Better sit down again

[b52bob]

Check out he newest FS news at AVSIM.

No new PC FS, MS going live and will charge for areas and new planes (downloadable like the IPhone). This info comes from some people in the know but as is everything, not confirmable.

Developers are up in arms if this is true.

So am I.

Bob

[SkippyBing]

Sounds like MS don't understand FS.

[DaveKDEN]

Check out he newest FS news at AVSIM.

No new PC FS, MS going live and will charge for areas and new planes (downloadable like the IPhone). This info comes from some people in the know but as is everything, not confirmable.

Developers are up in arms if this is true.

So am I.

Bob

If true, guess I'll stick with FSX until X-Plane surpasses it. Nice move MS! Typical cubical bean-counter mindset up in Redmond.

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

The Facts Emerge - The future of MS Flight Simulation
http://avsim.com/images/common/sep_bar.gif
Posted: Sunday, February 8, 2009 - 20:01
There has been a lot of speculation, rumor and simple guesses as to what Microsoft is going to do with the Flight Simulator “enterprise”. Through a number of sources, some of whom are former ACES members, we have been able to get to the bottom of where our hobby is heading, at least as far as Microsoft is concerned. Our sources will remain anonymous, for obvious reasons. Here are the hard, cold, and very disappointing facts:

FACT: Microsoft Flight Simulator for the PC is dead. There are no plans to continue the FS series in a form that we would recognize. The wholesale dispatch of the ACES team speaks volumes to this.

FACT: ESP is dead. Boeing, Raytheon and presumably Northrop Grumman (ESP’s first adopters) received notification that the ESP franchise is done and that, in effect, they are on their own. We have seen some discussion putting hope in the emergence of ESP as the next "engine" for flight simulator. That is not going to happen.

FACT: Some developers in our hobby approached Microsoft to purchase the MSFX code. Microsoft rebuffed that offer in total. We presume that this is because having the FSX code out there would “diffuse” their future intent and model for a flight simulator “replacement”.

What is Microsoft’s future intent as regards flight simulation? Simple really… Create a flight simulation system for Windows Live, and sell applications for it much like Apple does for their IPhone / Ipod family. Third party developers will have to submit their applications, as do Apple developers, for approval by MS and they in turn would earn a percentage from the sales of those applications. Vendors that we have talked to are extremely upset about this. It also brings back memories of the infamous Papa Tango attempts to hijack freeware.

Imagine for a moment a “live” simulator that has as its core a “Flight Unlimited” like virtual world. You can fly around a very small part of the world in the default system, but to add to your simulation world, you have to purchase the additional scenery from MS. You want more than a 172, a Baron, or a 737? Simple, purchase it via the Live system.

Imagine for a moment the availability of liveries that would be made available. Without approval by the airlines, you can imagine the lack of variety in the “live” modeled aircraft. Under the present arrangement, freeware is seen as free advertising for the United’s, American’s, Lufthansa’s and others of the world. Insert the dollar into the equation, and it is reasonable to expect that our current arrangement with carriers would evaporate. Would MS consider providing freeware via its live system? Don’t hold your breath – too many liability concerns, copyright infringement risks, product support and management issues to take on for free.

What about VATSIM, IVAO and the plethora of other peripheral attractions that we now benefit from? Imagine paying to connect to VATSIM for an hour or two of supervised flight. Spend some time thinking about the ramifications of this, and it only gets scarier.

We have a simple new reality to face up to; Microsoft has changed their business model as regards the flight simulation genre and we are seeing the first steps of that new model taking hold. We can assume that a “live” version will entail online subscription costs per month or year, and additional add-on’s will cost us.



Reading this business model one can further guess that they will pull FSX from the shelves in order that the live version is saleable ,
this is prognostication on my part but as my other supposition turns out to become the future it does not stretch credulity .C.J

[mike_cyul]

Well, if that's true, then I'm guessing FSX will have a long and healthy life!

Mike

[N2056]

Hey!

Just as predicted by someone (Chuck) a couple of weeks before Aces got canned, and what I have anticipated all along...so for me it's business as usual working on planes for FSX & FS9. There is also a possibility for X-Plane developement, but that is on the far horizon.

I think it's safe to say that I will not be developing for future MS sims :d

[Nick C]

Who are these "facts" coming from, that's what I'd like to know?

[Lionheart]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the heads up. Going to read it now.

On the Apple iPhone and iPod Touch, their extreme success was quite similar to Flight Simulator. Apple has all the SDK's for people to make their own Apps (applications or programs) for iPhones/iPods. Alot of the Apps are freeware, just like in FS9. Not all of them are payware. Being a iPod freak myself, I find myself on a Saturday night, browsing all the newest Apps, just like I did a few years ago looking for all the newest freeware planes.

Apps arent all about costs, and the ones that are actually payware are usually inexpensive. Apple programs are usually $1.00 to $5.00. XP9 for iPod/iPhone is like $10.00. Very inexpensive and all purchaseable through iTunes.


Now.. That said.. Maybe MS wishes to take a route like some of the hard core gaming routes have gone, such as Lucas Ltd. games, where you have to have an account and pay fees for certain things/time online/etc.. That is a huge industry and has extreme players in it and I am sure Lucas (and other game studios) do pretty good at it.

But... I think the FS market is mostly people that are retired and about 45 to 75, and will not be so quick to adapt to the kids way of gaming, pay as you play, etc, like the others.. Different market.

But, MS seems to think they can change the world and 'force' people to do their bidding, lol..

See what it did to their CEO! His eyebrows fell out!


:kilroy:


Bill

[Roger]

Is this kid's stuff or am I just too old to understand. Will the kids that I think they're aiming at want that?
I don't want that...just seems silly.

[bkeske]

I would have expected it to go the console direction, which I would have absolutely rejected. I really do not know what to make of this 'Live' direction...at all.

I use a Mac for work, and have never really embraced this way of integration. To me it 'dumbs down' the ability to manage software/files the way I want to, and because of that, almost always use 3rd party programs to manage these things (calander, contacts, itunes, iphoto, etc etc). Perhaps I'm 'old fashioned'; in being 'DOS based old fashioned'.

This type of direction was probably going to happen sooner or later, I just did not expect it this soon.

I guess we all better realize that PC based games/simulations are becoming more and more of a niche' desire. With an open mind, perhaps it will provide incredible developments....I'm just not likely to warm to it immediately regardless, if ever.

[Snuffy]

Long live FSX!

[N2056]

I'm gonna get a bag of popcorn & watch the fun over at allnodesbusy...there is a group over there that have been beating this to death for the last 2 weeks, and at one point someone even felt that MS was affecting national security!

Maybe another petition...:kilroy:

[Pepere]

I just tried to get onto AVSIM and could't - lots of people reading it I guess.

