Virtavia E-2C Released

[HvyEng]

Hello All,

Just a HU, it looks like the Virtavia E-2C Hawkeye has been released, but for FSX-SE only.

http://www.virtavia.com/gallery_E-2C.html
(http://www.virtavia.com/gallery_E-2C.html)
Its going to look great in some USN colors!

--Dan

[harrybasset]

Reading the blurb I'm not sure if it's a Steam exclusive or exclusive only until 5th July.

[Ferry_vO]

Reading the blurb I'm not sure if it's a Steam exclusive or exclusive only until 5th July.

Exclusive SE only and with a special offer until 4th of july I think.

[flaviossa]

No markings or insgnia at all with this release (Dovetail way of doing business). If the painters comunity do any paints for it, it might be a good addon.

[iflyfsx214]

I wonder if it will ever be availabe for fsx classic or p3d at anytime in the future

[Montie]

Got so excited until I saw "Available only via the Dovetail Games Steam Edition portal on Steam." (had my wallet ready).

[Bjoern]

I wonder if it will ever be availabe for fsx classic or p3d at anytime in the future

Virtavia has ported their entire range of old add-ons to Steam and that's probably the route they're going in the future.

[expat]

Well that is a problem. Am I the only one running FSX off the disk/hard drive?

[jmbiii]

Well that is a problem. Am I the only one running FSX off the disk/hard drive?

Nope, you're not the only one. I'm not even interested in going to steam.

[expat]

I just had a look at the web site and it all looks pretty amateurish, very vague on why it might be any better than the disk version, and seems just a way to take money from you for some mediocre looking add ons.

[harrybasset]

Nope, you're not the only one. I'm not even interested in going to steam.

I did try to get on Steam (Is that how to describe it?) It wouldn't download or whatever for me so I am strictly an FSX Acceleration user so no more Virtavia for me. Glad I got the Savage when I did. It seems an odd way to do business.

[Ferry_vO]

The Steam summer sale starts next week, probably a good opportunity to pick up FsX:SE for a few dollars.
There's not much difference between FsX and the SE, but it seems a bit smoother and more stable. And through Steam you can always download and reinstall the sim without having to use the old disks and MS activation system.

I like the looks of the E-2 and the price, but since I just bought a new car....

[Montie]

I have waited a long time for an E-2. I will be very disappointed if there is not a non-Steam version I can drop into P3D.

[Ferry_vO]

And as I type...... FsX:SE now 70% off at Steam until 23th June!

[Montie]

I guess one could transfer the files from the Steam folder to P3D.

[tgycgijoes]

I had a logon at Steam when I wanted to fly CoD and I personally don't like their way of doing things. I prefer having the disks or downloads on your own computer that you personally own. If Virtavia which I like personally as a company is going this direction when P3D seems like more of the way of the future, not FSXE or Dovetail Games, I will be really disappointed. Was waiting for Vertical Simulations to come out with their E2 and C2 which sadly never happened. I wonder if Virtavia bought up their work and finished it.

A couple years ago I had been working on a panel for the Alphasim E2 and C2 which are A versions with 4 bladed props but actually look as good or better IMHO with a lot of good paints for downloads. With the absolutely tremendous job on that DC3 panel done here can we talk the guys in Holland into doing the same quality for the E2 Hawkeye from Alphasim? Wow would that be one great FSX(A) and P3D2 compatible bird! My 2 cents on this.

[StormILM]

Well, as exciting as this news is, it's VERY disappointing that the model is only available for FSX-Steam. What about us users who prefer FSX-A over FSX-Steam? Unfortunately, this is a No Sale for me.

[stovall]

Well, as exciting as this news is, it's VERY disappointing that the model is only available for FSX-Steam. What about us users who prefer FSX-A over FSX-Steam? Unfortunately, this is a No Sale for me.

This comment is why I didn't jump on this right away to make it a sticky. Being a sticky anyway has served a purpose. Thanks

[StormILM]

To make things clear, there's no intent in my previous statement (or on my part) to stir any negativeness on the matter. From purely a consumer standpoint, our niche hobby and it's market as it has been for some time seems to shift and shrink pushing some long time users out of the market. I worry (respectfully) that some devs are becoming a bit too myopic on certain aspects of the market which IMO could only harm progress and maintaining a good level of a buyer/user base. Just a thought and maybe in this case something good will come of it to open up the model to us users who prefer a non-Steam platform (including FSX-A and P3D). If that happens, count me in on the purchase.

[Bjoern]

I guess one could transfer the files from the Steam folder to P3D.

Unless a sophisticated copy protection system is involved, this should be perfectly possible.

[Novawing24]

So none of you read either the Virtavia Website or the earlier posts in this thread?

It is a timed exclusive on Steam. It will be available through the usual channels for FSX Boxed (and assumingly P3D) on July 5.

Also that release will be the one which has the liveries in it.

And to answer the question about porting over from FSX:SE to P3D the answer is sadly no. Steam DRM encrypts the model files and prevents them from being used outside of FSX:SE.

Safe Skies

Novawing24

[DaveB]

Hmm.. exclusive for now maybe otherwise this point wouldn't have been added.. Accurately modelled and working catapult launch system (FSX Acceleration req'd).

