with some of the reported frame rates, as you'll see I was getting a fairly steady 30 over central London with everything maxed.

Its very obviously a tweaked FSX, file structure and everything is identical.
It has a very noticeable ring around your view where the autogen ends although that may be tweakable in the FSW.cfg which looks the same as the FSX.cfg.
At least it doesn't have the awful atmospherics that Flight School had.

Dangerous Beans
May 18th, 2017, 12:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aOY9bjPwE&t=10s

Here you go, Enjoy.

b52bob
May 18th, 2017, 13:54
I am saddened by people who think this is a finished product and then trash it. Does anyone remember fsx when it first came out?
this is a chance for the community to support a new 64 bit sim and provide feedback to what we want to see. This is the first stage of development and I will support it. At the asking price, it's cheap. Just ask yourself what addons can you get for fsx/P3D for $24.95.

will purchase tonight and will not be asking for a refund. Just my 50 cents worth.

Bob

Daube
May 18th, 2017, 13:56
Thanks a lot for that video, I just started watching it.
My guess is the new graphic engine (well, I mean "the new DirectX requirements") implies some changes in our typical graphic card driver profiles.
I mean, surely FSW requires different AA, AF, behavior flags, etc... than the old FSX (or even P3D, who knows?...).

Daube
May 18th, 2017, 14:03
The video was interesting. I noticed two things in particular about the autogen:
- Toward the end, when landing, it seems the autogen display distance is reducing alongside with the altitude. Is that normal ?
- When looking closely to the autogen in general, it seems there is some sort of ambiant occlusion cast on it... like the buildings are darker next to the ground, and nearby tress make them darker as well. It didn't look like the simple autogen cast shadow like in P3D. It really looks like ambiant occlusion. What do you think ?

Dino Cattaneo
May 18th, 2017, 14:39
Not a finished product by any means, and should not be formally "reviewed" as such.
Frankly I am not impressed by "how much" DTG has done so far (meaning that I hoped they had completed more features), but I AM impressed by the quality of the work - all of the aircrafts I tested are really good and the performance on my system is pretty good too.
Definitely a good and promising start IMHO.

Bradburger
May 18th, 2017, 14:49
And for those who haven't tried it yet or are thinking about trying it :


https://youtu.be/fXdaocuvniY

Courtesy of Novawing24.

Cheers

Paul

Cees Donker
May 18th, 2017, 15:03
Not a finished product by any means, and should not be formally "reviewed" as such.
Frankly I am not impressed by "how much" DTG has done so far (meaning that I hoped they had completed more features), but I AM impressed by the quality of the work - all of the aircrafts I tested are really good and the performance on my system is pretty good too.
Definitely a good and promising start IMHO.

Says it all. I like it. A good start.

Cees

Roger
May 18th, 2017, 15:21
The Fsw.cfg can be found here: "C:\Users\Your Name\AppData\Roaming\Dovetail Games" (Win 7) and I have already upped the lod from 3.5 to 5.5 which seems to improve the draw distance.
Daylight flying does render a too bright landscape so I set my time to one hour before dusk. The rain effect on the cockpit screens is a triumph and my frame rates are acceptible at an average 30. There is a little tearing, even in full screen when panning around in spot view so I need to find a way to lock frame rates to rectify Vsync issues, maybe there will be an Nvidia Inspector page for FsW?
I also hope they will instigate a true Spot view and although one is shown it is really another locked spot. Scenery-wise I need to be able to add my favorite ORBX airports as the big let down are all those stock FsX runways and buildings.

Overall as a beta it shows great possibilities and as I got if for free I am not that disappointed.

Mach3DS
May 18th, 2017, 15:25
Those are brutal reviews. If it survives to an actual release I'll be surprised.

Here's one that really caught the emotion this guy was feeling:

"What The Developers Say: “The current flight sim space is a fountain of experience and expertise, and Early Access is our way of drawing upon that knowledge to make Flight Sim World the best it can be."

What They Are Actually Doing: Locking out all prior content. None of your most beloved FSX-SE content can be used to jumpstart your "best it can be" FSW experience. FSUIPC doesn't work. FSX planes have no place to show up in the menu (but FSW planes DO show up in the menu in FSX-SE - though the model is invisible).

Dovetail is throwing out every scrap of content you've ever purchased or downloaded for FSX and FSX-SE over the years, and are blindly hoping that you'll patiently wait to spend $6000 on DLC, the same as RailSimulator, from the vendors they have lined up."