Bright side is MS is out of our Sim? :typing:

FSX has a long life to it yet as long as the payware and freeware guys and gals stick with us?

David :kilroy:

[Lionheart]

If a console can run it, why not!?

But pay as you go, that would pull me away.


And it would need to have the ability to add planes and scenery. Thats a must. And, it needs a keyboard and joystick capability...


I think consoles would be cheaper for us as a platform. No more graphics cards, special memories, Mobos, tripple quadrupple cores.. No more fans, liquid cooling, hyper stringing.. No more shopping all weekend for new drivers, experimenting to get it just right.. All gone.. Just fast frame rates!!!


Consoles are not too expensive! This would free up my computer! I would almost no longer need windows, except for Gmax, DXTBmp.. I can get a Mac version of Photoshop. :d



Bill

[SkippyBing]

Obviously this model has worked well for things like World of Warcraft, and various X-Box games, however I think MS have massively misunderstood the FS market. I really can't see the majority of FS users going for a totally pay-to-play environment, sure logging on to a virtual world would be cool at times but unless it's a combat sim where the AI isn't that challenging it doesn't really bring a lot to FS.
And Bill bare in mind the latest consoles probably couldn't run FSX at a decent frame rate, the reason they just work is the same reason Mac's just work (for a given value of work) it's a very limited/fixed hardware set so there's no writing games that are pushing the limits of the hardware to allow for future advances because there won't be any.
So yeah for me it's FSX until it bleeds, then see if X-Plane works for me (it doesn't yet but it's getting there) or stick with combat sims like Strike Fighters.

[fliger747]

Again:

You have a liscense for FSX, they have not sold it to you. In order to force move to a new system it is entirely possible that they may not continue to support authorizations for your installation-re-installation.

Currently a few talented peole at hone sitting behind a computer can produce a wonderful product, I guess this is the not the future of "Change you can believe in" , at least in FS.

T.

[piperarcherpilot]

IF true:

Ya know, you'd tend to think Microsoft would be run by intelligent people, being as big and successful as it is, but it seems this is far from the truth.

This isnt just something 'different' that we are all uncomfortable with, its that, and its something that makes absolutely no sense, from a hobby standpoint, nor from a business standpoint. No one (meaning very very few comparitively) is going to jump on the new Microsoft band waggon.

Maybe Microsoft is slowly running its ship aground. With these kinds of corporate plans, maybe they wont even make it through this economic slowdown...? Time for new companies to develop where they left off....? Microsoft certainly isnt making ANY friends with ANYONE right now...

Who cares about corporate Microsoft. I guess this shows their 'true colors'.

Like everyone's saying FSX DOES have tons of potential for many years to come. Its not really going to impact us much for a long time.

Lets make FSX all it can be and ignore the bad stuff. :applause:

[N2056]

Lets make FSX all it can be and ignore the bad stuff. :applause:

:amen:

[txnetcop]

sounds like a good plan to me...back to work
Ted

[Roger]

Again:

You have a liscense for FSX, they have not sold it to you. In order to force move to a new system it is entirely possible that they may not continue to support authorizations for your installation-re-installation.

T.

If that were the case I would fully endorse hacking an authorization. MS from being the sometimes frustrating partner, have just become the enemy.
MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

[SkippyBing]

MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

Phrases you never thought you'd hear!

[Nick C]

Sorry, but once again where have these FACTS come from? Are they on a Microsoft website some where? has an employee of Microsoft been interviewed? They may indeed be factual, but until I hear it from Microsoft's own mouth, I simply don't give a toss. There has been so many rumours and presumptions over the last couple of weeks, that my brain is starting to oooze hydraulic oil as my temper rises.

Can a new forum for all these threads be started, so those of us who want to get on with the business of enjoying FSX don't have to be interrupted all the time? :engel016:

[jimjones]

Enjoy FSX while you can. Future MS operating sysems may in themselves kill compatibility. Vista killed too many programs and hardware devices for me to trust MS to allow FSX to go beyond Windows 7. Hope I'm wrong.

[crashaz]

WTF?!? Really??

If this is true they better give me exactly what I want... combat.


Nice... if this is true... it kills what made FS/CFS unique. This is exactly the reason I don't build ships for IL2... I have to get someone's authorization.


Im done with it.

:a1451:

[Lionheart]

If that were the case I would fully endorse hacking an authorization. MS from being the sometimes frustrating partner, have just become the enemy.
MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

I agree.

[N2056]

Their loss, not mine :d

[Wiens]

This is an illustration of the beauty of capitalism and Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand". If there is a "demand" for a decent flight simulator or combat flight simulator then capable individuals or companies will "supply" it to the market.

Look at OBD Software and what they have done to rebuild CFS3 with OFF BHAH!

I'm looking forward to the next iteration of flight simulation developed by those passionate individuals who know how to write code (which is something I have no clue about)!

Kevin

[Odie]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the heads up. Going to read it now.

On the Apple iPhone and iPod Touch, their extreme success was quite similar to Flight Simulator. Apple has all the SDK's for people to make their own Apps (applications or programs) for iPhones/iPods. Alot of the Apps are freeware, just like in FS9. Not all of them are payware. Being a iPod freak myself, I find myself on a Saturday night, browsing all the newest Apps, just like I did a few years ago looking for all the newest freeware planes.

Apps arent all about costs, and the ones that are actually payware are usually inexpensive. Apple programs are usually $1.00 to $5.00. XP9 for iPod/iPhone is like $10.00. Very inexpensive and all purchaseable through iTunes.


Now.. That said.. Maybe MS wishes to take a route like some of the hard core gaming routes have gone, such as Lucas Ltd. games, where you have to have an account and pay fees for certain things/time online/etc.. That is a huge industry and has extreme players in it and I am sure Lucas (and other game studios) do pretty good at it.

But... I think the FS market is mostly people that are retired and about 45 to 75, and will not be so quick to adapt to the kids way of gaming, pay as you play, etc, like the others.. Different market.

But, MS seems to think they can change the world and 'force' people to do their bidding, lol..

See what it did to their CEO! His eyebrows fell out!


:kilroy:


Bill

If true Bill, just another example of us "old guys" being dropped from the target audience. It seems like everything these days is targeted to the 19-25 age group. Movies, books, television, seem to be moving on without us....or is it vice-versa??

Well, there's a lot of 3rd party talent out there producing really good stuff for FS9 and FSX that the existing franchise can be kept interesting for a good while to come.

Again, if true, it makes you wonder what data MS is looking at that tells them that this is the thing to do or are they assuming that the support that MSFS has will move to whatever platform MS decides is the way to go. Makes me scratch my head sometimes.......

[michael davies]

Well I'm well stocked with beer and pop corn to watch this one LOL, lotta milage in this, best show in town bar none.

