Boeing B-29 Superfortress 'Fifi' - Landing at Oshkosh

[gman5250]

Ran across this great cockpit video. This is a really good look at landing procedures for the Superfortress. What stood out when I was watching was the aileron/roll inputs, which were significant, and seeing how long it took for the airplane to respond. You really get a feel for the size of this gorgeous airplane. Enjoy....


GoPro Cockpit view from the Commemorative Air Force B-29 'Fifi' arriving at Airventure 2016 from Janesville, WI. Includes intercom and ATC audio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XqW4FfP_pU

[triflyman]

Thanks...great video.

I got to ride in the Cockpit of a UAL 727 going into LAX on a gusty day a number of years ago and was frankly shocked at how much aileron input was required for that bird.

[Dutcheeseblend]

Wow, nice video! Nice job, operating such a bird!

[WarHorse47]

"Fifi" visited our local airport in 2014 and ended up repairing one of her tires.

If she ever comes your way, I highly suggest seeing her - and if you can afford it, going on a flight.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/WarHorse47/Air%20Shows/2014%20Olympic%20Air%20Show/DSC01541_zps24bcbf50.jpg

[Bomber_12th]

Related video, from a few years back (describes a bit more about the heavy control handling in the B-29): http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1143348987001

The B-29 is a very procedural-based aircraft, requiring the teamwork of both the pilots and the flight engineer. From what I understand, the CAF has seven different individual crews of pilots/flight engineer combinations they can muster. There are 7 or 8 CAF-trained/qualified B-29 FE's, but only 2 of which are FAA-certified (the only FAA-certified B-29 crew chiefs in the world). Many years ago, the CAF was able to get permission from the FAA to operate without an FAA-certified B-29 FE, but for the test-flight phase on 'Doc', the FAA determined that a FAA-certified B-29 FE would be required. So until the flight testing is completed on 'Doc', and eventual permission can be granted to do away with the requirement, all flight operations are dependent on the availability of either of those two individuals (plus the CAF pilots they work with - the CAF guys will be training-in Doc's own crew over time).

[Alan_A]

Right seat pilot flying is Jeff Skiles (Sullenberger's FO and EAA columnist), isn't it?

[stovall]

Fi Fi is definitely worth seeing. The flight is over my head but the $5.00 tour was well worth it. While attending Oshkosh this year, being in the cockpit of a B-29 is something I only dreamed of. Fantastic aircraft. The crew chief mentioned for every hour of flight there is 100 hours of maintenance. Hearing those engines as she flew over us was an experience of a lifetime.

[Bomber_12th]

The crew chief mentioned for every hour of flight there is 100 hours of maintenance.

Still sounds a whole lot better than the amount of maintenance hours and headaches that were experienced by the CAF, for many years, with the original engines. Fortunately, it sounds like the new 'compound' engines, as installed on both FIFI and Doc, are proving to be everything they were hoped to be.

[mal998]

That gave me goose-bumps on the back of my neck. Watching these guys you get a real sense of how it must have been flying these giants over the Pacific and how much expertise those 20 year olds had in handling these giants. Even though the FDE might not be as real as it gets I still feel fortunate to have been give an opportunity to do the flight model for Virtavia's B-29. I might even feel inspired to re-visit the FDE with an update one of these days.

I was lucky enough to visit with Fifi at Cavanaugh's back in 2011:
41558
41559
41561
41560

[Bomber_12th]

By comparison to the first video posted, here is a video from the flightdeck of "Doc", during its first test flight (the most experienced "FIFI" crew at the helm): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi4_8UTzpVk

(From early on, "Doc" was being restored to be very authentic, but after "Doc's Friends" stepped in to continue the restoration, after it had stalled-out for a few years, the direction changed to making it a more modern/safety-minded restoration - as can be seen in the above video, the original stock panels/instrumentation were stripped out in favor of new/more modern panels/instrumentation. As I recall, the goal for "Doc" is to eventually tour the country and sell rides, so there would be a lot of cross-country flying in its future.)

[joe bob]

The thing that always gets me is the rear facing engineer doing all the throttle work.

[Bomber_12th]

Continuing off of previous comments, coincidentally one of "FIFI's" flight engineers just posted this to Facebook some minutes ago:

"Six years ago today, FIFI made her first flight with the new, hybrid, engines built by Anderson Aeromotive. Since that time, she has flown almost 915 hours. In 1989, with the old style engines, there were four engine changes in ten weeks. Engine changes happened so often that it was just a way of life. We could not operate FIFI, selling rides the way we do, today if we hadn't hung the new engines. These are large, radial, engines so they still create problems as they see fit. But the reliability of the newer style (knock on wood) is night and day different from the old engines.

The amount of work and money that went into the re engine project is unbelievable. It is also a fact that FIFI would still be grounded if it hadn't been done.

The B-29/B-24 Squadron will forever be thankful for Jim Cavanaugh making the financial commitment to get that job done. Many of the folks that did the work on the engine project are no longer with us. But they have never been forgotten. For those of us that were involved throughout that process, it was a unique experience and many good memories were made.

Thank you to all that have been on this ride with us over the last six years. Thank you to all the maintenance crew and volunteers that work so hard to keep FIFI in the air." - Brad Pilgrim, CAF B-29 FE

[Ian Warren]

I watched this Video the other day, putting in this perspective it really give one the idea of .. thinking war time, this is one hell great ride, and to follow up , brilliant photo Jock really looks the part , and Mal, your set of photo's , again just adds to it again. Superb ! :encouragement:

[ryapad]

Pretty cool.

