Water AI Traffic Question

[falcon409]

I have tried using an Amphibian as an AI to fly out to Race Rock Lighthouse off the coast of Fisher Island. Problem is twofold, first since it has a landing gear that automatically drops when in the pattern and the airplane ends up landing on the gear rather than the floats. . .and second, as mentioned, it lands on the water as though it's a hardened surface, there's no splash, no wake, nothing. I've gone over the ADE parameters and everything indicates a water runway surface, yet it won't settle into the water. I'm about to sub in a float plane for the Amphib and see if it reacts any differently. Any suggestions for either. . .or both?

[aspen31]

Hi
I have the opposite problem in that I have a mix of AI amphibians some of which never lower the gear and land on runways in that configuration - others the opposite. I have yet to determine which is which since they appear as "G-21, paint 1" for example in the aircraft list of my AI Airport Enhancer program. Recently I have started to experiment with some other AI amphibians which are part of packages produced by Cal Classic for FS9. They seem to work correctly but so far I have only observed function on runways. In any case I'm wondering if there is some clue in the specific aircraft .CFG which might help. I use Prepar3D exclusively.
Not much substance in this reply I know but perhaps a start.
Incidentally you produce excellent scenery. Thanks very much for that.
Warren (aspen31)

[dexthom]

All my water runways are defined as Concrete. I assume that is to trigger the spray effects when float planes land. For your application, you need to use float AIs. I use amphibs on land and they work fine.

[Astoroth]

Ok, to get AI to work on water, you need several special conditions.

1. Your runways and taxiways must be concrete, with a width of 0'. Don't know why that is, but it comes straight from Holger Sandmann.
2. Your amphibians must be specially modified to work correctly. The .cfg file must specify fixed gear, and the wheels must be set to the exact co-ordinates of the float points. Disadvantage is, they look funny when landing on their floats on land, so I usually set up a water runway out in the middle of nowhere and have my AI fly in to my water airport from there.

If you want to get a good look at some AI floatplanes to see how they are setup, download ai_float.zip. I think I got it from flightsim.com. It's a floatplane starter kit from Holger that was originally for FS9, but they work just as well in FSX.

[nigel richards]

Astoroth is on to it with one minor exception; in my experience, water may be specified as a material, instead of concrete.
I haven't been able to make them INVISIBLE, however - so if someone knows a workaround for this, I'd be most grateful.

FS9 & FSX still treat the taxiways etc., as hard surfaces whatever taxiway surface you choose. - so you'll still need purpose-built or modified models WITHOUT gear, or with gear permenantly retracted to look 'amphibious'.

EDIT: I seem to recall a nice ai package for Canadair cl-215 and cl-415's incorporating a variety of such specifically created ai models with and without gear for this reason.

[falcon409]

Some great info here for sure. I was told about the ai_float.zip over at FSDevelopers, so I have that. Along with the good information here I think I have a good start. Some trial and error and get the kinks worked out. . .maybe I'll be able to announce success at last, lol. I'll sure post something once I get it working. Might even write a short tutorial that gives others a good starting point to work from. . .I'll be sure to include everyones name as contributors.:adoration:

[expat]

I find water AI fascinating. I find water AI maddening. LOL.

Had it working in FS9 and I think FSX a while back. Used the Holger.zip etc etc.

I have a set up now where the float planes simply sit in their parking spaces and float. They refuse to budge and taxi or takeoff. I have concrete taxiways and runways at 0 feet wide. ADE shows "no faults" (a rarity for many of my ADE creations!). I have the traffic files for the planes set up to do TNG's and these files compile fine in TTools.

The mystery of water AI continues . .

[falcon409]

I find water AI fascinating. I find water AI maddening. LOL.

Had it working in FS9 and I think FSX a while back. Used the Holger.zip etc etc.

I have a set up now where the float planes simply sit in their parking spaces and float. They refuse to budge and taxi or takeoff. I have concrete taxiways and runways at 0 feet wide. ADE shows "no faults" (a rarity for many of my ADE creations!). I have the traffic files for the planes set up to do TNG's and these files compile fine in TTools.

The mystery of water AI continues . .
I hear ya expat. I feel the same way. . .ground airports are so much simpler, but I'm determined to have my way with the water, lol.

[leuen]

I haven't been able to make them INVISIBLE
You might use Afcad 221. It's the unique tool allowing to set width at 0.4 ft.


They refuse to budge and taxi or takeof
Is your runway long enough (at least 4000 ft.)?

[expat]

Ah ha! Let me check that out. Thanks.

[nigel richards]

You might use Afcad 221. It's the unique tool allowing to set width at 0.4 ft.


Is your runway long enough (at least 4000 ft.)?