Will it go FSX/ACC or is this a bit of poor editing by Virtavia?
ATB
DaveB:)

[Bjoern]

And to answer the question about porting over from FSX:SE to P3D the answer is sadly no. Steam DRM encrypts the model files and prevents them from being used outside of FSX:SE.

How's that supposed to work?
FSX can only deal with a single model file format.

[StormILM]

So none of you read either the Virtavia Website or the earlier posts in this thread?

It is a timed exclusive on Steam. It will be available through the usual channels for FSX Boxed (and assumingly P3D) on July 5.

Also that release will be the one which has the liveries in it.

Novawing24

What the site says is this: "Available NOW exclusively via the Dovetail Games FSX Steam Edtion portal, only $19.99 until July 5." I understand that as the model being available at the price of $19.95 until July 5th. Unless I completely missed it, there's nothing on the site that mentions the model being made available for FSX-A or P3D after that date. Maybe someone from Virtiavia will chime in and clarify their plans for this model?

[fsafranek]

I wonder if it will ever be availabe for fsx classic or p3d at anytime in the future
It will not be available to purchase outside of FSX-SE. It was made exclusively for DTG.

But, I did test it in FSX-Acceleration and P3Dv3 during development.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

So none of you read either the Virtavia Website or the earlier posts in this thread?

It is a timed exclusive on Steam. It will be available through the usual channels for FSX Boxed (and assumingly P3D) on July 5.

Also that release will be the one which has the liveries in it.

And to answer the question about porting over from FSX:SE to P3D the answer is sadly no. Steam DRM encrypts the model files and prevents them from being used outside of FSX:SE.

Safe Skies

Novawing24
What are you smoking because I want some. Let's go down the list.

1) Sale price ends on July 4th. No change after that -- it was made exclusively for DTG and will remain that way.

2) Don't know what liveries you are talking about. We did two with no markings. None to follow unless folks who buy it want to make some.

3) See my post above about using it in boxed FSX and P3D. I tested it during development and it works in both.

4) There is no Steam DRM. You simply copy the aircraft folder and a couple effects files over. Done.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

Virtavia has ported their entire range of old add-ons to Steam and that's probably the route they're going in the future.
Entire range? Not hardly. Anyway, it is just another market. All products are still sold as they always have been and will continue to be.

To you second point, not at all. This is so far a one-off opportunity to make something exclusively for DTG.
Many developers have been contracted to make exclusive content for Dovetail Games and not stopped making products for boxed FSX or P3D.

We've already started on the next product and it is not for DTG. You will no doubt be able to buy it from them but also everywhere else.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

I wonder if Virtavia bought up their work and finished it.
No. We didn't.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

Hmm.. exclusive for now maybe otherwise this point wouldn't have been added.. Accurately modelled and working catapult launch system (FSX Acceleration req'd).

Will it go FSX/ACC or is this a bit of poor editing by Virtavia?
ATB
DaveB:)
That's the fault of DTG's marketing copywriters who think they know how to drum up business but have no sense of what people are really interested in. Virtavia didn't write any of the tripe.
The "exclusive" bit is the fact that it will always by a DTG exclusive product.

Believe me when I say that both Mal998 and myself were both very conflicted during development knowing how this one was going to go down in the end -- exclusively through DTG and all that that means.

FSX-SE is on sale at the moment for $10 I think. Maybe even less during the sale starting next week. I know everyone likes having physical CDs that they can hold in their hands but let Steam store it for you -- they have continued to fix things in the sim we all play that Microsoft abandoned nearly a decade ago. And granted this one aircraft isn't the only reason to get the Steam version but there are and will be others from other developers available only via Steam going forward.

Please read all of my comments above. Sorry I got here late to answer some questions.
:ernaehrung004:

[StormILM]

It will not be available to purchase outside of FSX-SE. It was made exclusively for DTG.


Well, that settles that. I'm going on record as noting that this was a very bad move which has shut us FSX-A/P3D users out of the market to buy the model (one which many of us have been waiting a long time for). Okay, I'm moving on beyond this matter & thread now and will await a quality E-2 from another vendor (if that ever comes to pass). I wish you guys luck with this and other models in the future.

[Novawing24]

What are you smoking because I want some. Let's go down the list.

1) Sale price ends on July 4th. No change after that -- it was made exclusively for DTG and will remain that way.

2) Don't know what liveries you are talking about. We did two with no markings. None to follow unless folks who buy it want to make some.

3) See my post above about using it in boxed FSX and P3D. I tested it during development and it works in both.

4) There is no Steam DRM. You simply copy the aircraft folder and a couple effects files over. Done.
:ernaehrung004:

Thanks for the official response, allow me to elaborate my initial post.

1) That was an interpretation that can be placed on the notice on your website as the notice was vague and other vendors have in the past released as a timed exclusive for FSX:SE.

2) Other vendors such as Carenado and Aerosoft have made options for other colourschemes available either as a non-FSXSE edition release or as a free update upon request

3 & 4) Great to know you have tested it in P3D / Boxed. However other aircraft / scenery sold via FSX:SE are encrypted with DRM which makes them unusable in other platforms (Uhu, A2A Shockwave lights, Piper Cub, Aerosoft F-16, Manhattan, Kilaminjaro just to name a few) so again a logical assumption. If I am proved incorrect (and I truly hope I am) then no problems, however that would mark it as a rare exception in the FSX:SE library of addons.