[stansdds]

That was a great, in-cockpit, video, thanks for posting it! :applause: It does give some insight into how these bombers have to be flown and handled on the ground. In the case of the B-29, it was never designed to be operated in the manner that it is operated as a civilian aircraft. The B-29 was designed to be operated on large bases, with long and wide runways, and flown at high altitudes. It did that well, but as a warbird it must use smaller runways, narrow taxiways, small ramps, and is not flown at high altitudes where the air is extremely cold and could keep the original design of the engines cool. The hybrid R-3350 designed as a retrofit for Fifi, and now Doc, is far better for low altitude flying. As for the flying instruments, originals are fine for a museum piece, but for aircraft flying, especially long distances, I'm fine with them being fitted with modern equipment.

I'm really pleased that Fifi is still flying and that she will be joined by Doc. These are big aircraft, expensive to fly, expensive to maintain, and whenever I get a chance to see one, I'm happy to chip in a few dollars to keep them flying.

[Brian_Gladden]

back in the early 2000's, Fifi made a stop in Burlington VT. I just happened to drive by the airport and saw her on the ramp. Paid my money and got the tour. Got to sit in the right seat. One thing off the bucket list other than a flight...

[Pips]

That was one of the best video's I have ever seen on piloting a big bomber. Not just the B-29, but any.

Several things stood out for me.
* First off was, as mentioned earlier, the amount of stick work the co-pilot had to perform. He's literally having to saw that yoke side to side to maintain control. There is indeed a quite long gap between input and reaction.
* This obviously isn't an aircraft that is simply put on the glide path and flown in. The co-pilot has to work hard to bring this beast in.
* Every now and then the co-pilot used his right hand to fiddle with a lever/dial on his lower right. Was that a 'trim wheel'?
* You can really see the co-pilot tensed up the closer he got to landing.
* In marked contrast the master pilot is as cool as a cucumber. All the way through the process. He obviously has complete faith in his co-pilot.
* It may be the angle of the person filming, but vision out of the cockpit seems to be greatly affected by reflection on the curved canopy.

I didn't see either pilot working the throttles. Is that left to the Engineer? How does that work? He's facing backwards, so can't even see the aircraft on approach. How does he know when to ease/or increase the throttles on approach?

I admit I've only done 11 hours in a Jabiru 120, but slight adjustments of throttle with approach is instinctive and natural. It's almost a feel with flying. I'd hate to have someone else fiddling with the throttle while I'm flying.

[Bomber_12th]

The pilots will have control of the throttles while taxiing and at the beginning of the takeoff roll, using mainly the throttles to keep the aircraft down the center-line up until about 60-knots by which time the rudder becomes effective. At this point, the pilots will call for max power (44" MP) and the FE will take over the throttles until the aircraft is back on the ground again. As you can hear in the video, through the approach, the pilot(s) will make callouts to the FE for power changes to decrease/increase airspeed as needed - in the video, these callouts begin with "Manifold 26", then "Manifold 24", and then "Manifold 22", to keep the airspeed down as they are descending. Once they begin leveling off the approach a bit, they start slowing up a bit too much and they start calling for "Manifold 24", and then "Manifold 26". As can be heard in the video, just before reaching the threshold of the runway and initiating the flare, the pilot calls out "ease them off" and the FE begins pulling the throttles back to idle.

There are elevator trim wheels on both sides of the cockpit - one at the left of the pilot, and one at the right of the co-pilot, and there are throttle levers on either side of the pilots as well, in addition to those at the FE station (all interlinked of course), but only the FE has access to prop/mixture/fuel/ignition/starter controls.

As can be seen in photos/video of FIFI, and now Doc, the emergency escape hatch by the flight engineer is almost always kept open, as it allows the FE to see the starboard engines better (while also providing better ventilation on hot days). From where the FE sits, facing backward, he can visually keep an eye on the engines outside the aircraft as well, and not only just the instruments.

While the whole procedural system of pilot/FE operations in the B-29 was very much a new thing for military aircraft at the time, the Boeing 314 had already been in operation with the same sort of procedural operation, with a flight engineer controlling all of the engine work from a separate panel/location behind the main cockpit. Of course by the mid-40's, this would become common-place in all of the largest of American bombers/airliners that would follow.

[Pips]

Fascinating, thanks John.

For multi-engined pilots used to operating their own throttles eg B-17, B-24; the change to the FE operation must have been quite a change in procedure to get used to.

[DaveB]

Some 10 years ago, David Maltby and I were fortunate enough to be invited on an AAR flight in a VC10 C1K at Brize and the pilot/FE arrangement was very similar. The pilots would control the throttles until established in the climb whereupon the FE would take over. For any speed adjustments.. the PIC would call for percentage HPRPM and the FE would adjust accordingly using the throttles on the FE station. The RAF FD crew also included a navigator.. a position long phased out by civilian operators after the arrival of reliable long range navaids.

ATB
DaveB:)

[roger-wilco-66]

Great video, thanks for sharing! I took the Fifi cockpit tour with Tom Stovall last week. Amazing aircraft.

Cheers,
Mark

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6376b3b4529vod8/IMG_20160801_031132.jpg?dl=1

[Ian Warren]

Right in there, Yeah ! simply a great photo, we would never see anything like this in New Zealand, Just dang handy to have you Mark and Tom to share these photo's around, It is an impressive machine ... Cheers guys :very_drunk:

[Bomber_12th]

Speaking of B-29's, a ton of really fascinating photos from the interior of the fantastically preserved/somewhat restored B-29 "Enola Gay" have been posted here today (all of the "Silverplate" mods indicated): http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43466&start=15

[Ian Warren]

Hells Bells , thanks for the link John, I've bookmarked it, a lot of those photos I have but the bulk I have not , thanks for that :encouragement:

[manfredc3]

Gman,

That was a great video. Thanks for providing the link.


And Bomber_12th

Great pics on the link you provided.

I had the pleasure of seeing "FiFi" in Broomfield a few years ago. That was an experience I will never forget.