DOVE Tail FSW release May 2017

[Mach3DS]

https://youtu.be/nW1RxSdoJzA

[txnetcop]

Looking forward to seeing it- https://flightsimworld.com
Ted

[Mach3DS]

Physical Based Rendering!!! Visually going to be insane!!

[YoYo]

Saw it Today but I'll wait for the first opinions. Dovetail Flight School wasn't good product...

Carenado models?

[YoYo]

Few screenies:

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/389280/ss_9b890407f169da995a2e6f25e7283fc5e7ce94c5.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1493829292

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/389280/ss_704f8d79128f04b1c3369fc211886a2315337217.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1493829292

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/389280/ss_8f837785d5564dafcbd29bba3bb050b93d24fc38.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1493829292

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/389280/ss_8d1a5ef574eece2bf13ddaa83b1c913fb95bd7a3.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1493829292

Disc Space: 40 GB.


Flight Sim World is a flight simulation platform developed by Dovetail Games. Based on benchmark technology, FSW includes the whole world as well as several single and twin propeller aircraft to get you started.

The aircraft in Flight Sim World have been created using the latest modelling and rendering technologies resulting in stunning realism and detail. Every switch and gauge in the cockpits are clickable, while a range of animations really brings the experience to life.

Not only do the core aircraft look amazing, but they also react to their environment realistically. A combination of atmospheric effects and advanced mechanics result in a remarkably unique flight experience.

If creating content is your passion, we have included the Pro Mission Editor, which is a comprehensive tool that allows you to create your own missions.

Free Flight: The whole world is yours to explore in Free Flight mode!
Multiplayer (Alpha): Fly with your friends on Steam! Please note Multiplayer is still in its Alpha stage, so you may experience bugs.
Lessons & Missions: Learn the basics with our LAPL and PPL based lessons, and then test your skills with a series of missions.



Integration of Accu-Feel™ technology
Fleet of highly detailed GA aircraft
Easy to use flight planner
Realistic flight model
Integrated Orbx FTX Global textures
Lessons and missions to test your skills
Pilot profile to keep track of your flight hours
Pro Mission Editor

[TuFun]

Joy, joy, joy!!!! :jump:

[gman5250]

physical based rendering!!! Visually going to be insane!!

yeah baby!!!!!!!!!

[hairyspin]

Good! I hope it's been worth the wait and especially hope it's open to we fiddlers and home brewers to add to! :dizzy:

[roger-wilco-66]

I hope the pbr techniques will bring new material settings into play. We are in development of a C-7a Caribou here. I build the VC in a PBR workflow with Quixel. If these new materials could be rendered in the sim, this would be absolutly awesome.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pkd08avza0hz0x/slid-console-1.jpg?dl=1

[Portia911]

Saw it Today but I'll wait for the first opinions. Dovetail Flight School wasn't good product...

Carenado models?

A2A perhaps (integration of Accu-Feel being a clue?) - wasn't there talk of A2A doing a light twin next, a Seneca I think (?)

[Roger]

We already have a forum ready and waiting for the new sim. Presently it is called "DTG Flight School & Flight Simulator" but I have asked Dave to rename it to "DTG Flight Simulator World" as Flight School has been discontinued. Let's hope that FSW will be all we want it to be:engel016:

[Javis]

Most probabely the visual element will be awesome, the thing i am worried about though is the blatant missing of three sylables in both the videos and info's : ATC ...

(Much) better ATC and better feeling of flight compared to FSX/P3D that's what i'd be looking for mostly in a new flightsim. We already have great visuals in P3Dv3, haven't we.. ( i do like the rain on the windscreen and vibrating gauge needles )

[gman5250]

I hope the pbr techniques will bring new material settings into play. We are in development of a C-7a Caribou here. I build the VC in a PBR workflow with Quixel. If these new materials could be rendered in the sim, this would be absolutly awesome.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pkd08avza0hz0x/slid-console-1.jpg?dl=1


PBR...beautiful.

Add to this, particle effects, DX12 and VAS becoming VAST. Lots more room for crunching polys, and vertices. I notice right away the model mesh complexity in the video.
Oh yeah....Mental Ray rendering for those 64 bit modeling tools.

I'll say it again...Yeah Baby!!!!

[Mach3DS]

You can hear the rain beating against different materials in the cockpit....nice touch.

[Mach3DS]

You can hear the rain beating against different materials in the cockpit....nice touch. I want my F-100D in this!!! LOL.....

[Mach3DS]

I can almost assuredly say that if third-party content distribution, ESPECIALLY freeware...isn't kept involved per the current status quo, this thing will be DOA , no matter how.good the default stuff looks. The o my reason FS9 and by extension FSX and P3D have any traction is because your favorite developer is unbound by any specified distribution method or model. So far Flight and DTG Flight school have both bit the dust. This thing will too if my favorite add-ons don't have a chance of making it in, or for users to make free add-ons such as scenery etc. Can't imagine much longevity without it.