Seriously, the only thing thats perhaps going to take current FS games away from y'alls is a new OS, if you can live with XP or Vista for the next five years then theres no sweat, actually hardware may drive a few wedges in by only working on upto date software ?, after five years then lifes perhaps going to get a bit sticky, but five years is a long way away, I stand more chance of getting killed or seriously maimed at work tomorrow than loosing sleep over this TBH.

Best

Michael

[MCDesigns]

If that were the case I would fully endorse hacking an authorization. MS from being the sometimes frustrating partner, have just become the enemy.
MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree also. I have tried to be a supporter of MS, but with this "proposed" new direction, I'm sorry, I will not support it and seeing how they are going about this with FS, might even stop supporting other products from them, meaning OS's, apps, etc. I LOVE my PC, I love PC gaming, but I get the distinct impression, MS doesn't want me to use PCs at all, if so, fine, I can go the mac route also like Bill if need be if it will get the point across to MS (loss of revenue).

I am a gamer, I have tried the online universe type games (WOW, Oblivion, Star Wars universe, second life, etc) and they are just not for me. I have 2 consoles and a few games for them, again, they are not for me. I love Half Life, but hate STEAM for getting games/updates. Best gaming experience I ever had was COOP play for Ghost Recon, what a blast!! I love online Multiplayer gaming, but the biggest problem is bratty kids that have no idea how to act and they ruin it for everyone.. If this is MS's target audience now, they can have it,

I REALLY enjoyed designing for SIMS2, guess I need to get back into it with SIMS3 coming out this month :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Boomer]

Im with Nick,

Until an official announcement is made all this is nothing more than speculation & conjecture. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
No point getting wound up over what (at this moment) amounts to gossip. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[Lionheart]

If true Bill, just another example of us "old guys" being dropped from the target audience. It seems like everything these days is targeted to the 19-25 age group. Movies, books, television, seem to be moving on without us....or is it vice-versa??

Well, there's a lot of 3rd party talent out there producing really good stuff for FS9 and FSX that the existing franchise can be kept interesting for a good while to come.

Again, if true, it makes you wonder what data MS is looking at that tells them that this is the thing to do or are they assuming that the support that MSFS has will move to whatever platform MS decides is the way to go. Makes me scratch my head sometimes.......



Time will tell. We have yet to see this actually happen..

EDIT: I worked in an Electronics department at a major store for a while and alot of the people that came in to buy new releases of COD and the rest were older guys, some retired. MS needs to realise this isnt all about kids.. Its older people as well, and..... 'the market is very very very smart'. We are not stupid....

With my mishaps with MS on a personal level, I ended up going to Mac, and I have never been happier. I may have to run FS in XP mode, but at least its XP and not vista.

Sweet freedom..



Bill

[mike_cyul]

Well, while we're all speculating:

If the younger-aged groups are becomming the marketing target: The older-age group is becomming by far the largest consumer group (thanks to the Baby Boomers). Better not stop catering to our likes, MS. :)

If the next generation of FS is an app based system, like Apple, and doesn't require 'permission' to upload, and they put out an SDK, then developers may just have a whole new market as well as FSX/FS9. And if X-Plane developes to its full potential and attracts developers....

Mike

[Francois]

I'll stay standing if you don't mind? :ernae:

That's just Avsim talking, not Microsoft. Until I hear it from the source (and many of us have those, not only the would-be CNN-folks at Avsim) I'm firmly NOT voicing any 'facts' but instead just trying to make sure our hobby, and jobs, are as secure as possible in the future. By whatever means.

[CodyValkyrie]

I'm with Francois and Nick on this one. I would be surprised if ANY former employee knows a damn thing about what is happening to be frank. The only people that know at this point are the bean counters and head honchos, and they ain't talking... yet.

[Quixoticish]

Sorry, but once again where have these FACTS come from? Are they on a Microsoft website some where? has an employee of Microsoft been interviewed? They may indeed be factual, but until I hear it from Microsoft's own mouth, I simply don't give a toss. There has been so many rumours and presumptions over the last couple of weeks, that my brain is starting to oooze hydraulic oil as my temper rises.

Can a new forum for all these threads be started, so those of us who want to get on with the business of enjoying FSX don't have to be interrupted all the time? :engel016:

Well said Nick, I couldn't agree more.

[warchild]

If that were the case I would fully endorse hacking an authorization. MS from being the sometimes frustrating partner, have just become the enemy.
MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

Oh yes they were. just not in their gaming division.. Still, taking the popularity of fsx and the entire franchise, i can understand why hey would remodel the entire thing to run on live / Xbox. it's a good strategy, albeit, a really taitorous one to those of us who have supported it and moeso those that worked at ACES.
I'm sorry, but i always learned to make my own rules, and with the events being what they are, if i were able to program, i'd already be working on a hack to get around the registation issue.

[Prowler1111]

All i can say is:

:bs:

I agree 100% with Nick and Francois, it´s just like the plethora of "FS11" videos on youtube, FS11 screenshots and well, i still remember some FSX pics (while i was under an NDA) which were completely false.
It´s just a way to start a pandemonium, and well. WE KNOW that there is some strong campaing by Xplane creator to turn people over his sim..nuf said
Prowler

[hews500d]

If that were the case I would fully endorse hacking an authorization. MS from being the sometimes frustrating partner, have just become the enemy.
MS went nasty the day Bill Gates left.

+1 on the endorsement Roger. The amount of $$$ I have paid for FSX, Acceleration and addons, one way or the other, I'm going to be enjoying it for years to come God willing.


Darrell

[Silver Fox]

Let me get this straight...

This thread concerns what a third party reports that an unidentified, disgruntled, former employee (who was sacked with little notice during an economic crisis) said concerning his former employer.... Have I got that right so far?

Would someone, anyone, be so kind as to explain just where the word "credibility" might fit into the discussion?

[tigisfat]

+1 on the endorsement Roger. The amount of $$$ I have paid for FSX, Acceleration and addons, one way or the other, I'm going to be enjoying it for years to come God willing.


Darrell

If I don't like the new game, I won't play it. I won't get angry now. Who knows, it could be awesome. I'd buy a super hi-fi planet earth for FSX for several hundred dollars. I'd also love a central 'communist' payware marketplace where quality is monitoreds and I'm less likely to get ripped off. Developers may not like it, but it's time us consumers had some protection. I just don't want to pay for every second I'm on MSFS.

FSX is already sometimes photoreal, all we have to do is fill in the gaps and keep modding it. It can and will, with future computing, at least look as good as you'd ever expect a game too.