Novawing24

*edit: just received an email from the team re-confirming it is an FSX:SE exclusive permanently.*

[Cees Donker]

Nowadays I have two FSX installs: the boxed version and the Steam version. I fly the Steam version almost all of the time. It looks better, has better frs and has better autogen. No wonder: DTG has upgraded the sim a bit. I bought it for five dollars in a sale. Never regretted that!

I couldn't resist buying this latest offering from DTG/Virtavia as I flew CLP almost exclusively the past year. After all: the Virtavia Savage was and is still present in my hangar and is still flown regularly. And now the Hawkeye: I'm very pleased with this girl so far. Great on the framerates and it has a good looking 'office'.

I havn't tested the systems yet.

:wavey:

Cees

Now where's that paintkit? :biggrin-new:

[DaveB]

Thanks for dotting the I's and crossing the T's Frank:encouragement:

ATB
DaveB:)

[harrybasset]

Well, that settles that. I'm going on record as noting that this was a very bad move which has shut us FSX-A/P3D users out of the market to buy the model (one which many of us have been waiting a long time for). Okay, I'm moving on beyond this matter & thread now and will await a quality E-2 from another vendor (if that ever comes to pass). I wish you guys luck with this and other models in the future.

I agree, it seems like a not very good idea to exclude customers or deny them a choice.

[airattackimages]

A pretty stupid business decision to automatically disqualify 50% of your potential audience...

[b52bob]

Look guys, let's face reality. FSX on steam is the way to go. For a lousy ten bucks you can have a version of FSX that runs smoothly, is better looking, doesn't crash and is always there if you need to reinstall. No more going through that MS bull trying to get it re-registered. I have both boxed and steam edition on my rig and I haven't opened the boxed in months.

i do wish there was a way to buy it for P3D.

[iflyfsx214]

So none of you read either the Virtavia Website or the earlier posts in this thread?

It is a timed exclusive on Steam. It will be available through the usual channels for FSX Boxed (and assumingly P3D) on July 5.

Also that release will be the one which has the liveries in it.

And to answer the question about porting over from FSX:SE to P3D the answer is sadly no. Steam DRM encrypts the model files and prevents them from being used outside of FSX:SE.

Safe Skies

Novawing24

Novawing24 can we expect a review video on it anytime soon?

[fsafranek]

Look guys, let's face reality. FSX on steam is the way to go. For a lousy ten bucks you can have a version of FSX that runs smoothly, is better looking, doesn't crash and is always there if you need to reinstall. No more going through that MS bull trying to get it re-registered. I have both boxed and steam edition on my rig and I haven't opened the boxed in months.

i do wish there was a way to buy it for P3D.
No even $10 at the moment. $7.49. That's a meal at a fast food place for a refreshed version of FSX.

Anyway, good traps.

[Daveroo]

if i didn't already own it,id.....................................buy FSX-SE......seems pretty simple in my lil noggin...buy it while its now at $7 something,then in future id have it and wouldn't comment about how unfair it all is ,but thats just me.....:biggrin-new:

[Wingmate]

Are the textures set up to allow some of the more fancy looking E-2 paints? i.e. top of the Radome non mirrored fuselage?

I will definitely be picking this up when I have the money.

[ejoiner]

Nope, you're not the only one. I'm not even interested in going to steam.

I have an extensive FSX install on my HD and am now almost all converted to P3D. Steam isnt even on the radar.

Too bad. this is a nice bird and I like Virtavia stuff. Not too complex, but fun to fly.

[fsafranek]

Are the textures set up to allow some of the more fancy looking E-2 paints? i.e. top of the Radome non mirrored fuselage?

I will definitely be picking this up when I have the money.

You never know about textures being able to handle the more complex schemes until you try it.
DTG didn't even want "NAVY" or stars-n-bars.

This one has no mirroring. It is very traditional so should pose no issues. Based on the panel
line layers of the paint kit there is no weird bending going on. Very straight forward.
:ernaehrung004:

[Bjoern]

Entire range? Not hardly.

I've seen about a dozen models while skimming through the Steam store, so I assumed that you guys went all out.


Anyway, let's see how this all turns out.
FSXSE was a godsend for me. No more dealing with the stupid activation at MS' telephone hotlines. And since I use Steam for other sims and games anyway, I'm already used to having to start applications from the client.

[Corvette99]

So is anyone working on some repaints yet ?

[fsafranek]

OK, so my apologies to all. Apparently DTG did put in some sort of encryption so that it will only work on their Steam version of FSX.
I really thought that since the beta copy worked in all that the final release would as well. I'll go back to the paint booth now.
:ernaehrung004:

[StormILM]

Okay, so I jumped through the hoops and got FSX Steam and the E-2 to the tune of a total of $27 and some change. As I already suspected, my well tuned FSXA setup runs as good or better than the Steam version even after I got everything set up. From various accounts (from different users), that is precisely why I had no desire to fix what was already running perfectly on my system. To be clear, I do no desire moving everything I have in FSXA to FSX Steam just to get use of one model. It was only $7.49 so it's not a big deal but with the E-2 on the other hand, I found an obvious bug with it immediately, the aileron animations are backwards. How in the world did this get missed in alpha and beta testing? The lack of markings and more detail/tuning on the textures seriously degrades the model. The sound set is way off the mark which at the current level of capability that exists in the FSX/P3D community, that is a glaring omission that should have been worked on with greater detail. Last but not least, one of the above posters noted that DTG/Steam DRM won't allow the model to be cross-transferred/copied over to FSX-A or P3D. He was correct on that as I tried the model in FSXA and the model will not display. So in general, I just wasted $19.99 (plus $7.49) on a model I will never get use of. If I could get a refund, I would but I'm not going to worry with it.