[Roger]

In the blurb, it says it will be Dx9. I hope this is wrong!

[txnetcop]

In the blurb, it says it will be Dx9. I hope this is wrong!

Roger what he actually said was they moved from DX9 to DX11. If you join Dovetail Games Live you will get a lot of information and you can join the alpha of FSW soon. FSW will be an early release on Steam and it will contain some bugs but the sim is OUTSTANDING.

[blanston12]

I can almost assuredly say that if third-party content distribution, ESPECIALLY freeware...isn't kept involved per the current status quo, this thing will be DOA , no matter how.good the default stuff looks. The o my reason FS9 and by extension FSX and P3D have any traction is because your favorite developer is unbound by any specified distribution method or model. So far Flight and DTG Flight school have both bit the dust. This thing will too if my favorite add-ons don't have a chance of making it in, or for users to make free add-ons such as scenery etc. Can't imagine much longevity without it.

Very true, that was probably the major reason that both MS Flight and DT Flight School failed.

Going forward we will soon have two 64 bit MS-FSX derivatives, DT FSW and P3D-V4, which has better support for third party developers and compatibility with older products will decide which one succeeds or fails. I don't think LM will make it any harder for new products to be developed than current versions, which is just as open as FSX, but how compatible old ones will be is the billion dollar question.

[Daube]

It's difficult to get any precise opinion at the moment, given the very small amount of information given in the video.
The rendering improvements, such as PBR, are a very good news. However, in these screenshots, what I see immediately is:
- the autogen draw distance is still ridiculously small
- the medium distance ground textures are blurry, which means the LOD_RADIUS is just as small as in FSX.

In the video they said they "tried" to get a better load balance between CPU and GPU... It doesn't sound extremely positive, though. I don't know what to expect, performance-wise. Will we still get blurries when flying too fast ? Will we still get micro-stuttes when using complex sceneries ? Will we still get very low FPS as soon as a complex airport appears on the screen ?

[TuFun]

Not to mention roads thru building and lakes/rivers in farmer fields. It's there in the video. :dizzy:

[TuFun]

It's difficult to get any precise opinion at the moment, given the very small amount of information given in the video.
The rendering improvements, such as PBR, are a very good news. However, in these screenshots, what I see immediately is:
- the autogen draw distance is still ridiculously small
- the medium distance ground textures are blurry, which means the LOD_RADIUS is just as small as in FSX.


That's one of the vantages I see in Xplane11, distant visuals are excellent, hope DT can get around this headache.

One item I like to see is self-reflection in the model. War Thunder has had this for two years.

[gman5250]

A couple of observations.

I noticed the gauge animation was using FSX SDK interface. The tools will be familiar, not a universe of new tech to learn...cold turkey.

For me the most important aspect of this simulation and P3Dv4 is 64bit. It allows video cards room to breathe and perform as they were designed. More importantly, this is the beginning of the development curve. Sure other simulators are great in 64 bit, but they are not looking 100 miles to the horizon either. LOD, autogen and weather rendering are compounded by altitude, so the challenge is to render at a distance.

32 bit has been like an inverted pyramid for a long, long time. Lots and lots stacked atop a limited technology. By expanding out to 64 bit, the sim can be re-built from the ground up to maximize hardware. It's a re-boot that brings a whole lot of opportunity to the table.

Physically Based Rendering.
This is perhaps the most attractive feature. The drawback...It is a sizable investment for the average Joe to move into PBR development. Exploring these aspects for third and fourth party developers will be limited, unfortunately.
For those who have the tools, being able to explore 3D Studio or Maya will be bring a dimension to the work that has been on hold for quite some time.

I've been working with PBR for other projects, like the home I am designing. Full interior detail with real world lighting, particle effects, atmospheric conditions and all the trick stuff we don't have in the sim.
Working with the materials is an entirely different experience than we have had in the past.

Mark posted those pictures of a Quixel piece he is working on. If you haven't been able to paint in 3D, real time in Photoshop, you don't know what you are missing. It is the only logical way to work with texture wear and bump maps. No guesswork, just some additional set up time on the front end.

Personally, I've devoted thousands of hours to learning the PBR work flow. I'm pretty excited to see it just around the corner.

IMO

[TuFun]

Milviz chimed in about SDK.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615551

[fsafranek]

I noticed in the video that Dano (aka Daniel Dunn) is working for DTG now. He was with us at Alphasim/Virtavia for several
years and did the work on bringing the FS9 products over as native FSX products as well as making a few new titles himself.