[grunau_baby]

I am going with Nick C. and Francois. Been around with too many marketing guys in my jobs before to know that those ideas posted at avsim are most probably turned and tossed in some heads at MS. For them it´s ONE possible direction... BUT before there isn´t any official statement if this is THE way they go I won´t panic. And if so I won´t panic either.

I will not jump this train for sure, but will enjoy FSX all the longer and believe in the free market and alternative developments! Hope dies last!

Alex

PS: If MS finally pi...s me off at least I do not have to tweak any OS any more for ages to make them bareable in future (Vista) There´s an upside to every downside!

[Quixoticish]

Oh yes they were. just not in their gaming division.. Still, taking the popularity of fsx and the entire franchise, i can understand why hey would remodel the entire thing to run on live / Xbox. it's a good strategy, albeit, a really taitorous one to those of us who have supported it and moeso those that worked at ACES.
I'm sorry, but i always learned to make my own rules, and with the events being what they are, if i were able to program, i'd already be working on a hack to get around the registation issue.

There are already a number of registration and activation fixes so no-one needs worry about not being able to install the software again if MS stop handing out activations (which I doubt they will even contemplate).

Many people had problems with a bug in the activation system prior to SP1 so were forced to resort to using it. Fortunately those kinks seem to have been ironed out and everything now activates as it should.

[icarus]

yes this is steve ballmer result

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc


Microsoft CEO Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&feature=related

[foreigndevil]

Long live FSX!
RIGHT!!!:friday:

[CBris]

Well whatever the facts are, "Pay as you play" is anathema to me. Oh sure, it doesn't cost the individual much, but it makes a lot of immoral money for the operator. The counter is, of course, that you pay royalties on records, videos and CDs - but you only pay royalties once and play a recording over and over again. "Pay as you play" is like legalising highway robbery. Actually it is a bit like taxes. Oh well, we are at least now seeing the true face of the "heads at the top" at last. Crooks, every one of them.

:a1451:

And calling it a game... even if it is "playing". That would definitely be good cause for bringing back medieval justice.

Oh well, this "heated debate" sure makes for entertainment, doesn't it. But one thing is certain: if ever the rumours come to fact about 'consoling' our hobby as an xbox type came with game controllers and pay as you play...

...then I am sure there will be less of us simmers using it.

[JoeW]

I started a thread over on "Newshawks" on this same subject. I'm sorry. I did that before I came here.
I was not trying to Highjack this thread.

[An-225]

Even though I'm fourteen, I want to fly Flight Simulator to exercise my flying skills. Through four years of constant flying in FS, I was able to fly take off, and fly a Cessna 152 through 30 knot winds/gusts, on my second time at the controls.

This move by MS to transform it [FS] into a game, certainly does not take my fancy.

Long live FSX, and the developers who have transformed it into what it is today.

[wombat666]

If nothing else, this should serve as a catalyst for the 'Add-On' developers.
We have FS9 and FSX, if these are set in stone then they have a stable base to work with.
Of course, being a cynic I prefer to wait and see if the 'truth' behind the rumour ever emerges.
:kilroy:

[jdhaenens]

Actually, quite the opposite for we freeware folks. I can't imagine that MS would allow freeware to sully bandwidth that someone could actually pay for. I don't allow my stuff on sites that charge a download fee now and can't see doing it in the future.

[Francois]

I doubt freeware would have a place at all in such a scheme..... so no good.

[Lewis-A2A]

But then it works ok with steam both pay and freeware.

[Bone]

Again:

You have a liscense for FSX, they have not sold it to you. In order to force move to a new system it is entirely possible that they may not continue to support authorizations for your installation-re-installation.

Currently a few talented peole at hone sitting behind a computer can produce a wonderful product, I guess this is the not the future of "Change you can believe in" , at least in FS.

T.

Hmmm. I've heard this before; that I don't own a copy of FSX, but merely own a users license that makes me little more than a "renter" of the product. Here's my beef with this concept. All of the previous MSFS's didn't require license activation, just a disk in the machine to make it fly. So, when I went to purchase FSX a year ago, I had the reasonable expectation that it would work in the same manner...ie, no license activation, just a disk to run. I pay for it, and walk out with a tangible object in my hand. No where on this object does it tell me I am only buying a users license, which could be revoked at the whim of Microsoft. It is a physical product, purchased like any other for my personal use. I get it home, load it up, and now it tells me I need to input the Product Key to make it fly. OK, great, I don't have to fool with swapping disks. The copyright agreement that I checked, still hasn't told me I just got swindled...it just says "you agree to the blah blah and blah blah blah". Standard boiler plate stuff that tells me I'm not supposed to bootleg the material, or try to give it away to all of my hundreds of friends.

Honestly, I didn't study the EULA. But, if somewhere in the gobblygook of that agreement it informs me I am on probationary status as a renter, that's just a little too late. It would be a bait-and-switch sale, which is illegal in the USA.

[Lateral-G]

It could be true or it could be false....

But it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. Else why would MS fire the ACES team? Perhaps MS sees the progression to a "pay to play" scheme as a valid business model for them.

IF things go that way then I will be content to keep flying FS9 and FSX as long as I have to. It may mean having to keep a PC capable to run them but I don't see that as a problem (so long as I can get parts as needed).''

-G-

[Silver Fox]

Guys... reality check time.

Even if the described model was MS's future direction they would still need someone to develop it! ACES cutbacks are due to the economy and the fact that disposable income is drying up. With hardware upgrades largely on hold, the customer base for FS11 was not looking good.

FS11 would have been the last FS title ever if MS had released it and it tanked because no one could meet the minimum system requirements! Shutting down FS development at this time has protected FS, not harmed it.

[Francois]

Honestly, I didn't study the EULA. But, if somewhere in the gobblygook of that agreement it informs me I am on probationary status as a renter, that's just a little too late. It would be a bait-and-switch sale, which is illegal in the USA.


If you think you know better than some 15.000 MS lawyers that have studied that EULA, then good luck to you........ :faint:






:ernae:

[Boomer]

I would need to reread the EULA but as I recall it is an individual license. Not a subscription.

Therefore MS would have to allow or setup a mechanism which would allow activation for the life of the product.

[n4gix]

Let me get this straight...

This thread concerns what a third party reports that an unidentified, disgruntled, former employee (who was sacked with little notice during an economic crisis) said concerning his former employer.... Have I got that right so far?

Would someone, anyone, be so kind as to explain just where the word "credibility" might fit into the discussion?

That is precisely in line with my own thoughts on this...

In my paraphrased words of the immortal Bard, "...'tis much to do about nothing."

Also, as Francois pointed out already, there are more than a few who's nose is (perhaps) a bit further into the caravan master's tent... :amen:

[Bjoern]

"Pay as you play"?

Someone ban this practice from this world. Please!

[EMatheson]

I would need to reread the EULA but as I recall it is an individual license. Not a subscription.