Virtavia, owning models you guys have turned out over the years including current ones, this model IMO is clearly a step backwards, it is more or less incomplete. I understand that the markings issue(and perhaps other issues) was not your call but I fall back to the original business decision in how this model was marketed. This BTW is not a personal attack on you guys, I am being critical (objectively) for good reason so hopefully decisions can and will be made that will help to better suit the user base and perhaps get you guys to examine the final processes of turning out models (bug fixing, enhancement of various details, etc).

All of this is also making me have second thoughts about investing into DTG's future sim which makes me more inclined to now lean towards P3Dv3 or wait for the 64but version of it. Besides, I am becoming more deeply involved in DCS now in terms of high performance military type models.

[flaviossa]

Hi! In fact you can get a refund for all itens you buy in Steam. Here is a step by step if you want to go that path: (Easy and painless)
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

I only bought one model thru Steam some time ago, the Aerosoft f16. And i regret doing that because i got only the model without any markings. No more addons thru Steam from me.:encouragement:

[manfredc3]

Not too impressed with the textures shown in the screenshots.

Supposed to be HD, but not really believing that based on the pics provided on the Virtavia website.

[StormILM]

Hi! In fact you can get a refund for all itens you buy in Steam. Here is a step by step if you want to go that path: (Easy and painless)
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

I only bought one model thru Steam some time ago, the Aerosoft f16. And i regret doing that because i got only the model without any markings. No more addons thru Steam from me.:encouragement:


Thanks for the help flaviossa, I submitted a refund request and had already deleted all the content from my system. Prior to this I have only requested one refund for an FSX product in all the years I have used Microsoft Flight Simulator and in that case, the model simply would not work.

I digress, perhaps I have come off as a bit too disappointed on how things turned out on this model and if I ruffled any feathers, it was not my intent and I leave it with my apology.

[Cees Donker]

I have an issue that makes the model almost unflyable. I experienced this before, but certainly not this exrtreme. Changing views I get this in the VC for 53 seconds! :dizzy::gameoff:I like to to fly, I'm not in for Russian roulette! :biggrin-new: Furthermore: my saitek system is not working with this one. That means I have to mouse control all switches, but I can live with that.

:untroubled:

Cees

Edit: I asked for a refund.........

[expat]

It's not the additional money outlay, it's the time involved that makes this development such a turn off. Having to move everything - add on scenery (FTX Global/Vector?), simobjects, AI set ups, etc etc - I just don't have the time to do that for more or less a sim that's the same as what I already have. Fragmenting/segmenting FSX add ons - making them "exclusive" - so they are not universally useable in the traditional cd version (and Prep3D) is NOT the way to go.

[TARPSBird]

I purchased the E-2C after reading the first few posts in this thread. First off... I'm a bit puzzled as to why DTG specified a "bare naked" paint job with no markings but I'm sure that will be fixed in the next few days after some of you artists get your paint brushes out. The ailerons are animated opposite from the control input, I like to think that will be fixed with an updated .mdl file. That just leaves me with one question: Does the radome rotate??? Even the Abacus E-2C's radome rotates and that's a nice realism feature, especially for squadrons like the "Screwtops" of VAW-123 with their distinctive spiral radome paint job.

[Randy92]

Look for "Groom Lake Simulations" on Facebook. These guys are already working on at least one US navy repaint.

And while you are there, check for their other repaints in their Photo album. Look for the Album called "Download". You can find some surprises in there.

Cheers,
Randy

[Cees Donker]

I have an issue that makes the model almost unflyable. I experienced this before, but certainly not this exrtreme. Changing views I get this in the VC for 53 seconds! :dizzy::gameoff:I like to to fly, I'm not in for Russian roulette! :biggrin-new: Furthermore: my saitek system is not working with this one. That means I have to mouse control all switches, but I can live with that.

:untroubled:

Cees

Edit: I asked for a refund.........

But I didn't get it!
Beware: this is a framerate hog! Unplayable. Not worth your money.

[simulloyd]

I am surprised that something like this was done. I have a lot of products from Virtavia. At best they are always lite and simple on systems. This is okay because not every Flight Simmer has a desire for study-sim aircraft. However, Virtavia didn't just show up in 2016 producing junk so I wonder what changed. I watched preview of X-Plane 11 and believe my worries of FSX performance will start to become a thing of the past.

[StormILM]

But I didn't get it!


Are you saying you did not get your refund yet? I received notice that they received my request but they have not sent any new notification yet regarding the refund. I assume they will process the request at the beginning of the week and then advise me by email.