I must admit, I was secretly thinking despite all my rants that this would be the one...just not sure I can do it all again with all the tweaking and configuring etc.

Roger
May 18th, 2017, 15:34
Well Rick, I can see that your not impressed but let's give it time and in a few months we can then decide whether it will stay on our hard drives.

Mach3DS
May 18th, 2017, 16:17
Look, for all my nonsense, I do have to give DTG credit for ABSOLUTELY stating clearly in no uncertain terms, that this is a beta. I felt they were very forthcoming and transparent regarding that detail.

patful
May 18th, 2017, 16:36
Remind me to never get in a plane with this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnjsQIou-3o
Almost have to wonder if the competition made that video! :beguiled:

Roger
May 18th, 2017, 16:37
Something I also notice is that under load, my pc runs much cooler than FsX.

Cirrus N210MS
May 18th, 2017, 17:47
i think its pretty good i like it though it needs some more work still :untroubled:

Javis
May 18th, 2017, 22:26
The video was interesting. I noticed two things in particular about the autogen:
- Toward the end, when landing, it seems the autogen display distance is reducing alongside with the altitude. Is that normal ?
- When looking closely to the autogen in general, it seems there is some sort of ambiant occlusion cast on it... like the buildings are darker next to the ground, and nearby tress make them darker as well. It didn't look like the simple autogen cast shadow like in P3D. It really looks like ambiant occlusion. What do you think ?

Yes, that's true, Daube, and most probabely the reason why the scenery looks a bit odd atm. You can see ambient occlusion very well when flying low over a big city, just above a layer of fog or haze ( i was too surprised and focussed on this phenomenon to take a screenshot... ;-) Every color is washed away, all that remains are shades of white clearly displaying ambient occlusion. Good chance this is going to look quite wonderful once the devs have put some more work into it. I'll try a screenshot next time.

Daube
May 18th, 2017, 23:21
For information, on the french forum somebody already managed to import some FSX scenery into FSW, simply by using scenery config editor.
The scenery is a photoreal region with mesh and autogen.
EDIt: ah, he also imported a plane from FSX, although the gauges couldn't work because they were made for P3D, or something like that. But the plane and the cockpit were showing well :)
EDIT2: I didn't see the topic by Cirrus, sorry, he was faster :D

spatialpro
May 19th, 2017, 00:29
I was getting a fairly steady 30 over central London with everything maxed

Same here! I took a flight downtown from RAF Northolt and got 25-33 FPS, mostly hovering around 30 FPS. No fuss, no drama, just LOADS of autogen with good, steady frame rates.

This is a great start IMO! :encouragement:

Happy and excited for the future...

Daube
May 19th, 2017, 00:34
I'm just thinking about the current "limited" content, which might explain the relatively good FPS.
For example, is there any AI traffic at the moment ?
Approaching London airport(s) when empty or full of AI planes makes a huge difference in FSX and P3D.

spatialpro
May 19th, 2017, 00:44
I'm just thinking about the current "limited" content, which might explain the relatively good FPS.
For example, is there any AI traffic at the moment ?
Approaching London airport(s) when empty or full of AI planes makes a huge difference in FSX and P3D.

That is a fair point! I did have AI traffic, but few and far between (limited to GA it seemed to me).

Naruto-kun
May 19th, 2017, 00:52
FSX planes can work in it but you have to add some extra things to the fltsim entries in the aircraft cfg.

Cees Donker
May 19th, 2017, 04:42
My Saitek panels don't work with this sim. The yoke does, and the rudder pedals, and the trimwheel, but not the switching panel, the radio panel or the instrument panels.

Cees

Cirrus N210MS
May 19th, 2017, 05:42
FSX planes can work in it but you have to add some extra things to the fltsim entries in the aircraft cfg.


got it working

griphos
May 19th, 2017, 06:01
It's that silly ring where autogen turns into blurry vague suggestions of landscape that kills it for me. That's about as far from what one really sees when flying as you can get.

It was free for me, and I downloaded it on my fast internet connection at work yesterday, so I'll try it out today. But if they don't fix that silly ring, I'll have no interest in keeping it.

Daube
May 19th, 2017, 06:04
Have you tried checking the CFG of the sim to search for any interesting parameter to modify ? I'm thinking the the LOD_RADIUS for example, or anything containing "autogen" in it ?

griphos
May 19th, 2017, 09:21
I have not. TBH, I'm pretty tired of all the .cfg tweaking involved in the FSX/P3D engine. Also, if it's like P3D, changing the LOD setting from the default 4.5 doesn't actually make any difference in that ring of autogen disappearance

I'll give it a try though.