Therefore MS would have to allow or setup a mechanism which would allow activation for the life of the product.
and who decides that? That fact puts you right back into the position of a leasee... if they revoke your rent contract, you just wasted you money...
That, more than anything, is why I do not yet have FSX - or, for that matter, a number of FS9 payware releases that rely on web activation!

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

Credibility, in the case of the parties involved in posting this is unimpeachable, i do fully believe in them and their contacts and with good reason .<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Tempest in a teapot ... Not ... there is much in this field that goes unsaid <o:p></o:p>
because the sources involved are unable to declare fully the knowledge they have for fear of the repercussions , currently employed at MS or not , speculation on the part of the participants in this instance would benefit none of them , as well in the case of Avsim there is much credibility to lose by being wrong and for that reason alone the organization does not indulge in tabloid journalism and of their record i am proud. <o:p></o:p>
C Jodry Avsim News Editor <o:p></o:p>

[JIMJAM]

Makes sense to me.
We all bought FSX ONE time. Unless you lose or damage your disc, they sell one copy every 4 years.
Acceleration was a step in the right direction since they know we will buy ANYTHING they sling out.
I still do not undertand why MS didnt milk the sim with frequent downloadable content.
Instead they sat back and watched CS sell $60 broken planes and let places like Simmarket sell anything and everthing for their sim with no quality control what so ever.
Grass,colored water,sounds,clouds,lights,cracks in the pavement, SELL IT!
Now MS gets to control their property and gain control over the poeple making $$$ off it.
Valve did this. You did not OWN the game, they were simply letting you use it.
I fought that idea tooth and nail but in the end, if I wanted to play Half Life2, I had no choice.
MS knows we will be frothing at the mouth and in a frenzy over any sim release and make a killing.
All we can hope for is another big hitter jumping in and trying to take advantage of the situation.
FSX has been beat up since day 1 and years later nobody has offered any real competition so I am not optimistic it will ever happen.

[Gdavis101]

I am not at all surprised by this move! Only one thing came to mind when I read that article, it was "Life is to short!" Once FSX's life expectancy expires, whenever that may be, I think I would be pretty hard pressed to look at anything "online" in the FS style of gaming.

The good news is, I do not need to build another PC in two years and I can just be happy with what I have. As long as 3rd party companies keep putting the stuff they put out for FSX and FS9 I will continue to buy it, when that day comes to an end then it will be time to find a new hobby.

[SolarEagle]

Not everybody is displeased with Microsofts decision....

http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=8934.msg73777#msg73777

[Roger]

I just read the link Solar Eagle and realised that I'm too far removed from "modern" to even grasp the concept of "Live" = Pleasure.
As long as there is a generator to power my pc and all the EMPs haven't taken out my hardware, I can still fly planes after the Apocalypse.

[Lewis-A2A]

hehe the funny thing is, in other news, MS has recently said its no interest in the XBOX 720 yet and is quite happy to carry on in the meantime with the 360.

[JIMJAM]

It will be a cold day in hell before download a "patch or "update " from MS for FSX.
Same with connecting online with FSX.
I remember with Falcon Allied Force I was also using a 3rd party payware hi rez cockpit. I installed a "patch" from the developter of the sim and it disabled the addon and you couldnt reinstall it.
Seems the developer wasnt getting any of the $$$ from the cockpit builder.
Not that MS would pull such as stunt.
I bought Gears of War for the PC and found out you HAD to sign up and join MS's online site. You were not forced too,you just couldnt make in game changes or save your progress.
Its was free but my computer/browser whatever refuses to connect to their server.
A trip to their forums and it was total anarchy. I counted some 60 pages full of complains and technical problems.
The answer I and alot received to solve our problem?
Format the system and get Vista. Also those who were paying online customers were reporting fewer issues.
Man this whole idea is smelly.
But again I can understand the $$$ aspect of it.

[Guruswarmyoz]

I'm totally disappointed in MS, Mr Balmer being an aviation person (he does own a Mustang & several other historic aircraft) this is the most upsetting thing.
I doubt Mr Balmer would EVER read this but this situation is akin to the FAA coming in to say the Mr Balmer you CANNOT operate your aircraft, you CANNOT let people visit your museum without paying the people who visit it & view it for a "fee".
Micro$oft has given us a "standard PC operating system" over the years of which i do appreciate & use all i would expect in reverse for the high cost of purchasing a licence for windows is a bloody decent flight sim & other software (inc. games) - all of which cost a fair amount of money.

Micro$oft it is in YOUR long-term interests & profitability that you SERVE the customers of which have made you rather affluent over the years. The current financial downturn is just that. Things will & do recover, fair enough to suspend development of FS11 & wait for times to be better that i agree with. I personally happy to have a 3 to 5 year turnaround as it lets things mature but also you could have less staff working long term on a project & thus would ensure a more bug-free release. but in essence i am saying that these "corporate types" just DO NOT SERVE THE CUSTOMER anymore & they bloody well wonder WHY pofits go down & sales go down whilst they pay themselves truck-loads of money thinking that their salaries make them worthwile & important people.
What would i do if i were M$?
Yes make a flight sim & have the best of both worlds i.e.


have a console version with the "live content", see how it goes it may well increase the customer base & make a profit.
Cater for the PC & thus hobby market that has the benifit of long term support of company products.

I personally USE FSX as a simulator to practice proceedures such as navigating, nav-aid use etc for real world stuff as it benifits me. X-Plane is not an option, only good for north america.

[GT182]

M$ can shove their "pay for play" up their ol gazoo. And if it won't play on a PC, I won't have it.... I will not go console. And if enough people stay the course, M$ could hang itself. If they go console only for FS they're making the biggest mistake ever. I actually hope they eventually go broke from their resent "dumba*ss decisions. It would serve them right.

Now if Apple picks up on all if this, think of the repercussions. We could be with Lionheart and all have Macs that would run PC games as we do now with MS. Come on Apple... git r dun.

Just my 2 cents that don't mean all that much.

[tigisfat]

If you think you know better than some 15.000 MS lawyers that have studied that EULA, then good luck to you........ :faint:






:ernae:

Those 15,000 Ms lawyers know that not everything is to be taken literally. There are courtroom theatrics lawyers employ that will get thrown out, just as there are illegal demands in nearly every EULA. The average EULA wouldn't last five seconds in court.