[Cees Donker]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

[StormILM]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

So far they have not given me an answer. I used both the sim and model less than five minutes. If I were you, I would make a dispute on the purchase with your credit card bank (or whichever method you used). If they refuse me a refund, that is exactly what I am going to do as the software is flawed and unusable.

[jeansy]

No, they refused. On the ground that I used it for more than two hours. Playing in the sim, wether it's with that plane or another, with the Dovetail plane on your account, counts as used time.

Cees

Well that seals it for me, at least with most traditional sellers they can offer up to 30 days post purchase for a refund,

Im just sticking with P3D, as steam and DTG can go ....................

[bazzar]

One thing I do not and never will, understand is why people get so hot under the collar over what is somebody else's private business decision. If a game maker bought the exclusive rights for this product say for $500,000 would that be a "bad"move? For heaven's sake people just chill. If you don't want to play the game on Steam, fine, don't.

The crap we received from people over the Aztec was to be seen to be believed. The dust settled and all is now normal again. Apparently we were going to go out of business - "a suicidal business decision" was one comment.We actually increased our brand-awareness by a considerable margin.:biggrin-new:

As far as I understand from our experience, licensing will be the reason for not having liveries. The bigger you get as a business the larger a target you become for litigious lawyers holed up in corporate towers. That includes the armed forces. Trust me, we know.:engel016:

[StormILM]

One thing I do not and never will, understand is why people get so hot under the collar over what is somebody else's private business decision. If a game maker bought the exclusive rights for this product say for $500,000 would that be a "bad"move? For heaven's sake people just chill. If you don't want to play the game on Steam, fine, don't.

The crap we received from people over the Aztec was to be seen to be believed. The dust settled and all is now normal again. Apparently we were going to go out of business - "a suicidal business decision" was one comment.We actually increased our brand-awareness by a considerable margin.:biggrin-new:

As far as I understand from our experience, licensing will be the reason for not having liveries. The bigger you get as a business the larger a target you become for litigious lawyers holed up in corporate towers. That includes the armed forces. Trust me, we know.:engel016:

You're right, I admit I felt and still to some degree feel stumped over the decision made on this model but it is what it is, their decision and cooler heads will prevail, life will move on in this hobby. There's plenty of new content coming out over more than one sim platform to keep a wide variety of user tastes happy for the foreseeable future. We have a lot of options on what to buy or not buy.

[Daube]

This "Steam Exclusive" thing sounds like complete trash to me.
If they want it to be sold on Steam only, then fine, I can understand that, no problems.
But that DRM crap preventing to transfer the model on other sims is completely stupid. Saying "not supported on P3D or FSX-A, only supported on FSX Steam" would have been sufficient, and us simmers would have been able to use it on the other sims (without being able to complain in case of bugs, because not supported).
DRM sucks. Especially in the FS world.

[tommieboy]

DRM in FSX Steam.......I'll pass on that. I guess I'll run my boxed FSX until my next HD crash (prabably this year) and call it a day. I picked up a used Samsung tablet in anticipation of the demise of my tower unit......:biggrin-new:

Tommy

[StormILM]

They gave me refunds on both FSX-S and the E-2 but after going through this, I am leery about going this route again (DTG & Steam).

[TARPSBird]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

[pilto von pilto]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

:engel016:

[glh]

Reading this thread just reconfirms my policy to never be first or even tenth to buy an add-on and peruse the user reviews.

[mal998]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

[Willy]

Interesting stuff here as I've been flying FSX-SE for over a year now with few to no issues. Then again, I don't got through Steam to get my add ons either. My take on those has been, nice enough price, but you don't get much for it either.

It wasn't until I got this comp that I had something that would run FSX. And then I couldn't find a new boxed set of any of the later versions that wasn't way overpriced. So, I went with SE and haven't regretted that purchase at all. Like I said, runs fine and the only issues have been from something that I've done.

[Corvette99]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

How will the fix file be distributed ?

[Mickey D]

It will update automatically when you log on to Steam. At least that's how TS2016 updates.

[mal998]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

[Corvette99]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

Thanks for your work . Hope they act in a timely manner .

[flaviossa]

DTG is know about their lazyness in releasing SP for their product line. Look what is happening with another product "Feelthere Tower!3D Steam Version" witch is released under DTG care. The fix is on their hands more than 10 days by now (Following what is said by the developer), and nothing is released to the public. Expect some waiting time ...

[airattackimages]

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

:engel016:
That's a silly answer. If a product isn't up to snuff, that isn't "buyers remorse". We aren't given any insight in how flawed a flight simulator addon is before buying. Hell, if I had to buy a brand new $55,000 Corvette without the benefit of a test drive and it turns out the wheels steered in the opposite direction -- you wouldn't catch me feeling bad for how many hours the engineers in Michigan spent on it.

Also, Groom Lake Simulations has discovered that the textures are mirrored, making US Navy textures next to impossible.

And as for the "why don't you just shut up and get FSX SE" sentiment some are voicing, there are a couple reasons. One, I have boxed, and no reason to buy the same simulation in a different format. Two, as someone that used Steam in the past, I'm not a fan of giving a third party entity full time access to my computer through a connection that is always open, sending and receiving information. Cyber threats are constantly taking down corporations that are far more secure and protected than Steam.