Good for him.
:ernaehrung004:

[SiR_RiPPER]

I hope that the new lighting system will allow for dynamic lights in the cockpit instead of only allowing emissive maps like FS, AFS and P3D. This way we'll get proper, adjustable floodlighting with little effort.

[ncooper]

This way we'll get proper, adjustable floodlighting with little effort.

Like in the PMDG 747?
In FSX.

[YoYo]

Does old addons (FSX/P3D) will work here?
Do You have any news about it?

btw.
Good to see that it will be 64bits!

[zswobbie1]

Nope, It has been said that it will not be back compatible with FSX, so, think of it as a brand new sim.
Also, as the release later this month is an 'early access' release, consider it a beta!

Payware developers will be able to sell their stuff as per normal, wherever they do, BUT it MUST also be sold on Steam.
As far as freeware goes ...??

Also, as P3D will eventually have a 64bit version, one wonders if there will be compatibility between P3D & FSW?

[TuFun]

Does old addons (FSX/P3D) will work here?
Do You have any news about it?

btw.
Good to see that it will be 64bits!

From Aimee (Dovetail)...

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615911

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615514

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615474








(https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615474)

[TuFun]

On the bright side...

From Aimee...

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615977

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509573-introducing-flight-sim-world/?do=findComment&comment=3615989

[Bjoern]

The announcement video is awful. Lots of marketing blah, little facts, way too much focus on visuals.

As long as there are no improvements to the general flight dynamics, AI and ATC and some other necessary bugfixes in the FSX code base, I won't switch. I want my sims smart(er), not pretty(er).

[TuFun]

Some thoughts over at FSDeveloper...

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flight-sim-world.439996/

[SiR_RiPPER]

Like in the PMDG 747?
In FSX.
PMDG and others make adjustable floods by using lightmapa at different intensities, which need to be done by the artist.

With proper lights we wouldn't have to do that extra work.

[heywooood]

The announcement video is awful. Lots of marketing blah, little facts, way too much focus on visuals.

As long as there are no improvements to the general flight dynamics, AI and ATC and some other necessary bugfixes in the FSX code base, I won't switch. I want my sims smart(er), not pretty(er).

exactly !

and after having bought their early Flight Training effort (abysmal) and allowing for considerable time to pass for them to address that debacle all I can say is : NEVER.

The vid is pretty -as intended...it has zero depth. It tells you nothing other than they made FSX 'prettier'...
I will go to Xplane before I buy this.

Actually the P3D in 64bit is probably going to be my next purchase in flight simming

[TuFun]

Concerning freeware thru Steam work functionality, that's interesting.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509612-is-dtg-fs-world-restricted-to-ga/?do=findComment&comment=3615928

[Mach3DS]

Agreed with Bjoern...

I'm not going to pass final judgment but right now P3D seems to be the better option...they will be supporting and active developing way past 10 years....its their core sim software. Who cares about UI more.than functionality of the sim? I have "that" feeling from reading the linked posts that they want to fully transform the way we the customers will own our products. We're not a bunch of adolescent buyers...many are professionals in their field and unlike Halo Rainbow six or what have you, flightsimmers spend $1000's on this single hobby...if the wants are not met the user base goes and had no problem abandoning ship for.what works. Pretty simple. MS flight and DTG flighschool are prime examples of trying to push something that wasn't 100% 3rd party supported and open on a community like this. EPIC FAIL.

[Mach3DS]

Also, sounds like IF you want your product included it has to go through steam. Period. Meaning no more cool little apps like JoinFS, anything by bjoern, any cool gaugrs like AI carriers...all this would.have to be on steam... what a head ache. What about repaints...Aime said they've gone under the hood to ensure NO backwards compatability...so if venture to guess that they will most definitely control HOW and when content is delivered...

I for one will not be repainting anything for it if I have to go through steam...no thanks. It's a headache I don't want to deal with.

So Likely goodbye freeware sceneries and fun little addins.

[YoYo]

What about hardware? This FSW will have simconnect? Does it work with GoFlight or Saitek panels?
Do You know something about it? I think it's important also.

[Mach3DS]

One more point...if it's sold through steam Who is not going to use that avenue right? It makes sense...problem is I think steam takes most of the profits?? Anyone know for sure?..no sane developer can live off that...so you likely will kill the development from many places...or they will choose not to support that platform as a result. Dint be surprised if this happens.

[gman5250]

Not sure why, but I always remain a tiny bit cautious with a product I am less familiar with. P3D I know like the back of my hand...FSX_ST feels familiar, but I disdain all of the marketing and bling layered on the user interface. I get enough of that in the world outside of my sim sanctuary.