[heywooood]

it is very frustrating - but a change was likely and I guess until we see what shakes out of all this talk and forecasting - we will have to get by with our PC's....and FSX core as it is.

afterall - we're not talking about tomorrow or next week here.

and if they think they can sell this idea the way it looks to me today - well - they're dumber than they look.:wavey:

[Bone]

If you think you know better than some 15.000 MS lawyers that have studied that EULA, then good luck to you........ :faint:






:ernae:

No Sir, not me. However, I'll take the good luck any way.:faint:

[Sundog]

I have no idea what MS is up to, and to the best of my knowledge, neither does anyone else around here. Having said that,
1) I have FSX, but can't run it yet
2) I'm still enjoying FS9 and they aren't going to change that.
3) Hopefully Austin Meyers will recognize the marketing possibilities and make it so planes designed in gmax/3dsmax can be imported into X-Plane and used as the "visual" model for the x-plane aircraft. If X-Plane aircraft looked as good as FS aircraft and the terrain could be updated as well as in FS, I would be there in a heartbeat. Hopefully he'll recognize that now is his chance to make a huge incursion into the MS marketplace.

Barring that, I wonder how long the aces team non compete agreement is for? Maybe it's time for a good open source flight simulator? Whatever the case, there will always be something for us.

If MS is actually thinking what some people are claiming here, well, I'm LMAO, because it quite literally doesn't understand this market if that's what they're thinking. Time will tell.

[Nonno]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Darn, there is no proof of any of this nonsense. I can't believe a bunch of grown men can act like gossiping women!!! MS is going to do whatever they want to do, no matter what anyone here wants them to do. They closed the Aces Studio because of our lovely economy. Have you noticed alot of business's have cut back. Did MS become MS because they don't know business? One thing you can be sure of is that if the Flight Simulator series is something MS think they can make money on they aren't going to drop it. So, take a breath and enjoy what we have, FSX is still cutting edge and has alot of life left in it!

[Prowler1111]

:amen:

Prowler

[empeck]

Hopefully Austin Meyers will recognize the marketing possibilities and make it so planes designed in gmax/3dsmax can be imported into X-Plane and used as the "visual" model for the x-plane aircraft. If X-Plane aircraft looked as good as FS aircraft and the terrain could be updated as well as in FS, I would be there in a heartbeat. Hopefully he'll recognize that now is his chance to make a huge incursion into the MS marketplace.

I's already possible. BUT X-Plane doesn't have an equivalent for easy xml scripting like FS9/FSX do. If you want to expand X-Plane capabilities you have to write c++ plugins, which aint easy. That's why you can have nice looking plane in X-Plane already, but don't count on Accusim-like systems.

[n4gix]

I's already possible. BUT X-Plane doesn't have an equivalent for easy xml scripting like FS9/FSX do. If you want to expand X-Plane capabilities you have to write c++ plugins, which aint easy. That's why you can have nice looking plane in X-Plane already, but don't count on Accusim-like systems.

There was a very long thread taking place at AVSIM...

...until I started asking questions regarding the capabilities of the "gauge and panel system."

After several generalized replies, and one link to the "SDK" was made...

...THUD! :faint:

Thread ends with my final questions unanswered. :monkies:

From that I conclude that it would not be possible to render this panel in X-Plane:

[Prowler1111]

I honestly tried to export my A-6 into the X-plane system(can´t call it a sim) and Bill....i hit that wall so hard, that i just decided that FS98 died 11 yrs ago...
Best regards
Prowler

[Lionheart]

Nice panel there Bill!

What model of Garmins are those?


Bill

[empeck]

There was a very long thread taking place at AVSIM...

...until I started asking questions regarding the capabilities of the "gauge and panel system."

After several generalized replies, and one link to the "SDK" was made...

...THUD! :faint:

Thread ends with my final questions unanswered. :monkies:

From that I conclude that it would not be possible to render this panel in X-Plane:

Could you give a link to that thread at Avsim?

[airfighterjohn]

I seem to remember some pretty good flight sims from the mid to late 90's such as the Jane's Simulations, Pro Pilot and some others. If M$ decides to do away with flight simulation totally, then sooner or later someone WILL come up with another good simulation that will fill that empty place. M$ knows this as well, and they will try tooth and nail to stay on "the cutting edge" to keep other companies from filling this niche. Another thing--and this HAS been ruled on by the courts--If you no longer work for a company through no fault of your own, such as layoffs, then you CANNOT BE BARRED from working for a competing organization. You can be barred from revealing trade secrets, but that is all. For example,if I am an engineer working for Boeing and get laid off, then I CANNOT be barred from going to work for another aerospace company, doing the same job. I just cannot reveal proprietary information.

[n4gix]

Nice panel there Bill!

What model of Garmins are those?


The new G300's developed for the C162. This is the same panel/gauge set I posted about at Freeflight Design some months ago... ;)

Aside from the panel background (1680x1500) and gauge bezels, it is 100% vector drawn. :wiggle:

[n4gix]

Could you give a link to that thread at Avsim?

Sure: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=242107

[jdhaenens]

I looked at X-plane's scenery how-to's and got lost. Although there was a thread on one of their forums where a guy was trying to transfer my NAS Pensacola Scenery into X-Plane. Other folks were helping the gent along like no problems exist with doing whatever you wish with others' copyrighted material.... Put a bad taste in my mouth for X-Plane for sure.

[Nick C]

I may have missed it in this or other threads, but the most interesting article I've read about ACES, MS and FS is the following.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/03/microsoft_flight_simulator_partners/

[Lionheart]

yikes...!

Good find there Nick...


Makes me wish I had already been converting packages to XP9. Looks like the moguls are looking for a replacement for FS 'now!'



Bill

[Nick C]

I don't think so yet Bill, I think they feel hurt and are looking for explanations and information from MS to enable them to plan for the future.

[Francois]

I may have missed it in this or other threads, but the most interesting article I've read about ACES, MS and FS is the following.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/03/microsoft_flight_simulator_partners/

It is listed in the 100.000 FS Fans Facebook group :wavey:

[JT8D-9A]

"Microsoft today unveiled new features for the Games for Windows – Live gaming service. The online service will now allow users to access a new in-game marketplace and upload their personal settings from any Windows PC."

source:
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/gdc-new-games-for-windows-ndash-live-features-announced/?biz=1

[Quixoticish]

"Microsoft today unveiled new features for the Games for Windows – Live gaming service. The online service will now allow users to access a new in-game marketplace and upload their personal settings from any Windows PC."

source:
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/gdc-new-games-for-windows-ndash-live-features-announced/?biz=1

Surprise surprise what? People seem to be jumping on the "let's bash live" bandwagon and there seems to be a huge amount of misinformation about what exactly this has to do with Flight Simulator.

[JT8D-9A]

I'm a MS, Live and FSX basher since the beginning lol
Just an information, no bashing - not even a comment if i like the idea or not.
It's simply not a huge surprise and i think the future predictable.

[d0mokun]

It's not a surprise though, not at all. Not for the reason that everybody expects though. Live has been around for years. Games for Windows Live has been around years, too. MS are just updating it to fall in line with Xbox Live.