Interesting you mention Afcad 221 - It's what I also use for ai taxiways. Although a regular user of of the indispensable and extremely versatile ADE for airport/scenery work, I've never tried it for ai water setups.

[expat]

ADE let's you set them 0 or 0.1, 0.4 etc. Not sure that is necessary? Don't you set them all to 0 ft or anything less than 1.0 ft?

[leuen]

ADE let's you set them 0 or 0.1, 0.4 etc.
Of course, your'e right. I didn't specified that I meant invisible runways. Sorry.

[falcon409]

Success is mine. . .mwaaahaahaa. I have succeeded in making ADE files for my Nantucket Float Plane Base and Race Rock Lighthouse that allow my Ampib AI (Steven Grant's Aviat Husky) to take off from Nantucket, fly the 90nm to the lighthouse, land, taxi up to the lighthouse and sit for a short duration (approx 10 min), then taxi back out, take off and return to the Float Plane Base at Nantucket.

Here's what happened to change the success rate from "0" to "1" for me, lol. I had the hold short lines at Nantucket with the broken lines facing the runway. I flipped those and everything started working. Go figure, lol.

[expat]

Hey well done Falcon! I need to lengthen my problem water runway to 4000' and will report back.

[falcon409]

Hey well done Falcon! I need to lengthen my problem water runway to 4000' and will report back.
Just FYI, the rwy at Nantucket is 4000', but the one at the Lighthouse is only 2000'. . .both work fine.

[falcon409]

GRRRRRR. . .and this is why people jump off tall buildings for no apparent reason. . .AI Traffic that works perfectly one day then refuses to work the next day. It defies logic that an airplane can make the round trip one day. . .load everything up the next day start from the same departure airport and it flies halfway there and disappears into oblivion. Water AI sucks. lol

[expat]

Sure does! I had the worst/funniest experience in FS9 where I had a bunch of Grumman HU-16 and Geese all in these nice parking spots around these islands in the Indian River in FL. I had a PBY doing touch and goes working well on the water runway out in the river. Even had a working float Hughes egg beater (think from the Holger.zip starter kit) that taxied out and did some TNG's. However, when the the time came up in the flightplan for the parked Grumman and other seaplanes to push back, they would all in perfect synchronicity suddenly flip over and disappear below the surface of the water without a trace! Never tracked down the source of that one!

[PhantomTweak]

they would all in perfect synchronicity suddenly flip over and disappear below the surface of the water without a trace!
Don't you hate it when they do that?? :banghead:
Very hard on aircrews...
Pat☺

[expat]

Runway along with taxi paths, hold short nodes, etc extended to 4,002 feet. No faults found (my land airports sometimes work with several faults). But my amphibs are all still just hangin' around, lol.

https://s28.postimg.org/dvi00mdt9/Mooney_Harbor.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/p7uliemi1/)

[falcon409]

I have to say though, they look great sitting out there, lol. It is frustrating and I don't want to abandon the work I've done, but I've not ever run into anything so aggravating as trying to get this water system to work. I posted my ADE files and the traffic files over on FSDeveloper in hopes someone there can look them over and spot a possible solution.:dizzy:

[expat]

Yeah, those guys are pretty good on this stuff.

Forgetting my water AI 'science' now, but isn't there a rule that parking spots need to be X distance away (close?) to the runway for things to work correctly?

[falcon409]

Yeah, those guys are pretty good on this stuff.
Forgetting my water AI 'science' now, but isn't there a rule that parking spots need to be X distance away (close?) to the runway for things to work correctly?
Well, I know "hold short" spots can't be over a certain distance from the rwy or things don't work, not sure about the parking spots.

I decided to try flying in FSX rather than P3DV3 and wouldn't you know. . . .it works, lol. Really expected to see the two AI (Aviat Husky and Waco Classic) disappear as we neared Block Island....but right now we're about 5nm from the lighthouse and the airplanes are in the pattern. Go figure, lol

[leuen]

I posted my ADE files and the traffic files over on FSDeveloper in hopes someone there can look them over and spot a possible solution.
Just used your files with FS9. Besides some heavy turbulances and a slight adjustment of your Nantucket ADE I had no issues.



but isn't there a rule that parking spots need to be X distance away (close?) to the runway for things to work correctly?
No. Some of my parkings are extremely narrow to runways.

[falcon409]

Just used your files with FS9. Besides some heavy turbulence and a slight adjustment of your Nantucket ADE I had no issues.
Can you elaborate on the adjustment you made?

[leuen]

With FS9 your AI parking are situated on land. While reaching start position the AI creates wakes. Therefore it moved your whole ADE to the water. That's all.

[falcon409]

With FS9 your AI parking are situated on land. While reaching start position the AI creates wakes. Therefore it moved your whole ADE to the water. That's all.
Ah, ok. . .I understand.. .that would make it tough to use, lol