Of course I will jump into the new Dovetail offering, and I will attempt to maintain an unbiased perspective when evaluating it against P3D4. I tend to operate on a plus/minus logic. The platform with more plus "tics" will prevail, but it will be a necessity to become fluent in the new platform as well. I'm thankful that first glimpses of the development work flow look familiar. Not sure I have any more brain space left to learn even more 4D architecture. lol

The question for me, is the one stated above. Will Dovetail commit to a longer term relationship with their market base who, by the way, tend to be more sophisticated than your average "gamer". The flight sim group tend to be older, more sophisticated in their expectations, and of course, they have a history of participating in the development curve.

We know where LM is heading, and more importantly which developers are already on board. If Dovetail marketing was paying attention, they would have learned from other attempts that have not made it out of the gate. I would anticipate that they will be inclined to dialogue with 3rd party developers, who have survived because they listen to their customer base.

Just a few additional thoughts.

[patful]

Minimum GPU is a GTX 970? My 6GB 1060 would likely force all my sliders to the left. I hope P3D v4 doesn't say the same.

[Mach3DS]

Gordon always good to read your level headed perspective. I get pretty fired up and then tame out over time! Haha. It's probably a mix of the Italian and Scottish in me and the fact that I'm still a young father....with 3 kiddies at home...so my patience goes to.them and my frustrations peak through when something near and near is being messed with on a fundamental.level! I support tour sentiment as well. I should have disclaimered my comments with I'm thinking out loud here as I try to sort though the issues like all of you. Lol.

[StormILM]

I think I will just wait for the new P3D and be done with it. I think that's where the market and tech are heading overall.

[blanston12]

Right now my money is also on P3d4, if as others have reported, old add on's are not going to be compatible at all then we are starting our collections again from scratch. I would never have switched to P3d in the first place if I could not use the older aircraft. I just hope when the new version comes out they drop some of there silly licensing conditions (that are never enforced).

[Stefano Zibell]

Not sure why, but I always remain a tiny bit cautious with a product I am less familiar with. P3D I know like the back of my hand...FSX_ST feels familiar, but I disdain all of the marketing and bling layered on the user interface. I get enough of that in the world outside of my sim sanctuary.

Of course I will jump into the new Dovetail offering, and I will attempt to maintain an unbiased perspective when evaluating it against P3D4. I tend to operate on a plus/minus logic. The platform with more plus "tics" will prevail, but it will be a necessity to become fluent in the new platform as well. I'm thankful that first glimpses of the development work flow look familiar. Not sure I have any more brain space left to learn even more 4D architecture. lol

The question for me, is the one stated above. Will Dovetail commit to a longer term relationship with their market base who, by the way, tend to be more sophisticated than your average "gamer". The flight sim group tend to be older, more sophisticated in their expectations, and of course, they have a history of participating in the development curve.

We know where LM is heading, and more importantly which developers are already on board. If Dovetail marketing was paying attention, they would have learned from other attempts that have not made it out of the gate. I would anticipate that they will be inclined to dialogue with 3rd party developers, who have survived because they listen to their customer base.

Just a few additional thoughts.

I'll have to disagree with the flight sim group having more sophisticated expectations. Unlike most of you (us?), I am an average gamer, as you put it, and I've seen FS developers get away with and actually be praised for highly unoptimized models/textures that bring even powerful systems to their knees and buggy system implementations that would otherwise bring forth the rage of "average gamers".

[Mach3DS]

I completely agree. Based on the popularity of sophisticated products like A2A and PMDG and VRS and now Milviz. If they aren't more sophisticated and demanding then these groups wouldn't be as successful as they have been and their products aren't cheap...so for a niche market I'd say the majority prefer it speaking with their wallets. All the scenery and terrain add-ons and weather add-ons wouldn't be here if there wasn't a more sophisticated demand for the realism they bring.

Just the fact that there are joysticks rudder pedals and all manner of peripherals available to purchase to play these Sims speaks to the higher level of sophistication present in the user base.

[Daube]

Also, sounds like IF you want your product included it has to go through steam. Period. Meaning no more cool little apps like JoinFS, anything by bjoern, any cool gaugrs like AI carriers...all this would.have to be on steam... what a head ache. What about repaints...Aime said they've gone under the hood to ensure NO backwards compatability...so if venture to guess that they will most definitely control HOW and when content is delivered...

I for one will not be repainting anything for it if I have to go through steam...no thanks. It's a headache I don't want to deal with.

So Likely goodbye freeware sceneries and fun little addins.

I understand the frustration, but if modders were able to make freeware mods for Steam games like Skyrim, including new textures, new models, new sceneries etc.... why would it be difficult/impossible for FS ?