[Lateral-G]

Live is just a "pay-to-play" scheme. A way for MS to keep a revenue stream going vs users just paying one time for the game and being to play it "forever".

Each business model has its merits and drawbacks.

Several things IMO have to happen before the flightsim community can embrace the "pay-to-play" idea. For over 20 years now we have been used to buying a sim program then flying it for a year or two then upgrading to the next version. We always had the option of keeping what we had or moving up. Or skipping a "generation" and moving up later. That's because flight sims seem to have a longer shelf life. We flight simmers don't get too bored with what we have in short order. Mostly because 3rd party developers keep offering freeware or payware items to keep things fresh.

This doesn't happen in the console world (or typical FPS PC games). You get what is released and play it until you get bored because you reached all the levels and it becomes the same-old, same-old. There are no 3rd party ad-ons or updates. You play what you have until the developers release a new version/sequel/update/whatever. This insures a revenue stream for the software developer. As an off-hand guess I would say FPS gamers get bored with what they have within a few months (is there a vast majority of guys still playing the original HALO?)

Flight sims are always different each time you boot them up. It's a harder nut for the game developer to crack. We flight simmers get set in our ways and have other sources to spice things up so we're not tired with the same 10 airplanes to choose from. MS may have thought at one time it was cool to release the code to allow add-ons for 3rd parties but I think they see now how it limits their revenue. With pay-to-play they can control what we get, when we get it and how we use it plus they make a buck off it.

If (and this is a big IF) they want to be successful with pay-to-play they'll need to make sure they keep adding things to make the simmer WANT to continue. MS will need to keep introducing new aircraft, scenery, color schemes, etc. to make sure simmers stay connected. I think most simmers are solitary by nature when they fly and don't want to have to deal with other simmers in a 'multi-player' environment. I know flying "live" doesn't interest me in the least.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. There will be a definite pardigm shift coming in the next few years.

-G-

[FLighT01]

I saw a news item this morning that I-Tunes (I think, not sure, I don't use such services, not interested) raised the per tune DL from 0.99cents to $1.29.

Therein lies my issue with subscription based. If they needed an almost 30% increase to cover, whatever, the product was never priced correctly or honestly to begin with, but the business model is hookem' and cookem'. It's all about the money, always has been, always will be. That's what capitalism is all about. The more you can convince people that your product or service is worth the money the better it is for you as the provider of that product or service. And if it isn't really better you can use marketing and other techniques to work around the facts, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

And in some cases you increase rates just because you can (the credit card companies come to mind). The problem with applying this to a flight sim as I see it is the product itself. Let's face it, does anyone think the hundreds of forums that exist worldwide dedicated to flight simming exist because the products work as they should, as advertised, with all features intact?

How many postings say, "boy this works perfectly and meets my expectations", because at that point there's little to post about anymore.

Given the trials and tribulations I've been through with FSX and it's predecesors there's no way I'd join a subscription service for this kind of product performance, especially since you know it's only going to go up in monthly cost as quickly as they feel thay can get away with it.

I won't be the first on my block to get involved with pay for play, I've already got a belly full of that with Comcast (no competion where I am, satellite dishes not permitted, fios won't or can't come into the condo complex), product quality never really improves, basically I only watch a dozen or so of the hundreds of channels I'm having to pay for monthly.

Fortunately, we do have a choice, we don't have to subscribe, if that's the future for flight sims, and although it might sound heretical, for me I'm certain there can be life after flight simming. I've discovered this all through my life with a number of diversions I've enjoyed getting deeply involved with but no longer do for one reason or another. But I do think about support for the current product as pertains to reinstallations going forward. If the OS's and software weren't so buggy and fubar ridden it might not be an issue. That, in my experience, has not been the case.

I also have no interest on the "Live" or anything "on line". I'm of those solitary simmers referred to above.

But the beauty of capitalism is that if the demand is there for some product or service delivered in a certain way, someone will try and meet that demand if they think hey can make a profit from it.

[cheezyflier]

.......

everything you said mirrors my own opinion, except i have less love for comcast than you.

[Lateral-G]

everything you said mirrors my own opinion, except i have less love for comcast than you.

Your less love for comcast can in no way compare for my lesser love for Charter........

:icon_lol:

-G-

[FLighT01]

LOL fellas, the funny thing is Comcast has a good reliabilty record in my locale, but it still represents very poor value for dollar. Especially as, since I first got cable in the early 80's, I've never rented a movie even once or watched a pay-per-view sports event.

Maybe I'll go back to rabbit ears with a digital coverter for off the air signal.

[JT8D-9A]

As i read the article i thought about how modifiable will be a new Live Game - if modifications and add-ons will be only allowed through the in-game marketplace and if there are limitations because of the authentication.
I think there are also a lot positive aspects and possibilities but freeware is my main concern, because i think a community can only exist if everyone is able to contribute something.

[Lionheart]

As i read the article i thought about how modifiable will be a new Live Game - if modifications and add-ons will be only allowed through the in-game marketplace and if there are limitations because of the authentication.
I think there are also a lot positive aspects and possibilities but freeware is my main concern, because i think a community can only exist if everyone is able to contribute something.


Two very good points. Upgradeability and freeware.

Freeware is what caused the massive, huge interest in Flight Simulator. A platform that was easy to make planes for and a huge number of people were suddenly making everything and anything to fly in FS with. Then came the 'ultra models' and enter the payware world of sophisticated, decked out, detailed planes.

With FSX, came a ultra sophistication of models and freeware has dried up I believe about 90% to 95%. Where we had perhaps 100 devs in the freeware world, I think we probably have a few now. Paul, Tim, Jans, to mention several. Time to make a bird is now longer, almost over a year on the average, so the lag between releases is causing a drop in FS instrest.

I would have to say that flying a new plane once a week in FS is what really got me hooked or addicted. Now its about every 2 months that a nice bird comes out, if that.

Its sort of like the movies. A new movie once a week gives you something to do on the weekends. A movie coming out once every 6 to 8 weeks, and you are suddenly needing to find something else to do on Friday nights, unless you want to go watch the same movies over and over.


As for payware online playing with FS, lol.. well.. I think thats a bit hilarious. Thats like running Windows Word online and paying 'moment to moment'. People will migrate to XP9 so fast. And people in Word will migrate to OpenGL Office.

We (the customers) are broke these days. We are saving all our pennies now.


As for the others like Star Wars and some of the games that are role playing, that are totally based on payware online playing 'only', they have been massively successful. But they started out that way, and they have some cool features and things (if I am correct), so they have their own world. But, I, well, I dont see how you can get a guy in there that just wants to fly a Cessna 140 from Phoenix to Flagstaff and pay $5.00 to do it is going to happen.