[StormILM]

I agree with the above sentiments and generally feel this is a closed case. I want to go on record as saying, obviously this model hasn't gone the way us users nor the original developer would have liked. Our disappointment is mutual, not apart. I still enjoy flying my AJ Savage frequently as it is a unique and satisfying model to use in the sim. Hopefully we'll be seeing the next model before long and enjoy it as well.

[pilto von pilto]

That's a silly answer. If a product isn't up to snuff, that isn't "buyers remorse". We aren't given any insight in how flawed a flight simulator addon is before buying. Hell, if I had to buy a brand new $55,000 Corvette without the benefit of a test drive and it turns out the wheels steered in the opposite direction -- you wouldn't catch me feeling bad for how many hours the engineers in Michigan spent on it.

Also, Groom Lake Simulations has discovered that the textures are mirrored, making US Navy textures next to impossible.

And as for the "why don't you just shut up and get FSX SE" sentiment some are voicing, there are a couple reasons. One, I have boxed, and no reason to buy the same simulation in a different format. Two, as someone that used Steam in the past, I'm not a fan of giving a third party entity full time access to my computer through a connection that is always open, sending and receiving information. Cyber threats are constantly taking down corporations that are far more secure and protected than Steam.


See ? Misconstrued.

I said "Buyers remorse " is not a reason for a refund. So I'll use your car analogy if I may. Lets take the 55,000 corvette. You take it out , it works as described. The grin on your face is so wide you could audition for Joker. EVerything is perfect. You buy the car. Then 2 days or even a week later you have buyers remorse and want a refund. There isnt anything wrong with the car. The engineers in michigan did their jobs admirably. But for whatever reason you now feel that it was a purchase that you shouldnt have ( not got permission, or a stretch on funds, the honeymoon period is over ) made. This is not the fault of the car manufacturer. It isnt the fault of chevrolet. It is not a reason for a refund.

That said there are valid reasons for a refund. So point form again.

1. I said buyers remorse is not a reason for a refund.
2. I offered no opinion on what should constitute a refund.

Lastly.
Quite willing to accept that buyers remorse means something different in america or the rest of the world. Here in aus it means the person is having second thoughts AFTER buying the product.

[TARPSBird]

My choice of words in my refund post has kicked up the conversation here a bit. :mixed-smiley-010:
I used the term "buyer's remorse" to simply mean I regretted buying the plane. Specifically, my regrets were that the ailerons were reversed and the radome didn't rotate. I was originally willing to live with both of those shortfalls, then I reconsidered. My purchase was within Steam's parameters for granting a refund so I requested one and it was approved. Nothing against DTG, except I think the aileron glitch should have been caught and (just my opinion) the revolving radome is an essential animation feature on a E-2C that should have been included. Had they disapproved my refund I would have sucked it up, flown the plane, and hoped for an update that at least fixed the ailerons, and maybe some third-party USN paint jobs. For now I'll use Milton's E-1B "Willy Fudd" for my AEW support.

[jeansy]

My choice of words in my refund post has kicked up the conversation here a bit. :mixed-smiley-010:
I used the term "buyer's remorse" to simply mean I regretted buying the plane. Specifically, my regrets were that the ailerons were reversed and the radome didn't rotate. I was originally willing to live with both of those shortfalls, then I reconsidered. My purchase was within Steam's parameters for granting a refund so I requested one and it was approved. Nothing against DTG, except I think the aileron glitch should have been caught and (just my opinion) the revolving radome is an essential animation feature on a E-2C that should have been included. Had they disapproved my refund I would have sucked it up, flown the plane, and hoped for an update that at least fixed the ailerons, and maybe some third-party USN paint jobs. For now I'll use Milton's E-1B "Willy Fudd" for my AEW support.

"buyers remorse" can mean anything you want it to be. dont feel bad that you might of hurt someones feelings, its your money and your expectations.

[airattackimages]

I said "Buyers remorse " is not a reason for a refund. So I'll use your car analogy if I may. Lets take the 55,000 corvette. You take it out , it works as described. The grin on your face is so wide you could audition for Joker. EVerything is perfect. You buy the car. Then 2 days or even a week later you have buyers remorse and want a refund.not a reason for a refund.
Too bad that's not what's happening.

[StormILM]

Admins, not sure how you guys feel about it but it might be safe to assume that this thread has run it's course (just so things don't spiral further downward).

[flaviossa]

I hope you don´t mind if i disagree with you StormILM. No need to close it i think, if people refrain from give opinion on Virtavia´s business (myself included) and start to talk about the plane itself. I saw pretty good information about who´s doing paints for it already, it´s flaws, corrections on the way, etc. I may go for it if some corrections described on the topic surface in the future http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/smilies/encouragement.png

[Novawing24]

It seems that Repaints may be an issue.

Groom Lake Sims have declared they are closing their production line of repaints following the discovery of mirroring used on the Vertical stabilizers.

Sad news indeed.

There goes all the CAG birds I was planning.....

[StormILM]

There's light at the end of the tunnel afterall. I saw where Dino posted that he is going ahead with both an E-2C and C-2A and aiming for a 2017 release! I will gladly buy both models when the time comes.

[fsafranek]

It seems that Repaints may be an issue.