[Mach3DS]

I dont think its impossible...just a matter of IF FSW will even allow it. Currently it sounds like there is NO SDK, disconnect or similar for.non payware devs. They have a built in editor.type.thing but that doesn't sound like it's going to offer true development for the freeware guy. It's all about DTG and what they are going to allow. Steam isn't the issue it's just another layer to deal with...which may scare away people who dev who simply don't want to deal with them. I certainly don't. But that's just me. P3Dv4+ will certainly bring much more innovation. And remember the P3D developers ARE the former ACES STUDIO guys from MS foe.the most part...so they are developing 100% for the Aviator, not the "gamer". Their business structure doesn't require nickel and diming the consumer for new content.

I'm going to wait and see what happens with the first few people who take the plunge, read reviews and see what happens. If it's just the Carenado show then I'm good. PBR may be implemented but three scenery looks the same asP3D... and my current setup looks better. I have A2A and RealAir which already have jiggly needless and physics... so unless there's something else, something big... I'll be very hesitant to jump ship. Seems like if open development for the little guy was to be a part of it, it would be broadcast as a selling point to the community which was built on 3rd party apps that keeps FSX relevant. Seeing as they have not and they're saying things instead like "I'm not sure, that's part of 3PP group..." those are RED flags and cues that the game is a foot.

[Mach3DS]

What's really sad: If they a screw this up, there's no one else that can come to the rescue since they own the rights. Low chance they'll ever give that up. I'm prepping for worst hoping for best!

[b52bob]

Well this also happened to the switch to FSX from FS9. Although many old aircraft would port to FSX, some needed work, an some didn't. Some of boys from Aces are part of the dev group so this may be what FSXI was supposed to be. Still, many of us have some serious $$$ tied up in FSX. There needs to be a way some of our investment can be returned.

[hairyspin]

The money you have tied up in FSX is not invested, it's spent: no more of an investment than money "invested" with a bookmaker. DTG have said there's no backwards compatibility with FSX, a now 10+ year old technology.

[zswobbie1]

Guys, you MUST get your heads around the fact that FSW is NOT an upgrade/update to FSX at all.
You MUST realise that it IS a completely new sim/game with no backward compatibility!!
So, as, I'm sure you have realised by now, one does not 'invest' in a sim/game. one spends money.

So far, we know nothing much at all, except that the release will be 'early access', as in beta!
So, like Microsoft, DTG are releasing something that they expect their (paid) users will troubleshoot for them... wait for forthcoming service packs/updates!

So, just like you paid for FS2002, FS2004 & FSX, & the different versions (not updates) of P3D, do not expect discounts.

BTW, having add-ons only available through DTG/Steam is a concern. The backbone of our hobby are the amazing freeware developers out there, & their future role in this case, seems to have become marginalized.

[wombat666]

Just passing and had to make a comment........:encouragement:
I might (just might) look at the 'early access' offering, I'm curious to see just how well they have implemented the '64 bit program'.
While this is good news for high end users it could be a repeat of the early days of FSX for many.
As for third party content, I'd point out that DTG seem to be very big on keeping 'additional content' under their control, the 'Train Sim' series appear to be an example of their business model.
However, best not to jump to negative conclusions before the finished product becomes available.
I won't be jumping in for at least a month so that is probably 'good timing', unintentional on my part I hasten to add.
:biggrin-new:

[alehead]

The problem with such announcements is that statements are made that do not clarify the worries and questions raised by the community. To wait and see how things turn out on release is tantamount to sticking one's head in the sand. We have the opportunity NOW to voice our concerns with the business model, the developer stance etc and possibly bring by a change in direction to the benefit of all.
I am fully aware and understanding of the fact that compatibility with fsx addons is not available. FSW may have the fsx codebase, but that does not automatically imply that fsx addons can or even should run in FSW at all. I do believe that the business model here may well stifle development to the extent that FSW might not survive against XP11 and P3D in a new release, especially if the latter is released as 64-bit. I, like many of the previous posters here, will be waiting on reviews from as many independent sources as possible before considering this. I wish DTG well for the final steps and hope that they are willing and able to listen to the concerns of our community, which really does have different needs and expectations from those of the more game-oriented pastimes' communities.


Andrew Entwistle

[Mach3DS]

I could care less that FSX addons don't port over or ever work at all in the New Sim. I fully realize it's a new sim. good to cut the umbilical early and swiftly to the past tech. and embrace all new. I'm ok with this. The point is that, DTG will not build everything into their core sim...just like FSX...so things like for example AI carriers....gauges, freeware scenery, Tackpack (if they allow it at all) any - solid "can't live without this" little tool or module, is now up in the air if anything like this will be allowed to be made and published as freeware, and even if yes, it must pass through Steam. Very lame. Realize it's their choice. I'm going to wait and see exactly what it is and what the reviews say...I stand down from my epic soap box for now! LOL...