Roger
May 19th, 2017, 11:04
It would seem that the lod tweak isn't active as no real change takes place when altered. Also the visibility slider seems non-functional.

Naismith
May 19th, 2017, 11:10
My mind drifts back to when MS let FSX out it's cage during August 2006 prior to the full release. It suffered some horrible graphical glitches if you recall.

manfredc3
May 22nd, 2017, 08:27
So far, the "washed away" look of the scenery is holding me off. I will try the suggestion of setting the time closer to the end of the day.

And I will certainly have to give the mod for Manfred Jahn and Jan Vissers C-47 a go, as that is one of my most favorite aircraft.

Mach3DS
May 22nd, 2017, 09:11
Can I ask a question? So, how does AIMEE's statement that they've gone "under the hood" to ensure that old products won't be compatible, play into this, if at all? Is the the thinking/feeling that we'll be able to keep this working as is? Or is the feeling that, now that DTG knows many products are working without any form of validation, will they squash that functionality in a future iteration? Or am I completely off my rocker?which has been known to happen!

IanP
May 22nd, 2017, 10:29
Rick, please. What you have written is nonsensical.

Aimee did not say that they had "gone under the hood to ensure old content won't be compatible". DTG have rewritten the sim with a 64-bit architecture, different render engine and many other "under the hood" changes to make it not crash with modern content, on modern PCs and to make it a viable sim platform for future development. Are you saying that car manufacturers should never fit a more efficient body shape, or a more modern engine, into a car because old spares will no longer fit it?

Changing from 32-bit to 64-bit breaks anything that directly addresses the old 32-bit architecture (dlls, including any C++ gauges), it breaks anything that uses GDI rendering (many 2d gauges, particularly "glass cockpit" screens, but its not to harm you, it's so that bigger, better, add-ons can be made and so that you don't get the OOM crashes that people have moaned about since FSX was pretty much released.

32-bits is 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
64-bits is 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000

Where's the data that you were addressing at bit 2F? Is it stil at 2F or is it now at F0 or maybe even outside the memory range which could even be accessed by the 32-bit code? The change from 32-bit to 64-bit is not minor, it's a major step change and yes, it really does break things unless you hobble your software by not allowing larger addresses than 32-bit for existing code like, say, "textures" for example.

Yes, you are completely off your rocker. You are looking for reasons to complain about a product that is actually completely irrelevant to your FSX add-ons. They're for Microsoft Flight Simulator X, not for Dovetail Games Flight Simulator World. Do you expect to be able to use them on X-Plane 11, or in Flight Unlimited III, as well? That's how you have to look at it. It's a different sim. Any compatibility we get is a bonus, if you want to be held back to 32-bit architecture, which went out of date 20 years ago, then you'll have to stick with FSX and not get a 64-bit simulator platform.

Ian P.
Edited to add missing word, so a sentence makes sense...

manfredc3
May 22nd, 2017, 10:43
Well rick,

First of all I do not recall Aimee stating anywhere that Dovetail went under the hood to "ensure" that FSX add-on's would be incompatible.

What I do think is that, with the work that Dovetail has done to the coding, it is not possible to confirm that any FSX add-on may or may not be working properly in FSW. Let alone benefit from the improvements Dovetail will/have incorporated in the new simulator.
Similar to some add-on's in FSX do or do not work with DirectX 10, and a lot of FS9 port-overs do FSX still have issues.

I am sure Dovetail does not want to spend their resources on compatibility issues with FSX add-on's, which would pretty much mean going backwards to the FSX experience, instead of moving forward to a sim which benefits from modern day technologies and hardware.

I am happy to see that Dovetail is willing to listen to the flight sim community for further development of the simulator, and am looking forward to seeing what they bring to the table in the next few months

Just my two cents.

Bradburger
May 22nd, 2017, 10:50
Some interesting views from three longtime simmers on FSW : -


https://youtu.be/VE68mksuO-M

Cheers

Paul

IanP
May 22nd, 2017, 12:31
That's a really good video - thanks for that link!

Ian P.

Mach3DS
May 22nd, 2017, 15:18
My question was legitimate, and not sarcastic. I don't appreciate your condescending reply, IanP. Everyone makes mistakes. It's obvious I did!