Groom Lake Sims have declared they are closing their production line of repaints following the discovery of mirroring used on the Vertical stabilizers.

Sad news indeed.

There goes all the CAG birds I was planning.....
The vertical fins themselves were not mirrored. They were reversed on the starboard sides which is an inconvenience but is not the end of the world and certainly would not put a stop to repaints. The issue was that one texture for the back half of the fin, the moving split rudder, had been reused for all four surfaces. This worked perfectly for the customer's requirements, and anyone who just wanted to fly it as is, but not so much for us repainters. Anything that takes up half the surface us going to have some unusual markings in it so that had to be fixed if any repaints were going to happen.

A couple fellow simmers on FB pointed this out to me and I forwarded their example images to Phil. Based on the new MDL file I checked out last night that has issue has been corrected. There was enough room on the texture to add in three more rudder sections.

My understanding is that all of the files have been sent to DTG so it is on their timeline now for pushing down the updates.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

Admins, not sure how you guys feel about it but it might be safe to assume that this thread has run it's course (just so things don't spiral further downward).
Hardly. We're just getting started. You chose to bug out too soon. Please don't ruin it for the rest of everyone else. Things are getting fixed through this discussion. No spiral downward. I'm trying to bring positive reports with each post. Let it run the normal 10 days please.
:ernaehrung004:

[Novawing24]

The vertical fins themselves were not mirrored. They were reversed on the starboard sides which is an inconvenience but is not the end of the world and certainly would not put a stop to repaints. The issue was that one texture for the back half of the fin, the moving split rudder, had been reused for all four surfaces. This worked perfectly for the customer's requirements, and anyone who just wanted to fly it as is, but not so much for us repainters. Anything that takes up half the surface us going to have some unusual markings in it so that had to be fixed if any repaints were going to happen.

A couple fellow simmers on FB pointed this out to me and I forwarded their example images to Phil. Based on the new MDL file I checked out last night that has issue has been corrected. There was enough room on the texture to add in three more rudder sections.

My understanding is that all of the files have been sent to DTG so it is on their timeline now for pushing down the updates.
:ernaehrung004:

You have no idea how excited and happy I am to hear that!

:applause:

[flaviossa]

That´s good news endeed :encouragement:

[Corvette99]

Hardly. We're just getting started. You chose to bug out too soon. Please don't ruin it for the rest of everyone else. Things are getting fixed through this discussion. No spiral downward. I'm trying to bring positive reports with each post. Let it run the normal 10 days please.
:ernaehrung004:

Frank and crew to the rescue ! This bird has potential , just hold on people !

[Aharon]

If Virtavia E-2C is avaliable in Israeli air force livery for FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2, then Virtavia can count on me as SECOND TIME customer as long as it is on sale. Bought their C-17 Globemaster last year or 2 years ago and it is AWESOME!

Regards,

Aharon

[fsafranek]

If Virtavia E-2C is avaliable in Israeli air force livery for FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2, then Virtavia can count on me as SECOND TIME customer as long as it is on sale. Bought their C-17 Globemaster last year or 2 years ago and it is AWESOME!

Regards,

Aharon
I'm waiting for Phil to get the go-ahead from DTG before he sends me the texture masters. My part of the textures are finished, just waiting for the panel line and stencil layers. The Israel Air Force E-2C were painted in the two grays the F-15s were painted in so not just a matter of painting on the Star of David insignia.

Something you should realize thought, this model only works in the FSX-SE version from Dovetail Games via Steam. On sale now by the way.
:ernaehrung004:

[edakridge]

As a long time customer of Alphasim and then Virtavia, I hate to see us FSX "Original" customers shut out. I for one do not care for how Steam does business. I will be with FSX/Acceleration until it runs it's course and then migrate to P3D. I am NOT knocking anyone or their preferences, simply stating my opinion.

[Aharon]

Frank,

Thanks for answers and for painting Israeli air force livery. I am hoping that Virtavia will release this model for FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2 use.

Very kind and awesome of you to paint Israeli air force livery for that plane!

Since I notice you are official Virtavia livery painter staff member, I am wondering if you do fictional repaints. I always want Israeli air force livery on Virtavia C-17 Globemaster.

Regards,

Aharon

[fsafranek]

Frank,

Thanks for answers and for painting Israeli air force livery. I am hoping that Virtavia will release this model for FSX Deluxe with SP1 and SP2 use.

Very kind and awesome of you to paint Israeli air force livery for that plane!

Since I notice you are official Virtavia livery painter staff member, I am wondering if you do fictional repaints. I always want Israeli air force livery on Virtavia C-17 Globemaster.

Regards,

Aharon
If you read this entire thread and you will see that this E-2C does not belong to Virtavia, it belongs Dovetail Games on Steam.
And as such it has been encrypted to only work on their version of FSX and not the old boxed FSX or P3D. Again, ... sorry.
And sorry again, I don't paint fiction (unless it's a Mirage).
:ernaehrung004:

[Aharon]

Oh I see Thanks for clarification and explanations. Did not realize that E-2C is exclusive property of Dovetail company.

Thanks again,

Aharon

[heywooood]

Mods and Developers - Since there are going to be DTG only Steam addons, would it make sense to either, make a dedicated stickie thread for those addons - or - ask that they be placed in the DTG FSX Steam forum (is there one?)