[IanP]

I can reply to this thread as someone who has been to the DTG offices and spoken to the flight team - indeed I would count at least one of the members of that team as a friend. However, I'm not just going to defend them because, like everyone else, I still have unanswered questions and need to wait and see what comes out.

What I can say though is that they have very actively engaged with a large part of the FS world, from developers and add-on designers through to the ongoing communication you can see on forums. They are not operating "in a bubble" but I don't think that even they have all the answers to give yet. When they have, we'll get them. I do think that recent releases have meant that they have needed to step up their game from what they already achieved with Flight School, so it's probable that they are still making changes to the sim. We don't know whether they are and what they will be. yet. :)

Cheers,

Ian P

[Bjoern]

DTG's willingness to interact with the community must not be underestimated. They asked about everything that's wrong in FSX and got a tremendous amount of feedback. I'm fairly curious to see how much of that grocery list they've managed to cross off for FSW.

[griphos]

And many of us will be able to try the new sim at no risk/expense. If you bought and activated a copy of Flight School, you will get FSW for free.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=828380010672180&substory_index=0&id=583211945188989

[Bjoern]

Anybody interested in more official statements about FSW should dig through the posts from the DTG team in the FSW forum on Avsim.
https://www.avsim.com/forums/forum/757-the-dovetail-flight-sim-world/

From what I could gather, FSW is a long term project with a limited scope at the beginning to get people interested without producing an unfocused mess. Talk Flight School Plus. The Flight School elements are in to target beginners, the initial focus is on GA because they're easy to produce and easy to fly, there's active cooperation with third party developers to make the platform attractive for users, AccuSim stuff to attract more serious simmers, 64 bit, ORBX textures, weather effects and pixel-based rendering for the VFX harlots and there's an updated nav database for parts of the world.
Scenery rendering improvements are investigated, while airliners and ATC improvements are long term goals.

All things considered, and assuming that DTG earns enough to keep development going, FSW might become an alternative in a few years. I'll wait.

[ryanbatc]

Well this also happened to the switch to FSX from FS9. Although many old aircraft would port to FSX, some needed work, an some didn't. Some of boys from Aces are part of the dev group so this may be what FSXI was supposed to be. Still, many of us have some serious $$$ tied up in FSX. There needs to be a way some of our investment can be returned.

FSX is ANCIENT. I've spent thousands on addons too but if people truly want a new sim none of the old addons should work. Or, I'd be ok with the fact that none of my old addons work if the new sim is earth shattering.

I already use XP11 - it's amazing , but I didn't want to switch topics on you guys lol. I'm mostly XP nowadays anyway.

[DennyA]

Ah, you guys. If they somehow let y'all download a real P-51 Mustang, you'd complain that there's only plane choice and repaints are really hard. :)

I'm going to give it a chance.

I'm also not going to slam it if it's missing a ton of features from FSX at launch, because it takes time to build out something like that. If they're headed in the right direction and continuing development, I'll be excited to see a new entrant in the category.

I look at AeroFly FS 2. It's also in early access, but because it's only getting rolling and is admittedly missing a lot, many hardcore sim guys haven't given it a chance. Despite the fact that AFFS2 with VR goggles is by far the most amazing VFR experience ever (for the moment).

Given the number of hours a $50-60 sim promises to offer, even if it's in early development and will take a while to gestate, I'm aghast at the pushback against spending the equivalent of the cost of a mid-range dinner out for two people to get a whole new sim to explore and watch grow.

[ejoiner]

https://youtu.be/nW1RxSdoJzA\

If somebody finally renders the city of Atlanta decently accurately in a sim, that will be all I will fly. FSX and P3D are a joke in this regard and nobody has published the city of Atlanta as a payware or freeware package. Even Xplane 11, which has a better rendition, isnt that great. I know nobody cares, but being able to fly decent VFR around my home area would be great. (and yes I know that KATL has been done a few times by several groups over the years. my interest is the city.)

[rcbarend]

However, best not to jump to negative conclusions before the finished product becomes available.

Very true ...

By the way, the same applies to positive conclusions too ...

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
In my 25 years of flightsimming I have allways wondered why people get so exited about a new flightsimulator (either a completely new one, or the Microsoft fs* line of products) solely based on marketing statements, pictures and videos.
Don't judge it untill it's available, and only then comment on what you feel are the pro's and con's compared to existing sim's.

And if something is a pro or a con: even that might be personal.
Like lack-of backward compatibility is a showstopper for one, others don't care.

To me, the fuzz around DTG's FSW is the same again as e.g. the hype around the announcement of FSX (Original release) and MS-Flight.

[gman5250]

The money you have tied up in FSX is not invested, it's spent:

Excellent point.

I think I've got about as much invested in FSX and P3D eye candy as most others here. It was a lot that trickled out over time, but I always knew those indulgences were as transient as the few dozen pistons I've torched in the HD.

On the other hand, I've made a sizeable investment in hardware, software and time...lots of time, based solely on a calculated speculation that this technology will keep improving as we move forward. Old platforms will fade while new platforms take their place bringing improvements in performance and immersion. I'm in the camp that views these inevitable changes, and the adjustments required to re-direct focus, in a more favorable light.

I'm also in the camp that views these technological leaps forward as presenting a broad range of opportunities for those seeking to find a niche in the commercial aspects.

The break from 32 bit will allow so many extremely talented developers, artists, programmers, coders and CEOs to stretch their wings...so to speak. The benefit to the community will be immense, but will indeed come at a cost. I'll wait until I get some seat time before I attempt to make any in depth observations or comments along those lines.

I must admit that I am very pleased to see two 64 bit platforms emerging, apparently very close to one another.
I'm apparently going to be needing a couple of additional $$Ds to accommodate the additions. I checked...there's room under the hood.

[Bjoern]

I honestly dread the day the community gets a 64 bit sim. While FSX' VAS limitation surely is annoying at times, it at least forces you to thing what and what not you can afford in terms of memory consumption, be it as a user or a developer. Efficiency reigns supreme. Now with basically endless amount of RAM available, add-ons will be even more demanding to produce due to all the desite for millions of polygons and ultra high res textures and pixel-accurate cockpit displays. Not to mention any environmental stuff. This will reach a point where you will see people whining about low performance, stutters or else because all they ever did was adding so much junk to the sim that all the data effectively started clogging the memory buses. And hardware limitations won't go away that easily.



If somebody finally renders the city of Atlanta decently accurately in a sim, that will be all I will fly. FSX and P3D are a joke in this regard and nobody has published the city of Atlanta as a payware or freeware package. Even Xplane 11, which has a better rendition, isnt that great. I know nobody cares, but being able to fly decent VFR around my home area would be great. (and yes I know that KATL has been done a few times by several groups over the years. my interest is the city.)

Search for landmarks t the SketchUp Warehouse, convert and place them with ModelConverter and presto - instant improvement!

[YoYo]

The rain looks really nice:

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18216689_1380732265326401_6495666478489712725_o.jp g?oh=6d0e9a081c1a03379aaa3ac5bd59ef0d&oe=59826A85

[Naismith]

Much of the problem re "money Invested" lies in the longevity of FSX. It is a program that is almost 11 years old. Previously in the MSFS world we had a new sim every 2 years and we didn't have a huge build up of commercial titles. Also with FS9 and before it was largely a freeware\enthusiast supported market (some notable exceptions). The serious 3rd party commercial vendors really only came about with FSX. What I suspect will happen is that there will be an initial flurry of hard core simmers like us lot here rushing to get/buy the new sim. Then it will settle down largely because there is not the variety of available aircraft. It'll be a while before it starts to make inroads into things like Vatsim or Virtual airlines etc. But with faith on all sides I am positive that the new sim will be a success.
Perhaps it should be P3D and XP who are worried. Time will tell. +ve thoughts people. :applause:

[hairyspin]

A big reason for that longevity is MS stopped development after Acceleration and the code was 'frozen'. Developers have had years of an unchanging code base to work on and we still haven't (quite) seen all that FSX is capable of. FSW is projected to be a work in progress for some years to come, but developers await news of an SDK. Without that, pthbbttttt!

[Montie]

I am looking forward to this. I welcome the 64-bit application, this is what we need to move forward.

[DennyA]

I honestly dread the day the community gets a 64 bit sim. While FSX' VAS limitation surely is annoying at times, it at least forces you to thing what and what not you can afford in terms of memory consumption, be it as a user or a developer. Efficiency reigns supreme. Now with basically endless amount of RAM available, add-ons will be even more demanding to produce due to all the desite for millions of polygons and ultra high res textures and pixel-accurate cockpit displays. Not to mention any environmental stuff. This will reach a point where you will see people whining about low performance, stutters or else because all they ever did was adding so much junk to the sim that all the data effectively started clogging the memory buses. And hardware limitations won't go away that easily.
By this logic, we should still be playing on the Commodore 64, as you had seriously efficient programming when every byte counted!

An updated engine doesn't just bring access to more memory. It also brings DirectX 11/12 support, support for newer processor optimizations, and all kinds of other things.

I still see low performance and stutters on the creaky old FSX engine 10+ years after it was released, even though my computer and video card are magnitudes faster. It's time to move to a new, efficient codebase.

FSX and P3D won't stop working if DTFSW succeeds.

[ryapad]

FSW is projected to be a work in progress for some years to come, but developers await news of an SDK. Without that, pthbbttttt!

