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MaddogK
February 9th, 2009, 08:48
Where can I download the SimObject Container SDK for FS9 or FSX ? All my searching nets me advice on how to use the kit, but nowhere have I actually found the kit. Any help would be appreciated.

I need detailed info on section numbers in .air files pertaining to turbine output (RPM/torque/HP/fuel usage/spin up, down times), gear reduction, and prop thrust data/tables. I don't know if the appendix from Tom Goodrick's FDE manual is quite complete.

fliger747
February 9th, 2009, 09:41
The SDK should be on the FSX installation disk.....

T.

MaddogK
February 9th, 2009, 09:52
The SDK should be on the FSX installation disk.....

T.

I have fs9.

fliger747
February 9th, 2009, 12:02
Try the Smithsonian, they might have it at Silver Hill.....

Sorry: T.

Moparmike
February 9th, 2009, 13:53
For the FS9 SDK downloads...try here.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555857

MaddogK
February 10th, 2009, 08:03
For the FS9 SDK downloads...try here.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555857

Thanks, that was the first place I looked before creating this thread. I have however fixed my problem I needed the doc for but still want it for reference, but as Fliger basically said "fs9 is old" I won't waste anyone else's time by asking for FS9 materials.

I DO appreciate your help.

fliger747
February 10th, 2009, 19:47
There are a couple of great tools that you can grab elsewhere depending on what you need to do.

Cheers: T.

Milton Shupe
February 11th, 2009, 05:15
Thanks, that was the first place I looked before creating this thread. I have however fixed my problem I needed the doc for but still want it for reference, but as Fliger basically said "fs9 is old" I won't waste anyone else's time by asking for FS9 materials.

I DO appreciate your help.

It may be old but many of us are still there and developing for it and using it daily. It meets the requirements of millions still and runs on what we have or can afford. I have 4 projects in the works for FS9 and will happily bring them to those who have it. These projects will also be "adjusted" for users of FS2002 and for CFSII because I care of those simmers who are still using those sims and the work is easily done to make them available there.

I am sorry I didn't get to your question sooner.

Milton Shupe
February 11th, 2009, 05:19
Try the Smithsonian, they might have it at Silver Hill.....

Sorry: T.

:kilroy: I can't believe you said that ... at our ages. :173go1:

Oh yeah, and how old is that 747 you fly around in? Older than 2004? LOL

MaddogK
February 11th, 2009, 08:01
It may be old but many of us are still there and developing for it and using it daily. It meets the requirements of millions still and runs on what we have or can afford. I have 4 projects in the works for FS9 and will happily bring them to those who have it. These projects will also be "adjusted" for users of FS2002 and for CFSII because I care of those simmers who are still using those sims and the work is easily done to make them available there.

I am sorry I didn't get to your question sooner.

NP, thanks for the reply. It's getting harder to get any info for FS9 as many are going into payware and keep their info unless you pay them, but some of us build for our own pleasure. I have a few things I made that I never offered to anyone, but are based on info from you, Obio, and a few others over the years and I can't think of a way to thank you guys for your support, and your awesome creations. I simply will not buy FSX for a single file.

BTW, I simply adore your Beech 18.

Moparmike
February 11th, 2009, 08:38
Maddog,
If you're diggin for FS9 stuff are you sure you're looking for the SimObject Container SDK? If you're looking for airfile info for FS9, the one you're looking for is the Aircraft Container SDK. It wasn't called SimObject Container until FSX debuted since that's what planes are in FSX...just one type of SimObject.

I haven't dug around in that particular one lately and am booted in Linux at the moment so I don't have the unpacked docs handy. Not sure how detailed the air file info is in there but I'll suspect that Goodrick's manual probably has more detailed info than the MS docs.

You can still DL the all of the FS9 SDKs from that page (except the gmax installer). You do have to cut-n-paste the links into a new browser address bar though since they're not active links on that page.

Oh...and pay no attention to T's Smithsonian comment. I'm guessing he said that just because that's where they store his 747 manuals now too. :d

MaddogK
February 11th, 2009, 10:02
Maddog,
If you're diggin for FS9 stuff are you sure you're looking for the SimObject Container SDK? If you're looking for airfile info for FS9, the one you're looking for is the Aircraft Container SDK. It wasn't called SimObject Container until FSX debuted since that's what planes are in FSX...just one type of SimObject.

I haven't dug around in that particular one lately and am booted in Linux at the moment so I don't have the unpacked docs handy. Not sure how detailed the air file info is in there but I'll suspect that Goodrick's manual probably has more detailed info than the MS docs.

You can still DL the all of the FS9 SDKs from that page (except the gmax installer). You do have to cut-n-paste the links into a new browser address bar though since they're not active links on that page.