I went back to try and find what I had read originally and I was referring to this statement by AIMEE:

"That's the point. We haven't left it untouched. Where do you think 64 bit came from? https://www.avsim.com/uploads/emoticons/happy.png

We have done a lot of tinkering under the hood which prevents add-ons from being backwards compatible."

found here: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615911

Clearly, I misunderstood the "prevent" in her comment from being passive to active. But seeing as I don't speak 64bit, it was bound to happen.

Desert Rat
May 22nd, 2017, 16:29
Chill out dudes. It's a new FS, we have it, and several years ago it was a pipe dream, but now reality. What's not to like?

Every iteration of FS has initially been met with the same IIRC, it doesn't run on my computer, it stutters, it lags, and so on and so forth. We ALL grew to love them in the end, otherwise we would not still be here.

We all share the same passion, maybe not to the exact tangent, but close enough to be a community. And that was what always drew me to SOH.....

What happened? I'm not as active in simming as I was in my CFS2 and FS9 days, but I still love this place enough to check in every day, and you all know why, because you do it too.

We seem to have driven many devs off, why? It used to be great to stop in and see the latest from many designers, it was exciting. Where is Lionheart, Colin, etc. I know some have collegues that come, but even those devs who do come, do so less often. Possibly due to longer dev time hopefully as I would hate to think that it was due to the site itself, it's not what Ickie would have wanted. We need to make this a place that the devs (Dovetail included) want to feel comfortable visiting, it's a win, win situation after all.

A big thank you to all the guys that still stick around, SSW, AH, JF, and those that I forget (did I mention I'm not really actively simming, lol). I still get a buz out of seeing what is coming.

Here's to keeping SOH a beacon in the fog of multiple sims, like it always was. One of a kind (Netwings the exception, RIP).

Jamie

PS. Bought and paid for just out of support for the cause.

IanP
May 23rd, 2017, 01:28
Unfortunately Rick, you have written a number of posts where you have twisted what has been said in all sorts of convoluted ways and nor are you the only one here doing that. I was not being condescending, Everything I posted was either my clearly stated opinion, or fact which can be verified by other sources. If you choose to take it as condescending to correct you then that's your prerogative.

Yes, you did misread Aimee's statement. Can you please stop capitalising her name? I did actually paint the A2A Cub for her as AI-MEE at one point... I should really update that with the feedback she gave me! ;)

Ian P.

hairyspin
May 23rd, 2017, 10:57
Cough cough. Not twisted, rather "read too much into" online statements which could be interpreted more than one way. Especially with a good helping of DTG paranoia!

Naruto-kun
May 24th, 2017, 00:48
The read into part is due to both insider knowledge that devs have which made them voice their concerns as well as ambiguity after their concerns were voiced that has led to so much confusion. I can't say I like the twisting and false facts running around (and it is painful to me that I have had a part in this whole situation) but to set the record straight, there is no movement, as far as I know, on DTG's part to completely block getting these addons in. The move to x64 in and of itself breaks backwards compatibility with any addon that relies on C++ gauges/modules. The same will happen with P3D v4.

The concerns the devs had is more along these lines: Is DTG going to allow the freedom to sell a "unofficial" FSW addon on their own store without selling on DTG's channel or not? The barrier in this case is not including some special bit of code to allow FSW to load the addon but more a legal barrier. Going head to head with DTG in a court for refusing to sell an addon through their channel while selling it through another is not something any developer wants to experience. Only the top guns can afford the legal battle and even then the risk of losing to DTG is far higher than it is worth.

IanP
May 24th, 2017, 10:59
Just a few examples of how DTG "lock down" their sims and prevent external companies selling products...

https://www.justtrains.net/
http://steamsoundssupreme.com/
http://digitaltraction.co.uk/mainsite/ (That little Caledonian 812 looks rather nice!)
https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/
http://secure.simmarket.com/train-simulator-20122013-(en_528)-page-1.chtml (Click on a category...)

I can understand that developers are a bit tetchy about it, but DTG are very much aware that every product competing with them has open marketplaces. As I said above, though - if you sell at your own store, you're moving the liability for support and any legal/licensing issues from DTG to you. If you sell it as an "official" add-on, DTG become liable. No sensible company wants liability over things for which they have no support, which is why things happen like the DTG-distributed version of Armstrong Powerhouse's Class 90/DVT set for TS2016/2017 only having one livery set that DTG have a license for: Virgin Trains discovered and shall we say "strongly objected to" their liveries being in the pack. AP no longer sell Virgin liveried stock (but you can grab the liveries as freeware, of course... ;))

Ian P.