Let's they din't charge extra for it, like everything else! Like many people have said, It's a good idea to approach the new sim with a positive attitude, because nobody want to make a game that everybody whines about before they even release it. Only time will tell.

[TuFun]

Not looking good in respects to marketing wise for payware... statement from PMDG.

This statement...

I don't worry about much in the future of our hobby- except for two things:


1) Someone making a grab to control distribution channels and their associated profit margins.
2) Flagrant dishonesty/concealed motives.


They are willing to do this at the expense of the continued growth and product quality of the community by toppling well established developers and development organizations such as Aerosoft, Flight1, PMDG and the like.


As I said, I don't like money/power grabs, nor do I like dishonest brokers.


From where we sit today, it seems we are dealing with both and that is a very troubling thing indeed.




https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509763-07may17-the-sorts-of-behaviors-that-cause-me-concern/

[zswobbie1]

& THAT is the best and most important posting so far!!!
Take a step back, & think what DTG is actually doing......
Releasing a paid beta.... yes, they are giving it away to owners of Flight School, & locking developers into a distribution path! (amongst other stuff)

[stiz]

Take a step back, & think what DTG is actually doing...... Releasing a paid beta.... yes, they are giving it away to owners of Flight School, & locking developers into a distribution path! (amongst other stuff)

and then take a further step back and realise

1 - "paid betas" are nothing new, devs have been doing it for over 5-6yrs now

2 - No body knows anything about how DTG will handle 3rd party mods. All thats been said has been rumour and forum gossip.

3 - Steam is not the monster everyone thinks it is, its the industry standard for games now, deal with it, its not going anywhere.

4 - Anyone who thinks that MS made any flight sim for any other reason than pure profit is kidding themselves, so give DTG a bit of slack!

5 - DTG are investing in flight sims with the future in mind, which is GOOD , FSX is about 12 yrs old .. theres kids in secondary (high) school that weren't even born when it was released. Lockheed might well change their mind on P3d and make it military customers only.

Lets just all agree to wait and see and not spread forum gossip shall we??

[Daube]

and then take a further step back and realise

1 - "paid betas" are nothing new, devs have been doing it for over 5-6yrs now

More than that actually. Let's remember how "final" FSX was when it was first released... :D



2 - No body knows anything about how DTG will handle 3rd party mods. All thats been said has been rumour and forum gossip.

This, precisely. :ernaehrung004:



3 - Steam is not the monster everyone thinks it is, its the industry standard for games now, deal with it, its not going anywhere.

Indeed, it always makes me smile each time I hear people complaining about the fact that a game is on Steam. What's wrong with that ? Is the installation too easy perhaps ? Not enough problems ? ;)
No.
The only problem with Steam is the financial fee they require (30% if I understood correctly), which might impact the price of our software. But again, the vastly superior audience plays a big role here as well, so it's hard to imagine the real impact on the prices here.


Lets just all agree to wait and see and not spread forum gossip shall we??
Good advise. So far, all the info we have is "nothing at all". They just said that FSW is going to exist, and a bit more commercial bull fertilizer around it.
The info given by PMDG is approximatively the only side-information we got until now.

[stiz]

The only problem with Steam is the financial fee they require (30% if I understood correctly), which might impact the price of our software.

Depends how DTG handles it :) , for the other shops (flight1/simmarket/fspilotshop etc etc) it shouldn't make any difference as they charge about that to have your product listed anyway.

[Rick_Piper]

Exactly Stiz

I think DTG have gone quiet as they know that one wrong move over this storm in a Tea Cup and it could backfire.
Better say nothing than put their foot in it.

No idea Why Rob has posted so much as it's sort of started a pointless flame war on Avsim.

Where's the popcorn Smiley ??

Rick

[wombat666]

Depends how DTG handles it :) , for the other shops (flight1/simmarket/fspilotshop etc etc) it shouldn't make any difference as they charge about that to have your product listed anyway.

Good to see you again stitz!
And you've learned 'to spell'.
:biggrin-new:

[txnetcop]

Depends how DTG handles it :) , for the other shops (flight1/simmarket/fspilotshop etc etc) it shouldn't make any difference as they charge about that to have your product listed anyway.

Stiz you're all grown up youngin! Glad to hear from ya and you're right! Our negative speculations have almost always been wrong anyway!
Ted

[stiz]

Good to see you again stitz!
And you've learned 'to spell'.

i've never really gone away, just kept my fingers away from the keyboard :) .. and its just the one 't' ;) :)


Stiz you're all grown up youngin! Glad to hear from ya and you're right! Our negative speculations have almost always been wrong anyway!
Ted

i'm not THAT grown up, fingers are just not as quick ;)

[banjoman1960]

work´s great in p3dv3
thank´s,nice to have a favorite back:ernaehrung004:
cheers Ralf