Seems to me we could avoid some frustration or extra distraction in this forum if some steps were taken on this.

[flaviossa]

The update is released: https://fsxinsider.com/e-2c-hawkeye-v2-out-now/

[Montie]

Just to be sure, it's not portable to P3D?

[Cees Donker]

Just to be sure, it's not portable to P3D?

No, It's not!

:wavey:

Cees

[Roger]

Mods and Developers - Since there are going to be DTG only Steam addons, would it make sense to either, make a dedicated stickie thread for those addons - or - ask that they be placed in the DTG FSX Steam forum (is there one?)

Seems to me we could avoid some frustration or extra distraction in this forum if some steps were taken on this.

I understand your concern Heywooood but we seem to be growing FsX related forums:dizzy: I would however like posters of new releases to check whether they are Dovetail exclusive and post as such so we FsXA users don't waste our time!

[DaveWG]

I would assume if it's encrypted for Steam only, then it can't be opened & viewed in MCX?

[Ferry_vO]

Seems an update was released:


An update for Virtavia’s Grumman E-2C Hawkeye is out now. If you have automatic Steam updates enabled, this update will be downloaded next time you restart the Steam client.

The change list for E-2C Hawkeye v2 is as follows:

Fixed aileron animation which was previously reversed
Added a rotodome animation which can be toggled from the virtual cockpit
Updated manual to reflect the above changes
Improved glass reflectivity
This update is approx. 6 MB

[fsafranek]

I would assume if it's encrypted for Steam only, then it can't be opened & viewed in MCX?
That is correct as reported earlier.
:ernaehrung004:

[fsafranek]

The update is released: https://fsxinsider.com/e-2c-hawkeye-v2-out-now/
I see that DTG has pushed the E-2C update. Everything on the E-2C should work now. All they wanted was the ailerons corrected. Everything else was a bonus to them.

Not mentioned because we didn't mention it to them (since they aren't keen on schemes for their released versions) is the remapped rudders.
:ernaehrung004:

[Corvette99]

this one dropped off the radar quick . No paints , no more talk , nothing ! huh !

[mal998]

Looks like this one got gobbled up by the "machine". If it was up to me (and it wasn't) the Hawkeye would have been released to the general public. Alas....

[fsafranek]

Phil did finally release a paint kit. It is available on the Virtavia page. I've been playing with it a little.

41830

41831

41832

41833

41834

41835

Still have VAW-123 Screwtops to finish up. And then sort out the DLC install particulars.

:ernaehrung004:

[mal998]

Nice work Frank! Might prompt me to re-visit that FDE.

[Corvette99]

Very nice Frank !

[mcanx]

Outstanding Sir! Your skins will absolutely perk this bird up. Waiting for your release. Thank You

[fsafranek]

First six are available here: http://www.mirage4fs.com/Alphasim/index.html#E-2C

Couple more to come.

:ernaehrung004:

[CG_1976]

First six are available here: http://www.mirage4fs.com/Alphasim/index.html#E-2C

Couple more to come.

:ernaehrung004:

When I See and sniff out a USCG Scheme, I must go make a purchase. Darn USCG/RCAF 440Sq Addiction lol.

[Navy Chief]

I am waiting for the Christmas sale on Steam. To me, it isn't worth $25.... NC

[fsafranek]

I am waiting for the Christmas sale on Steam. To me, it isn't worth $25.... NC
I agree. I only buy during sales. But at a discount it is worth getting especially since the patch.
:ernaehrung004:

[Navy Chief]

I agree. I only buy during sales. But at a discount it is worth getting especially since the patch.
:ernaehrung004:

Most definitely. :encouragement: NC

[Cees Donker]

First six are available here: http://www.mirage4fs.com/Alphasim/index.html#E-2C

Couple more to come.

:ernaehrung004:

Thanks Frank, that's a big improvement.

:wavey:

Cees

[fsafranek]

Here's another one if anyone is interested -- VAW-123 'Screwtops' off the Big-E.

42420

Available with the others here: http://www.mirage4fs.com/Alphasim/index.html#E-2C
:ernaehrung004:

[Cees Donker]

I get a 'file not found' message clicking the link on the site Frank.

:wavey:

Cees

[fsafranek]

Sorry, a typo in the link. Should work for you now. Enjoy!
:ernaehrung004:

[Ripcord]

There's light at the end of the tunnel afterall. I saw where Dino posted that he is going ahead with both an E-2C and C-2A and aiming for a 2017 release! I will gladly buy both models when the time comes.

This is the best news I have seen all day. Outstanding!!

[simulloyd]

This is the best news I have seen all day. Outstanding!!

Yes! I would pay 2X if Dino does these for FSX and P3D non-Steam.

[strikehawk]

Here's another one if anyone is interested -- VAW-123 'Screwtops' off the Big-E.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42420&stc=1

Available with the others here: http://www.mirage4fs.com/Alphasim/index.html#E-2C
:ernaehrung004:

Could you do a VAW-123 paint from the 1980 Saratoga Med cruise? Sorry but fueling those beasts for that whole summer with the showing AC USS SARATOGA is burned into my memory.