Oh...and pay no attention to T's Smithsonian comment. I'm guessing he said that just because that's where they store his 747 manuals now too. :d

<rant deleted>

I'm not sure, but I can't look at the file if I don't have the file. The aircraft container SDK for FS9 has info about the CFG files, nothing that I can see about the air files. The FSX SimObject Container file may have more info on the air files as it contains the 'flight model SDK' which
AIR files are used to provide flight dynamics data, in the form of coefficients and data tables that determine the flying qualities of an aircraft. A number of samples are provided that can be used as the basis for new flight models..
source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526948.aspx#SimObjectCreationKit

Tho' Goodricks docs have many of the things I'm looking for some sections are completely missing, or listed as 'unknown'. It simply doesn't make sense to me to have 2 identical a/c and have 1 with a 6 foot prop and the other to have an 18 foot prop (in the CFG) because the air files are so different, to achieve the same performance in the sim.

Milton Shupe
February 11th, 2009, 11:57
I have more info on this but must get back to work.

Aside from Tom's excellent paper, another was done by:

"Version 1.0.0 by Rabbijah Guder guder@dialup.nacamar.de 28th of March 1999, sponsored and encouraged by Arnie Lee.
Version 1.0.1 by Karin Ellermann. Fix of spell and syntax errors. 6th of April 1999

Acknowledgement: I want to thank (alphabeticall order)
Arnie Lee from Abacus who programmed FDE and never get tired of my inputs.
Jan Mosselmann for a very enlightening email on some of the entries.
William Roth who programmed AirEd and made it freely available."

I can make that available to you.

Also, you may not be aware that both AirEd and AAM provide basic references regarding fields in the air file.

AirEd requires you to right click on the data element, AAM displays it for you. See attached.

MaddogK
February 11th, 2009, 14:13
Again I thank you, MS. Took some digging but I found AAM (which I've never used) and will try to compare the aired descriptions with AAM's descriptions.

AAM link: http://www.fsdossier.info/aam_ini.htm

sparks
February 11th, 2009, 15:30
The FSX SimObject Container file may have more info on the air files as it contains the 'flight model SDK'...



You're on the right web page, but you need to keep going...

1) Click on the link you posted.

2) Find the 'Flight Models' link on the right side panel and click on it.

3) Read the 'Flight Models' page.

4) Find the 'Sample AIR Files' links on the 'Flight Models' page and study the ASM sample files.

This SDK is the definitive (and apparently final) word on air file formats. As far as FSX is concerned (and this goes for FS9 as well), there are no more 'unknowns'. If you don't find an air file section defined here, you don't need it - unless you're developing for an older FS version.

And by the way, if you've been using any of my tools like the FDWB or AirUpdate, you shouldn't find many surprises in this SDK.

MaddogK
February 11th, 2009, 16:24
Hmmmm, interesting indeed.

Thanks Sparks.
:ernae:

<edit> AAM fits the bill, all I needed was the section descriptions in the air file, and AAM not only gives the descriptions, but the valid ranges as well. In a few weeks maybe I can get me modded air file back to the same numbers as the original showed in airwrench.

Thanks all.

fliger747
February 11th, 2009, 17:08
MDk:

Glad you found those. For many numerical values the aired is an easy access. For dealing with the hex tables, AAM is quite a bit more convinent. The crux of any change is: "What's the result". Jerry has a "test panel" and there also exists Herve Sors "AFSD" which is also a good access into the various numerical quantities being outputted to the sim.

Milton: FS9, that was a "joke" as to the rate of change in the software world. We are looking to upgrade to the Boeing version 747.800.1 in 2010.......... For various reasons, I do think that as with CFS2, FS9 is a classic and will retain a strong following far into the future.

Cheers: T.

Milton Shupe
February 11th, 2009, 18:16
Tom,

Great to hear about the 747 upgrade. You deserve the best.

And I do hope FS9 is around for awhile ... and it will likely out last my computer that is actually older than FS9. LOL

Henry
February 12th, 2009, 06:52
We are looking to upgrade to the Boeing version 747.800.1 in 2010.......... For various reasons,
Cheers: T.
just spoke with your bosses
ya getting airbusses :173go1:
LOL
H

fliger747
February 12th, 2009, 11:43
There was a discussion a number of years ago about the freighter version of the 380, whch never materialized. Of course the big hitch these days is gett'n people to lend ya money.

I think the new Boeings will upgrade from an 8088 to perhaps a 486?

T.

MaddogK
February 13th, 2009, 15:29
I have more info on this but must get back to work.

Aside from Tom's excellent paper, another was done by:

"Version 1.0.0 by Rabbijah Guder guder@dialup.nacamar.de 28th of March 1999, sponsored and encouraged by Arnie Lee.
Version 1.0.1 by Karin Ellermann. Fix of spell and syntax errors. 6th of April 1999

Acknowledgement: I want to thank (alphabeticall order)
Arnie Lee from Abacus who programmed FDE and never get tired of my inputs.
Jan Mosselmann for a very enlightening email on some of the entries.
William Roth who programmed AirEd and made it freely available."

I can make that available to you.



Sure, could you please ?

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.

Milton Shupe
February 13th, 2009, 21:08
Check your email.

MaddogK
February 15th, 2009, 08:41
Check your email.

Thank you, air101 has been my 'bible' for a couple years already, but the other doc has quite a few hints to help me figure out why my turboprop engines output matches the jet engines they replace but the 'static thrust' has to be 10% of the jet FM to achieve the same take-off distance, but increases the turbine spool up times by aprox 700%.