Hey,

Ubuntu! :d

:ernae:


Bill

[guzler]

I am personally against this idea strongly, however it may be a commercially good idea. Are most people who use MSFS people like us that visit forums, upload and download freeware and so on or are they people who don't even know forums exist and walk into a shop and buy an addon ? If it is the latter, its a good commercial decision, as they will know no better and do it. It is the avid fans that will suffer, but if we are in the minority, MS will not give a stuff, its all about ££££ or $$$ at the end of the day.

Does anyone know any statistics in this respect ?

[gera]

Once again we see how "greedy" M$ is and many others. This world is being destroyed by individuals and Companies that have lost all sence of values, be them, family values, political values and obviously commercial values.....if M$ wants everyone to pay per shot they will have to set up a Cyber Fair and make sure there is free Pop Corn and Balloons......It is M$ type companies that are destroying democracy and letting in a bandwagon of critters.....Oh Boy!!!!!..if you see a guy with long robes and a beard--Don´t let him in!!!! he is not Jesus Perez!!!!!!!!

[hinch]

I hope that X-plane developers really seize the oppurtunity to take some talent from MSFS. I downloaded the 9.6 demo today and on top top settings it looks extremely good, it just lacks the planes we have. It also does 100FPS :rapture:

I also really like the geek configuration settings and all those cheap little aircraft... hmm. They're even doing an MS fall-out offer!

[Quixoticish]

Can someone please elaborate on where exactly it has been revealed that Microsoft Flight Sim will be moving to a pay to play service? I feel as though I've missed a vital piece of news somewhere along the line...

[Lateral-G]

Can someone please elaborate on where exactly it has been revealed that Microsoft Flight Sim will be moving to a pay to play service? I feel as though I've missed a vital piece of news somewhere along the line...

No one has outwardly said MS flight sim is going to pay to play but it's pretty clear the writing is on the wall and that's the way it will be headed:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/mar07/03-14G4WandXboxLIVEPR.mspx

With the recent disbandment of the MSFS development team and the trend of going to live, on-line play of XBox titles it makes sense from a MS business perspective.

It may be pure speculation at this point but I would bet money on 'pay-to-play' for MS flight sim in the future.

-G-

[Quixoticish]

Thanks Lateral-G.

Still, I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that we're going the way of pay-to-play like the X-box gamers. LIVE on the PC is simply a matchmaking and stat tracking service and is completely free, and long may it continue.

[d0mokun]

Xbox Live is hardly pay-to-play either. I've not had a Gold membership for ages now and it doesn't stop me from playing any games I own, offline or online.

As Chris says- the PC equivalent is completely free so what's the problem?

[JT8D-9A]

Two very good points. Upgradeability and freeware.

Freeware is what caused the massive, huge interest in Flight Simulator. A platform that was easy to make planes for and a huge number of people were suddenly making everything and anything to fly in FS with. Then came the 'ultra models' and enter the payware world of sophisticated, decked out, detailed planes.

With FSX, came a ultra sophistication of models and freeware has dried up I believe about 90% to 95%. Where we had perhaps 100 devs in the freeware world, I think we probably have a few now. Paul, Tim, Jans, to mention several. Time to make a bird is now longer, almost over a year on the average, so the lag between releases is causing a drop in FS instrest.

I would have to say that flying a new plane once a week in FS is what really got me hooked or addicted. Now its about every 2 months that a nice bird comes out, if that.

Its sort of like the movies. A new movie once a week gives you something to do on the weekends. A movie coming out once every 6 to 8 weeks, and you are suddenly needing to find something else to do on Friday nights, unless you want to go watch the same movies over and over.


As for payware online playing with FS, lol.. well.. I think thats a bit hilarious. Thats like running Windows Word online and paying 'moment to moment'. People will migrate to XP9 so fast. And people in Word will migrate to OpenGL Office.

We (the customers) are broke these days. We are saving all our pennies now.


As for the others like Star Wars and some of the games that are role playing, that are totally based on payware online playing 'only', they have been massively successful. But they started out that way, and they have some cool features and things (if I am correct), so they have their own world. But, I, well, I dont see how you can get a guy in there that just wants to fly a Cessna 140 from Phoenix to Flagstaff and pay $5.00 to do it is going to happen.


Hey,

Ubuntu! :d

:ernae:


Bill
Bill,
Please compare the Avsim library FSX section with the X-Plane.org XP9 section ;)

I love Ubuntu. It's open, everyone can contribute, it's constantly evolving/improved and it's an "adult" OS, not really a gamer OS.
The more people use it and participate, the better it will get.
That reminds me somehow of FS:engel016:

But i still like MS (even if they are too slow).
I only think it's good to voice concerns early and not in hindsight...


Nils

[Lionheart]

Bill,
Please compare the Avsim library FSX section with the X-Plane.org XP9 section.

Nils/JT8D-9A


I totally agree. FS has far more addons then XP9.

I think there are far less people with XP9 then people with FSX, and we have been into making models for FS for ages now. I think the guys at XP9 are new to all of this. They only recently came out with VC's, and their devs are having to learn how to make those.

I see XP9 as going through the stages we did with FS2002. Thats pretty much where they are. We Devs need to go in there and show them how to make some cool stuff. :d




I love Ubuntu. It's open, everyone can contribute, it's constantly evolving/improved and it's an "adult" OS, not really a gamer OS.
The more people use it and participate, the better it will get.
That reminds me somehow of FS

Nils/JT8D-9A

I am dying to try it. I am going to as soon as I get an old computer running to put it on. (or do the running CD on the Lappie).

I am so impressed with Apple presently. Fast, crisp.. But Win has Gmax, FS, Photoshop.. arrghh..


Bill

[n4gix]

There is absolutely no information at this time that even hints that any future FS will be a "pay to play" scheme. You will buy the software, download it, and either...

...a) play it "offline"
or
...b) play it "online"

[tigisfat]

There is absolutely no information at this time that even hints that any future FS will be a "pay to play" scheme. You will buy the software, download it, and either...

...a) play it "offline"
or
...b) play it "online"


You're saying this as if you have firsthand knowledge?

[Kiwikat]

I am dying to try it. I am going to as soon as I get an old computer running to put it on. (or do the running CD on the Lappie).

You don't even need a CD for it. You can make live USB drives now. :engel016:

[Francois]

....... it just lacks the planes we have. It also does 100FPS :rapture:



When you get past the demo and delve a bit deeper into both the sim itself and the communities surrounding it, you will soon find that it lacks quite a bit more than just that :faint:

[n4gix]

You're saying this as if you have firsthand knowledge?

It is a reasonable conclusion based upon what the delivery model for PC LIVE is currently, as well as other bits-and-bobs of datum which I've read and collected during my peregrinations around the World Wide Wasteland... :typing: